Basejumper.com - archive

For all of you who have been asking me to post some pictures of the Super Mushroom, it is done. You can find it in the Library section of my website.

JohnnyUtah.com

Enjoy!

Finally! Thanks for that Johnny!

The Site looks Great Johnny...
TR

Ostankino is A or B?

I've tried to go through this in my head several times, but if I'm not mistaken, can't one arrive at the same packjob without the need for a flat surface? I guess an over-the-hand type super mushroom as opposed to a flat packed super mushroom?

1) Hold the PC by the attachment point with right hand and fluff by pulling it to inflate and then allowing it to come to rest in an inverted position.
2) While still holding attachment pt in right hand, run loosely-gripped left hand from attachment pt down to skirt/topskin seamline (making sure skirtfabric and mesh is evenly distributed around the PDA line). Maintain grip there with left hand. (At this point all of skirt/topskin seamline is drawn into center region of PC - this gets you to step 18 of johnny's pics (smpicture18.jpg))
3) let go of attchment pt with right hand while still holding skirtseam with left. Reach around to topskin apex, grip and pull the centercap and PDA line all the way out (this causes attachment point and associated mesh fabric to be pulled up into the center of the skirt fabric/topskin fabric in the same plane (work attachment point into exact center with evenly-distributed mesh/topskin skirt fabric). When you flip it over (topskin on top), the thing resembles a mushroom for sure; mesh being the stem, topskin being the cap.
4)Stuff a little mesh - with left-hand still maintaining grip on skirt/mesh seamline - up into the cap to form johnny's "nug". Grip the "nug" with right hand from topskin side.
5) Maintaining "nug" grip with right hand, now release left hand and flip over and flake out both topskin and mesh evenly so you can see where the bridle enters the "nug".
6) while still maintaining right hand grip on "nug," S-fold the bridle into the "nug" at the attachment pt, sticking the ends of one side of the s-folds into the "nug" and running the other ends of the s-folds down to within ~ 1" of the bottom of the remaining flaked skirt (in essense it's the same as what johnny has done). The s-folding is done with the left hand while gripping each subsequent s-fold inside the "nug" with the right hand.
7) with the bridle s-folded, encapsulate the bridle within the mesh, followed by encapsulation with the topskin fabric.
8) Insert this package into the BOC pouch, dressing as necessary.

Geometrically speaking, I cannot visualize a difference in outcome from this way versus Johnny's way. I did note that he made no mention of the PDA line.

Is it ultimately the same? Agree or disagree?

*Do not use anything other than your hands to control fabric while packing the PC; use of a packing aid and subsequent failure to remove said packing aid will ruin your day.

Gardner

 

Tree did you check out Johnny's super mushroom technique on the link he posted above?? Click super mushroom

My response was regarding that technique. Your technique is the standard pc packjob - not the one we're talking about above.

Just clarifying ;)

Gardner

edit to say: The question I had is whether folks see any difference in the outcome of my way versus his way. (Pack it each way - look at the results - see if anything is different) My description of my technique seems rather long, but it only takes a minute to perform - perhaps less.

Hmmm...
I can't help wondering if the disposition of the center line might be worth considering.
Certainly in Gardner's method, it winds up in the topskin part of the mushroom. It seems to me that In Johnny's method, too, gravity will tend to put most of it in the same area, assuming you don't happen to scoop it up at some point.
Is this a good place to put it? When I, with my hand holding the gathered-up perimeter, flip the thing over, what's to prevent loops of the center line settling into, say, a clove hitch around the nug?

 

Why doesn't someone just test the various PC packing methods and analyze with video? Extract PC's from a moving vehicle and film their opening characteristics. Especially when you're dealing with something that you can't clearly see as it comes off your back.

Just a thought.

we might dont like to see the resultshe he

good idea anyway..

Johnny showed me this techniquein Moab last year and I still use it. I had trouble from day 1 with the folds so I modified the technique to do what you described in steps 1 & 2. I then lay the ripstop on the ground and dress the mesh to get the same result as Johnny's.

I do like your suggestion to pull out on the ripstop to extend the centerline. I'll play around with that tonight.

Dwain and I did this kind of half heartedly (we were on wind hold) about two years ago, with standard and super mushroom. We actually tossed them from a balcony, with a small weight (so that they inflated before they hit the ground).

Dwain wasn't convinced that either mushroom or super mushroom had an advantage. I felt that super mushroom was less likely to hesitate, and that there was no difference in "normal" inflation time.

I do think that the primary cause of hesitations is the ZP getting trapped against itself, rather than the "gross" malfunctions (knotted center line, bridle over, etc). I think the super mushroom addresses the most common problem (by "pre-opening" the ZP) experienced by hesitating mushroom packed PC's. I hesitate to recommend it, because, as Tree points out, it blatantly violates the received wisdom that BASE PC's ought to be packed with center line extended. To each their own, I suppose. For my own, I'll usually take the super mushroom.

I'd definitely like to see more research done, and I bet that we can come up with even better packing methods.

Does anyone besides me hear Nikolas cackling whenever someone says "mushroom"?

I'd definitely like to see more research done, and I bet that we can come up with even better packing methods.

Does anyone besides me hear Nikolas cackling whenever someone says "mushroom"?


Yes...
Once while he was eating Super Mushrooms from the basement grow room Nick also
got the idea of a rocket assisted Pilot Chute to solve that nasty hesitation problem.

..Ray

Did my first Super Mushroom last night. Like it very much, thanks! Gives me a better grip, but makes me wonder if it is going to pop out on the way down. Maybe a little base paranoid.....

Changed the packing to be faster:
1. S fold the bridle first, and make the turns of the S at the bridle attachment point.
2. Hold the bridle in one hand, and the other, work over the mesh with thumb and fore finger, to just after the mesh and ZP joins. This also makes the centre thinghy to be streched out.
3. Push your bridle, sorry, the bridle into the centre of the mesh, as you hold it with your thumb and fore finger.
4. Bring the mesh down, and then the ZP.

Very easy...

Getting it into the pouch is still.....not easy.

Thanks again.

Sorry I missed the discussion, I was off BASE jumping. Made some cool jumps during my journey, thanks guys (you know who you are). I want to start by saying that the way one packs their PC is a very personal choice. I have no intention of telling people how they should or should not pack their PC. I am merely sharing my experiences and what I do. Each BASE jumper is their own pilot on each BASE jump and should only jump in a manner that they feel comfortable with.

Here is how I typically pack my PC for different situations.
*For exits above 500 feet I use the regular mushroom.
*For exits between 400-500 feet I may use either the regular mushroom or the Super Mushroom.
*For stowed exits below 400 feet I use the Super Mushroom.
*For handheld exits below 400 feet I use my handheld version of the regular mushroom or I take the Super Mushroom out of my BOC and keep it together to use handheld.

Gardner,
Yes during years past I have experimented with different ways of achieving the Super Mushroom and have done alternative ways of packing it similar to what you and baseclimb have tried (minus pulling the center-line all the way through). For me, the difference is neatness. I already have the muscle memory to do it quickly and neatly on a flat surface (takes me about 1 min 30 seconds at a normal pace). After hundreds of jumps using the Super Mushroom I have found it to be very consistent the way I pack it. In my opinion, the neater (more uniformly) you gather the seam and make the layers of rip-stop and mesh, the better. It sounds like Zennie came up with a hybrid of the two and I like the fact that he lays it down and redresses it (Im assuming for neatness).

Each picture does not constitute a step. I have broken the pack-job down into 6 steps.
I think it is easier to think of gathering the seam as one step (step 2). This is the tricky step so I have included many pictures of how I do it to help make it clear. There are multiple pictures for other steps as well to make it easier to learn. I think if you consider each picture as its own step, you are making it harder to learn.

I appreciate your question jalisco.

I used to worry about the center-line years ago and as an added precaution I would pull about half of the center-line into the mesh fold and leave the rest in the rip-stop fold. My concern was that the centerline might be able to create some kind of tension knot on itself. By isolating half of it in the mesh and the other half in the rip-stop it creates two shorter lengths. My thought was that it would be less possible for a shorter length to knot on itself than a longer length. I still believe that to be true but after years of considering it I now feel comfortable leaving the center-line in the rip-stop fold, however positioning (laying) it in a way whereby it is not lying on itself or twisted on itself. During step 1, look at the positioning of the center-line, consider it, think about how to lay it clean so it cannot knot on itself or hitch around anything. (This is a great reason to NOT use the Super Mushroom on a PC with a handle in it). Now with the center-line positioned in a horse-shoe shape off to one side of the cap, when you grab your nug and flip it over the center-line is not going anywhere. It should stay right there to one side in the rip-stop fold. When thrown, as the PC expands open, the center-line becomes extended simultaneously.

For me, the risk of having a hesitation with the regular mushroom scares me more than the remote chance of anything weird happening with the center-line. By carefully positioning the center-line while packing the Super Mushroom, I think the chances of anything weird happening with the center-line diminish.

Gardner, Zennie, and baseclimb – If you are packing it the way you described, you may want to consider pulling the center-line through the gathered seam so that it is isolated in two halves like I described above.

Tree,
I know how to pack a regular mushroom as do most BASE jumpers. I personally use the regular mushroom on about half of my jumps. The Super Mushroom is an advanced PC pack job designed to reduce the risk of a hesitation which does happen sometimes with a regular mushroom. I have almost gone-in more than once due to a regular mushroom hesitating. This has happened going stowed and handheld.

It does indeed take more effort to pack a Super Mushroom and it may seem complicated to some. Based on my experience with the Super Mushroom (which is many years and hundreds of jumps using it) I totally disagree with Trees speculative opinion about the results. I consider the Super Mushroom to be more reliable than the regular mushroom on low jumps (under 400 feet).

Tree you are confused. Gardner was not talking about the standard method. He was talking about a different way to pack a Super Mushroom. Furthermore, the regular mushroom (standard method) has proven to hesitate occasionally.

You are basing your comments on pure speculation.

Based on the experience I have with the Super Mushroom, it is my opinion that it opens a little quicker than the regular mushroom normally does. However, for me the primary benefit is that the Super Mushroom has proven to me that it does not have a tendency to occasionally hesitate like the regular mushroom does. Out of hundreds of jumps using the Super Mushroom (the way I pack it), I have never had a hesitation. Instead I have had consistent very quick PC inflations.

Aside from how the PC is thrown, I think hesitations happen because of the way the PC is packed. Not whether it is stowed or handheld. Keep in mind that a typical handheld regular mushroom is packed different than a typical stowed regular mushroom (for example: the mesh s-folds are shorter). I personally have more confidence in the handheld version of the regular mushroom than I do with the stowed version of the regular mushroom. However, I have experienced hesitations with both.

I consider the Super Mushroom to be the most reliable and consistently quick-opening PC pack-job that I know of. I have more confidence in my PC going stowed with the Super Mushroom than I do going handheld with a regular mushroom. I do like going handheld too because it gives me more freedom of how I can throw it.

Just keep in mind that when you jump with a regular mushroom, the center-line is not extended. While packing, it starts out being extended, and then it is s-folded with the mesh. When thrown it still has to unfold the s-folds before you get center-line extension. In my opinion it is the s-folded collapsed mesh that causes the occasional hesitation.

The Super Mushroom was designed to get the PC to expand open quicker and reliably. When thrown, the gathered seam begins to expand open immediately. Likewise the center-line extends instantaneously.

Yea, it is short. I usually use the regular mushroom on jumps involving higher airspeeds.

Youre welcome.

First, thanks for posting the detailed instructions. I've been curious about this packjob for some time. I have also experimented (indoors) with Gardner's modification, which I found a little easier but seemed to give the same result. I have one question, but first I'll describe how I do the regular mushroom packjob so I know we're on the same page.

When I pack my pc, I give it kind of an overhand toss so the pc is lying on its side with the fabric away from me and the mesh close. I s-fold the bridle about half the length of the mesh, then wrap it like a hot dog with the near half of the mesh. Then I fold the bottom half of the mesh (with enclosed bridle) away from me so that the pc attachment point sits at the fabric-mesh boundary. With the remainder of the mesh, I wrap the "hot dog" once more, then I pick up the pc by this roll and pull the fabric around the whole thing.

With my method, the deployment of the pc is very well staged. The bridle can't really come out until the pc has completely extended itself, and I feel like this avoids "bridle dump", which I would think increases the chance of bad things like tension knots in the bridle. With the super-mushroom, it seems like the bridle has a clear point of exit at the "bottom" of the mushroom.

That might be a good thing, or a bad thing. I don't know. An overly-staged deployment might be slightly slower than one where the bridle can come out more freely. Also, if the bridle is free to come out, it might slow the rest of the pc less, and result in better extension of the bridle. On the other hand, this might result in an increased tendency toward bridle dump (particularly with a lazy grip on the cap). Who knows.

I'm wondering if you have any comments on this.

Michael