Basejumper.com - archive

Has anyone here had a chance to look at the 5th control line thread at http://basejump.org
I was curious to see what people here thought of this discussion.

Matt

edit: Here's a link directly to the discussion in question. ~Tom Aiello

I got the 5th line mod done to my Fox '265 (Vtec no covers, loaded at 0.73:1). Definitely agree with what they say about the trade-off between control range and flare, got dumped on my arse this past Monday. However I really wanted the stronger flare. My first skydiving canopy was a Cruiselite '220, my accuracy rig has a Parafoil '252 in it, landing them is a lot easier (but of course neither of them is vented).

I'm glad I did it, but I'll be putting the Fox in my accuracy rig, do some hop n pops and get the flare dialled in. Also, getting the mod done will make your brake settings slightly deeper so that is something to be aware of. (but I only have 23 jumps, so check with a grown-up before believing anything I say).

Will

I think Jason is a very smart guy, who does a heck of a lot more jumping than most, and does it very well. I'm not sure how he is on sketchy climbs, though...I believe the appropriate Australianism is "peakin' off his nut".

My experience has been that the fifth control line noticeably changes the canopy's flare. However, the change it makes is drastically different from canopy to canopy.

I think the people it helps most are folks like me--short, fat guys on big canopies. My arms just aren't long enough to get full flare out of a 290 or 310 size canopy, so shortening the flare stroke (by adding the extra control line) is a big help.

I've found that the flatter a canopies trim, in general, the bigger impact the extra control line has. I've got no idea why this is, it's just my subjective observation. So, in my limited experience, adding the 5th line to a FOX changes it's flare a lot, but adding it to a Mojo doesn't change the flare nearly as much. I haven't tried removing a line from and Ace or Flik to test this, though. Take this with a grain of salt, as it's just an offhand observation.

I do think there is a difference in where the fifth control line attaches. There are multiple places you could put it (I even saw one canopy that had a fifth control line attached on the outboard stabilizer, so that it effected the side, rather than the tail of the canopy), and each will have a different effect on the flare profile of the canopy.

In short, I think Jason is right. But I also think there's a lot going on there that is over my head. Maybe someone a bit smarter, and with a bit more experience, can help us iron it out.

ive got it on my fox(by local rigger),and willl get it on the next one aswell...

As the designer of the FLiK, Todd Shoebotham, after reading the entire thread, has made the following statements for me to give out to all. First is that he completely supports the fact that jumpers are making adjustments in the field to fine tune the FLiK to better perform for their particular situations and preferences. We've had many comments from both directions; some people love the FLiK so much that they've added the 5th UCL to their FOXes, and others that didn't like the 5th and removed it from the FLiK. This is good! We want people to have gear that performs it's absolute best for each individual. Next, when the FLiK was designed, it was meant to feel different and sportier than the FOX. We were aiming at a better landing performance; the 5th UCL has done just that. The FLiK will feel natural to a high-performance canopy pilot, but may feel strange to a long-time FOX pilot. We can understand why after flying a FOX for years some pilots have a dislike for the FLiK landings, especially when they flare the FLiK like they used to flare the FOX. The FLiK will definitely stall and drop you on your behind if you flare too deeply, so learning the stall point of the FLiK is important when first trying it out. For example, some of our German jumpers actually added 10 inches to the lower control lines so they still stalled at crotch depth rather than waist or hip depth, as they were use to with the FOX. The FOX and the FLiK are two different canopies, and will not turn or flare the same, especially when flown side by side. This was intentional, and most jumpers that were aware of the different intentions really did appreciate the design changes of the FLiK, both the 5th UCL and the higher aspect ratio. We have not stopped manufacturing the FOX for good reason; it’s a good parachute with strong attributes. Todd sees a day coming where we have even more site-specific canopies in our line; the Norwegians and wing suit flyers have different needs than the Aussies or Belgians that jump primarily low stuff with tight landing areas. There may come a day that we have a student canopy, as well, along with mid- and high-end performance canopies. And finally, we at Basic Research would like to tell you all that your input is a very valuable tool to us as manufacturers. It feels great when we get positive comments that you love our gear and are completely happy, but it’s even more important for you to tell us when you think our baby is ugly. Your negative comments tell us the areas that could stand improvement and spur us into action to address those issues and make any changes or adjustments to better our products overall. We’re often stuck in the office and shop, so we miss the talk in the field that enables us to improve or design to suit today’s needs and situations. Thank goodness for the web forums! Keep on posting, and please don’t hesitate to call or e-mail us with any questions you may have.

As always, be safe, have fun, and soft landings!

Karen Thomas
Office Manager
Basic Research
www.basicresearch.com

CUT IT OFF!!!!!!!!!11

wow.. thats good i can use that to much,like not...
Try to statement why you dont like it,and why it shouldnt be there..

i added 5th line to my fox265 vtec and i like it.

this is why base is personal sport. you do what you feel comfortable with. thats all

but your info didnt really help did it?If i should follow your surgestion and take off my 5th line,i would really know why its so bad to have it there in the first place...if you dont have such,then its personal,and you have no real reasson to advice for so..

Just my personal oppinion