Basejumper.com - archive

Yo !

Please post your canopy data (i.e. vents, # of jumps) and packing preferences (rolling the nose, etc) if you wish. This may be a good educational subject we didn't grind too much yet...

bsbd!

Yuri.

I use mesh slider on all my canopies. The "regular" canopies I jump are a Troll MDV 290 and a Blackjack 280 (ZP composite topskin).

I did purchase a sail slider with the Blackjack, mostly because I was just recovering from major spine surgery. I used the sail slider out of aircraft 5 or 6 times. Next I tried cutting a coffee can sized hole in the sail slider (thanks Lukas!), and found the openings were still very acceptable. I then tried a mesh slider from an aircraft. I concluded that the openings were tolerable, even in my weakened state. The openings were fairly hard, so I avoided the mesh slider for a few months thereafter. Once my spine was fully healed, I returned to using the (large hole) mesh slider.

I have since concluded that, for me personally, the real decision to make is between small and large hole mesh sliders. Since I'm fairly lazy, and prefer not to have to switch out my sliders, I tend to just leave the large hole mesh on all the time.

I prefer my Mojo 260's with large hole mesh sliders and
34" pilot chutes. No rolling the nose. I use the same fast "bridge" pack job on Slider down and slider up jumps. I do pay extra attention to the velcro though, making sure it is properly mated and secure. Passing through 500ft at terminal is no place for a sail slider

adios Rodriguez

Small mesh slider for me, please!
(otherwise known as marquisette).

K
#763

I have modified a regular F111 slider by cutting out a coffee can sized hole in it. Seems to be a known method, as I have heard this trick from several jumpers around the US. As far as I can tell, its created ventilation is the same as a mesh slider, and equivilant to a bikini slider found on PD reserve canopies.

Are there any downsides to this modified method? It has worked beautifully for me every time, then again, I only have 15 base jumps. Good topic discussion Yuri. C ya!

Edit to add: 32" pilot chute, and packed exactly like a reserve, no rolling, nose exposed.

The terminal jumps I have done I used a large hole mesh slider and a 38" AV PC - this with a dagger266 packed no differently to the way I pack slider down.

The opening was "brisk" but certainly not what I would term a "Ball Schwacker"!

I like to feel the mutha open!!

I have 500+ BASE jumps from 100+ objects. I have toyed just a bit with variables, but now have a standard that I follow without fail. I have a hybrid flat-pro pack, which is basically the flat pack I learned from Dennis on the first BASE jump I made, with a little Choppin, a bit of "Utah", and a touch of BR and CR tech. What I end up with is a very symetrical split pack job. It is the same every time. For slider down, I use a 46" non-vented PC every time. Tried the vented ones, don't like them. Also, I use a tail gate with larks head black rubber, wrapped two times, regardless of delay, s/l to 3 seconds. Never had a tail-gate snag. When going slider up, regardless of delay, 4 seconds to 20 seconds, I pack exactly the same except wrapping the tail around the nose instead of just around itself, all I do is pull the slider up, remove the tailgate, use the C-line slider keeper rubber band, and a 38" non-vented PC. (Also re-routing the steering lines). I always use a high aspect ratio large hole mesh slider. That includes BirdMan BASE and standard free fall BASE. Why do I do it like this? It works for me, every time so far. I prefer a positive quick opening to an unpredictable snivel. Your mileage may vary. Oh yeah, I should mention, water jump pack jobs are different, usually it's with a round.

Results with this method seem good so far. But I wouldn't call it an established method. I'd consider myself a test jumper using anything the manufacturer hasn't tested before releasing the gear. As long as you accept the risk of being a test jumper, have at it.

I think the only real risk with the "coffee can" slider is that it may be less consistent and/or less symmetric than the mesh. Introducing yet another inconsistent variable into an already very random system just kind of scares me.

I'll agree with Avery. I'd rather have regularly hard openings than getting a weird snivel every 50th jump.

By request, I add:
On terminal jumps I try to use my Perigee Pro pin closed rig, although I have on occasion gone with my Odyssey velcro rig. If it is a Wingsuit flight, I use only the pin rig. (Moderator, I could not edit previous post). Also, I jump only Mojo 260's on all regular BASE jumps, wingsuit included. For water jumps I use the Mini Perigee and Tektite, or disposable clapped out gear.

my preferences at t.v.

when jumping an;
unvented F-111 canopy = mesh
vented F-111 canopy = no expereince
ZP top skin canopy = sail (mesh = ouch!)

preferred configuration = F-111 with mesh
i also like to use a "slag", a sleeve / bag made of spandex that i pull over the canopy.
it seems to work well to inhibit center-cell-stripping without effecting on-heading performance, ( i do not pull the slag ove the nose).

BSBD
craig

The system has an automatic time out. If it's been more than a certain amount of time (I think it's set at 24 hours) you can no longer edit the posts. If you really need to edit an older post, send me a PM and I can do it for you.

edit: Hmmm. Your posts were only eight or nine hours apart, though, weren't they? Let me see if I can figure it out.

For terminal:

Fox 265 vtec/valves: Small mesh slider, 36" F1-11 small mesh p/c @ Norway. Openings fine

After that I tried a large mesh slider, 38" F1-11 large mesh p/c to 10 secs with same canopies @ Switzerland, openings comfortably firm

I'd be inclined to stick with large mesh slider from here on in

I want to know who the guy is who survived a slider down terminal opening? Please elaborate on how this happened. I've heard of it happening at least one other time. Thanks.

Other than the Pick ? ;-) Actually many people did in the early skydiving square days before sliders were invented. Ouch!!!

My current terminal setups: vented and unvented Foxes (couple hundred jumps), vented Troll MDV (pretty new), unvented Impy (SouthAfrican BASE canopy, about 50 jumps). All large mesh sliders.

Pack job: over-the-shoulder propack, stabilizers rolled, tail wrapped around stabilizers, nose left outside and 3 outer cells on each side rolled - tighter or looser depending on a particular canopy and delay. BTW rolling the nose is a pretty powerful tool that allows to fine-tune an opening speed quite a bit while being totally predictable and consistent. It also greatly improves on-heading perfomance, which is a funny side effect since i generally don't care about on-headings ;-) No Multi, i do not like it but that's a separate subject. A variety of containers, they do not matter as far as opening is concerned.

Same Troll packed BR-style opens noticeably harder, so your pack job/slider combo needs to be tuned up for your own style.

I have owned Mojo, a couple of Pegasus and Cruislite canopies with small mesh sliders before. They would have probably worked better with large mesh, now thinking about it.

bsbd!

Yuri.

I have cut two coffee can holes in my sail slider which seems to be the same as a mesh slider, and used it at bridge day, and it works very well.

Base #536

For terminal I used a Fox VTEC 245 with a 38in pc
For slider down I used a 45in BR pc for most stuff.
Meeker

My first base parachute was a modified raven 240, i had large hole mesh slider.

I was advised to test this parachutes flight characteristics on the DZ in preparation for my first jump.

I knew my first jump would be a slider down jump with a delay of 3 seconds.

So with a low pass out of a grand caravan (which slowed to 100 knots) i exited flat and stable with zoo toggles and slider tied firmly down.

I waited a little longer than 3 seconds and dumped at 5 -6 seconds, which is pretty effin terminal.

My opening picture was of both feet clouding a square and shaking parachute.

I was dizzy and seeing traces for about 10 seconds, i had riser burns across my neck and cheeks and still have reduced range of motion in my neck.

in short it does happen (granted now days only to some random freaks), and it definately makes every opening after that a piece of cake.

"if your gonna be stupid you gotta be tough"

Hello --

For voting purposes on this poll, I voted for Mesh Slider, although I do use a sail slider on occasion.

Out of 500+ BASE jumps, I've only made 50 to 70 jumps at terminal-like speeds (8 seconds plus). I've made in the neighborhood of 200 sub-terminal slider-up jumps, and roughly 250 jumps slider-down.

I own a Mojo 280, an Ace 280, and another Ace 280 with a composite ZP-topskin (zp on the front-third of the top skin). I also own a Tektite round, but that doesn't really apply to this discussion.

On the Mojo, I always use a large-hole mesh slider.

However, on both of my Aces, I occasionally use a sail slider when altitude and object-proximity permits. I've found that with my packing style, the Ace still opens up quickly with a sail-slider. So if I'm opening up relatively high (tossing the pilot-chute above 600ft), and I'm not super-close to the object, I'll use a sail slider to make the openings slightly more comfortable. (I'm soft)

If I'm going to be close to the object at opening, or if I plan on pulling in the basement, I'll use a large-hole mesh slider every time.

Disclaimer: Using a sail slider on a BASE jump is not standard practice in today's jumping environment. Many people use mesh sliders as it leads to consistently faster openings and may lead to better heading performance.

C-ya,

Bryan

 Hey Brian, good post! Not only does a large hole mesh slider at terminal (non-vented) lead to better heading, it seems that large-hole mesh sliders that are Oversized may be the next big thing in slider up sub-terminal base. Don't quote me.
Vented canopy, slider terminal; small hole mesh is the ticket.

Put a slider on an Ace, all bets are off (heading wise). Opinion based on experience. Many besides yours truly's experience.

Personal terminal pack; non-vented mojo as most of my terminal experience (about 160 jumps mojo terminal), a flick is my new one and I've done the same with great result with the only difference being a small hole mesh slider. Also many ace jumps at terminal, 60+, but no more, that's for sure. (I know there are many Ace fans around, but in my heart I know that the Ace is not the answer once a slider is added to the mix)--- Anyway..., my pack is; Pro pack, hidden stabilizers, no micro-reefing, 3 outers rolled very tight- inwards! and center cell wrapping the outside cells only, not the pack job. (4 seconds to terminal, all great headings and no snivel)-(Can you really make a base canopy snivel without a sail?). It's hard to explain the center cell part, but it's the only way I pack with a slider and to me it makes sense. No matter if it's a large hole (non-vented canopy) or small hole (vented canopy) slider, I use cut down micro bands (clear or black) and wrap it 2 times on left center c-line (I've done one band on each center c, and have not seen any difference). I always use masking tape on my brake lines, two times around with quality 3M type tape, even legal bridge sort of sub-term slider stuff. I'm just getting into slider sizes and can't really post on that subject. There are wiser men (general human meaning, not sexist) than me. Thanks JJ.

This is really a great subject (thanks Y) that has not been discussed or even mentioned enough. Not all terminal jumps have a no object strike potential, even wingsuit. When you are clearing ledges etc., terminal heading is as important as many typically slider down technical type jumps.

Hopefully, I'll see all of you sometime at some terminal exit point. See you soon BPS.

--No signature, but you know who I am. I like it better that way.

Edited to say I edited to fix some really shitty spelling. Now go jump!

How far above the slider do you make these wraps? Is 3M tape the brown paper masking tape?

 I tape right below the brake line attachement points on the canopy. I say 3M because it's a good brand of masking tape, any professional tape will work. Just ask your local painter about quality masking tape, crappy discount tape is not even worth the time. It's usually so flimsy, it doesn't do anything but maybe make you feel better about your pack job. That feeling goes away quickly with a line over. I'm not (and I don't think anyone is at this point) 100% sure that the tape will totally prevent a line over, but it has been tested for almost two years by many (probably longer, but I don't know, I'm sure Nick has some stories of crusty jumpers back in the day using tailgates with sliders packed half-way up). All of those who tried it that I know are still using it and speaking highly of it. I also jump with someone who SWEARS by a tailgate on all jumps, yes, slider jumps as well. He has had great results for well over a year. I know others have been doing this for years.

Ray uses this method and was doing so in KL. He had a line-over that cleared without him even knowing that was caught on video by Annie (one of 3 that day).

I deleted your post. I encourage you to turn on the PM feature. ~ Tom Aiello

 I have a rubberband larksheaded onto the inboard steering line attachment point on both of my Mojos. Instead of the tailgate, I use it for both slider up and slider down jumps. When packing, I run all the steering lines together at their attachment points, then make a bite with them and doublewrap the rubberband around them as a group. I usually do this over my shoulder before I set it down on the floor. I've compared opening videos of my canopies using tailgates and this method and couldn't tell a difference between the two. I have about 350+ BASEjumps on this method, as well as 500+ skydiving jumps. I've noticed no hangs or other probs and most important. No line overs. Has anyone else used this method and had probs or success? It seems cleaner and simpler than a tailgate or tape, yet acheives the same result. Of course it may be black death also and just hasn't bitten me yet

Mike

Could you post a pic illustrating exacly how you go about this. I'm pretty sure I understand what it is you do, I would like to see it just to be clear. Thanks.