Basejumper.com - archive

Psssst,

Hey Kit, buyin a BASE rig, huh?

Out of curiosity, is your profile up to date?

Done 66 skydives?

Hmmmm. Ya know, a BASE manufacturer wouldn't sell you a rig, nor would most BASErs with a rig for sale. Thank GOD for EBAY!

1 thing to learn from this though

if ya ever see a guy at ya local drop zone or cliff with gear you know is stolen dont beat the shit out of him then ask questions
as he may not know it was stolen and bought it off ebay

Matt

Nah, beat him first.

As Buddman says "call it stupid tax".

Gee thanks, I am really feeling the love here!

I've found that no matter how genuine and "good-meaning" the thought is, articulate and non-sarcastic replies are most often heard better.

Just a thought.......

Friend,

BTW... 300+ skydives ain't the basis for any criticism on your part. If it were 300+ base jumps I'd have kept my mouth shut.

I have removed this thread form the "stolen gear" thread. I think there is a worthwhile discussion to be had here (regarding the level of experience of purchasers of rigs on e-bay, and the general suitability of on-line auctions for selling BASE gear).

This is not an invitation to start a flame fest.

Discuss the topic. Don't just start calling each other names. I'll keep a close eye on this thread and ban for 48 hours anyone who tries to turn it into a flame fest. Consider this a pre-warning to anyone posting in this thread.

Actually, I have personal experience in the matter, having made my 151st parachute ride off a fixed object. Even with two previous canopy control courses, I became quickly uncomfortable BASEing at the time. I didn't believe then, nor do I believe now that I was wired correctly for it at the time. Hell, until then, I was opening at an average of 6k. I was not prepared to exit low nor deploy low. A year of researching and preparing, and 150 skydives later, I started again, and am much more comfortable with BASE.

With a double digit number, I'll listen to you all day long. If you had said something about someone with 66 jumps buying a rig on a no-questions website, I would have totally agreed. If you would have said his was a great choice and welcome to the club, I would have disagreed, but read everything you had to say. Since he posted it tho, nobody mentioned anything. I decided I would. If that's a bad thing to bring to light, sorry. If I am too green to have opinions on the matter, I will go back to contently reading people's thoughts, concepts and experiences.

I am also sorry if you noted condescention or sarcasm in my post. I'd really rather you didn't read it that way. Skip the word "whopping" in future readings. Tom, if you wanna kill that word, I would appreciate it.

Still, I have issues with two things: 1) Buying a BASE rig with very few skydives. 2) Unrestricted availability to buy a rig (on sites such as EBAY). Read the world base fatalities list. People have died for similar reasons.

cya

Ok I know I am getting into dangerous territory here but here is my view on this.
My motivation to buy a base rig on ebay was only because I saw the opportunity to buy a base rig at a great deal. I had no intention whatsoever to go use this with my little skydiving experience.
I can see where the Ebay thing, for items like base rigs and high performance canopies could be desastrous for some young, MTV/ESPN Generation, No Fear shirt, dum kids who think they are invincible and immortal.
I am not one of those. I have a family and I fully understans the risks involved.
The fact is that base rigs/high performance canopies are not dangerous as objects. But they become leathal in the wrong hands.
So yes, in this respect, I believe that selling these items on Ebay is not a good idea. Nonetheless, buying a rig on Ebay does not necessarly means you are a wreckless kid that will most likely kill himself with it. I was gonna buy this base rig because it appeared like good deal (also got my Tria 150 on Ebay for dirt cheap) and was going to sit on it until I had the necessary skills and the proper people to initiate me. I live in Norcal and there are a lot of them at my DZ.

 I think there is a worthwhile discussion to be had here (regarding the level of experience of purchasers of rigs on e-bay.......
I'm not sure which direction this topic is going, I think it's in regards to people selling BASE gear on Ebay? Or selling BASE gear over the net in general without knowing who the buyer is?

And someone please clarify for me, because I've never baught new gear from a BASE manufacturer. Well, only a PC. But I bought my rig used off the internet.
My question is, do the BASE manufacturers sell rigs to anyone who puts up the money? If I were to place an order for a brand new rig to one of the manufacturers via credit card, would they mail it to me no questions asked? If this is the case, then I can't see where the argument is for selling to unknown people if they can get if from the original source, brand new.

Just my opinion.

cya
Rod

In general, I was thinking of selling gear without doing some kind of checking on the buyer. It's more an ethical issue, than anything else, in my opinion. It takes only a few minutes to ask: "what's your experience level?" and "who are you jumping with?". Usually, you can tell if someone is trying to hand you a line when they answer these questions.


My experience has been that it depends on the manufacturer. Most of them will ask your level of skydiving experience, and try to maintain a base level (like 150 skydives) for purchasing gear. Sometimes it gets missed, and some folks are desparate enough for the business that they don't mind.

Maybe some manufacturers will comment on their specific policies?


I would hope not. I know that when I bought my fist rig (new from a manufacturer) I felt like I was getting the third degree (what business of it was theirs who _I_ would jump with?) In retrospect, I think it's probably good ethics, as well as good business practice (think, lawsuits) to ask.

P.S. Want to see my "who is this rfarris guy?" correspondence file? I tend to do that when I see people pop up on the net and start asking questions, too, just to be sure they're in touch with someone, somewhere, who has some experience.

Tom

sounds like you're the J. Edgar Hoover of the BASE internet, right there....

I guess if any sport needs that, BASE is definitely it and kudos to you for doing your part for it.

umm...nope, but I see your point and agree, ethically.

chow.

I was recently selling a rig. Most eMails I received were from “wannabes” – after some questions to find out that they were not jumping but “had a mentor” I would then only talk with this “mentor” and asked them to get them to contact me. Funny that these “mentors” seemed never to email me!!

Saying that I also received contact from a few “BASE” jumpers – to be honest after speaking I just felt a little uncomfortable in selling to them as they were low timers with no real solid base to go out and jump (no contacts, not enough knowledge about UK jumping) – and I just felt uncomfortable in selling to them.

In the end I sold the kit to someone who had done the BR course but had never made a fixed object jump – why? Because I was friends and jumped with 2 people that knew him very well and they vouched for him – I trusted their opinion. Since then I have made a jump with the guy I sold the rig to and he recently made a bunch of jumps on a trip, I have no problem in jumping with him in the future.

There are more important things in life than money………………….

Its shit easy to buy a BASe rig on the net,no Q´s asked.thats the way it works no matter how much we like it.

i got my first rig from the net,just orderede by email payed by check,recived it 1 week later.. at that time i didnt even knew any to teach me(wanted to go to Norway at a BR course,but never telled the seller).

I got my 2 rig after i were injuryed,and well know hereso i guess that one dont count

Hey M,it still flyes and have given me some of my best weivs/jumps i just love that gear..And no i wont sell

>My question is, do the BASE manufacturers sell rigs >to anyone who puts up the money?

Everything about BASE jumping is always in a continuos state of change, except for its history. And there’s a timeline in that history concerning the above that might provide an answer.

In the early 1980’s, as BASE jumpers began exploring the art of going lower and slower, the need for BASE specific gear becomes readily apparent. Bigger pilot chutes and longer bridles, the first two implementations, aren’t at first commercially available anywhere. Generally all BASE jumpers of the day are also active skydivers so if you needed this stuff you talked your local rigger into building them for you. Of course, these riggers are doing this for jumpers they know, not strangers off the street or through the mail. And besides BASE jumping has almost zero visibility in the whuffo community at this time, compared with today, as the whole “extreme sport” thing is still a few years away.

In the mid-1980s BASE magazines like “BASEline” and “JUMP” are carrying adverts for BASE pilot chutes and bridles. These components are built by the first crop of BASE jumpers who turned to rigging in order to finance their jumping. In some cases they really are licensed parachute riggers and sometimes they weren’t. A little later Velcro closed BASE containers became available from some of these same riggers turned manufactures. This is before BR, CS, Vert, or any of the big companies now. However, BASE rigs in those days are nothing more than new Velcro closed containers sewn to old, but serviceable skydiving rigs. In this period, people of little, or no experience are kept at bay because the BASE community is still small enough that almost every one knows everyone else.

Late 1980s and into the early to mid-90s, the best of the above, and a few new faces, moved from home lofts and garages into stand alone buildings and became full fledged BASE equipment manufacture. This is a time when yes, pretty much anyone could call up on the phone with a credit card and get BASE gear.

However, this is before it occurred to anybody that the following could happen.

#30 Andre Jewett, April 3, 1994
Age: 29
Antenna Jump (###### Tower)
Jackson, Mississippi, USA
"Andre is an expired USPA "A" license holder and an Army officer. There are
three observers on the load, one is a buddy of his and the other two are girlfriends.
Andre's skydiving gear sniveled to impact. There is nothing to suggest any pervious
BASE experience or training."

#47 Unknown (French?) 199?
Cliff Jump, ######
######, France
"Reports describe this person has having no BASE jumps, no training, no experienced
jumper with him, etc. He purchased BASE gear, chose an under-hung location to launch
from (not one of the ##### regular launch points), pivoted off the launch, went on his back, and struck the cliff in freefall. This fatality caused BASE gear manufacturers to start better screening their customers prior to the sale of BASE equipment."

It’s at this time when Adam from CS says, “Hey fellows, a BASE rig is a loaded gun.” After that, rules like be an experienced skydiver and you’re going to Bridge Day, or have X amount of skydives and you’re being taught by a known BASE jumper, or have X amount of jumps and you’re taking a commercial first BASE jump course, go into effect.

And this is basically what exists today. Can someone still just phone up and get decked out, probably yes, but maybe that’s more about the price of freedom rather than the manufactures not paying attention. But, all in all, they do a good job, and are surely more responsible than their brethren skydiving manufactures who sell hankies to anyone and are the cause of a fatality rate in skydiving that’s (unbelievably) the same as when I started jumping in 1975.

Nick
BASE 194

How fucking true!

Its strange how many skydivers still see BASE as "suicidal" - but have no problem in down sizing more and more earlier and earlier and no one bats an eye over it................

It is deemed "cool" to jump these little pocket rockets - and people are fucking up all over the place in front of the non-jumping public and friends........... but still we are deemed to be the "dangerous" ones! - fucking hypocrites!

a. Many BASE gear manufacturers have sold rigs to jumpers with very little experience, less than Kit. What now?
b. It´s cool that you have sorted out your own limits but where does that give you the right to impose your limit on others?
I am interested in your answers, thanks in advance.
take care,
space

amen to that