Basejumper.com - archive

 

Pro packing Vs Flat packing is really a matter of personal preference. In BASE you should be cleaning up and detailing the folds and line groups after the initial pack job anyway.

I usually start with a pro pack and clean it up after laying it down. Others flat pack, but it's the end result that matters.

You really ought to seek out a mentor and/or invest the time and money in a formal BASE course.
-Josh

I usually flat pack. I'd guess that around 60% of jumpers pro-pack as their preferred method.

The CR video teaches a pro-pack, the BR video teaches a flat pack. It's pretty much up to personal choice (or available space--I sometimes pro-pack in narrow hallways, and once flat packed in a low attic that probably wouldn't have been high enough for a pro-pack).

one word.... Dedication.....

Very new to base, so take it with a grain of salt, but from what I have seen, everyone PRO packs. Not necessarily standing up, but the flat packs I have seen, are more of a modified PRO pack. I believe BR even calls it a PRO pack in there manual, you just start out differently, with the canopy on it's side, but once you start flaking, it rapidly turns into a PRO pack alignement. Remember that PRO is an acronym for Proper Ram air Orientation, or something along those lines, it has nothing to do with being a Pre, or looking cool and standing up to pack. Everyone I've watched pack does something differetn, mostly in the micro reefing or the nose, but all end up with alomost the exact same result.

As far as skydiving rigs, do many people even still teach flat packing? That's how I learned, but was quickly re-taught to flat pack. I know our DZ does'nt even mention anything other than PRO packing anymore.

Ganja

The BASE flat pack is usually called a "Pro-Stack". It's a totally different pack job from a skydiving flat pack (same as a BASE pro-pack is different from a skydiving pro-pack), and more similar to a skydiving reserve flat pack.

Still, in shorthand, as used by most BASE jumpers, it's just called a flat pack.

In DK skydivestudents are only starting(theese months) to learn propack instead of "student-pack",all over DK.

I start my pack job as a PRO pack then lay it down and start over again by sorting out evrything.Perfect pack to me,and the places i pack

You are correct. The end result is a PRO pack. I personally PRO Pack over the shoulder then finish it up on the ground. Some times I PRO pack on the ground for the heck of it. The end results are the same. I haven't seen any one side pack their BASE parachute since way before I started BASE.

Side packing is still taught in many places. I still side pack student and tandem mains, and occasionally my sport parachute for the heck of it.

I'm a "clamper" so I do the flat approach. It helps me get the line groups pre-aligned nicely. Plus every time I try to do the standing method, my pack job always goes to s#!7 when I lay it down.

thats why you want to fix it as ints on the ground afterwards

I'm still using clamps

edit: missed the ing in using.

Where I learned to skydive they initaially taoght the "flat pack". This allows the student to walk around the pack job, looking at, learning about the canopy, line sets, etc. I believe to be an effective tool, with a transition to the pro pack after full understanding of the flat pack. Youd be suprised how many skydivers do not even know how to pack let alone know the ins and outs of their equipment.

nic

Wait... so did you write, "I'm still use clamps." ???

oooh you're soooo lucky I didn't catch that before you changed it. hehe...

Was just wondering how you came up with the acronym, Bigwallmaster? Do ya climb! Oh yeah, and I do a hybrid thing where I start flat packing with clamps, and once it's clamped, I put it over my shoulder and pro pack it, AND THEN, lay it on the ground and neaten it up. As the great Earl Redfern used to say though, "BASE parachutes are like women, if you show em too much attention, They'll F##k you over every time".

No ... I wrote: I'm still us clamps.

Did I mention....... Spanky got pushed.... and his pack job still opened up facing the right way.....

I used to pack without started clamps, saw no need! - now i always use them coz the way i see it - why the fuck not if it makes wrestling the crocodile easier!

I saw tom pack at bridge day.. i lost count of how many clamps he was using.. something like 12 or 14?
:)

i use 4.

I use 12, if I have them.

I recommend learning to pack without clamps, because you never know when you will need to pack, and not have them handy.

Given a choice, I'll use as many tools as possible, though. My standard pack job uses two stakes, four bungee tensioners, and twelve clamps. I've been experimenting with another two clamps on the stabilizers, too!

2 stakes? is that in both leg straps?
can you tell me "generally" where the hell you use so many clamps?
also how do you use the tensioners and what do you attach them to? the packing tab points?

I use 1 at the risers to group the lines - i at the line / canopy meet to control the lines - and 4 just to control after micro reefing and folding to hold it - I cant imagine where i would use / need more and why "at the stabalisers" would be beneficial??

Each to their own! and even if it has no function if it makes you happy at the exit point - then do it!! hehehe

seriously though - would be interested!

Errr. I forgot to mention that I also use two pull up cords.

Roughly, it's one clamp on each set of packing tabs (4 clamps), a stake through the three rings (1 stake), tie the three rings together with a pullup (I've had them slip apart with just the stake--1 pullup), one stake above the canopy (1 stake, 2 total), 4 tensioners from the stake above the canopy to the clamps on the packing tabs (4 tensioners), one pull up cord around the lines right at the canopy (1 pull up cord, 2 total), and four clamps down each side of the canopy (8 clamps, 12 total).

The real difference is that I don't remove the clamps on the top skin and re-use them on the sides. Instead, I leave them on and keep them under tension (to maintain line tension until I start stowing the lines in the tail pocket). The extra clamps on the side just make it easier to 'S' fold without squashing the pack job out of shape.

The thing I really like about packing this way is that I can pack in 30mph winds (and I have) or walk away and leave my pack job for 20 minutes, or even roll the pack job up and drive 1000 miles with it before finishing (I've done that, too).

have PM'd you a question............

For the newbies out there... Use of so many tools dramatically increases the potential for leaving a tool in the pack job. If one decides to use tools, PLEASE COUNT THEM, PLEASE LABEL THE TOOLS WITH LONG ORANGE PULLUP CORDS, ETC. If you use clamps, USE LARGE ONES SO THEY CAN BE EASILY DETECTED.

NEVER USE A CLAMPING TOOL OR PULLUP CORD TOOL ON YOU PILOT CHUTE. IT ASKS FOR DISASTER AND MAY HAVE ALREADY LED TO ONE BASE FATALITY IN THE RECENT PAST.

I left a clamp on my A lines once back in 98 prior to jumping a building. Fortunately, I found it before my jump by counting my tools.

I prefer 2 to 4 clamps if I have the luxury, but I can also flat pro-pack without any tools. I learned this simply by working in a loft under the supervision of a master rigger. Interestingly, he packed squares on a packing table. Frequently, my pack job can be neater without any tools.

FYI, the flat pro-pack I believe was originally done/invented by Moe Villetto.

I have heard of someone else that claims this! UK BASE "low low number"

As for tools etc! I agree! I used to tie my risers together with a pull up at the links - I borrowed a pull up from someone and packed! - they asked me for their pull up and I could not find it - I searched and searched - I then checked my rig and found it still tied around my risers!!!!! - My next jumps was a 220ft freefall A - thank the lord he asked me for it and I felt bad in not giving it back!!! that could have been interesting!!!

I now am so anal about anything I use for packing as a simple "lost thought" can and will cause a fucking interesting visual or pain!

i started to pack whith clambs,now i use them(thanks Blair and Tom) if i has them there,if not i still pack beautiful.
I had some problems that the plastic felt off (the clambs)inside the packjob...which caused me to many times to do a repack

 

That's what happened to me, too. We were just finishing up a nice little three day jaunt in the Valley, when these two guys came flying by. All I could think was: "I've got to do that."

Four years (and forty pounds) later, I haven't climbed anything serious in three and a half years. I've done a fair bit of jumping, though.

Welcome to the club. There's more like you than you realize.

What's interesting is that the reverse also seems to hold true. 460 & I have taken an interest in climbing due to our involvement with BASE.

Personally I started skydiving first, then climbing, then BASE.

I was leading 5.11 after about 6 months of climbing ;-)

I started skydiving in april due to an intrest in BASE through climbing also. What did it for me was that part in the Masters of Stone 5 video when they show the two guys jumping the Polar Sun Spire on Baffin Island. Since I have 54 skydives so far and havent done any climbing outside of the occasional gym and light bouldering session since then... so little time so much to do

Thanx for the reply Bigwallmaster, and let me also welcome you to the club. I have always refered to my self as a climber witha BASE addiction. Bachar-Yerian, Astroman, 5.12 on the Diamond with Derek Hersey is all alot more exciting with this little secret you have on what you're gonna do on your rest days. It's so nice to appreciate the stone as a whole, the ascention, as well as the descention. Have fun and be safe dood!

All I can say Tom is. . . . . . . .yep! that pretty much sums it up. And I can understand the 40 lbs. I have actually forced myself to stay active in my workouts, but it has been tought since I started jumping.


well anyways, we're getting a little off topic. Perhaps a new post about the inter-relationship of BASE and climbing is better discussed in a different.

hey thanks again for the insight on packing. . . .i'm sure as I have more time to think and digest what i've read, I will most certainly have more questions.

peace,

bigwallmaster

For me it went skydiving, climbing(because I wanted to be able to climb up, and then BASE a big wall in the future.), and then BASE.
I haven't made my first BASE yet, but hopefully real soon. I am lucky to have found a very competent mentor who is willing to teach me.

That is my story and I'm stickin to it.
Matt

With that resume you must have known Earl. You a Valley Rat still?

jon

Other than a weight or stake on the rig for line tension, why use tools? You can acheive the same results without them with practice. The more tools involved the more likely you are to leave someting in your packjob. I know of one person who left their pullup cord tied around their lines at the canopy on a slider down jump. The cord became a slider that barely allowed enough inflation to live through and not suffer any major injuries. You could use a hot iron also to get really neat and straight folds but I doubt it will help with openings in anyway. Go natural and you never have to worry about counting tools or leaving them at home and being forced to pack a unfamilar way. Clampers and flat packers need to go the way of the DoDo bird..

With better than 100 pack jobs "au naturalle", I don't really feel like it's that unfamiliar.

Present company excluded, I know of some who probably couldn't do it at all without clamps, and if they did it would be so scary looking nobody would jump it. People should learn natural first, and then once they are competent with it, then they can use tools if they choose. I just don't feel like they give any benefit in regards to opening heading or reliabilty. I've seen clamped canopys that were absolutly perfect looking, evey line and crease and they still had a 180. Each to their own I guess

My old man introduced me to climbing when I was a kid, then I got into Skydiving at University then BASE a few years after. But I always had the potential to BASE. When I was kidda, apparantly I watched black and white superman on the tele. When the show was finished, I would climb the stairs in the house and jump trying to fly. My Mum had to ban me from watching Superman as her friends were starting to get suspicious of my bruises!
Meeker

i like packing whith out tools.however sometimes i use them as i get the canopy into the harness.But most times i dont use them(sorry Blair and Tom),i got some really nice tools,which i have used,but as times goes i just found out i prefere to pack whithout..

if i want nice folds in my canopy i simlpy pack it until the time were i will take the canopy into the harness,at that point i just find somthing big and heavy to lay on the canopy for a while..,psst just pack as soon as you get home,then it wont mess as much as staying in a stashbag

I learned that way--first without tools, then adding tools. Honestly, I think it's easier to learn in the opposite order. Use the tools first, then once you understand the process, start learning how to control things by hand. It just seems like learning without tools is like learning two things (how to pack the canopy, and how to control the pack job) at one time, where learning to pack with tools narrows things down to one task (learning to pack).


In the end, it always has to be about how you feel about what is on your back.

 



The easiest way isn't always the best, or safest way. I think it well understood that most malfunctions and accidents are caused by pilot error. Throwing tools into the safety chain just increases the risk for human error to appear. People have left clamps and pullup cords in their packjob. Isn't this sorta violating the KISS method you suggest in your "My first BASE rig" article. I agree completetly with you on keeping it simple, which is the main reason why I have arguements with using tools. I would rather see someone struggle an extra hour getting their rig packed than see them go in with a pullup cord around their risers or some other self-induced problem.





In the end, it always has to be about how you feel about what is on your back.
Yes indeed, I'll always know that there isn't a clamp or cord wrapped up in there somewhere. One less doubt or worry in my mind. I have enough of them already

Bringing this post back to life....

A couple weeks ago I saw the "Chuck Peters" video:
http://vimeo.com/38341445 and I gave it a shot this weekend. I found it to be an easy packjob, fast and I was comfortable with it.

When I jumped the packjob I experienced a soft onheading opening. My friends said the inflation was "strange" and I could not get much more of a description of out them other than "it seems to inflate from the tail first".

Any experience with this packjob or similar ones (i'm told there is a "west coast" style that is similar)? I'm very interested in using this packjob with greater frequency, but more testing would be required before I started taking it off of objects other than a decently tall bridge.