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Being a safe BASE jumper
Is it just a statistical blip when someone survives 1000 BASE jumps or does it tell you something about that person? BASE is inherently unsafe but I'm interested to know what you think makes a 'safe' jumper. Not being afraid to climb down? Knowing when not to push your limits? Being happy to ask for advice and being willing to accept advice that you may not like? If you know someone with hundreds of jumps what is it about them that has kept them safe? If you know someone who got hurt was their attitude/personality a factor?

I don't jump but I'm taking a fjc soon. It wasn't a trivial decision for me to make, what swung it was my belief that BASE, like skydiving, is about risk management and that the individual can directly control (to a certain extent) the risk he is exposing himself too. Am I kidding myself?

Thanks,

Gus
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
Maybe it would be a good idea to make the distinction between a 'safe' base jumper and a 'good' base jumper. I have had the priveledge to meet the worlds best around the world and those with notoriety are often good at all aspects of the sport and have a wide variety of jumps. However, I also know jumpers who do not travel so much and stick to their locals. They only know their local objects but are consistently safe.

I've only completed my BASE this morning, but I can say through the people I've met and known that some have died whilst doing their best to be safe (and had a reputation for being safe). Others continue to live but are constantly pushing the boundaries and being hardcore (The Aussies for a start!).

Being safe only goes so far. You can do everything right and still die.

Meeker
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
BASE isn't risky, it's just that mistakes are unforgiving and very expensive.

Peace,

D-d0g
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
.... I'm interested to know what you think makes a 'safe' jumper.

I think every jumper has their own ideas about what it takes or means to be a safe jumper. I'm a newbie in the sport, and can only share my views on the safety aspect as it relates to me and the jumps I make, and have made to this date. I'm sure the "safety" factor is a whole different ball game when it comes to the more advanced jumps that the experienced guys are making.
But to answer this question you ask, in my realm of the sport right now..Consistency is what I feel makes me a "safe" jumper. I believe if I consistently do the things I know to be good, safe practices, I am being a "safe" jumper.

I also understand bad things may happen no matter how consistent I am.


Rod

rfarris@sbcglobal.net
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Re: [rfarris] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
I also understand bad things may happen no matter how consistent I am.

And how fast things can be worse if emergencyes aint calculated and "prepered" before they happen..

example.
Im doing some solos as im the only jumping in my region,and i really dont want to beg people to come and watch me..
i have arrenged by my gf that i call her as i climb,i call her as i jump and again as im safe.If i didnt call her whith in 10 mins after i said i jumped she will call "the van" to my location.
now i went out to do this jump # 30,perfect weather,perfect mind(ready to jump),call my gf before i climb.As im ready to jump i realize that i dont have my cell phone whith me.. now i have 600ft down to the car were i must have fogot it.. i really still wants to jump evrything feels ok. i know if i climb down my gf will be nervus as i didnt call whith in the time..
I deside to jump and take the lesson and never forget my cell again..
Off i go,get a blown toggle,make a rear riser stall and get an open fractur to my lower right leg.. now im stuck at the feild still aprox 600ft from the car but now by a broken leg and whith out posibilty to call for help(i did yell but no one heard me),it took 2 hours before my gf and her dad got to me.. so why´´s that?

As i didnt call my gf back she desided to give me 30 min more to climb down,and find a new cell(she thourght i might had lost it on the climb).after 30 mins she realize that somthings really wrong.. she makes the call,but cant tell the precise location were i am,they refuse to make the drive...She then calls her dad(i had her car..),he picks her up,her mom looks for her kids... they drive to my local were i am..and finds me(yelling like a .... i thourght it were the ambulance),we make the call once more.. they are now on their way.. we use the time to get rid of my gear.. it takes aprox 30 min to fix me and get me into the ambulance and then 30 min ride before i meet the first doc. and got some pain killers.

now i have ekstra light on me(to make it more easy to locate me.
morphine pills
my cell phone.. be live me now i never make a solo whith out it...

"the rescue" is now planed.my gf can now tell were i will be whith in a resonble range.(ie hanging in the tower from climbing,which site i jump to and were i plan to land)

I know the storry has been told before,but if telling it again and again can save a brother or sister for the same hell i felt i got,then its worth it...

i do see myself as a safe jumper and like to plan things,but they can go wrong.

I see thouse who dies while BASE jumping as unlucky at the time it happens.Not said that skills can/will save lives.
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Re: [meekerboy] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
Being safe only goes so far. You can do everything right and still die.

A quote from PerFlare here.

http://www.dropzone.com/...i?post=646413#646413
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Re: [Faber] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
i have arrenged by my gf that i call her as i climb,i call her as i jump and again as im safe.If i didnt call her whith in 10 mins after i said i jumped she will call "the van" to my location.

We call this the "virtual ground crew". I've done it several times myself, as has my mentor. Fortunately, none of us have had to implement "emergency procedures". Shocked
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Re: [Zennie] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
Fortunately, none of us have had to implement "emergency procedures".

No one wants to try it,but its often when stuff goes wrong that it all will colapse..

When i look back i can see the mistakes,but i didnt realized them before it were too late,if i had been whith out luck thath night(end of sept in DK are cold..)and i would have been a # on a list this day..PirateUnsure
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
I feel that it's mpossible to make a "safe" jump. If it was "safe", it would be a lot different and many of us wouldn't be doing it (already been discussed).

However, I also feel that it's possible to be dangerous and stupid. I think I'd be stupid to:

- Jump something without a good plan. I think this is the most essential factor to my survival. Before every jump I dirtdive the plan in my head which includes all the plan "B"s, "C"s, & "D"s that you think will never happen to you... it'll happen, so I plan on it and visualize myself correcting the issue and landing safely in my alternate areas. If I can stand at the exit point and visualize this and still not increase my heart rate, I feel I'm ready to cope with what Black Death may toss my way. I think it's stupid to jump without a plan and without due consideration and visualization of the consequences.

- Jump without the proper gear/rigging. There's a set of right tools for every object - these have been discovered by the people who've gone before me, I make sure I use the right combination and I ask the pros when in doubt.

- Jump without all the necessary skills for that jump. If I haven't done a gainer into a pool, why would I want to try one off of a bridge? I make certain I'm ready in every aspect before I jump something - if my survival depended on accuracy of within 15 feet after a malfunction, I'd make certain I could land within 5 feet every time out of an airplane without a toggle or both. I refuse to push my limits in the BASE enviro, instead I urge them along by staying current and taking on just one new thing per jump off of familiar objects with larger safety margins.

The stupid and dangerous will not know themselves to be so, and everyone can judge everyone else however they like. I am the only person who ever really knows if I am taking an obscene risk or demonstrating mastery of a cerain element, and this is why I love base jumping. Base is personal, only for one person, the only person who I can trust, the only person who I can control, the only person I should ever judge as being stupid or dangerous.

Know your limits, jump with a plan, use the best gear and configuration. Value all the other stuff in your life.
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Re: [sum1sneaky] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
Base is personal, only for one person, the only person who I can trust, the only person who I can control, the only person I should ever judge as being stupid or dangerous.


Nice....Wink
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Re: [sum1sneaky] Being a safe BASE jumper
> Know your limits, jump with a plan, use the best gear and configuration
sum1sneaky, I am with on all your points Cool
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Re: [Faber] Being a safe BASE jumper
People has asked me serval times to post the video of my solo acsident.
Its now uploaded to skydivemovies.com->BASE->Broken leg
it takes aprox 29mb due i had to make subtitles to it and as people want to read it,it need to be in some quallæy even as you wont see much on the video.

I havnt posted a direct link as Pilotdave ask people not to.Anyway most people in here should know how to reach itSmile

Enjoy,i didnt,but i promise.. IF i ever do somthing similar i wont forget to turn on the nightvisionSlyLaugh

Just to tell what happens:
I jump off 600ft(knowing i forgot my phone in the car on a solo),handheld not that big delay but hardopening,lost the right brake toss the left one and makes a rearriser stall in aprox 6ft. i PLF but my right foot is stuck in the ground breaking Fib/Tib in a openfracture,leaving my foot pointing 90degree to my right.I get out of the gear and replace the leg(not on video).

DONT JUMP SOLOS WHITH OUT A PHONE ON YOU!!!
Lucky me i had called my gf before i started the climb,and told her my plans.After a sertain point she tryed to call me,but as the phone were in the car i didnt respond.She called an Ambulance but they didnt trusted her.she then called her parents to look for her kids and give her weels to get out to me(i had her car).
It took 2 hours from i jumped to Lene and her dad were by my side. 2,5 hour before the ambulance finaly came.3 hours before i were at the hospital getting my first drug to kill the pain..
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Re: [Faber] Being a safe BASE jumper
Wow. Glad you are up again!
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
Hi gus

1000 BASE jumps - YES - its the person or incredible luck.

Everything in life is risky. BASE is NOT inherently unsafe. It is the decisions that a BASE jumper makes that tends to make their perception of the sport and participation within it "relatively unsafe".

i.e. you can choose to do high risk or low risk jumps. You can choose to attempt things beyond your skill, experience, & ability, you can choose to be ultra conservative and boring, you can be realistic or a dreamer, you can be patient or in a hurry, etc.

The fact is that the sport is heading towards higher risk taking with minimal / less preparation. This and the current statistics are clouding the reality of how risky BASE really is.

Just because a person dies, it does not mean the activity is dangerous. Look at the root cause. Check out the fatality lists and tell me what you see? Do you see conservatism or risk taking?

At least you are asking questions at this stage of your jump career. That is an excellent start.

Do not be afraid to ask. Do not be afraid to say no or to buck trends. Do what YOU think is right.

NO, you are not kidding yourself. People don't die on BASE jumps due to acts of God or bad luck. There is always a sequence of events that leads to each accident. Each one of these steps or sequences can directly be influenced by the jumper. YOU are responsible for your own life!!!!!!!!!
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Re: [TVPB] Being a safe BASE jumper
 

NO, you are not kidding yourself. People don't die on BASE jumps due to acts of God or bad luck. There is always a sequence of events that leads to each accident. Each one of these steps or sequences can directly be influenced by the jumper. YOU are responsible for your own life!!!!!!!!!
Responsible,yes...In complete controll of,Hell no! I can't be sure I'll go off stable, (even if I could...)
A locust in Zimbabwe may have flapped it's wings last February creating a freak gust of wind on a calm night,sending me in the direction of an object.
dot,dot,dot
You are responsible for your own decisions! But I feel it is a little arrogant to believe you are in control of your life.
When I have done everything I could to make it a safe one,I exit. The
feeling of not being in control which follows is one of my favorite things about BASESmile
~J
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
By definition, there is no safe BASE jump.

To be safe, you wouldn't BASE jump. By definition, you must BASE jump to be a BASE jumper.

The rule for accidents is the rule of threes. Bad conditions multiply. Let's say you go to a jump and something's not right and you say "no biggie, it probably won't matter." Well, by the time you do this three times in a row, you've set yourself up for an accident.

Also, sometimes when things are going really bad, frequently the best thing to do is to accept it and go with it. People get killed or badly hurt trying to avoid the inevitable. For example, flipping your car trying to avoid a moderate crash.

Our skills come through when things go the crap. This is where mental preparation is essential. Think of all the worst cases and come up with as simple a plan as possible for dealing with these situations.

However, I have noticed that the best BASE jumpers have something physiologically superior to the average BASE jumper. And that may either be the luck of the draw, a tolerance for adrenaline, or the mental ability to harness fear into something useful.
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Re: [FIREFLYR] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
You are responsible for your own decisions! But I feel it is a little arrogant to believe you are in control of your life.

Well put! Our decisions are usualy based on incomplete and unreliable information. At best we are managing risks, at worst we are rolling the dice. It is a lot of fun, but having crooked dice really helps in the end Wink

bsbd!

Yuri.
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Re: [460] Being a safe BASE jumper
 
However, I have noticed that the best BASE jumpers have something physiologically superior to the average BASE jumper. And that may either be the luck of the draw, a tolerance for adrenaline, or the mental ability to harness fear into something useful.
If you have time to panic ,you have to to do something more productive!Wink
Word!
~J
-Edited because I thought I was reading one of Fabers' postsTongue
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Re: [FIREFLYR] Being a safe BASE jumper
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Re: [TVPB] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
...It is the decisions that a BASE jumper makes that tends to make their perception of the sport and participation within it "relatively unsafe"....

>>That is so true. It's almost like as you grow in the sport, and things are go well time and time again, it seems to erode your judgement to the point where you think you can get away with anything.

>>Your confidence (or hubris) grows till you're trying things that you look back on after reality has smashed you apart and go "What the hell was I thinking?". It seems to me that in BASE, the biggest threat to your life you face is you.
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
In reply to:
Is it just a statistical blip when someone survives 1000 BASE jumps or does it tell you something about that person?

Most problems can be avoided - being prudent about winds, choosing objects more tolerant of opening heading, picking objects with landing areas within your comfort zone, having good body position, packing carefully and consistently, choosing the right gear, maintaining your gear, staying current so you maximize the chances of actually doing all that.

Sometimes things happen - you open off heading, you loose a toggle, winds at altitude don't match those on the ground or exit point. You can often deal with it. Having a plan beforehand makes that more likely.

People make mistakes so sometimes we do the wrong thing.

Sometimes random things happen that you can't deal with.

Most of it's the person, some of it's luck.
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Re: [rfarris] Being a safe BASE jumper
read ratiocination
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
I started this thread over a year ago (check the date of the first post), before I started jumping, so it's quite interesting to read it back now that I have a couple of jumps.

I started jumping on the premise that I could have a direct and significant influence on my odds of survival in this sport. 61 jumps on and largely I still believe that's the case. What I think I realise better now than I did a year ago is that being a safe jumper may not be enough to save you. I had a friend who I considered a real role model in the considered and thoughtful way he approached and performed his jumps - and it didn't save him Frown.

Gus
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Re: [outrager] Being a safe BASE jumper
Hi Yuri

Perhaps my comment was arrogant. Wink
That happens when the list of the dearly departed increases too quickly and you want it to slow down.

"Our decisions are usualy based on incomplete and unreliable information"

Your comment above sums it up. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of the information is available (not all of course) and that many of us choose not to find that information and assimilate it into our risk management strategies.

I agree, there are many factors that affect our lives that we can't control. But there are heaps that people don't try to control too. I would like to see jumpers control as many factors as possible whilst at the same time having fun, acheiving goals, etc.

p.s. and yes, you are correct, we all love rolling the dice occassionally.

CYA up there somewhere.
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Re: [TVPB] Being a safe BASE jumper
In my opinion, the way to best deal with approximating this risk is to stand down when you can see enough variables that the situation has an outcome variability outside your personal risk envelope.

In other words, there comes a time when the "I don't know" is big enough that I'm just going to walk away. That's my last, best and only way to have 100% control of the outcome.
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Re: [TomAiello] Being a safe BASE jumper
Excellent response Tom

The trick is to be honest when you reach this point. Or to attain a sufficient level of knowledge so that you can make these decisions.

Smile
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Re: [gus] Being a safe BASE jumper
Ahhhh....My favourite subject. Anyway, my 2 cents worth from the A.B.A. website.
-------------------------------------------------------
B.A.S.E. jumping is as safe or as dangerous as any other activity humans participate in.

In fact for the reasons I will outline one could argue that B.A.S.E. jumping is inherently safe!

Any activity, to be safely conducted, requires that the participant:

1. has received sufficient:

* information,
* instruction,
* training and
* supervision.



2. Participates in the activity at a venue that is:

* graded, and
* within the demonstrated ability of the participant.



3. Uses only B.A.S.E. specific equipment.

4. Uses equipment configured correctly for the particular jump.

5. Participates only when the environmental conditions are suitable, E.g; wind, rain, LZ clear etc.

6. Training has occured progresively, e.g:

* a controlled 'low level of risk' environment,(E.g: For B.A.S.E. jumping: Pylonless bridge into water.)
* a controlled simulated higher risk environment,(For B.A.S.E. jumping: Employ object avoidence and other drills from pylonless bridge.), and
* an environment commensurate with the jumpers skill and ability.


B.A.S.E. equipment and techniques are different to regular skydiving and jumpers minimise the "real risk" by using only the latest B.A.S.E. specific equipment and up-to-date training.

Jumpers mentored by persons that by concensus have been deemed competent by the Australian B.A.S.E. community are given information, instruction, training and supervision to enable that student to be deemed a competent jumper.

A high level of "perceived risk" will always follow this sport, but, to the majority of the long term participants it is a safe sport.

When we look at professional racing car teams they are 'inherently safe.' that is the risk can be turned up to suit the racers. e.g: the cars despite appearances are not your standard car that are available to us.

1. These cars are designed with safety in mind a long time before the first bolt is purchased.

2. Highly qualified people pilot these machines.

3. They are raced around tracks that are purpose built and free of obstacles such as trees and power poles etc.

From this 'inherently safe' starting point we then turn up the risk by introducing onto the track:

a. other cars,

b. lessor skilled drivers,

c. permission to drive in inclement weather.

It is very similar in B.A.S.E. in that it would not be inherently safe if we were to say "I want to jump off a 300' cliff. I might need some padding for that."

Next person comes along and says "instead of padding, which didn't work, I'll use a parachute!"

Another person comes along and etc, etc.

As in the racing car analogy we start with:

1. a highly evolved B.A.S.E. specific canopy and container,

2. a very competant skydiver that understands how and why a canopy behaves the way it does given the variables it experiences during flight,

3. an extremly capable operator of the parachute that can position the canopy with precision in the tightest of landing areas.

We as jumpers, inadvertantly sometimes, add the risk by exersising poor judgement by jumping in less that perfect conditions, not configuring our equipment optimally and/or not performing the correct drills in a timely manner when required. The latter point is usually, but not always, an indicator that we were attempting a jump beyond our level of ability.

So as long as the first three points raised are followed one can see that it is an 'inherently Safe' activity to start with. We then add the risk.

On the other side of the coin are activities that are incredibly dangerous, however, have become socially acceptable.

These activities include:
driving a car, (600+ deaths a year in Australia)
smoking and drinking, (22000+ deaths per year in Australia)
rock fishing,(50+ deaths per year in Australia)
illicit drug consumption, (600+ deaths per year in Australia)
And the list goes on....and on....and on.

O.K.....But, more people drive than B.A.S.E. jump!? How can you compare them?

Answer - It's all about REAL RISK and PERCEIVED RISK.

People causing car crashes that result in fatalities do so knowing that people crash and die but, think it will never happen to them as they have either superior driving skills and/or a superior vehicle and/or driving on a familiar section of road or a section of road they believe is within their ability.

Of course, because they haven't either superior driving skills and/or a superior handling car and/or have the ability/equipment to overcome the
environmental demands of the driving surface they crash and die or kill someone else.

On the other hand, the vast majority of B.A.S.E. jumpers understand the ramifications of her/his actions and ensure they apply sound judgement to each and every jump they decide is within their ability. They understand the concept of real and perceived risk and can aportion it commensurate within the existing range of variables.

In the exceptionally rare occaisions, a minority of sound jumpers may have a lapse in judgement and kill or injure themselves. This is also known as "The Darwin Theory."

Idiot jumpers were going to die that day whether they were B.A.S.E. jumping, driving a car or rock fishing etc anyway.

It's all about "cause and effect."

So..When put into perspective B.A.S.E. jumping to a trained jumper is a relatively SAFE activity.