Basejumper.com - archive

I just had an interesting conversation with someone at Axa Travel Insurance. On their website it lists BASE jumping as one of the activities which can be covered if you purchase their Hazardous Sports and Activities Cover, this is backed up by the text version of their policy document (follow the "Policy Details" link, it's in "General Exclusions"). However, the pdf version explicitly excludes BASE jumping from the Hazardous Sports and Activities Cover.
So I called them and according to the woman I spoke to (who checked with her team leader) BASE jumping is definately not included and there is no way it can be included. The only suggestion she had was to try a high street broker who may be willing to 'take on the higher risk'.

Gus

Thats interesting. I also have AXA Travel Insurance and I took the precaution of phoning them also and they said I was covered. This was back in March.

I will phone again and ask them to clariffy and to explain why there is a difference.

Meeker

I took their cover out in July. Having seen the top post I called them last week and was told that the website was wrong and they didn't cover BASE. I suggested that it was a bit late telling me now!!!

One of their technical people called me today and said as its their mistake I am covered until the end of the policy's term - ie next July - but after that, look elsewhere.

I pointed out that there might be a few of us who took out cover through the website without ever phoning - they are thinking of writing to all hazardous sports cover policy holders.

Anyway, anyone else who has already taken their cover out and is now worrying, contact "'tasha" (I think - I'm crap at names) at their call centre and see if you can get the same deal.

As this may be the last year any of us get cover I think we should aim to make the most of it!

Jules

I just phoned AXA and they have said that their underwriters will cover me also for the duration of this policy and then it will expire. Tasha who works there is the person to speak to. She asked how many others there are with policies!. I think she is worried. Also, she said she would send out a letter confirming that I was covered. I would suggest everyone else with a policy phones her up.

Meeker

I just got phoned back again by Tasha stating that discussions have been held with higher management and all people except myself and Gus are no longer insured for Base jumping. I think the policies are not void, but they have changed the terms and conditions.

Further, they are changing the websites quickly to reflect this. To my knowledge this is illegal because if they have advertised this on any online documents / websites and then not included this in the policy document, then this is Misrepresentation and inducing a person to enter into a contract falsely.

Anyway, Tasha asks not to be requested specifcally for this issue but to speak to any of her team at AXA on 08703662100.

Lastly, to protect those of you not covered, try getting a copy of the terms and conditions stating you were covered.

Just for absolute clarity: I don't have a current policy with Axa, the reason I phoned them is that I'm trying to take a BASE friendly one out.


I'd be really interested to hear from any legal bods on this. My suspicion is that your policy is defined by the policy document that they physically send to you and that you have a grace period in which you can cancel the policy if you're not happy. When I took out a single trip policy in August BASE was included on the website but excluded in the policy document they sent me - because I bought the policy for a skydiving holiday I didn't really pay much attention to the discrepancy.

Gus

I'd be inclined to agree with you Gus. Although it's lax (at best) and sneaky (at worst) of them to change their official T's & C's but not reflect them on their website, I guess the onus is on the customer to check the small print on the paper work they receive. Inaccurate websites can not be relied upon; just look at all the stories of ridiculously mispriced electronic items "sold" on websites that weren't honoured

What we need is the previous Travel Insurance Policy Booklet. The current one has a code in the front page: APLD017/P (06/03) (2320). I don't know if I'm reading too much into that but it makes me think that this version was issued in June 2003. Does anyone have a copy of the previous version in which it said,


rather than generally excluding it in item 8.

I'm not a policy holder with AXA (still stuck with HB), so I can't really fight this, but I am VERY interested. Please, whoever has a policy with them but has been excluded, please don't let them get away with it!

I had a chat with my brother who is a lawyer and he says that even though it was not in the website, it is good grounds for Misrepresentation. Further, he is a lawyer for the Office of Fair Trading and deals with organisations trying using unfair competitive practices such as this.

I got my policy in August, have phoned AXA and hey have fobbed me off and told me to complain in writing :(

Jules and Meeker can you email me your full names so I can use the "treating me differently" arguement as well please. unclecharlie@hotmail.com

I need to work on my phone shouting skills!!

jb

I recognize that e-mail i think, GL ?

I've just checked my policy booklet and BASE is excluded, unless I've "paid the appropriate additional premium to include cover under the Hazardous Activities Extension as shown in the schedule".

So I checked my schedule and it says "Hazardous Sports and Activities Extension: Included"

Now even cynical me is thinking: I'm covered. I took my policy out on 13th March 2003 and the code on the back is D549 03/02.

Anyway, if James or Craig or anyone else would like to borrow my policy book I'd be more than happy. Only thing is I'd want it back- sounds like it could be quite valuable.

I'd recommend making a photocopy of the full booklet, then lending out the copy. Heck, I'd recommend scanning it and posting it (at least the relevant sections) here, or somewhere else on-line.

I wonder if anyone will need to use the coverage--and either get screwed or start into a nasty lawsuit.

for what its worth, I downloaded the relevant page of their website before they changed it - anyone want a copy?

I am still waiting for the letter I was promised confirming my cover for the rest of this year......

Jules

Is it the PDF or the HTML? Only the PDF is valuable since the HTML is a lot easier to change. I'll have the PDF if you have it.

only the HTML - would you expect anything useful from me? If only you replied to my questions as quickly.........

Jules

I thought I'd found one today. Leading Edge Travel Insurance lists BASE jumping (along with bob sleighing, demolition derby, ice hockey, ski acrobatics, ski jumping, ski racing, toboganning) as a 'category 4' activity, which attracts a pretty heft premium but at least (I thought) I could get some insurance. Suprise, suprise, when I emailed them for confirmation and a quote I got:


The search continues.

Gus

So the insurance companies confirm what we've known all along: BASE jumping is the original 'Extreme Sport'



311

edit to add: I see that bowling and croquet are covered... and hang gliding is listed as category 2 activity. Shaking head... insurance companies... gotta love 'em

psst dont tell my incurance compagny,they only think its too dangerus in US,and wont cover there.will only pay if i get disabled,not if i die(sad to my kids if so should happen).
How ever it only cost me 140£a year and will cover up to 50000£
sorry to say you´ll need to live in DK to get this agreement

I've purchased insurance through Speciality Risk International (http://www.specialtyrisk.com) before. Their Liaison International plan has a Hazardous Sports Coverage option that includes parachuting.

Concerned about whether BASE was excluded in some fine print, I shot them an email a while back and asked. I specifically asked if BASE jumping was included and the reply was a fairly simple "All parachuting activities are included if the Hazardous Sport Coverage option is purchased".

Anyway, it is supposed to be available for U.S. residents traveling abroad, as well as non-U.S. citizens visiting the U.S. So, it might be worth looking into if you're headed this direction...

If anyone inquires with them and gets and answer that BASE jumping is not covered, please let me know!

C-ya!

Mark

Found a promising link on a Brit BASE web site:

http://www.annual-insurance.com/...&page=index.html

Had a quick look through the policy and didn't find any reason to doubt they'll cover BASE.

Thought that since you're already searching you wouldn't mind checking them out.

This looks really good, I will email them as well and explicitly ask about BASE. Thanks Mark.

Gus

I'm getting serious policy document fatigue!

There's no explicit mention of BASE, just "parachute jumping" as part of their "category 4 hazardous sports and leisure activities".
The bit which would worry me is this exclusion:


Gus

contacted Annual Insurance and got

"This is only for international sky diving and parachuting and not base jumping."

my question had "intentional" rather than "international" - aren't spell checkers great!

I used to have American Express travel insurance with their hazardous activites cover. This also mentioned 'parachuting' rather than skydiving but I didn't ask for clarification as I had yet to start BASE....might be worth checking them out again.

Still no letter from AXA.....


Jules

It seems to me that if you want insuring when BASE jumping then to some extent you're missing the point.

A general travel insurance document will cover you when ze Germans steal your camera but hoping that you can decrease the risk involved in your life when you huck yourself off a cliff is holding too much hope IMHO.

Be careful. It's dangerous out there and the bean counters know it.

Best wishes,

Skin.

If I had legal insurance I would use it to pay the lawyers when I get busted - I wouldn't expect it to repel policemen when I waved it at them.

I want travel insurance because I'm hoping that when I have an accident I won't have to spend the rest of my life paying the medical bills for being sewn back together. I will of course shove the policy document down my trousers as a bit of extra padding

Jules

Here's my email conversation with Speciality Risk:





Gus

Would you be willing to ask them if a misdemeanor jump would be covered? There are actually quite a few jumps that can be done with misdemeanor trespass, but not felony (or is that distinction not made in UK law?).

I'm happy to ask, the person I've been emailing has been really helpful so I don't think they'll mind. What's the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony?


I have no idea.

Gus

In U.S. law, there are two big divisions in the classification of crimes (and several smaller divisions, which vary from state to state).

The legal dictionary at law.com defines felony:


and misdemeanor:


Most BASE busts have been prosecuted as either trespass or disturbing the peace, both of which are misdemeanors.

Edit to add: The fact that Specialty Risk is in Indianapolis (USA) makes me think they are conversant with the difference, and are using the term "felony" precisely in their correspondence with you. It's often possible in U.S. jurisdictions to plea bargain (admit guilt to a lesser charge) if you hire an attorney (to show the prosecutors that you are serious about fighting the charges), which might drop any felony charges to a misdemeanor--obviously this would be something to consider of your insurance would pay out for misdemeanors but not felonies.

I was using Specialty Risk for my visits to lands where BASE jumping is accepted. I figured having a $1 million policy might smooth things over if I needed the assistance of a helicopter - especially in a really sensitive area like LB.

Exclusion #4 in their brochure (http://www.specialtyrisk.com/brochure/Li-onln.htm) only mentions that a felony offense is excluded. Interesting...

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but UK law is split into Civil and Criminal. From http://www.consumereducation.org.uk/...h/legalrights/04.htm



As far as I know, trespass is a Civil offence, but breaking and entering or damage when accessing an object is Criminal. Endangerment or Nusiance are Criminal too but could be more difficult to prove. Some objects, such as Spans have by-laws which makes it a criminal offence to access them without permission.

US law also makes the civil-criminal distinction.

Trespass can be either (I believe this is also the case in English law) civil or criminal.

In other words, the property owner can take legal action to remove you (or prevent you from entering) his property or the government can begin criminal proceedings. Either one (and sometimes both)--but for BASE the more common is the criminal trespass (as a misdemeanor) case. Criminal trespass commonly results in fines (I know of one case in which a jumper plea bargained down to a $50 criminal trespass ticket).

Here is my latest conversation with Speciality Risk:



Gus

 
Just to say that I've just taken out a policy with M+S insurance services (marks and spencer for those across the pond).

Decided to book "hazardous activity" insurance for skydiving and was asked if I wish to add any specific items - I queried what COULD be added and was told "BASE JUMPING" amongst other things - suffice to say I signed up for an annual worldwide multi-trip policy with no excess INCLUDING BASE for the grand some of £90 ...

Good old M+S !!!!

Now I just need to do my FJC !!!

(I bet they change the policy once everyone phones in !!!!)

Awesome!

Thanks dude, I've just taken one out as well. The guy I spoke to said "Isn't that jumping off clifs? You're mad!".

My one concern is that the policy is underwritten by our old friends at Axa but I got him to confirm that BASE will be explicitly listed on my policy document so it should be ok.

Gus

I was concerned by it being underwritten by AXA. Just tried with them and was told BASE jumping wasn't covered due to it "being illegal" and "no one would cover it". So Gus, check your paper-work when you receive it. If it does state BASE jumping then you've been lucky, although I wonder if the cooling off period works both ways i.e. for the issuer also. If not, you may be sending your policy back. Sorry if this has spoilt it for anyone...

 
I hope that they have to honour it if it's listed on the policy ... I'm not sure about the cooling off period though ...

We'll have to see what comes in the post - only one downside is that I'm off to the US at 5am tomorrow and will not be able to check the paperwork

But I knew that they'd probably change the policy once people started to query it !!!!

To be honest I was just surprised that it was OFFERED TO ME (when I asked for their list of hazardous sports) - rather than me asking about it !!!

By the way - does anyone know where I can insure my rig for more than the £300 limit that most places seem to charge per single item (household insurance is no good for me as I don't have a house at the moment - I sold it to go jumping !!!)

Got a letter on Friday from AXA confirming cover until
end of policy in 2004.

peace, james

I got my stuff through the post over the weekend, the policy schedule reads:


Gus

FANTASTIC - looks like it's going be my week (Lovely BA stewardess bumped me up out of economy after my vid screen didn't work properly !!!)

All I need now is for a lottery win and my FJC !!!

I'm glad that Gus managed to get his cover too ....

Off to NZ via LA today - long flight which I'm not looking forward to !!!

Lets see if my luck holds again with Qantas !!!