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Hello there,
The present post is to inform you that last week I did a SL jump with the SL/break cord with "SL-carry-with-you" set up. Perhaps I have been the first to use it, I dunno, for sure I have been the first in Italy to do it. Anyway, this post is NOT to brag about who is first to do what, but to share information.
One of our local A, horizontal handrail. I manufactured a "SL-carry-with-you" exactly as per the photo "sling.jpg" in the attachment, with the exceptions: 1) the Static Line is NOT made from spectra (or any other canopy line) but is made from a 4 mm dyneema climbing rope, whose sheath is quite hard/robust and the "kit" itself is quite stiff; 2) I did not have the 3 loops "sticked into themselves and sewn" but rather I did 3 knots (I dunno the name, it is a very good knot used in sailing...).
The set up with break cord is exactly as per the "Static2.jpg" attachment.
I had the "branch-attached-to-bridle" of the kit to stay on the upper side with respect to horizontal handrail: the purpose of this being is that once you break the break cord, the whip stroke you have as a result is towards "UP", so not hitting anything along the way. If I had the "branch-attached-to-bridle" of the kit on the lower side, for sure in the whip stroke it would have hit any part of the steel structure below, not that this would mean automatically entanglement, but, you know, just in case... being in the upper side, it simply CANNOT hit anything.
My jumping mate, who witnessed the deployment (no, he did not have his videocamera at this stage... ) did NOT notice anything strange.
Deployment was clean as usual and I did NOT leave anything on the structure , diferently from #726, who left his SL onto the structure (we will recover it next time)
My next step is to have my rigger to manufacture the "SL-carry-with-you" with the SAME dyneema rope as I have now but having the 3 loops done with the "sticked into themselves and sewn" technique and NOT with my very good knots, which are way bulkier than the sewn loops....
I will keep you informed on the setup!!!

could you post some info about how long your devise is at different places?
If not,could you mail me?(we talked earlyer).

Any thourghts about if the devise get stuck on the rail(thinking of having a ekstra breakcord on as suggested at Blinc),would it have any influence at offheadding,having 2 pulls (first normal SL and then "breakaway"from the devise)?

sorry if i dont explain good enough.

And how do you create break cord sling. From my climber's point of view it's delicate job.

Hey a guys
Yeah i still love and jump this setup.(smaal storry and a thourght)

Yeasterday i went to my 150ft A,Wind and moon were perfect.
I climbed my A,at the platform i need to get my gear on then climb further 4-5 ft up inside the A,standing in the cornor holding the balance whith my feets i can just hook on my Carry on SL.At this place idont have much room to get out but its the only way unless i want to freefall it(which i dont due the LZ,and lack of balls).
The bridel is in the way as I climb out,its alway here even as its "wrappped up" whith a rubberband.
As i finaly get out on the outside of the A i need to place my foot on a stinger a like tranmitter thing(bar to hold it),and place my foot in the cross bar on the A it self,theres no room to stand up right there(theres nothing to hold on),so im hanging in my arms away from the A by my torso.The PC caught slightly the Air,its just outside my face to my right.

Now its time "3 2 1 C Ya" im off,wow that ground is rushing towards me will that canopy ever crak open?
"Bang" its there on toogle out fly the point below the exit point were i dont want to land,flying half brake all the way i know i might have a rugh landing but its just a feild and i have the full batel gear on.Im landed,only tipped my right knee and the pad had now mud on it. im all good.Call my phone crew and tell im alright.

Did i tell i love theese kind of jumps?

Anyway thinking back the fall and the SL fellt as it usaly does. canopy on headding,time to pop toogles and fly some distance,all in all a regular jump...

Untill i get home and get the gear out.. i have lost my carry on SL, all i have inside my gear is 2 pieces of breakcord and the rapid link i usaly use aswell."DAMNIT" i had a Carry on SL cut away/hang up and didnt notice it..

Next day(today i went back whith my stills cam(you know the young phothografer just walking arround weired places for no reasson) I brourght my 300mm tele but cant see the carry on SL at the exit point,it aint up there...

I walk my landing patern which also is inside the windsector ,and find my carry on SL near the place i landed.
Makes me wonder,it couldnt fly/fall that long itself as it wasnt that windy as i jumped.
Looking at the rapied link theres on it it has some marks which i guess is were it has snagged as i jumped.
It seems to me that as i jumped the carry on SL has snagged the structure enough to cause the break of my "cut away cord" but not enough to actualy stay up there.

I feel really pleaces that i found my Carry on SL today as im not packed and the wind is too hard to have a go tonite which spare me for a total of 300ft climb

Just a happy storry on this device.

Has to add that i have inspected my gear and the preformance of the carry on SL made sure that neither i or my gear has been harmed.

I'm confused. What broke to separate the carry with you SL from the bridle? It sounds like you found it in one piece.

Dude 150' and you did not FF Loser

I don't even go to the bathroom without my CWY S/L, it's that good

i use a peice of break cord to attach the carry on to my Bridel,that whay if i have a "hang up" (the SL some how entangle whith the object and hold on so i could rip my centercell,then the brakcord will brake leaveing the SL up there(the idea) leaving me under a canopy that hasnt been ripped appart

the 150 ft is to LZ its more likely 135ft or so to impact at this small dirt hill just below exit point

Okay. Got it now.

just to let people know
This link is Andreas pic from previus in this tread
http://www.dropzone.com/...nt;postatt_id=11433;

instead of conecting the carry on directly to my bridel i use a peice of breackcord.

I do belive Andrea is doing the same theese days?

Dexter?

> I do belive Andrea is doing the same theese days?
Yes, indeed, that's what I am still doing.
My mates (...finally...) realized how "good" is the CWY that they commissioned one for each of them to a local rigger. Actually, what they commissioned are fast C.W.Y.'s, which is a version of C.W.Y. with a small carabineer that allows to rig same fast CWY on exit point in a matter of seconds.

exactly, i use less time to hook up my Carry on SL at the exit point than it takes me to tie the knots..

I use rapid links through

> I use rapid links through
Yes, of course rapid links are very good for the purpose.
Using rapid links, though, can have the following 2 disadvantages:
1) being "wide open without any retention" (once open) you could lose them while operating in a very dark environment
2) the edge of threaded part of the screw is razor sharp and could tend to cut the textile part of CWY upon continuous use

You can help this by opening the link in advance, and covering the sharp edge with electrical tape. Once you've got everything in place and ready to screw down, remove the tape and close the link.

> You can help this by opening the link in advance, and covering the sharp edge with electrical tape. Once you've got everything in place and ready to screw down, remove the tape and close the link.
Yes indeed. And you can avoid all the above using "my" special small carabineer (bought in a nautical shop), that, in addition, has got a small "grommet" to which is sewn a part of the fast CWY, making impossible to lose it.

I guess great minds think alike

Here is the set up I've been using. Instead of the fancy-nautical-store-carabineer I got the super-non-fancy-made-in-china-Walmart verity

Todd Shoebotham (now of Apex) showed me those a while back. I think he started using them sometime in the early 90's.

Hi Nick!
Of course, in this matter there is no "must" and no "standard". Your China carabineer looks really nice.
I post here as follows of the setup of my fast CWY (with no break cord loops, I am afraid, but now it is clear where they must go ).

why have you made your carry on from 2 peices that you close together whith the carabiner? i dont see the reasson for that?


Ill upload stills of my setup in a few mins

You don't worry about those piece of junk fake carabiners breaking before the breakcord does. This might bring up the whole debate about 80lbs. vs. 160lbs. needed to break the breakcord. 160lbs. on those junk 'biners kind of scares me.

SL1 Shows my Carry on SL

SL2 Shows my Carry on sl as i bring it hooked to the bridel whith the big rapidlink

SL3 shows how i connect my carry on SL to the object. both rapidlinks will be conected to the attacchment point of my bridel.

NOTE: i ONLY use the large rapid links on my setup i have used different types to better explain here.

As i get to the exit point i simply take mt carry on SL arround the ancor point,open the rapidlink conects it to the breakcord and the bridel,there you go ready to jump.

I think ill look after Andreas carabiner they looks cool for 1 hand hook ups on difficlut places.

i dont even belive my small rapid links will break(need too much force) however im not testing it so i use them big onces at this point

I think a rapid link would be fine that wouldn't scare me but that wal-mart junk does.

One disadvantage to using a carabiner instead of a rapid link would be that after the main breakcord breaks and the bridle is pulling the CWY SL off the object there is a possibility of the carabiner hitting something on the object hard enough to open the gate and catch itself on the object. I guess this is what the second bit of breakcord is for but still...

> why have you made your carry on from 2 pieces that you close together whith the carabiner? i dont see the reasson for that?
And where else would you put the carabineer?!?!?!?
I definitely DO NOT want to have the carabineer close to the structure!!!!!

> One disadvantage to using a carabiner instead of a rapid link would be that after the main breakcord breaks and the bridle is pulling the CWY SL off the object there is a possibility of the carabiner hitting something on the object hard enough to open the gate and catch itself on the object.
Not exactly.
First: My "small carabineer" is just the size of a connector link
Second: My "small carabineer" is on the main branch side that is directly connected to the secondary branch, so the whip stroke is such that only the textile part of fast CWY hits/goes around handrail, the "small carabineer" part is already off the structure; and, in case in "any case" the small carabineer hits the structure someway somehow, that's what the connection via second break loop cord is there for.

What are you calling junk? I payed a whole buck and 99 for a set of three

Dude, if it breaks it's 0.66! As for strength...so far so good

Think about it. Andrea's carabiners is really, really nice but if he loses it, he has to go to the very special nautical store that probably it is located 200 miles away. He lives in Italy and gas is 4 times as expensive. Then they pay something like 10c/mile of tow fees. Then the piece itself...probably you need to mortgage your house for that little cute SS carabiners!

If I break or lose one I got two more! If I break or lose all of them, I go to Wal-mart and get a whole new set for 1.99 pus shipping and handling and applicable taxes and I'm set for a whole season!

My concern wasn't the price. If the carabiner breaks before the breakcord does (because it's a piece of junk! ) and didn't produce enough force to open the container and extract the canopy then you'll be relying on your PC to do the work.

Ok I've just stopped to think about that again and I'm realizing that the breakcord doesn't see much force until the canopy is already at line stretch huh?

How much force do you think is required to open the container and extract the canopy to line stretch?

Ok Russel I'll buy a better one


I calculated about 15 LBS.

Ok, then forget it. My comments were useless.

Although I'd say you should be shot if you bought that thing at Wally-Mart. You probably lost at LEAST 50 IQ points just driving into the parking lot!

No they are not. I might buy a better one, so in case I have to SL you, you won't bitch


Damn! I go to Wally-World almost daily! No wonder why I do rigging with their products

Ok, there's NO way I'm letting you EVER set up a static line or anything else for me then!

I actually measured that with a spring scale and a video camera once a long, long time ago. I did several test drops, and as I recall you're pretty close for a pin rig, but the velcro took noticeably more. For pin rigs, the spike in the force required was when the canopy took load, but the spike for shrivel flap removal was actually greater for the velcro rig.

I might as well post my idea of the subject and see what you guys think about it. I must underline that this system HAS NOT BEEN JUMPED by me, it is purely a prototype built (at the moment) for experimental purposes only. I've been reading these posts about different CWY SL setups and based on them I started to figure out my own setup, starting out from couple basic principles :
- The setup must be fast to use so it should be possible to tie the breakcords before one goes to the object. This obviously is achieved only by usage of carabiner or a rapid link.
- System should have secondary breakcord in case the SL hangs to the object
- System should be kept as simple as possible

And this is what I came up. :) In the pictures there is no PC because I wanted to focus only to the SL system itself. When using this system I always intend to use PC. Also in these pictures breakcords are simulated by pull up cords (blue simulating the primary breakcord and red simulating the backup breakcord), in real life one should always naturally use breakcord built for this purpose.

Please comment freely what you think about it : http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/...ari/sl/sl_parts.html

Maretus,good that your trying to find better ways i like your idea of thinking.

First off i think if you have 2 peices you have a better chance to do somthing stupied(not as simpel as it can be)

Im not sure i see your setup right but the way i see it(sorry if i see it wrong) its easy for you to get a "cut away" as of the system you have build.

Did you see the above stills?
i set up my gear as i have done packing,all i havve to do is to open the rapid link or carabiner and close it again,then jump.
I attach the setup on 2 different places on my bridel(same attachment point) that way first load WILL go to my main break cord,in case of a hang up first then my second breakcord will be effected.

As on your setup the cut away cord ofcourse brings the SL whith me down.

Perhaps i look wrong at your setup as im used to my own.

You might be right there, a one piece system would be simpler and thus maybe more foolproof.


Could you explain that a little more, I did not quite get what you meant by "getting cut away" ?


Did you mean the setup described here http://www.dropzone.com/...nt;postatt_id=11433; ? So you attach that with the backup breakcord to the bridle from the "bottom" of the SL device ? Where do you place the rapid link or the carabiner ? To the upper end of the SL ?

Thanks for your thoughts on it bro, that's directly what I asked. :)

I did an Sl with a walmart issued carabiner. Now I have proof that they will break, but still brought the canopy to line stretch.

The Camp Nano is a good alternative. Almost as small and almost as light, but full strength.
http://www.rei.com/...amp;mr:referralID=NA

Why?

Agreed.... Why?

Now, I have done an SL with a plastic grocery bag, but it was from 300ft and I still used a 46" PC

Why indeed ?

Size 3½ stainless rapide links cost $3.70 at Paragear and are very good for the job.
Added with the knowledge, that there is virtually no chance that it would open by mistake and cause a premature or snag that way.

F the Finns

/Antti

I couldn't find the biner that I normally use, and the jump was from 300,' so I wasn't really worried about it. I guess I could have tied directly to the object, but I was a little curious, after reading this thread, whether my cheap little biner would hold up to a loop of break chord. It didn't, but it got the job done.

Hell, you don't even need break cord then. Just use walmart biners. I bet if you zoomed in on that biner it says NOT LOAD BEARING on it...lol

The point is, you don't need it to bear load. You just need it to pull your canopy out. After that, you want something to break.

Who cares if it's the break cord, the static line, or the biner?

Yah, I understand. I was joking about how shitty the biner was.

You might also want to consider that if your using a biner, it's probably because you want to pre-rig your break cord and still have a quick reliable attachment, and using a piece of shit probably isn't a good idea.

If the biner breaks and the break cord doesn't, I'm sure that's not what your going for, otherwise you wouldn't have used the break cord. Having a biner, what ever rope you used for your static line and the break cord, all attached somewhere along your bridle, probably isn't going to have to much effect on your canopy, but it's still just fucking stupid if it can be avoided.

The few times I've used a biner in a static line setup, it was only so someone else could quickly and easily remove the evidence and leave.

Another quick easy static line setup I figured out that allows you to pre-rig the break cord, is make a big lasso and larks head it around something by wrapping it around and then stepping through the lasso, just like you're a pilot chute. Leaves a little more length in the static line, which might be undesirable, but I just used less bridle and was satisfied.

I'm in a hurry and don't have time to proof read, hopefully that makes sense.

I didn't care which broke, it was a shitty biner that I didn't intend on using again. I did an SL last night from 240' and I used a much better biner that screws shut, because I do intend on reusing it.


I used no rope. What effect on the canopy? What did I not try to avoid that's just fucking stupid?