Basejumper.com - archive

This past week, we were jumping a large TV tower (2000'), with an elevator. There were five of us, ranging from just over 100 jumps to just under 1000, and we encountered various other jumpers from time to time, as we were touring a very crowded bit of the BASE world.

Anyway, we had four jumpers on the elevator, and were all set to get to altitude, and put the elevator to bed before the sun rose, then wait for the light and make a dawn load.

As the elevator reached 1000' or so, two canopies opened pretty much right in front of it--at around 800'.

They were pretty logo canopies, apparently sponsored by a major snowboarding company (I don't snowboard, but I think that's what "Burton" makes).

These two pretty canopies were opening in the upwind sector of the tower, and being blown back into the tower and the guy wires. The jumpers had exited directly into a 30 mph headwind, turning a super safe, easy object into an object strike nightmare. Obviously, they missed Outrager's BLiNC post on Jumping Towers in Wind (he posts as "Yuri" over there).

The first jumper fought the wind a bit, and pretty much floated straight down, landing just in front of the guy wires.

The second jumper had a 90 degree off-heading, and as he struggled to turn his canopy, he was blown between the guy wires of the tower.

It was pure, dumb luck that he survived. I was amazed that he hadn't struck the wires, and gotten to ride them 700' to the ground, thereby injuring (truthfully, probably killing) himself, and likely putting our lovely little elevator off limits for quite some time.

From my vantage point (on the ground, bedding down the elevator), I saw the openings, and the resultant wind-driven canopy flights.

A bit worried, I hurried over to talk to the jumpers (who I did not know).

A bit of our dialogue:
So, I get home, make a few phone calls and figure out who the jumpers were. I am informed, quite curtly, that they were perfectly safe, and I ought to mind my own business.

Oh, well. I guess I'll go quietly mind my business, then.

Yeah,
it sucks Tom, but some people....me especially can't take a hint. Why take advice when accidents are so much funner?
I am talking shit, as I think taking headwinds are STUPID, but who am I to say?
To each their own, right?
Thank you for trying to talk to these BASE'rs. But, not all BASE'rs are so willing to accept input or thought from another viewpoint.
I may have disregarded some input, but I may have heeded some.
Who knows. Only the jumper. To each his own, right?
Something about burning sites (inserted here)
and what happens...and how much burned sites are apprecitated.....
You meant well, but some people don't always listen (raising hand).
Thanks for trying,
Thomas

Tom in the few base jumps i have done ground crew and vid for i have seen twice where the jumpers climbed down because they felt conditions were not right. I believe your questioning and feelings were inline. Having a "whatever" attitude can get you killed in both skydiving and base.
It takes courage to jump from somthing but it takes bigger courage to know when not to jump.

thanks for the post.

If you hadn't prefaced that post with the background, I would have sworn that that exchange was a parody.

I'm literally slack-jawed that there are people out there with attitudes like that.

And unfortunately, it's people like that who are going to ruin things for the rest of us.

Yo Tom,

Is this the thread you're referring to?

That's pretty much the same stock lecture. I bet he gets tired of giving it. I've put the link into my rant.

Thanks!

Tom

Please be advised that some people listen to what you say very intently. Don't stop giving the beta.

I have never done any BASE but I can see that attitude getting me nowhere.

I will watch closely for this guys' obits. They obviously haven't learned that stupid hurts. And that it can be permanent.

Age
P.S. I wonder if their "sponsors" will pay for their funerals?

Wonder if they have sponsors at all...Well if they have the sponsors will be disapointed im sure

Wrong people to sponsor. I won't buy another Burton product because of them. And they make great gloves, too.

What a waste,just to show what kind of people that can damage our way of life!!! Don' they want to learn the right way to do it????just way to sad!!!! The only way they'll learn is by death,and that will hurt our way of life!!!!!

I second that. Tom, great job trying to talk to these guys, maybe get a phone number or an email and try to further prompt discussion. Maybe they were hard to talk to right after their jump because they were so pumped, etc, maybe later they would be more approachable. It is your site too, imo, more so yours since you are jumping it correctly. But, regardless, you rock for helping people understand how to BASE jump correctly and safely (as possible).

Anyone have any thoughts on the usefulness of some sort of concerted lobby to Burton to let them know exactly what they are sponsoring and the dangers these people present to:

1. Themselves;
2. The BASE community; and
3. Burton's reputation (especially if they burn in).

If these guys are as full of themselves as they appear to be, they probably blew a bunch of smoke to Burton, who wouldn't know any better.

Seems like "educating" Burton might not be a bad idea (but I'm not always the most politically savvy person).

Unfuckinreal.

BASE jumping is a terrible sport to go into with any kind of hot-headed attitude (I imagine since I haven't jumped yet). It is right in line with other sports like backcountry skiing or climbing where getting into the moment without first respecting the moment will CERTAINLY bite you in the ass at one point. No thanks.

BTW - why would a snowboarding company sponsor someone most likely participating in an illegal proposition? I just find that to be highly unlikely. Perhaps they were just shit talkers that really can't ride a snowboard or a set of skis to save their lives.

I thought a lot about this a few years ago when a Red Bull sponsored jumper was on tour, burning quite a few objects around the world.

My eventual thought was that I'd rather not involve non-jumpers (of any kind) in what is essentially a BASE matter. I just saw at as too short a step from there to things like calling the cops on a fellow jumper because you disagreed with them.

I'm not absolutely certain how I feel about it, but I am a bit worried about the slippery slope that you start down when you invoke outside authorities.

For those of you who've seen FIXED 2!, remember the "CARNAGE TIME" jumper who smacked into the antenna about 2 seconds after opening? Then he bounced off it a few times, broke some lines, ripped his canopy, and barely lived.

Well, this guy just so happened to be jumping INTO the wind. He hasn't BASE'd since the accident.

Have a nice day

I also have a not completely likely, but possible, theory. I've actually seen this many times. Some people will claim to be sponsored by a company in an unrelated sport, logos on their gear and everything. The reality is they just had logos put on and then claim that they're sponsored. One particular character (skydiver) claimed to be sponsored by Ducati, and Ducato all over his gear. Turned out that not only was he not sponsored at all, but his logbook was "padded" about fivefold (discovered when he tried to get ratings and manifest/DZ knew he didn't have the jumps he claimed).

In snowboarding, you come across a lot of people who will buy a ton of Forum or Burton or M3, and then claim to be sponsored.

Not saying that these guys aren't sponsored, but just that it isn't impossible. Either way, they're fucking yahoo jackasses that are nothing but hurt to themselves, fellow BASErs, BASE, and their supposed sponsor.

Sent a little note to the marketing boys at Burton.
Ain't buying another Burton bit if they are sponsering these goons.
You probably know how I (and others) feel about idiots like this invovling themselves in any sport.
God knows I know nothing, but I know to listen to those with a little more respect for the sport, not to mention a little more experience.....
Rant for the day: Learn from other people's experiences, you won't live long enough to make 'em all yourself.
nb it probably helps if you have the humility to learn from their mistakes and advice.....

I find it funny when a young lad is ranting and raving on the lift ride up at a local resort about how bad ass they are and this and that and how their sponsor blah blah blah and I usually have a six pack and a smoke or two in me and can ride faster and safer than they can even come close to... Not tooting my own horn here, but there is a common thread in those types. They THINK they are the SHIT and ultimately get themselves hurt trying to live up to that. These people don't seem to want to learn/listen EVER. One of the reasons I desire to eventually do a BASE jump or a hundred is because I realize that in this sport, the people that really participate in it regulary seem to be nothing but open minded in educating and bringing along a young guy/gal. Again, I've never jumped, but I am simply blown away how people like Tom and DDog and Skinflicka and so on and so forth are very forthcoming with information for someone to help them live the next jump. It also reminds me that this is really perhaps one of the very few sports out there that cannot be done for the look of it. You have to be totally commited to the technical aspects of it or it will burn you, not if, just when is the question. That aspect of the sport both scares me and draws me towards it. I imagine that being able to fully ascertain a LZ on my own would feel quite similar to being able to make life and death decisions in the backcountry when a big ass avalanche may cover ones ass up deep.

On another note, Burton does make some very decent products and I really hope those jokers weren't truly sponsored by them. I've personally met Jake a few times and he seems to be nothing short of a gentlemen in terms of the quality of the product he's trying to produce and the safety of his friends while playing in the backcountry. He reminds me alot of Brian Germain. The few times I've met Brian, he's been nothing bur forthcoming with information to help me along in a safe and productive manner.

Blu skies soft landings...

"Skinflicka and so on and so forth are very forthcoming with information..."

Someimes I think Skinflicka may be too forthcoming with information (some of his favorite animal threads come to mind).

That's funny. I know who you're talking about (we're talking Californa here, right?). A bunch of us from the DZ were doing water training in a pool at someones house and he was there. The water in the pool was cold, but not too bad. I was swimming around in the water and when I swam past him I heard him say that the water was the coldest he'd ever experienced since his "special forces training" or something like that. He was shivvering and complaining in a way that I suspect that someone who had been in the special forces wouldn't... :-)

well im not sponsered,of 2 reasons
1 im not good enough to that
2 im not sure i want to,im not sure i would feel free(you know the responserbility that follows)

BUT i wear stickers from different manufactores(only thouse who i use gear from)I think its a collorfull way to tell im proud of the stuff i use.

But from there and then to say"im sponsored bla bla" i think theres a loong way.and see on reasson to say so..In a world like BASE i think liers get kicked out pretty fast.

too true!

i know of a jumper who met someone who "boasted" about the BASE jumps they had done not knowing he was a jumper - he asked the right questions about the objects apparently jumped and guess what! that guy did not come back to that DZ in a hurry!

heheheheh - it is easy to tell i beleive!

I'd like to hightlight a couple of things. Firstly, Skypuppy, the guinea pig is not my favorite animal. I only use them for sex.

Secondly, I'd like point out that I am indeed forthcoming with info if it'll save some pain but I will not encourage anyone to BASE jump for the first time. I hope my attitude towards newbies is well understood. You're all fuckin' mental. Why would you want to do this to yourselves?


Think it through. It could all go to hell on your first jump. Oops!

Skinfull.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that in this case RIP, the "instructor", really was sponsored by a snowboard manufacturer, in years (many of them, actually) past, even if he's not on their "official team" this year.

I realize that. I realize every time I'm hammering down a 40 degree slide prone slope that even on low to moderate days I could still be buried deep. I've been in my share of near death experiences and have come to terms with death and have talked with those that I love about my life and what it means to me and what I'd like to do with it in the future (i.e. perhaps jump off of a fixed object). They realize what it takes for me to be happy.

 

WIRE RIDER: Yeah, whatever, man. We're sponsored.
__________________________________________________
at least one of them, and probably both, sounds like a moron.
it seems like TA dsiplayed admirable retraint.
i doubt i could have

be safe

kleggo

Hi,

oh thats just priceless !

The stupid teaching the even more stupid ...

I reckon we'll probably be hearing more of these warm organ donors soon enough, with their attitude its only a matter of time.

nice of you to try and impart some knowledge on them - you just can't help some people.

I had words with "Burton" years ago concerning this same kind of thing when I was at BR. They don't care. All they are after is getting their name and logo out there. Some reading this thread have never heard of Burton, but they have now, see how that works?

They'd like nothing better than a high profile BASE rescue live on CNN that shows their logo flapping around in the wind.

That's the rub, the more obnoxious and unqualified the sponsored jumper is the more chance there is he/she will make the news.

In fact the more we write to them complaining about it the more they see their strategy is working.

BTW, John's being shown over and over on CNN headline news (Friday morning) right now.

NickD
BASE 194

John needs to go jump a span next so he can get BASE bounce. I would nominate him for #1 posthumosly if he can pull it off. Seriously , he needs to take up "extreem shuffleboarding".

how about the next person who has this kind of contact with the "SPONSORED TWINS", politely jam their PCs down their mouths and beat the shit out them for being so freakin stupid. or just sit back and let natural selection take care of it. that would be so much fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ignorancy runs rampant no matter where you are at.
ps. skin, go jump something.
love, mark

I don't know if anyone has noticed yet, but this is a two-year old thread. Edited to add: two and one-half years old.

The "sponsored twins" are either dead or famous by now.

rl

Kleggo, I, and many others who have been around for a while sometimes just sit in disbelief at what's happened in this sport. We all knew this would occur when BASE went mainstream and I remember 20 years ago Moe Viletto saying the day is coming and it's not going to be pretty. Well, here we are . . .

The only weapon we have against this sort of thing is the only tactic we've ever had, peer pressure. While not an advocate for violence a good punch in the nose, or a bucket of tar, is how site burners and glory hounds used to be handled in this sport. Are we going soft?

I know it's a delicate balancing act between freedom and responsibility and I remember smart BASE jumpers in the old days saying about guys like these, "Yeah, but how do we know "we" are doing it right?" And they had a point at that time as we all are just winging it too.

But now, all these years later, we do know what works and what doesn't and to ignore that knowledge is almost criminal. I'd like to see a worldwide BASE gear shit list for these people. Play the game right or no gear for you. These folks needed to be "outed" and ostracized from the BASE community. You can even look at it as we aren’t hurting them – we are saving them from themselves.

I think we all need to remember how it was when we (me and you) started BASE jumping and how ignorant we were. It is so very easy to see the fun and the glory without understanding the consequences. We actually do a poor job with that in general. Some can read the fatality list, sit in a good and thorough first BASE course, and even know someone who was hurt, but still it doesn't register.

It's an old saw by now, but we know no matter how many are injured or killed, no matter how many sites are burned, and no matter how many times we just shrug our shoulders and say, "what a jerk," BASE jumping is going to continue forevermore. So our real responsibility is to the youngest and dumbest among us. We didn’t ask for that job, but from writing about BASE, making videos about BASE, and allowing ourselves to become "names" in BASE, we have foisted that job upon ourselves. Like teaching a child too young to realize the danger of running onto a busy street sometimes a measured amount of spanking is a good thing.

I'd love to hear of an experienced BASE jumper telling a story about someone messing up and after asking them what they did about it finding out they "confiscated" the gear. We could even keep score and award a plaque at the end of the year to the "Biggest Confiscator." If Tom (not laying this all on you, brother) told me he took someone's gear away I'd back him to the hilt with no questions asked. We don’t have to make it impossible for bozos to BASE jump, we do, however, have to find a way to make it "just a little bit" harder.

If we don’t do these things, we are exactly what our critics say we are, a bunch of self serving assholes . . .

NickD
BASE 194

I know an experienced jumper who (relatively recently--within the last 2 years) actually destroyed another jumpers gear after a "failure to find locals" type incident.

Those things are still happening. You just don't generally read all about them on the internet (or, really, anywhere else).

it's kind of like road rage. i want to do evil things to people who do incredibly stupid things that make no sense and make my own situation dangerous or more noticed. it's pretty cool to see on someones athlete bio page that they are a BASE jumper isn't it. wow, that makes them more worthy of sponsoring them to do stupid shit. that sucks that a company would support someone to practicing "less than good ethics" in any sport. take out your own wallet, purchase some gear and go do it alone. does anyone know a rigger who would stitch a picture of my pay stub on my canopy? a whole lot of people would be in the shit it that whored out individual actually had a object strike on that particular jump don't you think?

NickDG -

Sed Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custudios?

Et tu?

Hey, I have a burton snowboard.

Maybe they will sponsor me! I even prefer to jump the downwind side of towers.

SPeaking of Towers, Could anyone take me to one of those 2000footers with elevator?!?

BASE is a culture of rational anarchists. If someone fucks up in the meting out of "justice," you can be sure that they too will face consequences for their failure to make a good decision.

Everyone is a guardian, so everyone will guard themselves and each other, and wrong decisions will be met with appropriate disapprobation.

Tom

I feel for you on this one.

IMHO - the only bad thing about people like that going in is that they leave loved ones behind and further tarnish the public perception of the sport.

I have found that the more you try to care about people and protect them from their own stupidity, the more you get ostracised. In the end, I have decided that if people don't care about themselves, then I will follow their lead and not care for them either. There are too many good people who deserve your efforts.

Natural selection will often be the winner!!!!

BTW - I'll have to get one of those sponsorship things. Seems like it stops you from dying. Imagine what fun I could have then!!!!

[ what do you mean? dont we always jump between the wires on antennas? did the guy go through the wires and into the other side or not?

if so, did he land over there or did he come back through again and land in the same side as he had jumped from?

Um, you saw that this post is more than 2 years old, right?

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?

You really are retarded, aren't you? By a couple of years to be exact

bsbd!

Yuri.

2 Beginner jumpers in 'shifty, gusty winds' on a beginner object? If the winds were 'questionable' and they were 'beginners' wouldn't a 'no go' call be the best idea for those jumpers?? 2000' TV tower is far from a beginner object, at least where I'm from. And apparently where YOU are from too according to this account.
And if this is JT Holmes, the ex skibasewannabegod, well nuff said, sorry for wasting the bandwith sangrio... I won't even comment on his packing posts..... And if its not, then whomever should seek some solid BASE advice, especially if you are going to make illegal jumps in the states.
Later
Blair

packing posts...whats wrong with them?

why am I an ex ski baser?

didnt see that..looked like a last week thing to me and that you were venting because that tower thingy ended up on the news.

oh well, stil worth stating some facts to show JR´s side of things, as I have been on the opposite side of internet lashings and it isnt the best feeling in the world and usually the facts are all way offf.

but i guess 2 years ago his canopies might have been cleaner