Basejumper.com - archive

is there anywhere in the US where you can
make legal antennae jumps? You don't have
to name places...

whoops... another question... is it legal to
jump on private property w/ the owner's permission?

If the owner owns both the land and the antenna, it would be legal.

what liability issues would the owner of the land and antennae need to arrange? Would signing a waiver suffice or would the owner need to procure some sort of insurance?

If the rules are near our rules(DK)then its much like if you want a premission to make a demo skydive.

If you get both the object`s owner,the place you will land,and you dont disturp the normal public,then yesor do like in Melaysia,gat the promisions,and let the police,help to keep people on distance...

But they're not; in the US you have to take in to account all kinds of liability issues.

That migth just why there aint more places to jump legal in US...

You got it. Over here everybody is so sue happy that we can no longer have any fun...
It's time for some accountability in this country.
It's perfectly legal to throw yourself off of many objects all over the world.The U.S. has few legal sites. Go figure...
Wait...Isn't it the U.S. that was nicknamed "The land of the free"?

That what US want the world to belive(personal thourgth),but i dont think so.I belive that US are so free that it tigth itself up.Okay this belong other place.

But for sure it could be fun/nice to find out what it takes,to jump legal in US.As Brigde day..

Also,what happend in different places in US if you get court(if you did a elegal jump).

In DK i would get a ticket for traspasing,that will cost me less than 100$But have Heard that some places they even take the gear aswell or put you in jail..

so the question becomes, wouldn't the liability issue be much the same as for a standard drop zone (that is, if the owner of the antenna/land wanted to charge for jumps)? Like, sign this waiver saying you won't sue the shit out of me if you kill yourself, etc. etc.

I guess so. Mind you, all the knowledge I have on the american legal system comes from watching the telly. It seems to me that you can sue for just about anything you feel like in the US.

What I've read about waivers in general here on the forums, a badly worded waiver can supposedly even harm the (in this case) land owner in case of a law suit.

Thanks Erno. Anyone in the US have knowledge of/experience with the legal waiver thing at DZs? Any speculation about how that would apply to a lang/antenna owner who permits base jumps from his property?

 

I'd like to talk to you via email if you'd entertain it.
Let me know...

sinker

The problem (in my hands-on experience) with the US legal system today is twofold.

One, even if you sign a wavier that says in big letters I WILL NOT SUE YOU IF I DIE, and you die, your heirs can sue anyway. Sure, a judge might throw out the suit on summary judgment (which is, nowadays, extremely rare even in clearcut cases - a smart lawyer will always add a few points of factual dispute and no summary judgment), but far more likely is that it will go to trial. Plan on at least $100,000 to mount a defense at a civil jury trial. This is even if you have a signed, notarized, legal wavier. Our legal system is so out of control that signed contracts are often ignored and it turns into a big pissing match at trial.

Two, jury trials are a total crapshoot in the US. You MIGHT get a jury that is stable, intelligent, and fair - but more likely you'll get a group of people raised on Oprah and Jerry Springer. Put eleven of them together, and groupthink runs rampant. Basically, it turns into a popularity contest - juries are SUPPOSED to follow the law, but they can pretty much do what they want.

Are you a cute white chick? Poor, but not too poor? Jury will love you, cha-ching! Not so cute? Not so poor? Too poor? Not white? Good luck, mate, as you'll need it.

The foundation of the US legal system is sound. However, over the centuries the lawyers have tweaked it to their enormous benefit - lawyers love lawsuits, and in the USA lawyers write the laws that govern lawsuits. Guess what? Lawsuits are so easy to file, and so expensive to defend against, that everyone is hiding in bunkers just hoping some trigger-happy plaintiff lawyer isn't going to target them for an easy payday.

This is why property owners in the USA don't allow legal access. Even with a perfect liability wavier, they could get sued, spend a few hundred grand defending the suit. Even if they win, they don't get their legal fees back - doesn't work that way in the USA. If they get a jury who decides they aren't so cute, they could get screwed even if they did nothing wrong.

If you owned a building in the USA, would you put your family's entire fiancial future at risk to allow someone to jump off it? Only if you knew that person and trusted them - and their family - quite well, I'd think.

Thus, us BASE folks in the USA get really good at getting on objects, getting off them, not harming anyone, and never leaving so much as a footprint behind. Not what we want to do, but what choice do we have in our "land of the free?"

Peace from Malaysia,

D-d0g
ddog@wrinko.com
www.wrinko.com

Thanks for the post DdOg. More for me to chew on. My thing is though, drop zones do this all the time and more than a few actually are very successful financially. But, I'm with you on the legal shit. The justice system in the US, while being second to none as it was originally intended, has turned into a circus.

[
States have their own laws protecting Land owners from liability. It is commonly reffered to as the recreational land use act (sec 895.52 of Wis. State Statues). While most states have some protection, the extent of it can vary greatly from state to state. Wisconsin Law protects above and beyond what some other states offer for immunity from liability.
As an example; in some states the courts have held that only owners of unimproved land are protected from liability. Wisconsin is also one of the only states which does not require the land owner to warn of a known hazardous conditions and will also allow land owner to receive some payment for use of the property. These laws do a very good job at preventing frivolous lawsuits in some states. In some states; such as Maine, there is a section which awards direct legal costs to landowners found not liable under the statute. I have seen this statute prevent and drop lawsuits without the use of a defense laywer.

For what? This is a very vague statement. What if I am being sued in Wisconsin for something that I was protected from liability under the State Statues . Actually, there is a great chance that it would never see trial as the defendent could be awarded Summary Judgment
How much do you think the plantiff would be willing to spend on attorney fees knowing the defense's arguement (assuming the lawyer is not working on a contingency basis) Or how much time and resources would a contigency lawyer put into a case after presented with the history of this law being applied favorably toward the land owner. This is why I have a file on this law including history.

It may be intersting to some to read how recreational activity is defined under this law(Wis. S895.525(2). so I have included it:

'In this section, "recreational activity" means any activity undertaken for the purpose of exercise, relaxation or pleasure, including practice or instruction in any such activity. "Recreational activity" includes, but is not limited to, hunting, fishing, trapping, camping, bowling, billiards, picnicking, exploring caves, nature study, dancing, bicycling, horseback riding, horseshoe-pitching, bird-watching, motorcycling, operating an all-terrain vehicle, ballooning, curling, throwing darts, hang gliding, hiking, tobogganing, sledding, sleigh riding, snowmobiling, skiing, skating, participation in water sports, weight and fitness training, sight-seeing, rock-climbing, cutting or removing wood, climbing observation towers, animal training, harvesting the products of nature, sport shooting and any other sport, game or educational activity.'

Just my .02 cents
Josh