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People who live in a free country where it’s not a big deal and you are unlikely to get shot by a hyperactive cop or paranoid citizen.

But in all seriousness they were let on to the roof by a resident so is it a million miles away from jumping any site in the day where public are present, say Benidorm, Istanbul, Tallinn, Blackpool dare I say the Perrine?


Laters

Julian.

The primary reason to avoid attention is to protect the random bystanders--it has much less to do with getting busted.

Any time you stand on an exit point, you're taking responsibility for anyone you expose to your jump (ground crew, other jumpers, and especially random bystanders).

Random people watching have no idea what they've gotten into--they haven't made any kind of informed decision to participate in a high risk situation. A major incident (which this was not) can potentially have serious ramifications for them, and we are effectively taking away their choice about whether or not to participate.

It's great to high five those random bystanders when everything goes well, and it makes you feel like a super hero. But let's remember that we're also thrusting them into some potentially bloody carnage if things don't go well.

Exactly my point about the Perrine and every other event where public can witness a live jump.
There is no difference in this regard to what happened in stockholm and say Benidorm where holiday makers are literally sunbathing under the exit point of an event. In fact I argue the statistical likelyhood of something happenjng at an event rather than a “dayblaze” is directly linked to the number of jumps made. The more jumps the more chance of an issue.

Maybe you should therefore only run your courses at night to protect the public from potentially and inadvertently witnessing another Perrine fatality?

Right.

And we discuss that at some length on the first morning of every course. It's a very real issue. It's also one of the reasons that we try to schedule courses on weekdays (fewer bystanders) and do our jumping early in the morning whenever possible (also fewer bystanders), and stage on the side of the bridge away from the visitor center (where crowds don't gather). I honestly think it's irresponsible not to consider the impact on the general public of every jump. Treating a jump as a "look at me" opportunity because it's legal is silly. Legality is not an excuse to behave irresponsibly. The fact that a jump is legal makes that _more_ important, not less.

It's an important issue. And we spend a lot of time and energy discussing it with every class.

Running exclusively at night was something we considered (and have occasionally done) but I'm not comfortable with the increased injury potential, and resulting increased impact on local services (and the possibility of increasing the risk to the SAR team by requiring a night rescue).

Occasional night jumps I'm ok with. But I think that running exclusively at night isn't worth the additional risk and potential additional impact.

The jumper in question actually started off at SRBA if i'm not mistaken ;)
Come on, everybody dayblazes a little now and then. This guy usually doesn't.

The discussion was more general, and not really about this specific incident. But yes, he was one of our students.

The "WTF" crack was meant as a casual crack at a friend.


The response to Jules was meant as a more serious discussion.

I'm going to split the discussion about impact on bystanders out into a separate thread.

watching someone go in from the top of a bridge is different than being at the base of a building?

The bottom of the Perrine bridge on any given day is a far less traveled area than downtown Stockholm during daylight hours, obviously.

So is your point about quality (view of impact) or quantity (number of people affected) or is it a case of it’s ok to witness an accident here but not there? A family who booked a holiday in Benidorm wake up to find an unadvertised base event above the hotel pool where little Johnny is playing is ok because it’s an event but hitting the local B in the day so you can blag access to the roof to “take photos” is not ok? What about KL or is that ok?

Soooooooo many rules, I’m confused.


The reason there was a small crowd is because the guy had already PCAd his friend who landed successfully but obviously attracted a little attention before his mate could jump.

Yes, but the top isn't. There's a lot of impact on viewers (and traffic) at the top of the bridge.

Just to be clear, I'm really not talking about any specific jump at this point--just how we all ought to be taking spectators into account in our planning and behavior.



It's not rules. Nothing is hard and fast. We're talking about BASE. We need to use common sense and actually think through things--not create rules. Rules are dumb, and don't adjust for real world situations. Rules are usually things imposed by (or created to appease) outside authorities, who usually know next to nothing about BASE. Each of us exercising common sense is the best way to avoid the imposition of rules.

My point was that we all need to be mindful of everyone who our jumps potentially impact--but especially of those people who are not personally involved with the jump or the jumpers in some way.

That's true most places. There are tourists, landowners, spectators, and passers by at many BASE sites. You see them in Switzerland, Italy, Idaho...the list goes on. The fact that a site is legal means we should be _more_ careful, not less, because we have more at risk. And the presence of onlookers, too, calls for an increased degree of care on our part.

Totally agree, there is a time and a place for everything.
Some Bs are only dayblazable, others should only be jumped at a more sensible time, it’s for each jumper to make their own decisions and live with the consequences, whatever they may be.
My general comment was aimed at the armchair experts mouthing off about a jump they knew nothing/very little about about. (And not just in the Stockholm thread)
Everyone goes on about how they would have done this or done that differently. Fact is nobody knows what they will do until they are in the saddle, and even then what they do on one jump will differ on the next one.


But is there a base jumper on here who wouldn't dayblaze, what was essentially a legal B in the afternoon, if they could?

As for attracting attention un-necessarily, where do you stand on setting fire to canopies in the middle of the day...


Laters


Julian.

looks like he slipped prob ice up there...u can hear the canopy open when old mate pulled the camera away just at the worst time...cunt must have been split second away from impacted before the canopy slowed him enough to survive....hate how the news wankers always says people hit the ground from 2million feet with no parachute out and survive ..

I like to day blaze on Christmas Morning

Hey POMPOUS ass.
You stating anything about using common sense is laughable.

Oh, so you are the only person in BASE history who has never made a mistake that violated common sense?

And may be you never notice but 99 percent of the world thinks anyone who base jumps or even skydives has zero common sense to begin with, so what exactly are you laughing about?

HAHAHhha.... jesus H

If you even had a clue of who I am you would know that I've made plenty of mistakes... (not that it matters to you)
I'm laughing because pompous Tom is telling everyone to use common sense.
Got it?
Do you feel better now?

I feel fine before your pompous reply. At least der Pompous Tom have the hoden to ID himself. Pompous JDS hides behind her keyboard 'cause she apparently have none.

Why not address what he say instead of attacking the person who say it? It seem to me everything he say is thoughtful and good common sense thinking so we can better keep legal sites legal. Please address the content.

It's Huckleberry to you!
BASE884
WTF do you care?
TOM is still a lying Pompous ass, as I addressed your concern is a PM....

To try to stay in the subject and not outside, I would like to remind that last year a guy in a wingsuit died between 2 cars on a parking lot of an event in Norway, and an other died 20m from the road in Brento.
The year before a guy impact a house in Chamonix.
If you are sometimes reading the forum or FB you can see that the people of Brento area are concerned by this problem and put some rules for the jumpers there to minimize it, like the Chamonix major closed exits in his area.
The biggest problem IMO are not the witnesses but the potential collateral victims, that are more than unlikely at Perrine compare to Benidormor other buildings events, or in this perticular case a day jump in town.
It has to be taken in consideration for any event organised, and for any jump made, could I kill somebody other than me ? It never happends for now, but I'm pretty sure that if it happends BASE will have a hard time to survive to it.

but this thread is not about Tom. It's about general base jumper conduct, so I hope you talk about the content, not your personal opinion.

I do not know Tom. I judge only what he say and his words here make sense to me. Please talk about the content.