Basejumper.com - archive

http://mobile.abc.net.au/.../8865974?pfmredir=sm

What happened to the second jumper on the two way who was also missing and had a rescue + injuries?

he jumped from the same exit but flew a different line

broken leg and ribs

3 jumpers in total, from what I understand

http://www.perthnow.com.au/...581698180ef68ddf4dca

200 BASEjumps, jumps Paganella.

***shakesheadandwalksaway***

And flies proximity... how many times have we seen the same story repeated over and over again...

I think among newer jumpers its downgraded to 'funjump' and I've seen several guys with no more 15 to 25 wingsuit basejumps head up there.

Other sports have various rating systems that attempt to describe the difficulty of a particular area by attaching a rating of some sort. I thought about something like this a long while ago but I don't think I've seen it in BASE yet. Is there some sort of grading system in place (formally or informally) that rates the difficulty of certain jumps and what skills people need to develop in order to attempt those jumps?

Maybe this would help to inform new jumpers where they may be pushing too hard. I doubt it since most new jumpers seem to think a couple hundred skydives is super experienced but you never know... one person may be saved from themselves.

Not linked to this case, or the jumpers involved.
But I think even Brevent, being known as not a beginner jump has had quite a few people with sub 50 wingsuit basejumps going there. Knowing the actual risk, difficulty and dangers.

Same as jumping High Ultimate for a first or second wingsuit basejump is not common known to be 'not smart', yet it happened.

I think we're not the sport where common sense and listening is always the strong point of participants...

SBA has a rating system for the jumps in LB.

Colour coded:
http://www.swissbaseassociation.ch/...Valley_Jump_Info.pdf

Does this mean we are gonna have to listen to Reiner's shit all over again?

WS BASE nor BASE is a SPORT. It is activity ...
that fact explain a lot ...

In a more serious response...
Comparing the 3 people so far who survived crash landing into trees so far, stalling you suit at low speed seems the best way to do it and maybe survive to tell the tale.

you mean the ratio is 2:1

No, I mean all 3 cases of crashed flyers had them (at the last moment) try not to hit the ground by trying to 'fly' out of it. Killing the forward speed in an effort to stay up (the opposite of whats needed, but more instinctive in terms of response).

Essentially stalling it into the ground, with (by luck) trees braking the fall..

Duh! I knew that!

Any reason why it should not be expanded out to other sites?

Are you saying that BASE is an activity and not a sport and therefore it shouldn't have grading system?

I think Robert more aims at sports being more methodical in training and sane in decision making and respecting gradual progression...

I have seen a similar one for Kjerag somewhere.

But I think what makes Kjerag unique is that to get access to the exits you are going through a club - the SBK (well you don't have to I suppose, e.g. if you organise your own boat, but most people would).
So pretty much everyone who jumps there comes into contact with a local instructor who can advise them on the jumps.

Grading system works when you have established teaching , guiding, controlling ( licensing ) system. No need to go far , look skydiving or paragliding.

There is many reasons why BASE society is not compatible to such system. Roots are so much different, and therefore is simply impossible to establish any system.

Get use to the nature of BASE as it is and forget about any changes.

Wisdom, right there.

I think that you are wrong Robert. I think that one day, not close for sure (but perhaps), things will change. It was the same for paragliding as you say or hang gliding, etc... And you could have a big part on this evolution with your company, because you are not selling only equipment, you are selling dream and you are a part in the step of growing for each jumper. Each one wants to progress, to experiment new adventures, to go one step further. This is accomplishment.

When I started climbing very young, I did it alone first building my own harness, finding cliff in nowhere... Then I met people with more experiment than me, people that could make my dream of climbing true. I've read a lot of books where some great alpinists were talking about their amazing adventures. Then I made my own way, making my own unclimb and searching my "graal".

It is not necessary to go to school to learn or to be licensing to progress safely. But if there are some schools and licence, yes you should learn what safety is and to make it real each time. As long as in learning there will be nothing about how to manage and control his own safety, and not only just controling packing but more, nothing will change, you're right Robert.

Grading all exits will be a solution. As in climbing, alpinism, the grade of a route simply inform you quickly in few second if first you have the skills to do it or not. And you can grade many part of the route, many aspects... More jumpers will have informations about the jumps, more the jumps will be safe, because I suppose that all are not stupid and can use their brain to ask some little questions to themselves. Iam a professionnal climbing guide and yes I see often some people that do what they want and put other and themselves in danger... but they are few. When at the begening of a via ferrata there is a board that tell you which equipment you should have and how to use it, if you fuck that you are just a berk. If I see someone doing wrong I tell him, even if it makes him shame in front of everyone, and I hope that he undrestand my message. And I could tell you that king of person is very dfifficult to convince, but... better to do that not!

So more we talk about safety more we will have educate jumpers. And this is the responsability of each BASE school, of each BASE manufacturers, of each association, of each forum to work in that way.

Last year, a French prefet took the arrest to close Brevent and AM, no death there this year, less accident too around. This have a positive impact, because we all know that accidents arrive due to too much confident and routine, group effect, not only due to less skills and beginners.

To conclude, we can all thank Laurent Frat for his little card "5 minutes for safety" because it is a good way. It is a step to for taking less risks, to control his ego, and just that could be shared by eveyone and finding easily on the web. More initiative like this one will be welcome in our community and in our sport.

Sorry to talk on this accident thread... this kind of discussion must be public and on "general".

Take care.

Jerome

There are tons of schools, and a big part of that in wingsuit progression is actually learning more skydiving before even progressing to base.
But thinking people will choose safe practice over a trip to LB, and thinking they will do 300 jumps and 3 seasons before even progressing to flying closer to objects. Its a pipe dream. Everyone wants to be cool. And preferably as fast as possible.
And 5 'safe' guys saying 'wait and train' and 1 cool guy saying 'nah..you're good' guess who they listen to.

Grading exits a solution? Even jumps that are known not to be beginner jumps, are often jumped by people with low experience, knowingly.

You think those people doing first wingsuit jumps from High Ultimate didnt know it was not a more difficult exit?

If less accidents are due to brevent closing, thats due to rules that are enforced from the outside. They cant jump. Even if they wanted to.
If it would open again today, you'd see the same group of people right back up there. Some skilled and trained, but the same bunch with not enough experience, just looking to make cool videos.

Unless you force rules onto people, you'll always have those who think the general rule doesn't apply to them.

Most companies are putting advice out there, but peoples acceptance of the advice tends to vary in terms of how much they want it to apply to themselves or not.
You put to much faith in peoples ability to choose with their brain, vs ego and impatience...

I see your point.
Time will tell, however, as you see in the world in general , any following of the law in whatever activity is enforced by penalty system or similar sort of punishments...
How to enforce to follow the law in BASE while BASE it self is penalty :)

As you mentioned, shutting down AGM or Brevent cause the positive effect!! Wait - Positive effect is that AGM is closed?!
What that saying about BASE?!

All the jumpers should visualize that BASE is far from being publicly , by society accepted activity! ( try to see bigger picture , not just France or CH...)

Climbing 100+ years ago was ''sport for fools''. Maybe we will need to wait another 100 years...
BASE is not even a sport and that is also BIG minus for the future of BASE as far as regulation goes..

What Lau did is of course very nice but it will stay on that level for some long time. It will stay like that as long as BASE reach the critical mass of people who does that activity..

Will that ever happen?! I doubt.