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i hope this is a thread that newer jumpers can take something from. I'd love to hear from all the people who have a few years in the sport. Answers can be as broad or specific as you want.

1. Looking back at your base career, if you could change something you've done, or the way you did it, what would that be?

2. What is one thing you are glad you did that you would recommend to beginning jumpers?

Buy a laser range finder earlier.

Freefalling a 250 ft tower when you thought it was 400 makes for a hard landing.

Turns out it was the wrong tower on the topo map.

For me , not so much for slider down , but especially for wingsuiting, I am very glad that I learned to fly a paraglider and understand the micrometeorology ( advanced rating and 10 years of flying ).I think pilots who just skydive have no idea what they are getting themselves into.

Listen to that little voice in your head. If something doesn't feel right it probably isn't. If I would have done that I wouldn't have ended up breaking myself and spending a week in the ICU. I also would have saved thousands of dollars my job and not to mention my credit.

Never justify jumping in bad conditions with your jump numbers or courses you took. I did and I hit the object.


I'm glad I kept jumping. I've seen a lot of people start the sport, then quit shortly after. I'm not sure why you would invest so much time and money, then quit.

1.) Start to skydive rather in my early twenties than my early thirties and become really good at it.

2.) Rather start to BASEjump in your thirties than your twenties. All of us guys have been there, and if we admit it, we're still (young,) dumb and full of cum. BASEjumping is serious shit. It sucks to get hurt and limp for the rest of your life, but honestly, dying aint worth it if you're still wet behind the ears.

And yea, never give up, whatever life throws at you!

Had about 2000+ wingsuit skydives doing more than flying just straight lines, before I took it of a cliff. Might be a bit excessive, but would recommend having 'a few' more than the 50 to a 100 I see with a lot of people now. Fly angles, fly steep, don't just learn to fix instability, but learn to fly it, and make it your bitch...

Spending more time early on, with an experienced crew and getting a good (i.e. safe, experienced, and good-natured) mentor. I had no locals or mentors in the vast majority of places I lived. It'd be worth traveling more for.

edit to add:
#2: walk down/climb down a lot

Started surfing

1. i wouldn't have jumped KL in a headwind even though i was current at turning around 180s there.

2. super glad i'm very popular and good looking. definitely advise newer jumpers to do that.

1. Looking back at your base career, if you could change something you've done, or the way you did it, what would that be?

I would have jumped in Vegas a few times before it was a felony.

2. What is one thing you are glad you did that you would recommend to beginning jumpers?

I have been (and hope to continue) progressing slowly. 1200+ skydives, 200+ BASE jumps; and I'm still not keen on slider-off aerials, short start wingsuit exits, or technical landing areas. It's a marathon, not a sprint, and fast progressions are correlated with injuries and fatalities.

1. Looking back at your base career, if you could change something you've done, or the way you did it, what would that be?

I would learn object avoidance techniques straight after first jump course so that technique like this: https://vimeo.com/156517510 or like this: https://vimeo.com/156517511 would have been my second nature early in career.

I proceeded to unsupervised jumping without knowing these skills. I thought I possessed these skills but in actual sense I did not. I practices a lot of canopy turn around moves on skydives -- or so I thought that I was practicing them. What I found was that this "practice" was useless. Or even worst -- it gave me sense of false belief that I would be able to turn around my canopy in an off-heading opening scenario.

Turning around a BASE canopy -- I found -- involves a somewhat different technique to turning around a skydiving canopy. It requires quicker reaction times and therefore all of the hand movements have to be dialled in on "hardware" level.

Turning a BASE canopy in off-heading situation requires more force to be applied to the risers than what you would be used to in skydiving because most likely your skydiving canopy would be roughly half the size of your BASE canopy and therefore force applied to initiate turn or a stall as well as subsequent canopy's response to your inputs and canopie's movement/dynamics will be quite different to what you experience on a skydive jump.

Even if you jump your BASE canopy out of an aircraft, those jumps are next to useless in teaching object avoidance turns. Here is why I believe so:

Firstly, when you are faced with an off-heading situation in real world, you would generally be identifying the situation during canopy opening sequence and by the last stage of canopy opening you should be applying corrective inputs. This is when your canopy would have had bottom skin inflation and would be in the process of completing top skin inflation. This is generally when you realise that you're facing the object. At this stage, when you grab the rear risers (or toggles), the canopy is still "soggy", its movements in the air are different to a fully inflated and flying canopy. It is important to try to catch this precise moment when the para foil has already formed above you but has not wet started flying forward as this would give you the best chance of initiating a corrective manoeuvre without closing the distance with the object. On a skydive, however, BASE canopy "explodes" immediately and it's almost impossible to catch this "soggy" state on the tail end of second stage of canopy inflation (see Dwain Weston's canopy opening sequence breakdown article). On the other hand, if you pack the canopy into a bag, then this "soggy" canopy state would be too long to correctly simulate a BASE opening. Skydiving canopies shrivel for 100 meters sometimes, something that you would never get in BASE environment (and if you do, off heading correction would be the least of your worries :)))

And secondly, of course, skydive gives you little visual aid to gauge the radius of your turn and the effectiveness of your inputs to stall and turn the canopy. It may give one a false sense of "yep, I can do it" just because the canopy turned around. The fact that you fly 100 feet forward during execution of this "evasive manoeuvre" is not noticed in the sky.

CRW helps! For sure. But it is still not 100% accurate as you are still flying skydiving gear and you are not executing turns during second stage of canopy inflation.

When I found myself facing the cliff, I pulled on the rear riser in a similar way to how I would have pulled on a skydiving riser. Just like I practiced in the sky. A skydiving canopy would have went into a sharp dive-turn. My BASE canopy went into a slow turn with large radius (large, in this context, of course, is a relative term -- any radius larger than "on the spot turn" is larger than desired in a BASE off-heading situation). In the end I turned the canopy 90 degrees and just "brushed" the cliff. It felt like being hit by a train. It was the worst single experience of my life. I walked away without broken bones. In a lot of pain but nothing damaged. This goes to show that one can hack it and doing "something" is better than doing nothing -- if I hit head on, I would have been dead for sure, no doubt about it, full stop, 100%. However, if I had proper training at the time, I would have produced a cool object avoidance video and that's about it.

Training OAC (Off-Heading Avoidance Course) with Simon Lazarev qbaser@yandex.ru on a bridge in Croatia, I learned how BASE canopies can "move backwards" rather safely. I learned and dialled in the force required to be applied to the risers in order to "stop the canopy" flying forward upon opening. Essentially, in order to turn around, one needs to put the para foil into a semi-stall configuration when facing the object and you achieve a semi-stall by pulling on both risers down to the chest almost -- this would stop the canopy from flying forward and, if enough force is applied, can actually fly you backwards, away from the object. Then, by releasing one of the risers and applying even more force to the opposite riser, pulling it below chest almost, as well as kicking a knee up, one can achieve a turn on the spot or very close to it.

Since receiving training, I had an off-heading opening on a rusty old bridge, 47 meters tall, surrounded by tall trees, metal fences and all sort of sharp stuff sticking from the ground. By reacting almost subconsciously to the situation, I was able to correct heading and land safely. I PLRed (because riser turns do eat up height and at 47m there is little room for trading alti) but I actually did not have to do that, the avoidance manoeuvre was executed so well that I would have stood up the landing if I tried.

If I practised these skills before going off to jump Ton Sai Wall with my super sensible crew of Russian friends, I would have escaped months of agonising pain.



2. What is one thing you are glad you did that you would recommend to beginning jumpers?

Do Object Avoidance Course with Semen Lazarev (qbaser@yandex.ru) in Croatia or Snake River Base (http://snakeriverbase.com/...ct-avoidance-course/) or with anyone who has it as a dedicated course (I would have added more links but I just don’t know anyone else offering it as a dedicated course), not just one day part of some other course, do it as a proper, serious week-long undertaking, with heaps of jumps, lots of practice and getting to know your canopy really well.

It will save your life.

Am I the only one who was taught object avoidance right from the start by my mentor?
I mean jesus fucking crist people, this is some basic shit that's pretty obvious, is it not?
A couple of PCA's off a span is NOT teaching base, it's just throwing your ass of a span.

I just don't get it, wat is so "dedicated" about basic survival skills?

My experience is that even the "big names" limit OA training to a floater exit with hand held/free fall, after which they ask students to turn the canopy 90 degrees on RR.

This is certainly better than nothing and gives students an opportunity to feel the stability of a huge and docile canopy at "close-to-stall configuration, gives some degree of understanding of amount of pull force required to be put on the risers to control an inflating canopy... but overall, in my opinion, this limited approach is not likely to teach muscle memory.

I suppose some people "just get it". Experienced skydivers with lots of CRW training might be able to get it quicker. I suppose that is why they say 200+ skydives just for someone to hold onto your PC for the first time...

But still... There are cases of people with 500+ skydives and 100+ BASE jumps and people freeze in an off-heading situation. Understanding how it works and having developed muscle memory are two different things.

Even today, when I wrote the original response, I know of only two schools who teach OAC as a multi-day dedicated course.

>Am I the only one who was taught object avoidance right from the start by my mentor?

My experience is that none of the people I met in BASE, all of whom started with different mentors and courses -- none had OAC training. Everyone was hoping to hack it and deal with it when it occurs.

That's why I felt it was important to spend time and write the response to the OP's question. ll beginners should seriously consider doing an OAC straight after FJC. Make it a two week trip, not one! Get 20 FJC jumps in and 20 OAC jumps in on the back of that. But for some unknown reason NO ONE does it as standard! Why? I too, like you, Mr R. fail to comprehend.

The best advice I've received comes from people who don't talk often, but when they do they say a lot. Reigns true on these forums as a lot of good info is lost on the ramblings of people with minimal experience.

Listen to people who know better than you. There's probably a few of them.

You're not really that cool. Jumping off cliffs with nylon is supposed to be fun not a foundation of identity.

I'd consider someone with 500 skydives to be a beginner. That's the stage where you begin to think you know everything but dont. IMO, at about 1000 jumps you start to realize that you barely knew anything back when you had 500 jumps. Around 2000-2500 jumps people are beginning to get to that stage where ego and innate skills are evening out. At that point in someone's jumping career you'll have also had a friend go in which helps with the ego and decision making part.

If you put in the time to really learn how to skydive you shouldn't need object avoidance lessons in a FJC. No matter what canopy you've flown before a parachute is a parachute. They all have their own nuanced characteristics but the basic principle is the same. Hang out at the Perrine, whip that thing around and figure it out yourself. It doesn't need to be fed to you during a FJC. The muscle memory should already be there when you begin BASE.

Sure, you can learn alot in a BASE environment over time but nothing compared to the ease of gaining hours under a parachute that skydiving allows you to acquire.

The best thing I ever did for myself is sell the BASE Rig I bought when I was 18yrs old with 100 skydives under my belt. I hung it up for personal reasons back then and proceeded to work full time in the skydiving industry for the next 8 yrs before getting another BASE rig and heading to the Perrine with 8000 jumps, a fairly major skydiving injury and a handful of dead friends on my mind. At 18 when I sold my rig it seemed like the end of the world. Eight years later and guess what? The cliffs and bridges were still there and still waiting for me. I'm about to hit a decade of active, incident free BASE jumping and I credit that to many lessons learned over the years at the DZ.

In other words, don't be in a hurry. BASE isn't going anywhere. If anything it keeps getting better and safer.

What would I do differently? Nothing. I wasn't in a hurry and the mistakes I made were minor.

I can feel the general sentiment of people replying to my paragraph being:

"Pffff, listen to this cunt, he's got no skill and he's trying to lecture people.... pfff, if you don't have the piloting skills to be able to turn the canopy around, then you shouldn't be doing BASE... instead of lecturing people on the forums, he should go ask an adult for advice... cunt..."

Yet, rewind a few years back and what would we see? The same arsenic spitting, cool as a cucumber, 1000+ base number, Dr. Pepper sponsored jumper was, one day, that same noob, who wanted to sneak-peak at what it's all about.

Most of us cut corners at some stage, especially in the beginning. Some people do the right thing and go back to sky training after trying BASE for a few jumps off a safe(ish) bridge. Others stay on thinking they’ve got the skill but they don’t. Those are the ones who could really, really benefit from OA training as they hack their way through BASE career. And I just wish that availability of OA training was articulated better by FJC and mentors alike.

Edited to add: I'm not slamming you MSK. You made a good post with solid advice on object avoidance. I'm just making general comments on the merits of a long slow progression being the best way to avoid accidents. Years of experience under all sorts of canopies in all different environments is far superior to 20 jumps in an "object avoidance course". Your claims of skydiving not being good preperation for flying base canopies is just plain wrong.


Exactly, and the idea that breaking yourself is a normal part of BASE progression is directly related to this. Hence Charley's post.
Personally, when it comes to things that can kill me I try to never cut corners. But we all have the right to do things our own way which is the beauty of this activity. I have more important things to do than judge anyone else's decision making skills. Just sharing my experience and observations from 20 yrs of full time jumping. You threw out 500+ skydives as an example of what should be an extremely proficient canopy pilot and from where I'm sitting 500 jumps is nothing and is actually in that dark area of progression where the ego is way bigger than actual skills. I believe the fact that most BASE jumpers these days see 500 jumps as a huge number of skydives is part of the reason we see so many incidents. Afterall, BASE is just an advanced form of skydiving is it not?


^who is this exactly and are they still alive? I think you'd be surprised to find that most of the "top level dudes" you speak of who have had long and incident free careers didn't take the shortcuts but have actually been around for a long time perfecting their skillset spending years at drop zones and are still skydiving regularly.

+1.

Omg, how did I get involved in an argument on the internet... again! :)

All I am saying, in response to OPs question was that dedicated training, in my case, would have been very, very beneficial -- if I was starting again.

I'll draw you an analogy: you said yourself that base is an advanced form of skydiving. So if we were to compare it to motorcycle riding, OA skills would be similar to riding on the back wheel. I have been riding bikes for many, many years now. Almost daily. But I never learned to ride the back wheel. I can raise the front but cannot ride it, balancing the bike with the rear brake pedal. I know the theory but can execute it poorly.

But if I was to take a wheelie course, I would have learned that skill because once a task is disected for me into granular details -- I would become almost proficient at it. This is how my learning ability works.

And so it would not matter how many years of riding I had and whether I rode choppers, dirt bikes or R1s. I would not have learned that skill until I received special training for it.

Same goes for OA canopy handling -- some kids with 100 skydives turn them cunts away from cliffs like pros. Others, with 500+ skydives freeze when facing the wall.

I just thought that it is likely that there are kids out there with learning ability similar to mine who would benefit from OA training if the availability of it was articulated to them earlier in the career. Because saying to such people: go do more skydives and you will pick up the skill eventually may not work. Just like I never learned to wheelie.

Hope it makes sense.

Agree that FJCs aren't strictly necessary, but strongly disagree that one parachute is much like another. There are major differences in the flight characteristics of skydiving canopies and BASE canopies. Calling them nuances underemphasizes these differences. I don't think formal instruction is an absolute necessity, but thinking you're well equipped to go figure to out for yourself because you've done x number of skydives and worked in the parachute industry is a dangerous mentality as well. BASE jumping is not skydiving.

And I don't mean to undercut your experience or devalue the benefits of many many skydives before doing a BASE jump. Only point out that no number of skydives will allow you to become a BASE jumper over a week at the bridge with a guy who lives 8 hours away from you.

Post on the forums less. Not open my computer after consuming alcohol.


My first (and only) skydiving container was purchased new, and sized to my BASE canopy. To date the smallest thing I've flown is a 190 (which was loaded at .9).

Also being naked on my 100th jump. Great decision.

I agree that flight characteristics differ but it's still a parachute with 4 risers and two toggles and it (generally) comes off your back with a pilot chute. When deploying, flying, and landing a parachute in all conditions becomes second nature it's easier to learn the characteristics of a new type of parachute and it's also easier to recognize your own limitations. Generally after a few years in the sport of skydiving most people have flown a number of different types of canopies and reserves.

You misread me. By "figure it out yourself" i just meant getting a canopy turned around quickly and safely. Its a simple concept and with parachute experience and a couple weeks at the bridge anyone should be able to figure out what works for them withoit formal insteuction.
I had a mentor and I think an extensive FJC or mentorship is extremely important no matter how long you've been skydiving. Even someone with 10,000 skydives would never start doing tandem skydives without proper instruction on gear and techniques and the same goes for BASE. I am referring to the mentality that develops as you spend more time in the sport. Anyone who's been around the dz for awhile can attest that you can generally guess a jumpers experience level by their attitude towards everything. It's more about a mental attitude and readiness than actual physical skills. The physical skills are a bonus. When I get asked how many skydives you need before getting into BASE I answer "however long it takes to see at least one good friend die jumping."

Semantics I know but are BASE and skydiving really so different? In the beginning it was experienced skydivers taking their activity to the mountains. Taking it to the next level. I think part of the problem with newer jumpers is the fact that they see it as two distinctly different activities. Time at the DZ will only have positive benefits in the BASE world. I view BASE as nothing but an advanced form of skydiving and I think it's dangerous to tout it as anything different.

I have nothing against FJC's but my ideas on that whole world would be its own long winded thread. I think this is a great thread and I don't want to hijack it with my jumping philosophies. This is just been my experience. Patience and a slow progression is never a bad thing and leads to a level of readiness and experience that cannot be attained in a weekend or two even in a formalized setting.

Let's all try to stick to the spirit of the thread. This is an opinion type answer, opinions will vary and are not necessarily right or wrong. I'd like to get as many answers as possible from different people and not clutter with the usual petty bickering.

1. Id take more B roll. I don't go back and watch video of jumps much, but if i stumble across an extra long video of discussing an exit, or a GoPro accidentally turned on for a hike, I'll watch that. Sometimes you'll catch a conversation with a friend who you can't talk to anymore. Friends are more important than jumps, and it probably too me too long to realize that.

2. someone told me early on to keep a detailed log book, and I'm really glad I did. I just write a brief little blurb, sometimes a sentence, sometimes longer for a special jump. I hear people all the time say they wish they'd kept a log book from the beginning.

+2

1. Find a foam pit and fall bag earlier,

because my exits were weak for years!

2. Pace yourself, a tiny bit of fear is healthy.

Now you're talkin'

Exactly my point. Just not everyone has suitable bridges near them and the importance of spending a week or two at the bridge after FJC was not immediately apparent to me. The thread was "if you had to start over".