Basejumper.com - archive

I guess it is the new name for the Squirrel instructors team.

I would just like to precise some french stuff about this site.

In France to be paid teaching any sport or physical activity you need to have a degree. If the degree does not exists you cannot be paid. This is the law, that's it !

When I see on this site that they are doing some advertising for (illegal) FJC in France, as a member of the french paralpinism association who fight for my sport I get very angry and upset. This is jeopardising the insurance we got.

I know some people are ready to do everything for money and business...

So please just relay this info around you, all the FJC in France are illegal, if you have an accident during these courses and if the insurance company is aware that is was during a course you will probably not be covered.

I will remind also that the paralpinism insurance is covering the jumps only from Earth, so all the bridge's jumps are not covered.

Thank you for reading,

Antoine

Next level of BS! I hope French association will do something about that
You have legal bridges in USA, so don t bring the mess here please.

Bridges a usually legal in France, it's just not allowed to walk on if it's an highway (toll road).
Just the french paralpinism insurance does not cover the jumps from bridges.
The French paralpinism pssociation is not FBA which is owned by one the the Next Level instructor.

No specifics rules about BJ doesn t mean it s legal to jump it.
(fixed for Fba)

who said they are going to your bridges anyways

Actually it is in France.
Noboby has never had receive a fine for jumping a bridge.
But you can receive a fine for walking on the highway because it can distract drivers and be dangerous.

"French locations for fbc", we all know here where it is.
Not "my" bridges, but after all the accidents last season and the bad publicity with authorities and media, we don t need semi official base school in France despite the law mentioned by Antoine and the insurance issue

Lot of things are allowed here until too much bullshit.
It s matter of time...

Agree

I still don't like that a website is doing some promotion for FJC in France where it's illegal.

Squirrel also called Grahams flying "This is the future". They'll end up wiping themselves out, just a question of time until people realize they're only interested in money and what they perceive as "fame".

Good luck to their students, they'll need a LOT of it!

Quick questions for my riled up frenchy friends. Are you saying it's illegal to teach any course for money in France in base because the degree doesn't exist? Has anyone run a fjc in France and charged money in the past? Not trying to start an arguement, just trying to understand the law. I know Rok is a mountain guide etc, but. It sure if that counts for anything.


As far as graham being "the wave of the future" or whatever, his videos were intense and amazing, and I wouldn't say a ton of people were super surprised when he died. Same with uli, same with polli, same with more people this year that will fly aggressively and die in whatever model of wingsuit they choose to die in. I don't really think you can put that on a specific manufacturer. When jokke was pushing hard, I didn't hear a lot of people say "oh how could Phoenix fly support that".

First it's exactly what I'm saying. No degree, no teaching for money. The law is very clear about that.
So people have done it, probably some are still doing it, but they are not doing any public advertising.

Roch is not what is called mountain guide in France, he is "Accompagnateur en Montagne" what I could translate by mountain hikking guide. He cannot take people if rope or any other kind of climbing equipment is required (crampons, ice axe,...).

I agree with you on the second part, the Need for Speed vids where the firsts, now Squirrel is pushing also, no winner here. I think I never saw Tony with that kind of advertising.

Gotcha, I remember going through this a couple years ago in Cham. I was under the impression that base was classified as an "activity" and not a "sport", so you actually don't need a degree to teach it. Did they change this recently?

First of all. so much crying.

Second. Angry swiss guy needs to go away. Not wanted here. worst posts, every time. Every thread, this guy posts the worst most useless shite. Please get lost or act like a man. Thank you.

You're going to have to be much much more specific

Blasts people for "crying", then "cries" about another poster

bahahahahahhahahahha This place is still a shithole..

And this gets truer every day!

It was "activity" and "NOT SPORT", or activity and not "sport" ?
In France skydiving and paragliding are sport, there is no way somebody can say BASEjumping is NOT a sport.
The law applies on ALL "sports or physical activities", not on a list.
For example in France you cannot teach FOR MONEY SlackLine, Ropejump, ...
If I remember well sport means competition. Cave exploring for example is not a sport but it is a physical activity and you need a degree to teach it.
As they are competitions around the world BASE can be consider as a sport. Some people are BASE athletes, hard to say it's "not a sport" nowadays.

Actually there is no country with degree, the difference is that in France you need one to be paid, but every BASE teacher just says that he has the knowledge, nobody has a degree.

Yah that's exactly what im wondering. I think your logic makes 100%sense, but as of 2 years ago we specifically went through the Ministere des Sports and were told that it did not fall under the regulation of "physical activities". Maybe its changed since then, but I guess you could contact them for clarification, or see if squirrel has.

I could and I would ;)

What Iam affraid of is that king of LITTLE details... for a jumping course!?
Of course in life, everyone can progress the mentor also...

But V. Bridge in an Hignway bridge and is not allowed it is just a "petite et cool" tolerance. Making publicity of that bridge with the NAME is really disrespectful for the locals and those who do everything to conserve this spot of freedom.

Some of us who teach BASE have a couple degrees
they are just in other subject matters of course

Seriously though, what if a person had a university
degree in Exercise Physiology? Would that be a
credential You and France think is sufficient?

I ask because I know Steve Blincoe has one and
he used to help train Olympic athletes in Colorado
as well as teach freeflying to SKY jumpers.

The degree must be one corresponding exactly to the sport you want to teach.
You cannot teach tennis if you have a table tennis degree.

You can be world champion in a sport and cannot teach it. Being good at a sport does not mean you will be good at teaching it, that's what the degree is for.

 


I've got a degree in Existential Philosophy, will that do the job?

Copy

So according to France, and You,
zero people in the world are qualified
to teach the sport of BASE jumping...

Since no university in the world has
a degree program in parachuting...

Wait, what if Skydive University in
DeLand, FL decided to offer degrees
in BASE jumping, would the lack of
accreditation cause us to bounce?

At some point I hope you realize that
rules and reality do not always match.

I read Antoine's post as relaying the state of the law in France, not stating his own opinion on instructor qualifications.

That's how i read it too. Also worth pointing out, that it doesn't necesarily mean a University degree, but a recognised qualification awarded by a governing body in France.

Nobody can be teaching BASE Jumping for money / as a job ...
Nothing wrong with mentoring, teaching your friends for beers, but you can't be a Professional BASE teacher ...

I think you can. Just not in France. And also not if you're a random Schkwirl-fanboy in any other part of Europe. At least that I know of!

Yes
The thread is about FJC in France. So when I say nobody, it's nobody in France ...

Yes and no .. The thread was brought up in reference to the para alpinisme insurance then drifted onto courses run involving well known bridges in the country . Large amount of hypocrisy going on , and what seems to be personal dislike of whatever , when the OP runs courses for money in a different country while on (i can only assume) the para alpinisme insurance , any incident would surely follow you back to France .... So pot kettle black.

Just do your own thing ....

At first it was a warning that french paralpinism insurance don t cover bridge jumps and it s forbidden in France to teach any activities for money when you re not qualified (related to the activities) by an association recognized by french gouvernement.
I (and some others) added to this that public advertize to large audience about fbc in France in places (where there re some tolerance for now - but still need to be "stealthy") is really not a good thing, especially after all the shit last season.
That s normal to try to protect places and base activity in France, that s not "crying". And you ll be happy to be able to jump here freely when you ll come...

Hahahah ya ok we have HEAT who apparently has one hand on the keys and another thumping under the desk to this stuff. does he think hes helping? At least patto does something for base if you count counting dead people

We got little swiss girl who mouth is so full of phoenix fly jizz that all she can do is type not even talk. just swallow it quit gurgling you little fangirl. Although we all are impressed how you are happy to sacrifice your hole life to sucking off one brand and make yourself look like a complete twat in the process by trying to put down who your daddy tells you is the bad guys. You should quit switzerland for east Europe where you can get more of the dick you crave. I can only imagine what a little puss you are in real life. Hey not attacking you just pointing out what the men are thinking about you and I hope we meet in person this spring in LB so we can talk about your opinion of my friend Graham.

So now so HEAT doesn’t flame me with his hotness I will contribute to the comunity and tell you we got antoine laporte who started this thread because he is www.rbaseg.eu a teacher for base tracking and a seller of base gear and hes so jealous of his little French friend who got on the cool kids school. Everyone realizes its petty jealousy and his post here is total shit but we’re here for drama not to actually point out facts right? the polite way to say antoines little tantrum is conflict of interest. but that is too nice for this guy. Take your cryfest to a pussie french forum and take the swiss knobber with you please F off. jealous little girls on the internet.

And antoine if you think posting here and creating publicity for something that might hurt base in france is going to help base in france then you are so full of shit. Do you see the problem there or not? just admit it you are a jealous little bitch. If you actually wanted to help instead of just slagging off a rival you wouldn’t be posting evidence in a forum you dipshit. No one thinks you are helping base anywhere in the world by complaining on here and being a little rat snitch. You talk about safety and freedom to try and cover your bone picking. The entire thread you started here is the strategy of someone who thinks they are clever but actually…no.

Also since everyones just here for drama anyway your welcome for it you TITS J and to be clear I love HEAT AND PATTO you boys are all right.

Love you too man.

First: who are you ? Like name, when you insult people at least do it good !

Second: I do not teach tracking in France, and you know why ? It's illegal ! I actually said to Roch to go to Switzerland when he first told about creating an FJC.

3rd: I'm selling suit, what's the problem with that ? I'm retired from french army and I have a pension, I don't need to work to live. I'm making suits just because it's fun. I have all the time I want, I'm free which is way better than money.

4th: if you think it's about Squirrel I can assure you: Squirrel is making very good products.

5th: yes I think that telling people it's illegal will help.

6th: do you think it's right to do advertising about something illegal ?

7th: I love you too

8th: I love you too

"E.Ryde" you re the only drama queen here. Keep your insult for your school playground.

I didn't mention 'crying' . I just think the international forum is not really the place for the FBA insurance discussion and it does seem like a personal issue against the company (which I'm not a general fanboy of either ) . Anything of this nature when its not in a regionalised forum is susceptible to come across as anti whoever is setting up the course . For me I'm curious about scaling of pricing etc if its organising fee for vitesse et virage weekends I'm a fan . Had a lot of fun at them ;-)

Graeme

FBA is not paralpinism association.

As the site which is doing the advertising for this FJC in France is international I do think it's the good place to talk about it.

I don't really care if people think it's personal. Wehn I have issue with Squirrel I just write it, I don't have to use alternative ways.

This is just about an international site doing advertising about illegal stuff in France. As you can book you FJC in France through this site wherever you come from I thought here was a good place to warn people.
You can book a Wingsuit course in Chalons on the site, it's a skydiving one and it's legal (the instructor has the wingsuit instructor rating because yes, you need it).

This is obviously a throw away login just to stir shit with.

I've disabled it.

I'm with you brother, This whole thread stinks to high shit of the whining class of the free market. I'm not saying its about money for all of them, but clearly theres a lot of butt hurt going around those fiscally vested in the situation.

Also, I had no idea a few base rigs and a website made a person an enforcement agent of a government organization under french law. If so then french politics are much more progressive than i realized, but if not then a bunch of people on this thread just sound like a bunch of narcs. Seems to me there is regularly a bit more of a professional response to settling grievances between colleges or competitors than blasting potentially damaging shit all over the internet.

Fuck it, I'm more of the "Burn it all to the ground and I'll jump the ashes" type anyway. A very wise man once said "What we do is a sport, in the same way robbing liquor stores is a sport" Trying to rebrand us as Paralpinists and legitimize the sport is like herding cats and trying to sell them as cattle. All your going to do is pull your fucking hair out and nobodies going to buy your shit in the end anyway.

Lastly I would like to thank you Ryde personally for helping lower the level of decorum here the back to the place it should be. Sometimes it feels like me and the whining swiss fellatiator who started jumping last week are fighting this battle alone. The fight is hard and, gotta be honest, the company's not that great.

RIP JewBag

It would be nice to have legal sites to argue about and protect. US guys I guess are used to having to sneak around and break the rules at least as far as wing suit jumps go for the most part.
Anyways this is base jumping how many people do you expect to follow your rules? whoevers they are

I'm not in the "after me I don't care" way of thinking and living.
Have fun with whatever this post will become now

I don't believe you are at all , however the thread did come across that way ..... There was a cross contamination at the start where it became more about a company than the issue of insurance .... French forum would provide more productive / civilised / re;event replys about the insurance issue and less about the brand :-)

i may have got more interested in stirring the pot :-/

Graeme

It will probably become some next level shit!

Probably will get next level shit when you get called out for mentoning the president of the association negatively on an international forum unless you've been equally as active acquiring us insurance . France assurance is the best the base word can offer so to be nasty against one of the Dons ; sorry not on... Be nasty against squirrel thats cool most of the us reps are dicks anyway but okay ....not Mr bad night ;-)

Graeme

For the record I truly believe our own inability to regulate our "sport" or organize will be the only saving grace for BASE Jumping. I believe the death of BASE jumping will be the first rig sold in REI, not the day they shut down legal jumping in LB.

And while I personally will always follow local etiquette for established sites, for the sake of the future of our sport I say Burn Baby Burn.

 

I have no idea what you're saying, but I love the way your saying it!!!

<3 <3 <3

What would it actually take to create a degree rating in the teaching of BASE jumping that will be recognised by the French government?

Thanks Antoine for your comments.

A question for any french jumpers with a legal background: if you were paid for a service (teaching base), and your student went in, could this be culpable manslaughter given your activities are not legal in france? I wonder if any of the base courses have liability insurance for this type of event in countries were IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to teach, or would they pack and run?

I just read all 52 posts in this Thread, it gave me fucking headache .
.

Hey Neil,

that´s a very valid question, very interested to hear the response! Just as a additional comment on this : I have heard first hand info from a person who took a paid FJC in France that their instructor told them on the beginning of the course that if someone goes in, nobody says anything about a paid course but they were "just a bunch of guys jumping together"...

A quick search and I have found another BASE course in France, run by a well known French jumper, so maybe the laws have changed recently?

Stay home you little bitch hiding behind a throw-away login, and keep your threats with you. None of you is welcome.

As there is some real questions I will try to answer.
There is an other school with a FB page, same for him it's illegal.
It came out 1 year ago and I already said to him and on the french forums what I think about.
You can put the link: https://www.facebook.com/momobaseschool/?fref=ts
If it's not this one please tell who !

In case of death (or very big injuries) during the courses there are 3 cases:
- it's from the bridge, the insurance will not cover. The family will mahe some seach because it's always like this and at this end you can be judge for "killing somebody without wanting it" (litteral translation of french). In this case you have to pay everything (millions if there is handicap at the end) and you go to jail for some years (not so much)
- it's from a cliff, insurance will cover and usually not asking anything because there is no school, it's not legal, so why seaching. Unless they have been searching a bit and they got on this website and see that...
- everybody shut is mouth and you're good to continue...

no its another one

I want to know !

If you need a degree to teach - how do skydiving dropzones work in France? Does every tandem, SL and AFF instructor have a university degree in skydiving?

Sorry for my poor english:
no degree but rating

how official has the rating to be? E.g if we talk about Wingsuit coaches - e.g. Phoenix Fly coaches - are they ok to teach and take money for First Flight Courses?

There is a good story about that.
At first the only rating for WS coaching in France was the FlyYourBody one.
I took 6 month and a lot of letters to the PF coachs to get their rating validate by the French skydive federation.
Until this validation they were not able to coach for money and to do the First Flight Courses.

FlyYourBody is the offical advisor ...

Thanks for the answer. Tough market :)

Just to be very precise, if you have the PF WS coach you cannot come to a French dropzone and start to teach for money.
You first have to "translate" your rating in French which is more like a registration, and after you will be officially able to teach on a French dropzone for money.
It's fast but it has to be done.

Is there a rule/law about getting reimbursed for "expenses"?

Flights, hotels, hire cars can be VERY expensive at times ;)

Laters

Julian

Yes it is. At least for associations, I don't know exactly the law for private companies.

You are not "paid" if it's the "expenses", but it has to be for the real "expenses" not just an estimation (bills).

It's usually the way the people are doing courses in associations, for free but with the "expenses" reimbursed (can be gaz, hotel, food, gear)

So, with a little creative accounting, say gear wear and tear, advertising, gas, food, hotels, etc it would be quite easy to hide pay/profit should the need arise.
I am also guessing "ground school" and packing lessons could be instructed on-line or at location that is not on French soil and could therefore be invoiced separately and for profit.
In other words, the actual jumps are not charged but prior instruction is and it takes place on line, well at least officially.

You still have an insurance issue but I doubt ANY FJC in the world has any type of cover that would pay out if the shit ever hit the fan .

You are probaly right, unfortunatly

With the big amount of jumpers now we can t avoid to have some selfish one. Hopfully majority of us are not like this and try to do what it is needed to keep basejumping possible for ourselves and for the one who will follow us.

I wonder what percentage of first jump course students worldwide are now paying for instruction vs old school mentoring. Id imagine that number has gone up dramatically. It definitely has in the US, and im sure france isn't far behind. If you can make money doing something you do for fun anyway...

where was Rami teaching his tracking courses, and where does Andy do his, and Douggs too? Aren't some of those jumps in France? From what i read Rami and Andy did a bunch of Dolomites and various jumps around Italy, did anything happen in France?

French law/legality is a VERY valid point in this situation, especially when students are paying for these courses.......

I don't think so.

Our tracking instructor had a conversation with Roch about that last summer (at Brento), and the general up shot was that commercial teaching in France wasn't going to be something that would make the FBA happy.

BTW, has anyone verified that Roch is actually teaching in France (not in Croatia, or Italy, or Portugal, or any of the other possible European locations)?

I'd be surprised if he was doing so and hadn't actually worked out the legal details on it.

Repeated for emphasis.

If no one has investigated this, it certainly ought to be done, hopefully by someone who's actually French.

 

I give a fuck, yes I do.
And I'm good with myself.
What about talking about the idea that when you are doing something you should think about the consequences for others first before thinking about making money ?

Impossible if your only motivation is to make (more) money and you give a shit about the people!

Your logic is uncertain.

At first what make you think you can speak for "everyone",
In France it is allowed to jump (except private properties) so yes we give a fuck to keep it this way. Some people are quite happy to come here jumping because it s illegal in their own country, so respect that. Look what happened in Chamonix when some people do shit! Thats not the same to "break the rules" where it is already forbidden vs doing shit where it s allowed (with some few rules).
Take it up with gouvernement? Yes some here are working with locals authorities and what is the message we give to them when some break the rules this way? Gouvernement have no reason to let us jump, no interest on it. It s in OUR interest so it s up to US and base company to do it well.

Organized instruction by knowledgeable people is always a plus for any activity, especially one where people die if they may too many mistakes learning how to do it, even in semi-outlaw activities such as BASE.

That said, formal instruction -- with advertising, listed courses, curricula, and instructors -- then falls with the parens patriae purview of the governmental unit in whose jurisdiction it occurs because the students do not necessarily have the knowledge to know if they are being properly trained and looked after.

That is what is at the root of the French law, which is little different than similar laws around the world in general scope.

So while it's great generally that the Squirrel boys are doing this, they do need to up their game on the regulatory end or they risk creating the same kind of clusterfink on display in this thread.

Whether that means avoiding France for the time being or doing something to get French (or anyone else's) regulatory approval is up to them, but as the sport continues to mainstream and widen it appeal and participant base, this element is just as important as making sure your feet go through your leg straps when you put on your suit.

Thanks.

Edited to not feed the troll. Carry on :)

Antoine, you make good tracking suits but your English sucks The word you are looking for is either 'qualification' or 'diploma'. Degree is for academia and rating is for Tripadvisor

Yes my english sucks !

I was thinking it might be worth listening to the French guy about what's going on in France - rather than people from other countries whose most intelligent advice is 'ur gay', 'who cares', etc?

Im actually thinking there's nothing wrong with a local trying to stop potential objects being burned and the authorities getting their backs up about some money being made when it shouldn't be.

Good BASE jumpers protect their scene. Just like warchild from Point Break. Stay off my wave.

You totally failed in seeing Antoines point here. I give a fuck because the hard work from french jumpers and the FPA put in has led to, amongst other things, insurance for base jumpers in France. Not every person in this sport is totally ego-fueled... You sure as hell don't speak for everyone

Heat and everyone.
The OP is something that needs to be taken up with local government. He comes here singling out Sqrl as Darth Vader in the all mighty universe of France. What I mean in giving a fuck is that he brings a personal issue to the forums vs really taking it to the governing body where law is implemented. This thread by the OP was really started to attack squirrel and not his brand or his guiding/teaching that he also does in EU.

If you want to make people "aware" of something and educate use a shot gun style approach: Give a generalized statement saying " hey everyone just to keep things legal in france please do not run FJC in the country w/o the following required documents, ect..."

INSTEAD of

" So Sqrl is now teaching some Next level blah blah blah, and Sqrl did this and Sqrl did that "

I'm not fancy for any brand. But when a manufacture (Antoine) comes fwd intentionally slamming one brand(Sqrl) in many threads "technical forum" It would seem to ME that Antoine has more of an axe to grind with Sqrl.

I have absolute respect for APEX and Asylum because they NEVER have bashed another manufacture in their companies history.
I care that BASE remain legal in Europe. I really do, but Antoine posts are more and more singling out Sqrl as a personal problem than maybe an actual one.

Agreed, all would be better of without the brand bitttering bullshit. But he still comes across with a very valid point regarding legality and that it could lead to issues down the road, possibly impacting the insurance etc. And that would be a damn shame!

He blamed Squirrel to make advertizing on it. I never read him talking about their tracking suit.
His reaction against fjc in France was the same with other guy who did it. But the other guy didn t made an "official" website about so he talked with him/them directly or via another forum/fb...

You said it is "something that needs to be taken up with local government". So it s up to Squirrel, if they want to make fjc in France, to do it BEFORE doing it. And it's up to us, jumpers to do things the best way possible!

PS: Criticize a brand/ product on some specific point is not bashing if you have argument
PS2: Squirrel is the only brand who criticize the others brands on their website...
PS3: Anyway it was not the point, Squirrel or anything else, it s the same for the subject here (French law)!

Many technical forum ? Hum... 1 is not many and saying that the best PC in the world is the Snatch is bashing Squirrel ?
You can ask anybody I talk with about suits and I never even told that Squirrel suits are not good ones. They are making very good products.

Did I attack the site about any other courses than the FJC in France ?
Anyway YES I attack Squirrel/NEXT LEVEL (it's the same) on this specific thing because it is on their site.
Before writting here I send them a message that I will write here if they didn't wipe it on their site. No answer so I wrote here.

I got your point, but you do not have to tell shit about me to tell it. You would just have prefer something more anonymous.

I will not stop to tell what I think just because I'm a manufacturer, that does not make any sense, unless you are afraid that people will not buy things from you because of your opinions.
I'm retired from the army, I have a pension so I'm not making suits for living, just because it's fun and I like it.

If someone, manufacturer or not, is doing something that could jeopardise site access or insurance in a particular part of the world then yes I think that's a problem, and he is right to post about it.

I thought Antoine was very diplomatic, and considering English is his 2nd language highlighted some concerns about paid FJC (or other courses) in France. I think the only people who interpretted his comments as knocking a particular manufacturer or group of jumpers are those sensitised as it may impact them.

Heres to a safe 2017.

That Squirrel organise BASE instruction is in the logic to sell more products, they are not the first to do this as Pressurized, and not the first in skydiving too (FYB, PF...) with specific instructors.

What for me is dangerous is that something is about lie.
> First there is not inssurance for BASE and in France after a very long energy taken we can be covered for mountain jumping throught our associtation of Paralpinisme (http://www.paralpinisme.fr) and where Antoine is one board menbers.
> Second you could be a good wingsuit flyer but it doesn't say that you are a good instructor for BASE. And when I see some photos on "Rock Drop" facebook (I post on begening of this thread here) I'm very afraid !!! And it's a NEXT LEVEL instructor! Everyone have seen the video of one student of Douggs forgetting is leg straps and just stop 1s before doing his rool over!!! There were cameras everywhere but eyes in the pockets for all! Are these "famous" instructors so professional? What is the real content of their instruction, or it is just jumping houlala?
> Third, naming spot as V bridge is very unrespectful for all the locals jumpers and community that preserve from many many years this access (ILLEGAL) free by tolerance of authorities.

So just many question that NEXT LEVEL put under light. Has everyone to dare the right questions. That is way of BASE. That's all.

Before you say one more word, I think you own an apology to Douggs, IT WAS NOT HIS STUDENT! Just some random dude that happened to be at the bridge at the same time.

So much drama in Base, I guess thats what happenes when money is starting to be involved.

if you are going to call people out you should really get your facts straight

You are right, mea culpa Douggs!

YES!

What it is important to understand, and perhaps it make some of you laughting from view of Trump tower, is that some French jumpers are trying to save free access to jump spots for many years and this is the way of Paralpinism association. Each rules are different due to the law of each country.

What will be decide in Chamonix by authorities will be for all our spots in France. We lost a marvellous spot close Toulouse in the south, now wingsuiting and base jumping are illegal but climbing hicking and HUNTING not!!! Associations of birds protection have a lot of power, enough power to change the laws, this is what happened on that spot. Many friends will be in justice in front of a judge and had to pay a lot of money.

Just to say better we will have respect each other better it will be. I'm not against schools of base or any manufacturers, just that money doesn't take the soul of our sport.

For years almost all BASE instruction was manufacturers trying to sell gear. In recent years we've moved away from that, so that for a while Apex was the only manufacturer still using instruction as a sales tool. The pendulum is obviously swinging back in the other direction now.

In Switzerland the legal situation is very similar to france.
after a canyoning accident in 1999 the government established the "Bundesgesetz über das Bergführerwesen und Anbieten weiterer Risikoaktivitäten". (Law about Mountaineering Guides and other risky activities)
BASE is not mentioned but "similar risky activities"

https://www.admin.ch/.../20091883/index.html

Basically to teach a risky activity for money a rating is needed.
The rating has to be approved by the government.

So far there is no precedence.
But if someone sues a teacher, he could get in some real trouble.

i don't really care, just for the teachers to know.

Antoine -

Now would be a good time to mention my new University of BASE, offering BAs in BASE to those who qualify for admission. Mandatory pre-admission qualifications: pay me $5,000. Courses are held online through our partner, the University of Youtube and last for ten minutes. Then, I ship your BA in BASE to frame and hang in your office and voila! Now the French school is legal. I guess I should be telling this to Mike Steen and Matt Gerdes...

-Kay Dee

Kenny, the idea is good, but this in not how the French system works. Unless your BASE university gets delegation from the French ministry of Sports to organise and deliver base teaching ratings.

I'm just taking the piss man. That would be hilarious though!

https://www.facebook.com/...883779668958/?type=3

Find the mistake...
Just to say that not all the NEXT LEVEL instructors are able to provide safe courses.
This is a direct attack to NEXT LEVEL who are not checking all their instructors capabilities.

Your growing list of public grievances against NEXT LEVEL has been updated. Why not take this up with the company, or the one instructor you seem to take such issue with? One still frame with no context is difficult to judge the entire safety or comprehensiveness of a base course. Can you please elaborate on the critical error or incident that resulted that would bring into question the instructors capabilities?

Bridle routing

I correct my post that was not written like I wanted it to.
Bridle route is bad. And on this page there are at least 3 pictures with the same mistake...
If you want to survive don't go to this FJC.

Semantics aside, can someone explain to me how this tuition works? There are 25 instructors all over the world. This seems much different to the one person running a school with some experienced people there to help out from time to time.

How do people get put in contact with the instructors? Is there a guide that instructors are issued that they stick to or is it simply a company forming a structure with sub contractors who get their cut?

I only just took the time to actually visit the site. Sorry.

I agree, there is definitely a picture of a guy with sub optimal routing for a handheld jump. Don't know if he had it tucked and it fell down on the climb over, or he did that intentionally. There are many pictures of correctly configured handheld jumps, which leads me to believe he is teaching a more correct/safe way of going handheld. Goes back to my point, its really hard to say based on a still frame from a facebook that "If you want to survive dont go to this base course". Im all for sweeping criticisms, but I just like to make sure theyre backed up with hard facts ;)

Please let me know which base courses provide the survival guarantee.

I don't think I can convince you.
Whatever, 3 pictures intentionaly posted on a professional FB page with the same mistake is for me a proof that the guy is not aware of making a mistake.
If a FJC instructor does not know how to route a bridle correctly for 100% of his students he is clearly dangerous.
Now if you think it's not an issue because 90% is good you are dangerous too.

On the picture I linked if the student throw is PC a bit too much in the front, the bridle will go around his arm and because it's an FJC the student might clearly panic, and die...

I dont really need convincing either way. I just want to make sure that you realize that as a manufacturer and an instructor that claiming an another instructor/manufacturer is so inept that they are likely to endanger their students lives is probably one of the most serious allegations you could make. Im not sure that your dislike of the course location or the pictures you linked are sufficient evidence to support something like that.

Perhaps NEXT LEVEL developed a more standardized curriculum since those photos were shot based on those probably 10,000+ jumps of experience of its other BASE instructors.

Just bored and enjoying playing devils advocate. It warms my heart to see the french fighting over a slider down bridge! What happened to the good old "do some jumps from a Paraglider and go to maglan" FJC? Times are changing!

I don't get your exact point.

What I am sure of is that if you are not thinking it's dangerous is for me the same as thinking that it is not dangerous, there is no middle point for me here.

I guess you will let a guy with this bridle routing jump telling him it's ok if it's only one of 10000 ?

Bahahaha, clearly a BASE course aint worth a hair on a donkeys ass if it doesn't its very own professional troll. I mean really, Tom has Collin, Brandon has Matt, and now Squirrel has you.

Have you considered buying some velour track suits and hosting a Player Haters Ball? Cause let me know if you are and I'm there! Me and Player Hating go way back like spinal cords and car seats.

And for the record, All FJCs are gayer than AIDS. They are a crutch invented by the oxygen lobby for those not willing to go out and die like a man.

No one here able to answer my question?

I'm almost sure that it is just a site where all the people involved are puting their schedule together.
All these guys are Squirrel's people (retailers or sponsored).

You are my fuckin hero ! Do you have a FBJC ?

 Fuck yes I do! It entails me taking 1000$ from you then a long voice mail intricately describing how and why hank williams would tell you to nut up and find a 300' guide tower to get her done.

Ps. I feel like I was unfair to homosexuals with my discriprion of FJCs, to be clear I meant gay in the since of being lame. I generally respect homosexuals more than FJC takers.


Pps. Send me your money, I'll get you set up right.

Ppps. Huck, does this mean I'm welcome in northern utah again? Thought I burned those bridges by association half a decade ago. Reguardless, let me know the second you find yourself on the western slope, I have a guest house waiting for ya, and enough speedriding on my land to make a winter trip worth it. Also, I need someone to chat with about jumps I thought I opened years ago outside of Provo. I need someone to bring me back to reality before spread any more bullshit about things you probably jumped years before. Cheers
Pppps. I really don't hate fags, promise.

My understanding is that it's more of a referral service than a school. I think the purpose is to provide advertising and route students to specific instructors with the purpose of marketing the gear that all the instructors are sponsored.

Maybe these instructors have a common goal in mind, to actually offer training and coaching to people seeking it and are all willing to work with each other...and a manufacturer.

Maybe we feel its worth our time to educate people so our "activity" doesn't go the way of the dodo.

Maybe what we need is less people fighting all the time over petty shit and more constructive cooperation.

just maybe...

Much Love, Antoine

You mean, kinda like Skyride?*





















* Sorry, couldn't resist.

Maybe the structure should check that the instructors are enough competent to train or coach before putting them in the system.

Maybe the structure should run an instructor course before running jumpers courses because this is where education really starts.

Maybe cooperation start always by ourselves and not by the others.

Maybe you should look again to the link above and think it could be your friend, because it could have been mine.

Maybe if time was so much close to business...

Maybe...

That was my read into it. It's not a business as much of a collaboration, but it appears that Squirrel is incurring the cost/work of managing the collaboration in exchange for potential gear sales via instructor referrals.

I think any time experienced education is introduced into the sport it's a good thing and I commend Squirrel's efforts to educate jumpers but let's be clear: There is a profit motive here.

I'm not knocking people making money, but let's not pretend this exists solely for the well-being of the sport. If that were the case, why would this hidden forum exist?

http://nextlevel.ws/knowledge-base

To keep the trolls out?

Well...yes. But the definition of "troll" is important here.

It also filters out input that's derived from other credible sources. Other athletes, manufacturers, and new jumpers from other courses with valid questions.

It basically washes away all information outside of the Squirrel-approved curriculum.

This is not a critique of their curriculum. Maybe it's perfect. Maybe it's actually "the cleanest and most informative BASE and wingsuit information page on the entire internet." Matt and Mike are great guys, highly knowledgeable, and they are raising the bar in this sport in many areas. They deserve to be applauded.

But maybe, if the spirit of this is education and cooperation, then other credible and vetted sources will be allowed to participate...even if they don't always fall into line.