Basejumper.com - archive

Well it doesn't

I belive the 1:35 part takes the dumbass cake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU0aEQ3PAG0

If he had a wingsuit on he would be fine

I'm not sure any of those count as fails in their book.

Lee

Especially that whole turning 90 degrees through deployment. Seems to be just how they do things

What's going on with that canopy at 35s? It turned similarly to when stalling on rears and dropping one, except he wasn't doing that?

Can't figure it out

Stalled turn. You can see the canopy begins falling backwards on the jumpers right followed by the stall surge when he lets up the input. Probably due to the aggressive input before the canopy had enough airspeed.
Essentially behaves as you described except for the fact it was initiated by aggressive toggle input on one side only. Another time you will see stalled turns is when people try to turn on deep braked approaches.

That + his canopy has quite a bit of jumps on it without a reline so the A lines streched far out beyond the canopy trim setting.

Interesting. Never seen a canopy before stall and flick around so quick when digging a single toggle.

Ive never seen lines that have stretched before

I'd have to say burying a toggle to nearly your freaking knee has more of an effect than how many jumps the canopy has on it eh?

He popped both toggles, immediately let one up and while burying the other. It's how you do a snap-turn if you get on the toggles fast enough (one side stalls while the other surges and you helicopter around quickly)....but after an aggressive input like that you should *in general* return to ~half brakes. If you watch the video, you'll see his PC is actually in front of his canopy for a second after the turn. Right after finishing the 180, if he'd brought his left toggle back down to half brakes and his right toggle back up to half brakes, it wouldn't have surged.

Fun video to watch :) Thanks for sharing!

Now you have :-) Probably wouldn't have happened if the canopy was at maximum airspeed. Like I said it is more likely when people are trying to maneuver from deep brakes and take one side of their canopy into a stall.

It's what dacron does, that's why we use it. Incidentally it is worse on dyed dacron. I have seen lines stretch several inches on a single jump.

Would have definitely reduced the stall surge (even deeper than half would be better). Parachutes 101.

Aha, that's the bit of the puzzle i was missing. I was only looking at the toggle whipping and didn't really consider the surging from popping the toggles. It all makes sense now.

Yes, i can get my canopy to do a dirty helico doing that, and before i turned into a risers person when practising avoidance i'd stab the brakes before letting a toggle, which is effectively the same.

It was the apparent "simply yarding on a toggle from full flight" that didn't quite make sense to me to provide that response from the canopy, but yes, with low airspeed right after deployment and the surge from releasing the toggles i can see how that will work.

yes I meant a permanent stretch I know they stretch on openings but then go back to spec.
Sliders that rub on lines over time heats up the lines and shrinks the lines.
I've just never seen a lines set out of trim from being to long.

Really only a concern with Spectra/Dyneema line which is made of polyethylene a.k.a. plastic. Dacron is made from polyester. I don't have numbers but it doesn't shrink in the same fashion as Spectra. Vectran isn't gonna be bothered by your slider at all, I have seen multiple slider grommets worn through by Vectran lines.

It happens. In reality though, on massive BASE canopies, you would probably never notice trim issues.

Oh but you do
I've seen it on 2 different canopies, both with 300+ jumps on a single lineset. Easiest to notice during short slider down jumps, with DBS. First the vertical sink rate noticeably increases before you poop the toggles, that eventually the canopy stalls on deployment. Remedy by using shallower brake settings if you can't reline right away.

What colour Dacron, white or dyed? Canopy size? Jumper weight?

Makes sense. Stalling on opening makes me poop my toggles too Also if the A-lines stretch out it will deform the most important part of the airfoil.

White. Troll DW 280 and 265, about 80 kilos flight weight.

I put about 700 jumps on my blackjack before relining it and never noticed a difference in the opening but I don't have my brakes set close to stall

Any particular reason for doing that on solid SD?

Yes. Originally about 6 years ago I had an hour long conversation with Martin Tilley about brake settings for the black jack I was ordering. We went over weights and setting and theories. The short of it is that if you have a little bit of forward speed the faster you are going to be able to turn the canopy around.
After years of jumping and testing and a few sd 180s on cliffs I have never had a problem turning them around down to go and throw delays.
Im a toggle guy and quick on reactions.
Might not be the best option for newer jumpers or riser guys.
This is my personal preference.
I jump my new outlaw in shallow brakes on sd jumps because I feel they are set too deep in deep brakes.
Any questions feel free to pm me

Can you definite "faster" as you are using it in this context?

Fewer seconds of time elapsed?

yes less elapsed time.

Wouldn't the more important metric be to minimize distance traveled, while maximizing time to impact?

I've recently heard multiple people advocating the use of shallow brakes on solid slider down objects, and would like to understand the reasoning.

If wind is moving you toward the object strike, executing the required degrees of heading correction in the minimum elapsed time would be critical.

Are we seriously discussing a scenario of a slider down basejump off a solid object, into a headwind, and with a shallow brake settings?

Because if we are, either I'm getting too old for this shit, or... well the thought kind of just drops there

For me it has always been how do you want your canopy to behave on opening and what type of control do you want over your canopy on opening. As well as being aware of those facts and conducting your procedures accordingly. I have never been sold on the uber DBS because I prefer to have a canopy that is flying and not one that is on the edge of stalling. That being said I wouldn't advocate shallow brakes either as I believe the open surge to be problematic for a variety of reasons as well. And of course there is the fact that my way is the only correct way.

Come by the school. I have lots of canopies with lines that have stretched, and the stretch is usually asymmetric so it can really mess with the trim.

The only real way to see it is to lay the canopy down and directly compare line lengths with a brand new version of the same canopy.

It was the only immediately obvious scenario I could come up with where shallow brakes would be desirable when jumping a solid, slider down object.

It's not a condition I would personally choose to jump in, but I've certainly seen people do it.

Recently I've seen it used in a couple of cliff-strike videos, funnily enough.
I don't get it either.

If you're packing for on heading opening and you get one, it's great. So, I guess it's that personal choice thing that seems to be kinda dumb, but it's certainly a choice.

Skydiver and lurker here, so forgive me if the question is stupid.

But what happens at 0:50? He goes out PilotChute-in-Hand, releases but then reaches for the BOC and pulls... "something"?! Not sure what's going on and can't quite figure it out.
Thank you.

What is going on is some janky-ass sketchy shit...

I'd say it was a *practice* stowed pull during an ACTUAL jump that he's actually going hand-held on...off a cliff...while pretending he's being attacked by a swarm of killer bees in freefall

Uhm.
That makes sense (well, not really, I guess!).
Thank you for the explanation.