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Just curious on everyone's opinion on how high an object needs to be in order to safely track away from it.

I honestly don't understand the question.

How high it needs to be to safely track away as opposed to what, safely falling next to it in boxman?

Or are you asking about the height where seperation from the object outweighs the better heading performance of a shorter delay slider down?

Or are you asking about the rockdrop and start needed to get tracking before the profile gets really positive?

In all three instances the answer really depends on the object, and in the second and third it really depends on the jumper in question as well.

  running launch or standing launch is a big difference on clearance . but in general you will not even start to gain the beginning of forward drive with body positioning till beyond a 4 Sec. delay freefall .
So your object ( height question ? ) should be based off that .
.

So more specifically, there are about 30 A's, all about 1 hour from me, that are 500ft+. However, they are all guyed. It would bring me better peace of mind to be able to track a little away from the tower to reduce the chances of a possible strike. I figured you would need at least a few seconds of free fall to get enough airflow to make tracking possible, and I was unsure of how long it would actually take.

Thanks for clarifying. I think a question like this is really best answered in person by a mentor or instructor. Not because it couldn't, in theory, be answered in a forum. But, this question pertains to the most basic concepts that should be covered one-on-one before you attempt to do something like this which will likely result in your death.

read that last sentence again please.

If you have not been educated already in the answer to this question, there are probably many other vital areas of safety and technique that have been overlooked, as well. It is impossible for people on this forum to tell, which additional aspects of an antenna jump, you need some guidance on. So perhaps you can understand if some people don't give you the kind of responses you were hoping for.

So even if you get some answers to your questions here, I think most people here who have a few jumps under their belt, are made extremely uncomfortable by the nature of your question. That includes me. If you are asking just out of academic curiosity, that is one thing. But if you have a rig and google maps and are actually thinking of driving out to one of these antennas soon, you really need to call "time out" and re-think your entire plan before you die tragically.

I'm being absolutely serious.

One of the best answers I have read on this page in a while..

Listen to it.

While I do appreciate your honesty and concern, this post was designed for another tool to be placed in my "tool bag". I am incredibly new to the sport with only 16 jumps, all at Twin Falls, and currently seeking a mentor in my area. While I am waiting for someone to take me under their wing, I have been spending probably too much time on this website trying to learn as much as possible, and this was one of the many questions that I could not find while browsing through the hundreds of posts found here. While I do not plan on jumping without the supervision of someone experienced, I also do not see the harm in becoming as well versed in the sport as possible until that day comes, and I'm sure my mentor would appreciate that because it would prevent me from asking them the hundred questions I have already answered from reviewing the forum.

Yes.

As you dont have a mentor, your first point of call would be your instructor? He will have a better idea of your skill set and as you know each other, his opinion should hold more weight than the people on here?

Good on you for attempting to obtain knowledge, and yes, continue looking for a mentor. What area are you looking for. Just because there aren't people on basejumper, doesn't mean there aren't basejumpers in your area.

As for your initial question, you just asked about two of the most technically demanding aspects of base jumping. 1. Subterminal tracking, and 2. Slider down freefallable guy wired antennaes.

Your ability to start tracking and make significant distance from the object depends on a lot of factors. Actual height of the object, poised vs running exit, slick vs two piece track suit vs onesie, perceived ability to track, and even actual ability to track. In addition to these, for your specific objects, you need to ask yourself, how long will I actually be in freefall for, and will that time be enough to start significant movement away from my object (hint, from 500 ft, about 3-4 seconds, and no).

The second aspect of this would be freefalling a low guy wired antennae, which is quite possibly the most technical type of jump in all of base jumping. I would bet there are at least 10x the number of people doing 5 second wingsuit exits regularly than freefalling low guy wired antennaes regularly. Wind direction, number of wires, distance wires extend out from the tower, the list goes on. Off headings on slider down guy wire towers get can get spicy in a hurry. I have probably a dozen different towers I jumped earlier in my base career that fit this criteria. The last one I jumped was about 5 years ago, 240 ft hand held. Had a 90 left and actually flew between the tower and the wire before I even had a chance to correct my off heading. Unscathed by complete luck, and made the decision not to jump low guy wired towers any more after that.

The overall answer to your question would be, hold off on jumping these type of towers until you have a bit more experience and someone to help analyze and walk you through getting ready to do this kind of jump. Good luck and take your time!

I have been in contact with one of my instructors. She believes that if I wait for the right winds, that this would be a very safe jump for me to make. However, I do want to wait for a mentor to help me make my first jump from an A. This would just make me feel better on the inside. However, if I can not find a mentor within a reasonable amount of time, my itch and new found passion for this sport will more than likely drive me to do a jump on my own.

I appreciate the information. My preference would be to not free fall anything under 300 ft. I would either prefer a PCA or static line for anything lower. Now with you decision not to jump low guyed towers; will you not free fall them, or do you just stay away from them all together?

I know many people, some who might even be reading this now, who can tell stories about how they couldnt wait, and then wound up waiting for months, and sometimes even years, to heal from injuries so they could jump again. I still will static line guy wired towers, just lost interest in freefalling them.

Compromising progression for timeliness sets a poor standard for future growth. If you do it now, you're probably going to do it when you freefall low underhung cliffs or strap on a wingsuit. The longer you continue down this path, the harder the habit will be to break, and it's probably going to take you getting hurt to reconsider your actions.

You already have contacts within driving distance. There's no excuse to be jumping on your own.

Freestanders range in size from 100 to 400+ feet.
These are much safer for a first antenna BASE jump.

Big tall guyed towers with the right winds and planning
can also be fun and relatively safe BASE jump objects.
IF you know how to exit and track in a straight line...

My Rule: never jump guyed towers under 666 feet.
The wires are too close together, you are basically
committing to a sector w/ 120 degrees of freedom.

Lastly, most people are NOT good at subterminal
tracking, especially newbies, shorties, fatties, etc.

So here's where it's very jumper specific - if you don't how long it will take, then you don't know how to do it yet, therefore it will take at lot longer for you than for someone else.

As for objects, if 500+ means they are somewhere reasonably close to 500ft then no, you will not get any meaningful movement from a track. Better to use whatever body position gives you the best chance of a stable, on heading deployment.

For who?
Take care,
space

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Wow, 30 Towers in your area is pretty nice. That pretty sweet and don't get all discouraged by all the Neg. feedback . Guy wire Antenna climbing and exiting are mostly mind fuck than difficult and unsafe . You are pretty level headed asking questions and getting/finding someone to climb and launch with that has done your local Antenna .

. Your also talking about specifically ' tracking ' . Also your reference to you desire launching exit at from 500 ft. .
500 ft. exit from any antenna free standing or guyed . with slider Up or Down . Tracking is inefficient and not the primary thing your should be sticking on . I think your main concern for concentration is ' Clearance ' before deployment . You need to concern with your standing launch Technique off the metal antenna structure your doing . Truthfully you dont have the desired height to focus on tracking . Your primary focus should be launch and body positioning with deployment .
. You need to give a good power standing launch . along with your good launch and the varying direction of Tail-wind that you will have on your canopy deployment / inflation ' Will Give ' you good separation . and that's what you should be thinking about more than sticking/ focusing on the word Tracking .
..

Respectfully disagree. Jump a freestander or jump a terminal antenna. That low guyed stuff is waiting to gobble your off-heading opening.

^ +1

I'm really surprised noone has said this...but...your track isn't your margin for error there and you shouldn't be relying on it because, if we're being honest here, at 16 jumps and no big-wall / terminal BASE experience you probably can't track well in the BASE environment.

You can freefall a 250' guyed antenna with absolutely no problems if the WINDS are ideal. You're obviously worried about object strike...tracking from an A under 1000' tall isn't going to do nearly as much for you as jumping any guyed A with a consistent 7-10+ tailwind that's at or very close to directly between the wires.

My 0.02 at least.

Also, if it's a sub 1000' A (and you're a ninja tracker) and there was no wind or it wasn't ideal direction, then wouldn't going slider down, pushing hard, and taking a solid deep delay be safer? Your heading performance is WAY more likely to not be shite compared to a short delay slider-up opening

Yes. But the right answer is just to wait for the wind.

( wrong ) . That is the right correct answer .
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What he is repeating said from (instructor) the person advising him is totally Correct .
I also ( respectfully disagree ) Low guy wire antenna's are Not waiting to just Gobble you Up . ? and just adding to his (nickcliche) confusion about proper safe guild-lines to jump .
.

.
You got the best advised going so far and if you look above your Post and @ mine, I am saying pretty similar same thing .
.

Sub-1000' is pretty vague, for instance, a 200', 450', or 700' A, I'd approach each of those very differently.

"not ideal wind direction," just climb down it's not worth it. At least for a low-jump number person like the OP will be for a while. You can make all the dumb decisions you want when you get older in the sport :) Don't over-think it. just wait for the right winds.

Clearly a lot of different tolerances for risk showing up in this thread. Not trying to rag on anybody for what they are comfortable with. but, this is a beginner who is asking the question, is it not

Helpful post.

You know I can't readddddd

I don't know how I missed the tailwind part in your post! Right on

I absolutely agree. ALWAYS wait for ideal wind. If you're remotely a beginner you shouldn't be jumping As in no wind period. So many people think "oh nice, winds are calm". If you're on an A, wind...the right wind... is your friend and your margin.

What I meant about the sub-1000' thing is that, for most jumpers, they won't be getting much, if any, separation from a track (since they'll be slick). When I'm saying sub-1000', I mean sub-1000' to impact AND to LZ since it's an A obviously...so it's a lot different than 1000' with a talus afterwards.

Regarding the slider-down, hard push, etc: Some people will think that you should be slider up for a 600', 700', or 900' jump. BUT one should always take into consideration the MASSIVE MASSIVE heading performance loss when you go from 3-4s slider down to 3-5s slider up, which is critical for a guyed antenna where you're in a 120 degree cone.

i understood what you meant and i agree. i think you and Ray are spot on. i have jumped a lot of antennae in my life. there is literally nothing to fear of a guyed A of any size. i've done them from 150' - 2000'. no big deal.


however, my only addition to the discussion is this:

no one needs internet mentors. if you are new, you'd be best served to continue reading as much as you like, but ask questions directly to your mentor. there is way too much crap to filter through in posing a question to the masses. if you're desperate for other opinions, pick someone you know, or who you think might have the answer and PM them. that's just what i'd do.

it keeps things from getting lost in translation.

good luck.

I try and track off every jump. Separation is life.

What you should be doing now is mapping each "A".
Get your altitude, Security and devices, type of radiation, guy-wire orientation. LZ orientation (for "ideal winds"). Notes and tips for access like "is it a manned 24hr facility?".
Maybe sort out some keys and combinations for locks and access to perimeter fences and elevators. Places to park the getaway car.
Local Emergency numbers and location of Emergency Rooms.
Then later on, when you get with a mentor, you can check the winds online and know which "A"(s) are best for that wind. Et Cetera
There is a lot one can do.
Take care,
space

^ +1

Homework is educational

even static lines?

Every time

the reason he asks is because on a static line you will pendulum back into the cliff with a lot more force if you have an off heading and wont have time to turn it around

I don't believe In the theory of "stepping" off an object to avoid pendulum. Since this part has gotten into more serious inquiries I would say specifically I still push hard like my life depends on it, but in a much more vertical body orientation to avoid leg swing and also put me in a better position to grab toggles or risers sooner depending on what scenario happens after the canopy opens. The farther I am from the wall the better chance I have to avoid hitting it in a 180, swing or not.

I don't even believe in static lines I don't do them anymore.

You have 16 jumps from the perrine? And you are asking if you can track away from a 500' antenna....

Please re-read Colm's response many times

Hmmm, I respectfully disagree. You should still jump on a static line, but jumping full force like your life depends on it, to me (personal preference), is more dangerous in the event of an off-heading and more difficult for toggle grab and a fast transition to stable, controlled flight, with the canopy directly overhead. It's likely an overly simplified view, but I think that your limit for object separation is about the length of your line set. If you had maximum separation (which isn't really possible), you'd be in line with the exit point, one line-set length away. If you dropped straight down you'd be below the exit point by one line-set length.

I try to aim for somewhere in the middle...enough hoppity hop to not scrape my ass on anything and get a little separation...but not so much that I'm going to pendulum more than is necessary. I also definitely keep a very head high body position (which is probably just as important as push for a S/L).

Just thinking of a severe off-heading on a static line scares the hell out of me. Because 1) you are right next to your exit point and 2) if you're static lining, you probably don't have the altitude to go cranking on risers or toggles.

Good thing static lines are ALWAYS within 90deg of on-heading right ...unless you mess up the execution...or there are bad winds...or you're just that one unlucky fuck

more so, i was just wondering how you "track" in a head up position.

clearly i have a different idea of what tracking is.

i've never seen someone successfully track on a handheld go and throw.

You're clearly no expert as most jumpers here!