Basejumper.com - archive

So a guy starts skydiving 3 years ago and competes in the WWL?
Driver's license to F1 in 3 years?
And some of the same people who complain about newbies getting hurt or worse are supporting this?

Paragliding experience, lots of jumps in such a short amount of time are in my opinion still no good reason. Basically what a newbie might take away: 3 years of jumping a lot is enough experience and might get me to WWL to represent this sport in front of millions of people?

I guess we haven't learned anything and the double standard continues.

I wish everyone good luck and hope nobody gets hurt.

High-speed sport background, trust fund or soda sponsorship to allow full time training and one could be alright. That said I have no idea who the OP is referring to and if this applies.

So how many years does one need then? 5? 7? 10? 15?

Fill in your profile and maybe someone will reply who knows the details.

The jumper you're referring to probably trains harder than anyone you know in sky and BASE.

He is also (AFAIK) the only person at WWL who doesn't do proximity flying.

Save your angst for the guys flying crazy lines to keep sponsorships.

Im sure that the oranizers have been under some pressure to include local jumpers as soon as possible in the event. I very much doubt that they would let a lower experience jumper compete if they thought he was unsafe, but I'm sure having a local competitor will dramatically increase viewership.

I should add, this is not specific to the wwl. Every year at kl the media really likes to focus on how to get more Malaysian jumpers in the event.

Max Verstappen

No pressure but it is obviously good for the media to have a local pilot.

B52, I think I worked out who you are. Just wanted to be sure it wasn't someone passing time at work.

Shupeng has the met the 300+ ws base jumps / 3 seasons requirements. I have personally followed his progression and jumped with him a few dozen times at Brento. He also has over 100 jumps from Tianmen mountain (WWL site). Shupengs background as a champion paraglider pilot has helped.

He started on this road in 2012 and has focused his entire life on becoming a ws race pilot, obtaining sponsorship from RedBull China along the way.

It is not the road that everyone should take but if you put the time and numbers in it can be made to work. Nate Jones is another example.

Disclaimer: ~Tom has zero wingsuit jumps.

I used to teach many ground schools and would
explain to newbie SKY jumpers how learning this
sport is different than others for many reasons...

Then I'd compare it to learning to shoot a target
with a gun from 25 yards / 23 meters or driving
a golf ball 200 yards / 182 meters. Both of which
include mental and physical ability plus breathing.

With either activity you can easily practice over
100 repetitions per hour, which means you have
a faster feedback loop to correct your errors and
ultimately can learn the skills at a faster rate.

Whereas most beginners only get to make a couple
jumps per day, then based on budget and weather
could mean making a dozen or less per month...
add in the fear of death and this is simply a sport
that takes more time and effort to learn.

Using wind-tunnels, legal spots, full-time, lots of
money, coaches, packers, etc. are all ways to get
in more repetitions and learning in less time/jumps.

Another variable worth considering is the impact of
training jumps versus fuck-around jumps. What I
mean is doing the same jump 10 times over 2 days
can get boring but will dial in a particular skill!

Conversely doing a horny gorilla and 9 other loads
haphazardly thrown together with novices will be
a ton of fun but contributes little to one's skills.

Everything you and Uncle Charlie say is true and there are two other key factors, one of which was mentioned in in passing above:

1) equivalent risk experience

2) above-average mental discipline

1) Back in the day I trained rock climbers to skydive and base jump, skydivers and fighter pilots to snow ski, and ski racers to rollerblade. In all cases, their previous experience meant they already knew how to stay on task when the Reaper was lurking, and to trust their equipment to perform as expected if they did their part -- and they all had their personal toolbox of Jedi mind tricks to help them through. As a result, they learned fast and developed competency fast -- including the most critical competency of all: knowing their limits -- way beyond the average person learning a high-risk sport. I don't know Shupeng but his paragliding experience and skill apparently carries over for him in a similar way and, in particular, his knowledge of and experience with micrometeorology and having a feel for mountain air translates well to wingsuit proxy.

2) Even people skilled and experienced in other risk sports still need above-average mental discipline to transfer these skills and experience to a new risk sport because it is that above-average mental discipline that allows for the most critical competency -- the ability to know your limits in your new sport. Without naming names or disrespecting the dead, there have been more than a couple of "crossover" BASE jumpers who died because their expertise in their previous sport and their fast progression in BASE distorted their limitation judgment.

Then we come to the OP's original point. I had a front-row seat to the same sort of situation in Malaysia at the Petronas Transmillennium World Record jump on New Year's Eve 2000. This was back when there had only been two or three times that building owners had allowed jumping from their buildings -- and that included the Corn King Festival building jump Carl and Jean Boenish had done about 20 years before from a building in Tennessee or Kentucky... and no one had ever gained permission to jump from a country's national symbol.

But we did -- on the condition that there would be two Malaysians in the group, which was a bit of a challenge because the most experienced BASE jumper in Malaysia had 4 BASE jumps from KL Tower and the second-most experienced BASE jumper in that country had 2 BASE jumps -- and was not available.

But the 4-jump wonder was a pilot and a member of the Malay national accuracy team, and we picked one of his team colleagues to be the second jumper; he had 1600 skydives and was very heads up. Both of them were also in their mid- to late 30s and were mature guys with good judgment and under-control egos.

Dennis McGlynn gave them their first jump course the day before the event, and both of them made a couple of practice jumps the night before. Then we did the record jump: 15 jumpers leaving simultaneously from three levels on both buildings 3 seconds before midnight, thereby freefalling into the new millennium and setting a record that can't be broken for 1,000 years.



Anyway, we put them at the top of each tower: Dennis jumpmastered one, I jumpmastered the other, and both performed flawlessly because they both had all the characteristics listed above.

So it can be done and, given everything that is at stake with the WWL in China, the probability is very high that Shupeng will not only fly competently and safely, he may well finish in the middle of the pack and, as has already been pointed out, his participation the race will measurably increase viewership in the greater China viewing area.

The OP's concern is valid but, as with the Petronas situation, there has been a lot of supervision by highly experienced people, and the basic facts of the situation make it such an outlier that it's unlikely to adversely influence someone else.

so when are you going to try a wing suit? Its pretty fun.

ive learned to keep my opinions to myself because noone gives a shit

Haha the most true statement. Remember this is an invitational exhibition for profit. So weird that none of the top three from last year seem to be competing ;). And with that I'll end my comments on this thread because I really do hope everyone has a safe and fun time in China this year!

For profit :) It's funny how what people think is happening can differ so drastically from what is actually happening :) The people who have taken the lions share of profits have been the athletes. The major majority of all profits have gone to the top 3 competitors from the last 4 WWL events. It always has been and for as long as it goes on will be for the benefit of the wing suit pilots and the jumping community. I have personally worked on WWL for the last 4 years this being my 5th and I have earned exactly zero dollars. The little bit I have been paid went to airfare and food :) Julian, Noah and Jhonathan earned the most money from the events period. This year it's being more evenly distributed through out all the pilots attending but I must be very clear, this has been a passion project trying to help the wing suit flying community get a higher level of exposure so they could draw in real sponsors to get paid what real athletes earn so they could focus on their dreams of human flight. The dream has been to create something that gives the athletes a platform to earn a real living from their passion. It's a big dream and it's not an easy one to turn into reality but we are trying. It would help if we could get just a little bit of support from the people it benefits the most, YOU...

Probably 2017 out of planes and balloons.

No plan to ever take one off an object.

I still love BASE Tracking too much!


SBD* = Sleeping Bags of Death

I'm not sure everybody here want to "get a higher level of exposure" for our activity. It s far from being positive for us until now.

Sure we want to get more exposure. But then good exposure of course, and not just youtube.

To be fair, in more then 1 country the WS event in Dashanboa was well mediatized. And in a positive way. I am sure WWL has the same goal, let alone to satisfy sponsor(s).

Some of us for sure but not "we".

So, are you trying to make up for the bad publicity you created in the sport of BASE over the last 10-ish years?

The publicity that affected NYC locals, the publicity of talking about death alot, the issues created from selling your footage of you crashing into Table Mtn?

When I have jumped buildings in the past, I sure didnt realize that the best traffic flow for my LZ was 4 pm! I could have had a good nights sleep!

LOL... Jeb's good-to-bad media ratio is probably 20 or 30-to1.

At least.

And, you know, I'm not quite sure how Jeb talking a lot about death in BASE (you know, REALITY) is somehow worse than all the heroes killing themselves during the last 10-ish years, including the one who just hit a house and the one who did it live on facebook. Care to explain your "reasoning"?

Similar to SLAMBO I was also surprised when Jeb suddenly asks the community for some help at representin'.
I am not SLAMBO, but I love to write shit about Jeb, so I will allow myself to answer your question:

Im surprised that you think his good to bad ratio in the press is 20 or 30 to 1.
My research suggests the opposite.
I did a google trend search for Jeb Corliss and identified his greatest peaks in interest on Google over time. I compare each event with the search "wingsuit death". It seems like Jeb actually talks louder about death and wins over "wingsuit death" every single time he trends on Google


JEBS GREATEST MOMENTS
Percentages are in comparison to the most popular trend (F)
A. Jeb Corliss gets busted on Empire State
B. Flies under the arm of Christo Redendor in Rio.
C. Flying down Matterhorn
D. Grinding the crack in Swiss
E. Fly through giant arch in China.
F. Smashes his legs into a table.
G. Fly through smaller chinese arch.

By far his most famous stunts is smashing up his legs. I agree it was a spectacular stunt, but I would not call it good publicity for BASE-jumping. Except the Empire, I agree that most of his other stunts seem pretty ok. But like SLAMBO points out, they are smothered and wrapped with his constant talk of death, danger and rattlesnakes. And despite what you may think about current jumpers, live broadcasting over facebook, and crashing into buildings. It is nothing in comparison with going on prime time talkshows and talk loudly and energetically about what a radical experience it was to to almost die. My co-workers doesn't follow athlethes on facebook or checks out the latest local news from Chamonix, they watch Conan O Brien.

From another recent tread about death and danger, I got inspired by Yuri the mad scientist to do some science that proves to you that Jeb talks about death more than what is normal.

I downloaded the transcript for "Fearless - The Jeb Corliss Story" from his youtube account.
Then I counted some key words, total number of words and looked at their frequency compared to normal english spoken language. As you can see in the chart below, he talks about dying 6x more than in normal spoken English language, rattlesnakes and spiders 12x more.

I guess we can all benefit from being reminded of the seriousness of BASE jumping every now and then, like when we hear that fun story about flying through the red mist the Royal Gorge Bridge every 3rd year. Thank you Jeb, for reminding me BASE-jumping is dangerous, I would never have figured that out myself after just 13 years of jumping myself. My main problem with his grotesque media strategy is that I am sort of trying to give the impression to family and co-workers that this is a sport that doesn't just attract mindless adrenaline junkies that likes dark sunglasses, and rattlesnakes, but a large diverse group of interesting people from all around the world.

For this reason I think SLAMBO has a valid point that Jeb has some nerves asking for the community support for his "WWL" projects that he are selling to the Chinese human right activist group against death penalty and freedom of speech or whoever is paying them.

Its like Donald Trump asking to be taken seriously. You get what you give.

You just have to believe him. He can do great things, tremendous things. Only he can "Make BASE jumping great again".

You should give an honorable smashing to when he hit the building too. Me might be eligible for object strikes. He's hit an E, a B, can't really count the S cause it was Dwain sadly. But he still has a chance to strike all 4 objects and make a new sport out of it

I just read this post to the pilots and Jeb whilst waiting on cloud at the WWL exit point.

Thank you for making our day

If reading this post while standing on top of a sweet terminal wall made your day, then something is wrong.

My reasoning has been reasoned correctly for the simple reason that the numbers dont lie, as 0584 just explained in his reasoning. Is it within reason to take my reasoning seriously?

On a side note, I give you great respect for your BASE number.

This made me chuckle

1. Despite your preface, you did not answer the question by explaining your reasoning; you provided "research" results and a non sequitur "conclusion."

2. Your "research" is laughably flawed on multiple levels. (Anyone with 5th grade research design knowledge can explain why.)

3. You have way too much time on your hands.

Thank you for your kind words.

Back to the main subject:

There is a difference between reasoning and offering an opinion.

You did the latter.

0584 did not reason, either; he created a flawed research design, presented useless evidence, and offered a non-sequitur "conclusion."

As for your assertion that "the numbers don't lie:" sorry, but numbers are just like guns that don't kill people: in both cases, the people wielding the numbers and the guns do the lying and killing, respectively, to wit:

“No one loves the numbers more than I do, but numbers don’t measure everything, especially when it comes to evaluating defense. And in the end, I am going to trust Buck Showalter’s eyes more than a set of statistics devised by someone who never played the game.”
― Tim Kurkjian, I'm Fascinated by Sacrifice Flies: Inside the Game We All Love

“There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
--Benjamin Disraeli

“A recent survey or North American males found 42% were overweight, 34% were critically obese and 8% ate the survey.”
--Banksy

“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.”
--Mark Twain

“If your experiment needs a statistician, you need a better experiment.”
--Ernest Rutherford

“Statistics, likelihoods, and probabilities mean everything to men, nothing to God.”
--Richelle E. Goodrich, Smile Anyway: Quotes, Verse, & Grumblings for Every Day of the Year

But guns dont kill, the people BEHIND the gun kill people.

that is exactly what I said, bro, so let me reformat:

the numbers don't lie, the people BEHIND the numbers lie.
the guns don't kill, the people BEHIND the guns kill.

Knowledge and machinery are both neutral; whether their impact is good or evil depends on the person wielding them... and while 0584 is not evil in his misuse of the numbers he conjured with his flawed research design, he is certainly misleading.

Yeah, well, that's never going to happen.

Sorry, misread your post.

No worries, I should have written it more clearly!

Your concern about bad publicity is valid, but the presented numbers DO lie because they are linear and nothing about publicity is linear.

The best-known example of this is when someone bounces at a drop zone: historically, the next weekend that DZ almost always sees a significant increase in first-time jumper business.

Seems counter-intuitive because it's technically bad publicity for the sport, but the reality of it is that the news stories about the fatality:

a) put the idea of skydiving front and center into the minds of people who "always wanted to do it;" and

b) give the location/address of the parachute center.

That's no consolation to NYC locals after the ESB incident, and for any locals whose sites were burned by non-locals, but on a meta level there really is no such thing as bad publicity.

On a final note, what Iiro and Jeb and Frank Yang are doing is trying to create an international competition circuit. This is a far more complex and challenging project than the one-off Look-At-Me events that others are doing in China and other countries. No disrespect toward any of the latter, just pointing out that projects such as the WWL are like any other business proposition; it costs a lot to lay the groundwork, the ROI comes slowly, and what's truly and undeniably "bad" for the sport is when people in the sport snipe at the very people who are among its leaders in making it bigger and better.

Peace out.

Robin?

Look at the attached. It worked out exactly as planned: Shupeng finished in the middle of the pack -- and ahead of some very big names in the sport. The Chinese will love this and it will help expand opportunities in China for all BASE jumpers, not just wingsuiters, and not just WWL events. Big win all around.

First post here from this old codger. Well, that's just bollocks! As if this kid finishing in the middle of the pack at a drawn out weathered event coming whatever place will help others...

Going off topic a little bit - look at the wings for love thing...

They raised 80k USD for the orphans from the earthquake, which devastated the area, but had 60 jumpers from all over the world, most likely let's say $1000 min. return ticket x 60. So that's $60,000.

Then, the helicopter/bus transfers they had on each jump plus hotel costs.??
Also, didn't they get paid some money for going? Possibly another $1000? So that's another $60,000 and if this is true, did the 60 jumpers all donate that money as well or did it add to the 120k it cost to just make the event?
Wouldn't it be better if we progressed the sport by just giving that 120k to the kids, rather than spend it on wingsuit egos?

Sounds a bit ironic...

My personal opinion of both events is that it's about making money, not progressing the sport.

Look at the WWL 2016 results - if Jeb isn't making any money and never even raced, what was he doing there?

Flame away

Event is finished, Shupeng did a good job for his first competition.

Mr. Special, I guess you are bored at work, forums are good for wasting life.

Jeb supervised the target platform positioning and construction.

Everybody love everybody

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