Basejumper.com - archive

hi,

im writing cause i was shocked to find out that a certain jumper sold a base rig to a "skydiver" fresh from his license course (~30 jumps) knowing how many skydives this peron has.

the 30jump pro doesnt own a skydive rig and is currently practising packing his baserig asking (stupid) questions, not exclusively about packing.

how to stop this guy and how to deal with the jumper who sold the rig to this guy?

any opinions/help is appreciated!

stay safe,
flo

Where is that ?you can PM me if you want.
I know I would give my opinion to both. Separately.
And also make sure several "influential" people around would know about it too.

Best way to stop him: Sell him a wingsuit and a one way ticket to the valley...

Don´t be so shocked. Personally, I probably wouldn´t sell that guy a rig but I wouldn´t really call tar feathers for the guy who sold it. The noobie will get a rig, one way or another. Heck, he can order one online, no questions asked! There´s heaps of people willing to sell him stuff so if he wants to have a rig, there´s no way for us to stop him getting one.


There´s no way for you to stop him. And there even shouldn´t be. This is a non-regulated sport and everyone ultimately is responsible for their own actions. All you can do is try to reason with the guy, express your opinion straight to him, tell him that from your opinion he most likely will face serious injury or death if he starts to jump with that experience and that you do not want to have anything to do with that. If he still chooses to ignore your advice and go for it, it´s his right to do so and there´s nothing else you can do than wish him luck. And when he craters in from your local object, clean the mess, do the damage control and try to use him as an example for the next guy who comes along. Maybe the next guy then listens.

In surfing there is a term known as "localism"

Difficult to impose localism when the seller is a pretty well known jumper.
Maybe the best way to put a brake on the buyers intentions by opening his eyes on the seller (and possibly "mentor"), and his real motivations (making money and being "famous" whatever the cost to others)

Oh come on.... You cannot write that and then not give us the name of the jumper

We want gossip!

edited to remove name/hints

Uh, thanks for that Flo, i was looking for a 36

I was a c*nt hair away from closing a deal with a kid who had never even made a skydive, although some static line experience. He had a plan that involved FJC at a DZ, getting a certain number of jumps in a certain number of months and then heading to a BASE FJC. I checked his story and everyone referenced backed up the story.

But it all felt wrong. Not cuz I thought the dude was lying but just cuz I was thinking "what happens if the guy can't make any of the links in this chain happen for some reason, and there he is with my old BASE burning a hole in his head and zero skydives or something". Or shit, even if the whole chain of events came together as planned, is the dude gonna have what normal people would consider adequate experience? Do I want some guy burning in on my old gear on my conscience? Am I OK to have to possibly sell my house to cover legal fees if some relative sues me cuz I knowingly sold gear to someone with zero skydives?

As much as I wanted to offload that rig, I had to back out of the deal.

Localism works like this.

When someone new comes up to the spot, and you don't want the person there anymore for whatever reason, you gang up with a "local" crew and make the new guy feel so uncomfortable/un-welcomed that they don't stick around.

No need to get physical, all it takes is a verbal abuse.

Who would want to keep coming back if no one says hello, instead get told to fuck off? Base jumpers are too nice to pull this shit, even though they are about to burn your spot to the ground.

.

I understand why you personally would not be comfortable selling stuff to inexperienced people. I feel the same.

I won't sell a crossbraced parachute, speedwing, fast motorbike or anything dangerous to anyone who does not already have something equally as fast or sketchy and knows there stuff. ( BTW I've never old base gear yet)

But this reluctance is a personal choice. So why go after this dude?

The fact is, anyone can go buy this stuff online anywhere. They can use this website to buy it, they can use facebook to buy it, they can go direct to manufacturer to buy it.

IN your crusade against this jumper are you also going to go after every single person selling used BASE gear online or who ever has? Are you going to go after every single base manufacturer who sells BASE equipment or ever has ?

I ask no questions when selling my gear.

I have no problem selling a base rig to person without a completed skydiving course.

I might not sell a BASE rig to a child though.

+1

Pulse and a Paypal account.

I disagree with saying we shouldn't try to stop people from killing themselves.
If we don't try to put a stop to the increasing carnage, we are in a very real danger of losing hard won, legal jump sites.
The writing is on the wall.....it should be obvious that if present trends continue this "unregulated " sport will be regulated by the authorities where we are permitted to jump.

I think we should give this guy a Wingsuit and speed up the inevitable,.... but don't send him to the Swiss valley,.... send him to a known suicide spot like the Golden Gate Bridge.

Regards, B.

Actually... Scratch the pulse

Ron Paul 2012!

Good in theory. Not so much when these new people are resourceful and will jump by themselves anyway.

Thanks a lot for your opinions, plenty of valid points pro and contra. Obviously manufacturers dont ask too many questions either, i still personally would never do it with base gear or speedwings or high end paragliders.

before sending the guy off in a wingsuit to fulfill his destiny i might try to convince him to go to a windmill first. anyone knows of a super high security one with alarms etc so that he gets arrested right away (PM me with locations around switzerland/southern germany please ;))

i will also send an email to the seller stating my concerns and informing him about the attitude and plans of the guy he sold the rig to

and you guys stay alive too!
flo

See? BASE jumpers are way too nice to each other to pull this shit. I rarely meet asshole Basers. I've met plenty of asshole surfers. The niceness even show up in the typical thread, "Hey, XXX local, I'm here for X days can you show me around?"

http://www.theinertia.com/...isitors/#modal-close

Pull this shit off and see if they come back to the Swiss valley next year.

Yes.

Does a motorcycle seller not sell a 1 liter crotch rocket to a novice buyer?

Its called personal responsibility. Which means each person is responsible for their own conduct. Not another.

I would add that I would likely advise them to do xyz before they do xxx. But beyond that its up to them.

OP, move on.

I'm a strong believer in personal responsibility, pulse and a paypal account, pulse and method of payment negotiable.

Agree. And no not all locals are above the verbal abuse. Problem is, it doesn't work, it just makes you a bully. Better to try a different approach.

It works. No one really tried it yet.

I sure as fuck would not go back to the place where I was not welcomed.

Maybe I didn´t express my self correctly but I didn´t mean we shouldn´t try to stop people on doing stupid things. I think we should try to educate them, tell them they are doing stupid things but ultimately it is their own decision and they (and only they) are responsible for their actions.

I agree with you, it is highly possible that in future legal sites will be closed and BASE will be regulated more from the authorities. But I guess that´s called inevitable evolution. If we cannot regulate ourselves, we will be regulated. For me self regulation does not mean tar and feathers and internal rules and internal (physical) enforcment but people taking responsibility of their actions and making decision based on longetivity (of the sport and their own lives) and not based on rapid fame. But currently we are demonstrating horribly bad decision making capability and if we continue to do that, someone else will make the decision from our behalf.

I don't know if you have a specific incident in mind, but I have seen it at least twice in at least two different areas. Trust me, it has been tried, unless you are insinuating something "more aggressive" should be tried (-- if that's the case, this conversation is over).

Not everyone responds how you'd expect, some only get more determined after confrontation. It can backfire on a crew.

This is a pretty shitty thing to do. Unless you've exhausted everything else and your "spot" is in actual danger of getting burned.

I think that it is up to the locals to NOT push someone away like that but to deal with them. Instead of being preachy BASE-god on high who decrees who gets to participate in *YOUR* sport and/or jump *YOUR* objects, you should ask them questions. Talk to them. In a way that exposes how little they know and how ill-equipped they are to be there.

The reason they will get hurt or killed is because they don't know how much they don't know. Just because you push them away from your sight doesn't mean they aren't going out jumping. Some people can be unreachable, but I've found that most people are very receptive if you approach them without any bias/judgement/attitude and just talk to them. Tell them "whatever reason" you don't want them there and make sure they understand it. Make an effort to make them see things from your point of view and how much they don't know. It's annoying, yes. It's not your "job", yes. But by just "making the new guy feel so un-welcomed that they don't stick around", you may very well be making the situation a lot worse.

It's far too common in BASE for everyone to talk shit about someone behind their back without ever actually talking to the person. If you, personally, haven't said it to their face, don't say it behind their back. If you, personally, don't have their side of the story or first-hand information regarding something they've done, then don't go spreading it around.




Unless it's the professor of adventure

Yeah you would, you'd just go back when the other people weren't there. It's not like surfing, things aren't that crowded and BASE spots aren't guarded 24/7. Except for a handful of places like ITW, LB, TF or Kjerag you can jump any local crew's 'own' objects on the regular without ever having to see them.

Localism. I presume that you applaud the NPS for "protecting" their local sites too...because no-one ever goes back to a place where they feel unwelcome. Except for BASE jumpers that simply see "unwelcome" as a challenge to add to the experience.