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Like most other newbs from the last 5 or 6 years, I dreamed of the day I could experience WS proximity flying like I saw in all the "cool" videos online. I did all the reading and research in efforts of making that dream a reality, and signed up for skydiving lessons. I accepted the risks and was determined to be as safe as I could in every step of the progression. As it would turn out, life got in the way and I ended up taking an 18 month break from skydiving..... And I'm thankful for it Having all that time to reflect, I realized I was setting myself up for a fast track to failure. Even though I truly wanted to be safe, my only goal was to fly like the big boys.

I've since come to the conclusion, that at this point in my life, I'm simply not able devote the time and finances needed to aquire the proper skills that are essential for survival. All of the recent carnage serves as a reminder, that even some of the best, can fall prey to a momentary lapse of reasoning. Hopefully by writing here, others who are in a similar position with the same dream, will check themselves before they wreck themselves! It's too easy to get overzealous and lose focus on what's really important. Maybe I'll get there one day, but probably not. It isn't an easy decision, but I've accepted the fact that I may never get the opportunity live the dream..... And I'm ok with that!



Flame Away!

Nothing to flame. You've thought more about your base career than probably 90% of those who actually do jump. I tell people who are in a rush all the time, the cliffs will be there, it's just a question of it you will be or not.

I definitely can respect this, thanks for sharing.

Something that you wrote stands out for me after a positive experience I had this weekend. You said "even the best, can fall prey to a momentary lapse of reasoning." This is a phrase that seems to get tossed around a lot. While i don't totally disagree with this, maybe it is an idea that needs to get challenged. Who are "the best" and why?

Food for thought, yesterday we went to a wingsuit exit, 2200m flight with the same exit measurements as Brevent. Two of the most seasoned jumpers walked down. Both have over 15 years in the sport, and are very capable wingsuit jumpers. The first took one look at the exit and said he didn't like it, while the second pointed out how she had 3 personal red flags pop up so that was enough to call it for her. Long story short, these two, and how they handled themselves yesterday, might embody what it means to be the "best". For me the best are in it for the long game, the most fun over the longest period of time, and are a clear distinction between those who have strong risk management skills in a dangerous sport and those who are just plain reckless.

Boom! Your post nailed it

That's the point, you can't be "the best at not dying", because the chances for that are exactly 0%. You can, however, make sound decisions and drastically lower your chances of going in. For example: let's say the probability of a super-advanced ws pilot dying in a jump at brevent is 1:10000. Add fog and you have 1:1000, add bad winds and you have 1:100. It doesn't matter if you jump in bad conditions and are "able to handle them" 100 times in a row. What counts is: was it right to jump even if you made your way down smoothly in a controlled manner? Don't post your footage to youtube, show it to other jumpers and discuss and analyze your jumps together. Analyze everything that you can see in the video and that you remember... TOGETHER! even the smartest people need thought-provoking impulses sometimes.

Thanks for the responses.... I've read these forums for a while now, and know it can be a tough crowd, lol. I also couldn't agree more that the people who have been in the sport the longest, should be considered the best. Reasonable decision making based on collective experience should be a sought after skill.

A recent post in another thread sums up the reality of the current situation perfectly:

I remember this post...

I too didn't see any reason to flame, but also didn't understand why you came to saying, "probably not." Even given the limited details, that seemed strange. We've all had money problems, and some have needed breaks.

Well... you just recently said, "when I’m ready." - It's been about a year and an half.

So, how goes?


Also, there's a big difference between proximity flying, and flying with the big boys; if that means flying between trees and shit. You brought up the SBK; if you've already got 150, double it (have fun doing so), work on skills, and save up for a trip. You can live that dream there for sure, and not be dragging your fingernails along the wall; or any of the other, no room for error flying.
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Also to remember when comparing exits that no 2 are exactly alike. For Brevent faces East and gets morning sun/heating and the couloir below adds some margin as long as you don't freefly the exit

I had a well thought out response to your post and deleted it by accident..... so this the abbreviated version, lol.

To be honest, I guess I was a little bummed out by the rate of people going in when I started this thread. After several years of skydiving and observing / learning about B.A.S.E., it became clearer and clearer I had grossly underestimated my initial assessment of the risks involved with the highest level of flying. The “probably not” was a combination of that realization, and the necessity to make some major priority changes in life. Those changes also made me reevaluate what my acceptable level of risk was. Financial issues merely served to delay the whole endeavor.

As it stands, I’ve made 30 skydives over the last 3 years (1 1/2 years on both sides of a month or so of jumping). I’m about a year away from resuming the physical effort, even though I have continuously made it a point to learn all the while. I originally had a few ideas that closely resembled your suggestions (which I greatly appreciate), although I will most likely go for a few hundred skydives before moving forward. In respect to the National Park thread, having more places in the States to jump would make the overall journey, a tad more affordable (also wanted to thank you and Mitch for all your efforts on that front)!

Looking back on this thread, my OP seems silly and self-centered... and I think I was hoping to reach others who might be “lurking and learning”. I was so focused early on that I never came up for a breath, and it wasn’t until I stepped away, that I was able to make an informed decision.

Ya know, a lot of others have probably taken the same road as you, but unlike you, they kept the lesson to themselves. Thanks for speaking up-- the BASE world would be better off if more people could reflect & share humbly.

So many jumpers have fucked themselves due to eagerness or whatever. Sounds like you are winning so far. Keep on having a blast skydiving, find some responsible jumpers to hang with, and maybe see you at the exit point some day.

I have done that more times than I'd like to admit.


Nah. I wouldn't say that...

...contradictive, and a bit confusing; Yeah. -- Perspective is a very interesting thing.

If you have the time and can bear the re-write, I'd very much so be interested to read the complete version; very thought provoking. Especially in regard to NPS issues. Been wanting to post for a while, but have been a little stuck. Where for me, much of this ties into your earlier statement: "I've read these forums for a while now, and know it can be a tough crowd, lol."

It's not hard to find things on here... but it certainly is time consuming.


Well... you are definitely not the only person to do so.

Had you seen this thread, when you posted? - The Great BASE book saved my life.

"Read the great BASE book in an attempt to learn as much about this wonderful sport as possible, with a burning desire to get into the sport. - I have the reqd amount of skydives and have only trained on large canopies..... having read the book and seeing the risks layed out in black and white... I have decided that BASE is not for me! - Anyone who hasn't read the book, should.... its the best book I have ever had the pleasure of reading! -- One Love

I remembered that "newbie" thread without searching (specifically because of the Book). And interestingly (having directly started searching for similar content soon after your last reply), before I could post, that same person then demonstrated he has been unable to keep BASE off the mind; first posts after almost 6 years, posted shortly after your last reply: Superterminal tracks in PF classic

That was easy to reference. But other statements in various threads that would be great for "newbies" or those on the fence to be reading, that I've seen recently... are not so easy to key word search for.


Sigh. That's a really complicated topic though. And I'm in that boat of, "double digit dead mates."

Had you (at the time of posting), or have you to date seen this presentation? -- Douggs BASE Survival Talk

There are a mix of issues within your statements, so, along with the presentation... I think these are important points that apply to many. At least, it applies heavily for myself in regard to WSing at the NRGB: HBO

"Why would I stop doing it because someone else had an accident?"




Not trying to pick apart your statements, at least critically speaking... but I am very curious about several aspects within them, and am not quite sure what I want to say; without elaboration.

So for now, so I can respond:

Yeah, that's not a lot of skydives; currency wise. -- "although I will most likely go for a few hundred skydives before moving forward." -- Sounds good to me!

-- "I had grossly underestimated my initial assessment of the risks involved with the highest level of flying." (Those changes also made me reevaluate what my acceptable level of risk was.)

Just the Scotty Bob level flying, or WS BASE generally?

-- I originally had a few ideas that closely resembled your suggestions (which I greatly appreciate):

Exit 5: Here's The Dream... It's Wonderful in a Phantom.

-- In respect to the National Park thread, having more places in the States to jump would make the overall journey, a tad more affordable.

You're Tellin' Me!

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