Basejumper.com - archive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCw7dHp7Te8

Don't go in, fuckers! Especially not in front of a crowd. And maybe check out the wingtip pouch (https://www.facebook.com/Wingpouch/).

Daaaaamn dude!

If someone bounces in the middle of the street in Riva there's going to be consequences eh?

Or maybe be proficient in pulling in your wing suit before BASE jumping it. A wingtip pouch is not necessary.

How do you know it was a hard pull? Maybe they were just being extra rad and putting on a good show... they did have fancy smoke and all.

I don't know about it being a hard pull but I bet he was looking for that pc for a while and it ended being a low pull..

I would love to see his view because we all know everyone has 5 go pros on there body..

Everyone thinks that until it happens to them (even with a shit load of skydives, like BFL #278). It also releases the PC into cleaner air and gives you the chance to bail with the flick of a wrist if you're not making your glide ratio.

I classify not being able to find your PC under a hard/difficult pull, not the gay skydiver "boohoo, the PC was too stuck to pull out of this pouch made of soft stretchy stuff" definition.

Undoubtedly a pull problem. Just look at the angle of flight, going really steep after jumper #2 has pulled. Implicating arm(s) were backward and armwings not flying anymore. Glad it worked out OK (?)

My 2 cents

I doubt you'll see FPV of this jump, but here's some ground video:

https://www.facebook.com/...ts/10208372575984865

If you can't see that page:

https://drive.google.com/...qx6TCOGRZdGNXLWtTMmc

The canopy says it all really.



Thanks

Roberta?

Not Roberta or Maury.

Italian male jumper.

New suit, hard to reach PC due to wing shape and short container.

I've always kind of wondered, what does turbolenza actually ...do. They obviously sponsor skydivers and base jumpers, but there's not really a product or service attached to the logo that I'm aware of.

Its italy, think about it...

And then the jumper flew straight into a tree.. Awesome show champs.

That's my comment

"The canopy says it all "

hahahahahhha downwind or slight crosswind you can see when ya look at the higher canopy turns into wind and just stops ..


Looks like a demo jump with smoke and all those people filming and to top it off a new container and wingsuit type hard to pull ....

Basejump demo/public:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKKZKxdLeIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CYV3jKLBVY

I know, I know. We do need to get exposure too.

Ronald

Any info on container/suit combination. If the combo made for a difficult pull, would be good info to have.

C-Race and Perigee Pro AFAIK

Which leads me to another important question, I wonder if they were using the performance foam. For those who don't know, the c race comes with a molded foam insert for the arm wings. It does feel like it increases performance by making a very smooth and shaped leading edge, but squirrel states explicitly not to use it for base because it does make the pull more difficult. The c race is my primary base suit and I absolutely love it, but I would never BASE jump it with the performance foam in. Would be interested to know if this was the case in this incident.

as you are pretty much the only one who considered the angel of flight, i'm gonna loose a few words on that

when you find yourself in a pull-situation unable to reach your PC within the move of reaching back or at least within a few, very few, seconds i would highly recommend to geht back into flying position just for as long as it takes for your suit to keep that good glide, once you reached that - Focus and Re-Attempt. No matter how many attempts it takes, if you can keep your glide the timeframe you will get for finding your pilot chute will be longer. Not good to keep your arms collapsed and keep going steeper and steeper while you just try to get that fucker out. It's gonna shrink your time and may make you fell a bit uncomfortable when rushing vertical towards the ground. Just my thoughts. Play safe

where are you getting this knowledge and experience from to give this advice skydiving?

bzzzzz.... wrong, try again.

Find PC, pitch. This is a BASE jumping forum, you aren't 4000 feet from your death, you are 400 feet from your death.

Others in this BASE series include:

Stability, stability, stability: Priorities before pitching that 'drogue' chute.

Look, locate, cut-away: Dealing with the dreaded tension knot!

The two-out: low-pulls and CYPRES.

Looks like it. https://www.ladige.it/...mper-alberi-giardini

Lawn dart mode doesnt help anything.

I would argue it has more benefits than "stop trying to pull" mode

He could have easily turned for the lake and flared like that dude on YouTube ;)

C Race had the soft foam leading edges.

Are the two schools of thought "maintain flight profile so you have more time, and keep reaching back and returning to flight until you can find it" and "get your PC out as quickly as possible, without regard to descent rate, because if you don't keep trying, you might never find it"? I know very little about wingsuits (but I am trying to learn). And both of these seem to have merit to me.

Well, assuming this is a BASE jumping website, and assuming this incident was a wingsuit BASE jump, or at least using a base rig, and assuming the pull sequence started at +/- 500 ft, if you miss your pull or can't find the handle initially, it's just my personal opinion that if you decide to go back in to full flight, you will probably fully fly into the ground in about 8-10 seconds. Assuming you have already flared to pull, as I will assume most wingsuiters do, you have killed a lot of your speed, and going back into full flight will not be a highly efficient flight. Use that information as you feel for while exploring the world of wingsuit BASE jumping and when deciding when to pull. I know there was a lot of assumptions there, but the most important lesson is GET OUT A BIG PARACHUTE BEFORE YOU DIE!

I might be wrong, but I would ask, just how long do you plan to go back into full flight for as the ground rapidly approaches before you attempt to pull again?

Honestly, even if we take we skydiving approach, didn't everyone learn in aff that the order of importance is 1. Pull 2. Pull stable 3. Pull at the correct altitude.

Really? What about 1. Pull. 2. Pull at the correct altitude 3. Pull stable.

Damnit, you're probably right! That must be why I keep tumbling wildly through my alarms!

Douggs said it best after his "no pull find" some years back:

"Lets practice that a bit more, ey"

Those assumptions all make a lot of sense to me though. And, again, I have no idea about wingsuit theory and I'm just trying to get a little informal education.

So, going back into full flight will of course take way to much time. If you flare your suit close to a stall this option is pretty much gone for you as well. I agree.
Many wingsuiters collapse both of their armwings for pulling and if you remain in this body position for a bunch of seconds your glide will drastically change towards vertical. In this phase of the flight/pull-attempt you will accelerate towards the ground. We know how fast modern wingsuits can change downward speed into forward motion. So if you just get full flight body position on for lets say a second or a little more it will already give you more time as it reduces your vertical speed.

Discussion is interesting, could be moved to technical thread.

As much time as you just spent not looking for your PC but trying to fly instead? It will gain you all that back and more?

Who are you and what's your experience basis for this theory?

Not at you jakee but at Woifei.
I thought`PC´ was Personal Computer at first. It almost works. googling on the phone for "cant find pilotchute". 392000 hits in 0.28 seconds, would bring you that closer to impact IMHO. but what do i know. i am not a winger.
Fast reactors clock about 0.12 hundredths "Response time is the sum reaction time plus movement time." Average is a quarter of a sec, 25 hundreds of a second.
This means for average Joe Jumper he would lose by only 3 hundredths of a sec by googling it at the gitgo.
Then you have to add Response Time remembering that yo decision will affect you for life. With the responses time sum can equall the rest of your life time.
Do you try to fly or get it out? this aint skydiving.
take care and excuse me for my post but it should be told.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_chronometry
get yo crap sorted before you jump seems like the takeaway from this thread.
I have done some research on reaction times for table soccer, foosball.
If the initiator is faster than reaction time for the opponent blabla. The Earth will be the judge and jury in BASE. As once told to me by Mark H.
"Remember that in FF, there is a big planet heading straight for you. Deal with that."
Hey Folks, He (Woifei ) is hypothesizing. Thanks for peeps like him.
So he seems newbie, It is our challenge to educate him or vice versa.

take care,
space

No, no it should not. You're giving advice that will literally kill someone. You're describing a technique used by beginners first learning to fly a wingsuit in a controlled skydiving environment, usually during your first few wingsuit jumps when it can be difficult to find a pc. I am just guessing you have little or no wingsuit BASE jumping experience based on everything you have said, and that the only people who say "hmmm that is an interesting thought" also admit they have absolutely no wingsuit BASE jumping experience.

Bullshit

"Many wingsuiters collapse both of their armwings for pulling"
~ No they don't.

"remain in this body position for a bunch of seconds"
~WTF is a bunch of seconds? 5, 10, 15? So you're pulling at 1k feet then. Cause " a bunch of seconds " @ 500 feet is all it's gonna take to eat some dirt for the last moment of your life!

"We know how fast modern wingsuits can change downward speed into forward motion"
~ Please share your data collection for this scenario

"So if you just get full flight body position on for lets say a second or a little more"
~Do this after " a bunch of seconds " ??

Send Blinc your photo today. Save them some time and effort. You also could write your eulogy too

 
At least we all love each other.

Enjoy your flights

Really? You've done tests to prove your emphatically stated hypothesis?

That's all anybody has advanced here in response to woifei's hypothesis.

More hypothesis.

No data.

What I would like to see is someone with a flysight or other similar gadget do some pull testing up high on a skydive and record the numbers:

reach back with both hands and pull

reach back with one hand and pull

reach back with two hands and flail for "a bunch of seconds" then pull

reach back with one hand and flail for "a bunch of seconds" then pull

reach back with two hands and flail for a second or two, return to full flight for a second or two, then pull

reach back with one hand and flail for a second or two, return to full flight for a second or two, then pull


Record the numbers and post here.

Then we can resume the discussion with some data, not speculation on everyone's part.

so, there is a math answer to your hypothetical scenario. 3-1 GR. at terminal isnt existing at pulltime when one is digging for the pc. You cant add lift into the equation. There is a planet sized planet hurtling towards you at around 55 m/s.
I would suspect that one´s reaction times would not suffice due to the fact that it takes time to the reaction of flight plus the reaction of mind.
As long as you are being questioned, think on and post.
It is better to ask stoopid questions and get a stoopid answer than not to ask and remain stoopid.
So Woifei, Ask a question rather than post your opinion.
take care,
space.

As my last post on this thread I'll summarize:

People who don't wingsuit BASE jump: here's a bunch of advice
People who wingsuit BASE jump: that sounds idiotic

You're out of your element Donny

You mean to substitute "Theory" with "Hypothesis." me thinks.
Imagine if hypothetical situations didnt exist. ;-)

Take care,
space

Yes, that is a great test - because if there was a problem getting the PC out first time, you're definitely going to be able to pull straight away second time.

Amirite?

Alive

Alive, increased chance of off-heading without practice.


Probably alive, slammer opening, maybe hanging from a tree, in a river or smashed into boulders with broken limbs.


Probably alive, slammer with wicked line twists, definitely in a tree, river or pile of boulders. Possibly flew in to side of a barn, and dead.


Dead.


Dead

Several jumpers with hundreds, if not thousands of wingsuit flights of cliffs from around the world has responded to wolfeis dangerous theory.

That should be enough to shut him - and especially you - up...

Edit to add:
Or you could get a wingsuit and just try for your self

I know the experienced guys have gotten frustrated and given up by this point, but could you explain this more too? I was under the impression that all wingsuiters collapsed both wings when pulling. What is the cost/benefit of using one arm? I'm guessing less stable but you fall slower? I thought if you pulled with one arm you would go into a barrel roll no matter how skilled you are? But maybe flaring your wingsuit changes those aerodynamics or something?

http://www.skydivemag.com/article/thinking-about-wingsuit-openings

Ohhhh, okay, so you're not using one arm, you just aren't collapsing your wings. I didn't even realize it was possible to pull without collapsing the wing, but I guess I'll figure it out when I strap on a straitjacket. Thanks for the link.

I have honestly tried most of your hypotheticals personally and i call bullshit.

Remember kids shit happens very fast when you are base jumping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRmB4J2dHIg

Yeah? Well, you know that's just like uh, your opinion, man.

Clearly if you'd stopped looking for the PC you'd have got it out sooner.

See reach back, fumble for PC "for a bunch of seconds" land in tree, river or boulders!

cute but no cigar. I said do this from high altitude on a SKYDIVE to test it.

lol... u b right, as usual. Fixed it... theoretically.

:-)

I did not offer hypotheticals.

I suggested test parameters.

For which you offer no data or even a conclusion.

You just offer... more bullshit.

Show us the data, bullshitter.

Or shut up about it.

xo

You can shove the "data" you collect skydiving up your ass. But then I guess you would need to pull your head out of there first... How about you go troll somewhere else.

Oops sorry bad me.
I was under the impression this was a base jumping forum.
As i have not been skydiving for the last couple years i am unable to collect your precious data.
As we can all see you obviously have built a wealth of knowledge in your 3 yrs and 71 jumps in the sport.
Please keep in mind the only reason i contributed my bullshit was simply to assist others to maybe not make as many mistakes as i have.
I hope in the near future you can provide us with substantial data to help us understand your theory. If in fact you have a theory that is in some way logical.

Dont get me wrong i do understand the possibility that in fact some members of our community may actually agree with what you are saying? This in fact could give us some clues as to why some of our beloved friends have managed to die without having a PC deployed.
If this is an actual theory that is being taken seriously then it is a theory well worth discussion in my humble opinion.

You just offer more data each time you post stating you're a moron

You offered flawed to the point of useless test parameters, for reasons I highlighted already.

i dont know you or have anything personally against you, but you really do portray yourself as a moron here.

Perhaps you should consider to post your skydiving science experiments and other inexperienced drivel on dz.com

They might respect your vast experience there more ;)

In review of the video it seems roughly 5 seconds it took to get the PC out. This is objective and obviously there is the unstable issue that casued more of a delay in deployment? Only you can tell us about that flight.

in 3 seconds you hit the tree.

Lesson?

Going back into flight you'd be a dead man.

These guys tried to prove the theory that parachutes save lives but couldn't find any double-blind randomized trials with placebo parachutes and so therefore parachute use to save your life is not evidence based.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/