Basejumper.com - archive

Didn't see this one here yet.
https://www.apexbase.com/...ulletin_SSR_4-16.pdf

Interesting. I'd be curious to see the hardness numbers on those rings. I wonder what's up or if it could be traced.

I've seen failures like that in pull testing of release systems but with a healthy ring it takes A LOT of load to do that.

Lee

I was surprised to see stainless rings bending too. My first thought was I wonder what forge they came from?

Would be interesting if they came from the same place as the hip rings in the recent Vortex harness SB did.

I have been wondering for a while if anyone was using Daesung gear in BASE. I would like to think that a manufacturer would give us a heads up on that one though.

Edit: Of course hardware is generally stamped with a forge identifier.

Stainless steel is softer than Carbon Steel. More elongation, weaker....
take care,
space

You know as well as I do that it is not that simple. Different alloys, complicated forging procedures etc etc.
However, my surprise was actually because I simply don't recall manufacturers having problems with stainless rings bending. Cadmium hardware on the other hand has had problems since the day they started using it.

Hello everyone
When we learned of the bent rings we immediately wanted to find out as much as we could so that we could notify our customers and the BASE community. We contacted our supplier, domestic forges, and others manufacturers in the parachute industry to find out all we could. It was during a call with a UPT rep that we learned we were using a softer type of stainless manufactured by Wichard. Fortunately, during the same call we learned that when UPT pull tested this type of softer ring, the failure point (the T8 webbing) remained the same. Interestingly, the bent rings actually improved the performance of the lever system. Even with this reassurance we sent our risers to another testing facility for confirmation. They confirmed that softer ring did not weaken the system and the webbing does fail before the rings. We are not concerned that these softer stainless steel rings are unsafe but we also don’t think that deformed rings meet our high manufacturing standards and that’s why we’ll replace bent ring stainless steel risers manufactured by Apex BASE. I hope it is clear that we always try to design, engineer, and manufacture the best BASE equipment on the market. Of course, we’re still human and when things don’t work the way they were intended, we will let our customers know via the Parachute Industry Associations (PIA) recommended method of issuing a Service Bulletin. Our goal is to educate the community while providing the high level of customer service and safety you have come to expect from us.

Someone more articulate than me I'm sure will comment but WOW you didn't know what type of stainless you were using?

Are the big rings on harnesses from this same manufacturer and is it made from the same material?

I guess it ends up working sort of like an Aerodyne ring. The more it's bent, the longer the torque moment on the ring. But I think this only improves the mechanical advantage of the small ring? I can't see the middle ring actually getting any stronger from bending.


Maybe I'm being too soft on them, but they are riggers, not metallurgists. It might have been rated to the same load as other rings by the supplier based on the breaking strength, without accounting for mechanical deformation, but that's obviously speculation.

Hey Todd, can I request the stronger bent rings as an option on my next set of risers? And if so, will there be an additional charge for this option?

Good lookin' out and thanks for the heads-up.

Maybe. They are the premium priced company in the market, which is why I jump their gear. So that comes with some expectations. So when Todd uses "meet our high manufacturing standards" and "we learned we were using a softer type of stainless" I'm not sure those two really go together?

Firstly if you ever tried researching hardware you might understand.
Secondly, what is hard or soft? You will find that a lot of "Rated" hardware will fail at double what they are "Rated" for. So a 2500lb piece would actually hold over 5000lbs. How much harder do you want them to be? Like Todd said the webbing will still fail first.
Thirdly, Whichard IS a premium forge (probably the most prolific in parachuting) and I bet that Apex was glad to have them on board to help figure out what the problem was. You just have to look at Parachute Systems/Vortex to see where a non-premium forge will get you.
Yes I know I can be an asshole about shit like this but this time I'm not as bothered. Mainly because the history of parachutes tells us that hardware has had about a million issues over the years.

Edit: Part of your premium goes into maintaining the system that logs all the necessary data to enable issues like this to be identified, tracked down, and minimized. Parts numbers, batch numbers, production numbers, serial numbers etc etc. I would have trouble believing that any BASE manufacturer would be doing this better than Todd.

Edit2: No I don't jump Apex gear so I really don't give a shit either way.

This also seems like a stupid way to choose your equipment.

Actually Todd, The accepted procedure is to get several of your competitors rigs and break them too. That way you can prove that it is not your fault and that the entire industry has been overlooking this particular problem for decades ;-)

Strain (deformation) hardening is a very real phenomenon that is widely exploited as a strengthening mechanism in cold forming and cold rolling of steels.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_hardening

You have trisomy 21?
You honestly don't know Todd do you? You should be cupping his balls and his brothers every time you do a jump. If it wasn't for those two you would have gone in a long time ago.

This is why I ask these questions.

can you make stuff like this more public ?
thanks.
take care.
space

Hey Spacey,
We've posted the Service Bulletin on the following:
Our web site- https://www.apexbase.com/service-bulletin-information-documents
The Parachute Industry Association web site- http://www.pia.com/member-interest/service-bulletins
We posted it on our Facebook page.
We sent it to all our dealers and sent it to Blue Skies Magazine.
We also sent it to 9 BASE related manufacturers and 5 BASE instructions outfits.
Please feel free to email me if you have any other avenues you think are worthy.

Well Apex are doing the right ting informing customers and going the extra mile to pin point the issue. And most of all we can be gratefull it's not a flaw that lead to a fatality.

ParachuteSystems have gone back to Wichard hardware on their Vortex containers after the DSF hardware failure.