Basejumper.com - archive

As weather gets warmer in the mountains, and people start making plans for travel this year, take an honest look at your skill level and personal limits, and make sure youre always jumping well below them. If you see someone making shitty choices, say something. If you get told youre making shitty choices, try to listen and figure out what youre doing that someone would say that. Just remember, being the raddest guy in the sky doesn't mean much if all that footage just gets used for your tribute video.

BFL 1-100 ~25 years
BFL 101-200 ~7 years
BFL 201-282 ~ 3 years

Do I understand this correctly?

Are you saying that the first 100 BASE fatalities had an average of 25 years in parachuting, the second 100 averaged 7 years, and the third 100 averaged just three years in the sport?

No.
He's saying it took 25 years for the first 100 BASE fatalities, then the next hundred only took 7 years.
We're well on our way to hit another hundred fatalities by the end of this flying season.

Thanks! I misread it.

Part of this is an absolute numbers game, so it would be interesting to see how many BASE numbers were issued in the first 25 years, then the next seven, then the last three, to see what kind of ratios are at work, not just absolute numbers.

BASE Numbers: [1]


BFL Numbers: [2]

Thanks! Awesome charts. They appear to show that the fatality curve started bending upwards faster than the BASE # curve just about the time wingsuits started showing up at launch points.

Does anyone else read it that way?

Definitely one interpretation. I could also say it was about the time mentorship ended and pay for play base courses started to gain more popularity.

No, it's mostly the wingsuits...

You could also add the rise of GoPro / YouTube / Facebook into the mix as well.

Paid FJCs could be seen as a symptom of the increasing numbers of people seeking to enter the sport rather than a contributor, though obviously they go hand in hand to a degree.

But I'm a noob from the FJC era anyway so maybe I have a warped view of things.

Haha kind of hard to argue with that.

I think mentorship really weeded out some of those who didnt wanna have to work that hard to get into the sport. Some late nights sitting around doing GC. I was scared as fuck when i was learning. Doing night loads off dark towers. Didnt even go to the Perrine till I had 20 jumps.

It's not the FJCs. Or the GoPros. Or YouTube. These are correlations, but not direct causes. Maybe you could argue that YouTube influences people to go harder in their wingsuit...but the most proximate cause is the wingsuit itself (and more specifically terrain flying).

A lot of the older school guys like to point at FJCs and GoPro causing noobies to burn in with no education, no experience, and no respect for the sport but the data just isn't there. It's primarily experienced jumpers with big suits adding themselves to the BFL.

Sucker, I learned BASE jumping from napster.

but seriously Charley is right. Not that all fatalities are due to not knowing one's limits, but a good chunk can definitely be attributed. A big problem I see is big wingsuits are easy. So many people have <1 year of experience wingsuiting and flying the lines people took years to work up to. Nothing wrong with it, but be conscious of it. Different times for different dimes, but I don't think you get to learn limits in BASE. You learn limits in other high risk, not so deadly sports. Climbing, skiing, fmx. Actually, you learn humility. It takes a long time in BASE to learn humility. It usually kills you before it humbles you.

Sorry to get all legal on your ass Joe, but the proximate cause is impact with the ground (and occasionally other object).

As for you Charley, thanks for the reminder to play safe. It always bears repeating. The ripples of our actions carry far beyond ourselves into a much bigger pond - for you dumbasses who don't get it, this means if you burn in, you affect far more people than you can even begin to imagine. So err on the side of caution.

That's pretty profound and well said. I'm going to use that, likely claim it as my own.

Good old Mitch. Wise beyond his 13 years of age. :D

14 as of today there Gary. Obviously old enough to party with you in a Malaysian night club. Memories that need to be re-created! :)

Hunned percent hermano!!

Takes a while to develop humility at exit too. Seems to be enough ego on mixed loads that folks aren't comfortable speaking up. I've learned quite a few things from thoughtful suggestions at gear-up and/or exit. Many of which I adopted and feel make me a safer jumper. Speak up, even if its uncomfortable. THINK about the suggestions others may offer you.

Also, don't fly a canopy directly into power lines. Also good advice. And no, you will never live that down.

Would it be more pertinent to understand how many base jumps are done in those time periods. I would expect (hope?) that the fatality ration (deaths:jumps) would be going down.

Exactly, now I'm forever that guy pointing out powerlines at exit !

...cause you know, some people may not know to avoid them.

I blame track suits for being so damn lame!!!

LOL
still have an audio file of the panicked call to 911 from the power line dangler?

Thanks for tips. I totally agree that us daredevils need to remember to stay safe and not to get overconfident! Taking the necessary precautions to enjoy base jumping but also be safe is really easy, so don't avoid them.

Welcome to the forum. Based on your first three posts I think you're going to do well here.

Thanks

That is the best quote yet.... Mitch, when you turn 21, I will buy you a beer! Fortunately, you won't be 21 for a while....

You sure hid it well! Balls of steel from the first day in my book. Jumping a trash packed wet canopy w water dripping out of your container at exit. And if I remember way back then correctly you were part of the load at the power tower when every cop in town chased the van and we had to hide in the woods till morning when you came back and rescued us.

For slambo it really came down to good mentoship.

Mentos help you keep your cool when things go badly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4hlzRNu3uE

Ah the memories!

Yup, the freshmaker. Good old JT and his sarcasm.

The backstory? First time ever meeting Shane and JT, 8 BASE jumps under my belt, 2006. Stoked. Driving to go get off a local object at sunset. I start talking about my mentor. JT: "a mentor? what is that? What, like Mentos? The freshmaker?"

God I was happy you got poison oak all over yourself that night...

Ill just bump this back up to the top. 2 months since the original post, 5 fatalities, and its not even july yet. Its a race to see who gets to be #300!

Who is it gonna be ....hmmmm

Make that 6

Dont be so quick to judge, june has not ended yet!

2 questions for all:

1.You get a gear check on exit, and your friend discovers a total malfunction. You'd have died if you jumped. Do you... fix it and then jump? Walk away and take the rest of the day off? Quit jumping forever?


2. five, or six, or seven experienced jumpers go in, in a short period of time. Do you... try to be a little bit safer yourself, and press on? Take a "safety day" with your local crew, even if it means giving up perfect weather on your annual 1 week trip to the Valley? Go to the DZ and practice your accuracy? Question your entire participation in the sport?



Legitimate open questions... and no disrespect meant for anyone who would pick any (or none) of the above. For #1 I would probably take at least the rest of the day off. And repack every single one of my rigs... carefully. Quitting the sport would definitely cross my mind.

For #2... I would try to do a "safety day" type of thing. And while maybe not thinking of quitting the sport, at very least questioning my goals and what risks I'm willing to take. (i.e. do I jump solo? do I jump if the winds are "probably" OK? Should i try WS base some day? do I pack neatly enough? do friends tell me to slow down? is there risky peer-pressure in my crew? do I ever rush myself?)

1 have not had a gear check since my first year if I pack myself a total I'm going in.
2 on a base trip right now and was on one of the recent fatal loads. Have not made a jump after accident so I guess I'm on a little break

Good questions.

#1 I am so anally meticulous that I don't risk getting gear checks by anyone else, since I am terrified that they are going to fuck up something that I just checked fifty times.

#2 All those people that just "went in ", did something stupid that I am so anally meticulously not going to do, so I just shrug my shoulders and carry on.

Regards, B.

1) I'd go in, too. I don't ask for gear checks outside of the occasional "everything LOOK reasonable back there?" Maybe I snagged a bush and want a visual OK. Otherwise, I just checked my rig 5x and don't want anyone touching it.

I think its vital for folks to speak up when they see something that makes them uncomfortable at exit. It can be awkward...but do it anyway. Could be gear related...or other habits/behaviors. I've really appreciated the suggestions offered to me on exit. In the end people will keep what they like and ignore the rest, but at least they thought about it.

1. I'd like to think I would walk away entirely. That's certainly what my answer used to be. But at this point I'm not really sure. I would not continue with the current jump.

I actually stopped getting gear checks at the point I did in order to make sure I would be comfortable with solo jumps. I started using techniques to check my bridle routing without taking the rig off. Recently, since I've proved to myself that I'm comfortable going it alone, I've started saying "yes" whenever anyone asks me if I want a gear check, but never asking for it. Like the others, I generally don't like people touching my pins.

2. I'd like to think I'm already pushing as hard as I can to reflect on my jumping. I've never really had anyone close to me die (BASE or otherwise), but every time I read about a fatality, I generally think of it as just being part of the sport. It isn't some deep moment of reflection. It doesn't frighten or unnerve me any more than normal, but maybe that's because I'm already very, very afraid.

#1 I'd walk down and take at least a few weeks off. Spend the time re-training either rigging or gear-up/packing techniques. There's no excuse for packing a mal in BASE. If I packed a mal "by accident" without obvious contributing factors (fatigue, champagne room packjob, etc), I'd at least quit long enough to become uncurrent and force myself to re-train all my old habits.

#2 If I was doing WS BASE right now, I'd do the same thing I did for 6 months last year and switch to other types of jumping/sky sports. If I go in and my friends keep jumping the next day like nothing happened or do a memorial jump at the same exit, fuck you guys. Slow down, go hiking without your magic backpack, smell the roses and eat some wild strawberries. Cross-train, learn a new sport, go party with some Aussies or gang bang some groupies. Go hug all the people who'd attend your memorial. Admittedly living in the Alps makes that a bit easier than if it happens on your only 3 week trip to the Valley.

#1. I often ask a friend to take a quick
peek at my pins + bridle, but only if the
person available is smart and capable.

If only strangers and newbies are around
I would rather leave alone what I know to
be good, plus I do not have 3-rings, and
can check my own straps and laterals.

However, IF I had mis-routed my bridle
and would have died, then yeah, I would
very likely NOT jump for a while...


#2. I do not wingsuit. Hence most of
the recent fatalities do not shake my
confidence about my style of jumping,
which is mostly slider-off and simple.


Side note: I have caught two people with
bridles running through a leg-straps on a
tower and on a plane we caught a big guy
with a totally misrouted chest-strap.

All 3 jumped after their total fuck-ups
had been caught and fixed by others.

I'm not sure that the total mal that got Leming would have been caught by a routine gear check. People watching him replace his pin with out unstowing his bridle/pc may have caused concern. But in a routine gear check...I wouldn't imagine someone would be lifting his flaps to ensure the bridle is on the correct side of the bottom loop, at least from what I've seen. Obviously speculation.

I completely agree. When someone asks me to give them a gear check, it usually crosses my mind that a "gear check" means a lot of different things to different people. I will usually tell them exactly what I'm checking, like "your pins are clear" or "your 3-ring is properly hooked up". The hard thing to deal with, is after the bridle goes under the pin flap, it kind of disappears and is near impossible to visually inspect without pulling it out. I have actually pulled a bridle out of the channel on someone else to check it before. Many times I have stuck my finger just under the flap to check that it at least feels right.

I'm curious what people think: at what level are you responsible for someone's gear are you giving them a gear check? I think the safest answer is not at all, but then I feel like that deflection of responsibility might make a person checking their buddy's gear complacent.

Opposing bridle color helps. Black on black is the worst.

I always check where the bridle goes in the flap on comes out of the flap from the bottom pin to the BOC when doing a gear check.

I agree - but it should be caught in a gear check.
What's the point of a gear check otherwise?
It would have been easily caught if anyone had just verified that the bridle went directly from the pin to the PC - though this does mean pulling the bridle out from under the flap and pushing it back under when done and I know that many (myself included) might not do that when checking someone else at an exit point - though I do always check that the bridle runs directly from under the flap to the BOC and not around the leg strap / lateral.

P.S. I almost never get a gear check. I get quite paranoid about my gear and take so long checking it before I put in on I'm usually the last person to be geared up on every load I'm on.

I tuck my bridle in pretty close to the center of my pin cover (directly beneath bottom pin). If giving me a gear check you would lift my side flap and visually confirm my bridle was not looped around my closing loop? If so, kudos. I have not seen this level of diligence at exit very often. It would be like seeing someone reach under the top flap to ensure the bridle is properly attached...thorough, but not likely part of a routine gear check.

Not trying to suggest what should be included/excluded from a gear check. Just thinking through the ones I've seen. I don't recall seeing many that would have caught this total mal.

When performing a WS gear check for someone, I generally:
1. Check pins
2. check bridle routing-free and clear of leg straps
3. Verbally confirm leg/chest strap/internal zippers
4. Ensure shit isn't poking out of rear zippers.
5. Make sure their handle is visible and feels good to them
6. Ask about 3 ring
7. Ask if they have a hook knife accessible
8. Most important "yes, you are blinking"

Any best practices folks want to suggest?

PS- it frustrates me when people approach the edge w/o their arm wings zipped up...why do they do that?

Personally, easier to hold onto shit or grab something in case i slip or trip, even if the only option would be clawing into grass. Once you tumble off the edge wings zipped or not makes little difference, so i put all my bets not to tumble in the first place. YMMV

Clear of leg straps? What kind of wing suits are you checking - some of Tony's first gen shit?

And I go to the edge without arms done up because it's easier.

I just ensure the bridle is routed beneath the closing loop and not above it, then ensure I see the bridle go into the BOC. If it was looped around the closing loop, I probably wouldn't notice unless the excess bridle made a significant gap.

Don't be a pussy
I personally don't do my zips because it makes taking a selfie really hard

These are fair points. I tumble off the exit half the time trying to bend my head down far enough to reach my go pro:)

I make sure when I go to the edge I have my wings unzipped so I can tell the drone operator which area I want him filming me, then turn on 4 go pros every angle and then tell friends to start filming so it all looks awesome on my athlete page,

So maybe someone might think I am an athlete and might get a sponsor that I pay to have and get nothing in return for all that work so I feel good about myself and think I am actually better then anyone else that jumps off a wall.

You are not pretty enough to get sponsored
P.S. Maybe consider a full face helmet.

So what your saying is

I have a good head for radio ?

There you go. You should see if biker117 needs help spamming his podcast across the forum

Been there. A buddy of mine. We discovered a bridle routed through the legstrap(HH) after he said he is ready to go and asked for a pincheck.
Fixed it and he jumped like nothing happened. Maybe because it was he 10th jump or so.

Myself personally, I had a similar experience when repacking my PC on a rather cold day, would have definitely gone it if skipped it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXBhD1iGcQQ

I see no reason to abort the jump just because of that. Because really, whats the difference? You do checks and other safety procedures exactly for this kind of situation. You can bail if you just don't feel like jumping after that, but that can happen on any jump even if all is well.

Been there as well except I was going solo so I discovered my self. Had already climbed to the rail of a 90m Dam (planning to go HH) when I discovered this : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/.../something_wrong.png. I fixed the situation, re-checked the bridle continuity and jumped. I also see no reason to bail out on a such event because like the previous poster wrote, this kind of shit is the reason we do check our gear in the first place. I was angry at my self for making such a basic mistake but happy to see that I had checks as part of my pre-jump procedure to find it out.

(What actually caused the situation was that I hadn´t stowed my PC when I packed my rig and as I knew I was going to go hand held, I didn´t bother to stow it to POC but just stashed it under my chest strap when climbing to the rail. And then of course, pulled it out from the wrong side of the chest strap once on the rail. So all and all, stupid way of almost killing your self as the whole event could have been avoided by not being lazy and taking the extra 3 minutes to stow the PC properly for the climb.)

The reason to not jump after catching a fatal misrouting is because it is a fairly clear indication that something about your mental state and level of attention to detail is behind the curve, and it's dumb to jump when you know that you are behind the curve.

It doesn't mean you are fundamentally unfit to BASE jump and should quit, just that you're unfit at that moment and it's smartest to jump some other time when you aren't so tired/distracted/rushed to jump/etc... that can accidentally step out onto an exit point strapped to a death sentence.

We all have our views and I don´t mean to say yours is wrong. And neither that mine is correct. But I respectfully disagree with you. In a way, every time you step on to an exit, you´re strapped on to a death sentence. It is our skill and actions that save us from certain death. In freefall, you use the skills learned from skydiving and easier exits to save your ass if something goes wrong, you recover from a bad exit etc. The same way we have built procedures before the exit to find out flaws in our course of actions, that´s why we check our gear time after time, repack our pilot chutes, check our bridle routing etc. Because nobody is perfect. Heck, if I´m doing a SL jump, I check my bridle routing probably 5 times just to be sure. The same way airline pilots are using their check lists, just to ensure that they are doing everything right. For sure they know how to do it right (as they have the training) but they also are human so there can be flaws in their actions. So they have implemented procedures to ensure that they do not act with flaws that would have fatal consequenses.

Like I said, if you feel that after you´ve discovered potentially a fatal flaw in your setup you shouldn´t jump, by all means, you shouldn´t jump. If you feel you need to consider quitting BASE, you by all means should. What I think about it is that I just discovered a flaw in my actions which for sure I will not do again and I´m happy that I have implemented the necessary precautions to be able to find it. Because I know that I´m very much human and therefore make mistakes.

Sure, but my main point is just that a fatal misrouting is something that shouldn't fall under the category of normal human error.

It's a very prominent mistake to make that should be very hard to miss for anyone with appropriate levels of experience.

But I'm not saying that it can't happen to well experienced jumpers. Just that if someone who is otherwise competent and cautious makes such a mistake, then I would just question their readiness for jumping in that moment because missing something so huge indicates to me they are not as focused as they should be or can be.

Come back and jump it another day when you are focused - mountains don't run away.

But yea, this is just my approach to these kinds of things, and it's a marginal issue for something that hopefully rarely happens.

You obviously need a spring loaded pilot chute.

I'll convert your rig to use one.

Double burn.

"

You're very clever aren't you.

Not if I convert yours first! ;)

Deal!!!

Remember to start with making it a one pin. It's MUCH easier to make a single pin ripcord set up.

I like all the interesting perspectives people have shared, thanks. I don't disagree with any of them. Would I walk away from the jump, after finding a fatal mal? I guess it truly depends on how egregious it was. Like shveddy i subscribe to the "error chain" theory of aeronautical mishaps. Looking back sometimes, it's obvious to see there was more than 1 thing fucked up, and the whole disaster could have been prevented if someone caught the solitary warning sign. Usually there are multiple small warning signs that go overlooked, but they are easy to rationalize away. Finding a mis-route or a locked pin is like a cockroach-- for every mistake you acknowledge, there are several hiding out of sight. (sometimes in "plain sight")

I'm not saying anyone else should operate this way. I also am a big fan of checklist methodology and it helps us move forward with things where we'd otherwise be paralyzed by risk (or dead from it). With a truly isolated error, I'd probably fix it and press on. assuming I wasn't too shaken up to function.


(by the way.. i converted your mom last night)

And I spent half an hour last night trying to push my spring-loaded "you-know-what" down into your mom, but I just couldn't get it to fit.

(Maybe I should trade your mom for a Prism)

So weird, because it was super easy to push it into your mom. Cmon that was too obvious ;)

I really thought this was a forum about BASEJumping, maybe you should try shittalker.com!?

Mom jokes are as big a part of BASE jumping as an apex vented non-spring loaded pilot chute. Also hookit was one of my first base mentors ;)

Sometimes it is. Many people like cooking too. In fact, I'm going make a kick ass breakfast in a minute.

A spring loaded BASE rig is a pilot bail out rig designed for a square. I built the harnesses and other parts for someone but he didn't get it TSOed. It needed minor tweaks but it was solid. At least one of them is being used still.

A similar design is out there now. Square parachute, spring loaded pilot chute and all....

Wrong thread. Woops.

I'm just checking. Please continue.

^^^^^

Partying heavily the night before, being rushed, being distracted (by a large group on the exit point or a million other things), having an "off day" / not feeling it but pushing through it anyway, cutting any corners, etc. the list goes on and on.

Everyone has "warning signs" / "little things" on jumps...not even infrequently. It's just not wise to jump when they keep stacking up before you jump. Because then all those little things with a touch of bad luck or fuckupery and you have a bad day

...bump...