Basejumper.com - archive

Incident at Sri Lanka BASE tour
During the Sri Lanka BASE tour there was an incident involving an Australian jumper.
After a good exit, stable freefall and a 1.5sec slider down delay, the right riser 3ring failed on opening. This failure caused the canopy to spiral uncontrollably until the jumper impacted the pavement. On-site EMS arrived within 1-2mins as well as medically trained jumpers, and found the injured jumper conscious and remained conscious during transport to the local hospital. X-rays revealed fractures in the back at L3, and L5, some ribs, pelvis, as well as a fractured femur. The jumper is able to move all extremities, and did not have any head trauma due to the fact they wore a helmet. They will require surgeries to fix the fractures in the back, as well as the femur.


The video confirmed what eyewitnesses saw from the exit, as well from the ground. Inspection by 2 riggers found the risers were of an older construction where the small ring webbing used a narrower type 4, and given the amount of jumps on the gear, and condition of the rings that had quite a bit of rust on them, it's believed this contributed to significant wear, (as seen on the riser that remained in tact) which caused this riser to fail.

 

Hey vertical flyer..

How about saying I hope you have a speedy recovery instead of being a wanker?

I am sure the jumper has enough embarrassment.

What part of the riser failed? Several scenarios come to mind.

Did you measure the geometry of the riser's rings to see if it was loading the rings instead of the type 8?

Heal fast dude.

Sounds a lot like basic maintanence was pretty poorly neglected of the 3 rings on the risers were rusted.


Another very interesting talking point on this incident is leaving a slider on during slider down jumps. I was actually taught to leave the slider on always for just such a random chance scenario. I've always told people that when asked why I leave my slider on when I have rigs that will never be jumped slider up, and have had several people laugh at me. I think it's pretty obvious that if this was a slider off jump instead of a slider down jump, this is 100% a fatality.

The webbing holding the smallest ring broke.

Was it phosphate "black" hardware?

The black hardware is rougher and more prone to rusting.
Though it looks cool, I am retiring my harnesses with black hardware.
I had damage on the loop holding the 3-rings due to black hardware during the Malaysia trip last year.
In a damp surrounding rusting can occur quite fast.

i guess you didnt see sketchy andys interpretation of being attached only on one riser?

Glad you are still with us. I hope the medical care over there is better than I imagine it to be.

You mean the video where (functionally) the exact same thing happens and the fact that he has a slider on also keeps the canopy partially inflated and from becoming a streamer, exactly like I just said? Yes I saw that. Whats your point?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h52bFl9qqmE

 

I'm sooooo tired of reading low effort posts from 15 year lurkers that claim they have lost so many friends and probably the first to post "RIP Vague BASE friend" on your FB for attention.

Was this gear subject to any water landings? salt/fresh?

If anyone has ever watched Gary pack and jump at kl, we all know he's constantly covered in salt water ;). Seriously though, between the humidity and constant sweat/moisture, combined with probably literally thousands of jumps on risers, and the older style construction, all these could play a role.

To play devil's advocate here- some people have argued on this forum, that when a slider gets pulled up the lines, as it does in a "half-release" scenario, it actually collapses the good half of the canopy somewhat. And that you'd be better off with 3 fully inflated cells (and no slider). Also if the slider is not secured down, there is no real transmission of force through the lines from the released side, so that side isn't doing anything to support you. But maybe the presence of the slider does something to keep the free lines from entangling the functional half of your system.

Andy's video showed only 3 inflated cells, and I'm not sure the slider helped him, sliding up high as it did. Not trying to hijack the thread from the main incident to the older one, but it offers a useful demonstration. (I suppose Andy survived unscathed from impact on soft, steep slope, moreso than from his slider)

I keep my slider on, too. My interpretation is, if you are going to keep the slider on for the purpose of what you describe, it might work better to tie it down somehow. I tie the front grommet to the connector link with break cord. (I don't know if 80 lbs break strength is enough, maybe I will start doubling up the loops)

Also I anticipate a catastrophic spin configuration, unless I was able to actually reach up to the detached riser and pull it back down level with the other one. But I haven't tested that empirically.

Heal fast, Gary. Sorry to hear about this accident.

It would be interesting to see some photos of the failed riser.

I had a discussion with Todd @ Apex Base about big rings vs. small rings, when I ordered my last rig. Gear nowadays seems to be all made with big rings by default. I asked Todd to make me small rings on Type 8, and he did, though he pointed out very strongly, that the concentration of forces on small rings can approach the failing strength of the system. When I took my OSP to terminal with the fast slider, on these risers, his comments were echoing loudly in my mind :)

I wanted small rings to keep my fleet standardized. My gear is in good shape and I trust it. But after hearing of this incident, I think my next rig will have big rings.

I actually had the opposite experience. Marty at Asylum only stocks small ring risers (as of last September). He did say he could do custom orders when he had time though.

To further play the devils advocate.
I honestly wonder how much experience plays a role.

AAJ (American Alpine Journal) lists yearly the incidents/fatalities in climbing/mountaineering. It tends to be the more experienced climbers with incidents then the noobs.

No disrespect AT ALL to Gary. Heal up brother. But 3400 jumps was there a commentary inside your head saying " there fine " ??

Honestly we all do it in some way, shape or form. But does the experience level increase the " it's fine " comments we all say to ourselves?

Someone once told me a circle of thoughts in one's BASE career.
1. noob... obsesses over every fold in the pack job due to LACK of knowledge

2. experienced.. " it's fine " (>100 jumps)

3. advanced/old age.. obsesses over the folds due to knowing how much shit is/can go wrong.

Heal up Gary.

I don't think it's neccesarily hijacking because it's a good discussion of a real thing. Good counter point, and I'd be interested to see what would happen in a one riser no slider cutaway scenario. My thoughts are that the slider limits the distance the the cutaway riser can travel, thereby keeping some sort of tension on lines and keeping the canopy somewhat inflated. Does anyone know of a one riser cutaway with no slider? Interesting test to perform for someone that has access to a hot air balloon or a giant cliff they want to rollover and cutaway from.

my bad, i apologise. i was mistaken and thought he did it without slider...

youre allowed to be wrong, but the internet way is to mock you and make you feel bad about it

Heal fast Gary, best wishes from all in the UK

Cross connected risers work. This is old news. But as you say the slider moving up the lines would diminish the effects. I still think it would be better than no cross connection.
Tying the slider down is a good idea. I suspect that shit could exceed 80lbs though. Maybe a soft link?

Standard or reverse (I'm assuming standard)? Large rings definitely have a mechanical advantage over the minis. Large rings being about 100-1, I can't think of the mini ring numbers right now but I want to say that Rob Jones once told me it was only about 50-1. Standard risers also have a mechanical advantage over reverse risers due to the leverage of the loop passing back through the riser increasing its strength by 2-1. Not sure what the exact numbers are for the reverse riser loops.

Reverse risers, actually. Those 100:1 and 50:1 ratios sound right to me, too.

Thank you, that is the phrase i couldn't bring to mind last night :)

a slink would be a good idea too!

I'm very surprised you talked Todd into building those for you.

Edit: Also, Why?

Just a heads up:

http://www.jumpshack.com/...ID=3RING&SortBy=

Jumping something that the manufacturer has told you is close to its failing strength seems pretty crazy to me, and confusing that Apex would involve themselves

To address a few replies at once:

Apex's stock riser is a reverse riser (i.e. Integrity-style). There are other manufacturers that do this, i.e. if you check out the websites for Asylum and SkunkApe, you will see they make Integrity style as well. Morpheus and Badseed appear to make regular risers. Just glancing at their website.

Also as Ian pointed out, Asylum's stock riser design appears to be a type 8 reverse riser with mini rings. This is basically what I had Todd build me.

The Apex website states that this is available on request.

Todd never said it was black death to jump, he basically just said the rated strength was closer to maximum testing loads (he didn't say by how much).

I have been jumping mini rings on 3-second slider-down jumps since 2004 on risers built by both Vertigo and Apex, prior to ordering this newest pair. They all wore well.

Look around and you'll see hundreds of jumpers jumping exactly the same design gear as I have. I didn't request anything that is not already widespread in use.

I have literally pulled my own risers apart on engineering test stands, and seen where they break and at what loads.

So, as far as I am concerned, it is basically proven technology. It just depends on how "overbuilt" you want stuff, and do you trust yourself to inspect it regularly. That is the best argument in favor of it I can make. Like I said I may migrate to big rings or integrated risers, but I have reason to believe my gear is very safe meanwhile. I do want to hear counterarguments though because it's my ass in the seat.

Different manufacturers will tell you different things depending on how they like to do something. I think they takeaway from this is not "if you have small rings on your risers they'll probably break", because we obviously don't see that in practice at all. Gary freely admits that these risers were very old, had seen rough conditions, and even started to rust.

I had a canopy that I bought from a family after a friend had died that had a large logo on it. One manufacturer had produced it, and before I bought it another inspected it an deemed it not air worthy because of the type of logo placed on it. I then jumped it for 300 jumps without any issues or noticable wear. Certain things we know to be black death, certain things people argue about.

I understand, it was just the "I had a discussion with Todd" bit. I know fuck all about rigging, and if someone like him said that, I would go the overbuilt option.

If so, that would be some sweet information to share if you had it documented anywhere.

The real takeaway is that if you have well used risers then keep a close eye on the tiny piece of webbing that holds on the smallest ring. If that breaks, the riser will release.
I am assuming once all forces are taken into account, that could be the weakest part of the system.
Maybe one of the riser experts can explain the forces during opening on the small piece of webbing that holds on the smallest ring.

I tested climbing gear to failure (cams, slings, etc.) in college. To meet UIAA requirements, we kept test pieces in atmospheric chambers for a minimum of 24 hours at specific temperatures, pressures, and humidity. We then had to test within an hour of removing them from the chamber.

It's been a long time, but I remember there being a difference when we [deliberately] did not meet those standards.

Simple intellectual curiosity, but how many tests did you conduct? How similar was the gear (same type, manufacturer)? Would you share the results?

That was a long time ago, for my own amusement. unfortunately it did not involve rigorous methods. more like, "i have old risers. i have a pull tester. lets break things". I tried to solicit more old gear from others on this forum, but no one actually sent me anything that they said they would

now several laptops later, i didn't really preserve anything i can share meaningfully in a short forum reply. PM if you want, but the bottom line is, the worn risers held loads higher than rated with an n# of 2.

Yes I would be pretty keen to see this too.

IMHO, this says it all, in relation to this particular incident. Risers can break, in allmost all cases either because of wear (e.g. old) or some construction/manufacturing error. And then, we jump them slider down too.

Ronald

JBag thanks for your value added comment I have no intention of having a debate especially not with a obnoxious child. Somebody fucked up and people should not be surprised if total lack of equipment maintenance results in shit happening. As for FB hilarious I don't engage in narcicism which seems the norm for the 5 year old mentality generation who are obsessed with telling everyone every time they did something rad. Jumping used to be for yourselves and sites used to be secret. These days it seems no one cares but then I guess that reflects the attitude of the look at me idiots with unicorn sticks and 6 go pros lobbing off anything they have seen online in a desperate hope of becoming the next hero at the weekend. The numbers on the BFL speak for themselves.

There's some pretty good discussion going on here. Please don't turn the next 5 posts into a back and forth about who spends more time on Facebook (regardless of who started what).

I can't believe that no one pointed out another obvious cause of this event, and anyone who has been to kl will know exactly what I'm talking about. BASE BOOGIE FEVER!

That is known to be a highly contagious condition which rapidly spreads to even normally sensible and conservative BASE jumpers.
The Sri Lankan strain of the virus is particularly bad, known to push rigs to breaking point when overworked.

While it appears not to be obvious to at least some who posted on this thread, no I was not thinking "this is going is going to snap on this trip. I will just jump it and see what mess it makes."
I did very badly underestimate how much more the webbing holding on the smallest ring could take.

Maybe you are making light of the situation but I don't understand how the fuck you came to this conclusion. The only thing you can take away from this is don't jump your gear until it breaks. If you are already "Cleaning" rust from the metal of your 3rings then it's time for new risers.

I do not believe this to be correct. At least it is not where risers historically break.

Are there any pictures of the risers available? I'm interested to see exactly where the small webbing failed.

Seems like a logical conclusion to me?

Anyway - I have been told by a rigger that once forces are taken into account the white loop can end up being one of the stronger parts of the system.
He told me that risers he tested to destruction in the past actually broke on the riser itself, near where the webbing for the small ring was sewn on.
But I don't know the age / condition / construction of the risers he tested so it's hard to say how useful this info is.

Looks like you'll be spending the first day of Jumping at KL on safety duty.

Glad you didn't die, Gary. Heal up quick.

Define "Break". What exactly broke? Where exactly did it break? "Near" is not informative enough. Yes I understand you may not know these answers.
The reason I say this is that in skydiving I have seen 3rings break but not fail in the location you mention. The stitching locating the small ring and it's webbing can break which leads to asymmetry of the system. The riser and its webbing holds but the system is broken (more than one skydiver has jumped this scenario un-noticed).

Edit: Also to further confuse matters when discussing risers it makes a big difference what risers you are referring to (Type8/Type17).

So funny and true for participants, such a nightmare for organizers. Happens every year on Zakynthos.

I think everyone here is differentiating between "absolute strength" and "relative strength" (hopefully I'm using understandable terms). But what about the susceptibility to damage of the components? I don't think this incident necessarily gives us information about the strength of the small webbing any more than someone dragging standard risers across asphalt gives us about strength of the white loop. From what I've read here, it seems more like damage caused by abrasion of rust than an actual weak point in the system.

You're right, it was just what I was told during a brief discussion. I'll see if I can get some more info and post it here.

I don't know why you have difficulty understanding that conclusion. As you say, replace your gear before it breaks. To know that it needs replacing you need to inspect all the parts. Even then different people would argue exactly where the line is where fine becomes not fine.

It became the weakest part of my particular riser release system, but that is including factoring in many years of wear on gear.
Since risers historical don't break from this point, it is a part that may be more easily overlooked.
Lonnie's post stated that the webbing holding my small ring was type 4. What is it usually on more modern BASE risers?

I guess I just don't understand how you can notice the rust but assume the webbing is good to go.

Good point.

I can not claim to know what each manufacturer's specs are but 1 inch Type 4 is the most likely to be found on large ring risers. Mr Booth says 5/8 inch Type 4 may be used for mini rings. Type 4 "Tape" is also known as square weave due to its construction and can be clearly identified by its "square weave" (square weave is what is commonly used for bridles and riser confluence wraps). Whether or not your risers were made with Type 4 is ultimately irrelevant as structural strength was not the cause of this incident.

Here is some risers I retired after 6-700 jumps. It's a little hard to tell from the picks but they are close to half way worn through.

its not about 6-700 jumps......., have u guys thought about using a packing mat 4 ur harness, special the part when u sit on ur canopy 2 fill up the tailpocket with ur lines????

I use my stashbag. Put your container in it before packing and it's protected from "the elements" (friction, UV, idiots in the packing area, etc). The cinch-cord keeps your risers together.

What do you mean this happens every year on Zakynthos? You guys do like one jump a day and then put on furry speedos and rub suntan lotion all over each other while cruising on your mopeds. Sure it's boogie fever, just a different type of "Boogie Fever".

While rolling our tits off! and maybe 2 jumps, but yes, that is the recipe!

Hahahaha that was amazing. It's interesting the different cultures within base. There is definitely a group that I would affectionately call "burning man base jumpers". As not a huge partier, I kind of move in and out of this circle, but some awesome friends and good people for sure!

I see what you're saying about the "different cultures" in BASE. Some jumpers REALLY like to party like motherfuckers. But everybody who shows up to Zak is a hardcore jumper, there's just so much other rad shit to do and see on that island besides trying to force 4 jumps a day off that cliff, it just kind is what it is. It's always so windy with mandatory 3 second delays, we just call it after 2 jumps and hit the scooters. You sound perfect hjumper33, see you there!

Oh ive heard the stories and seen the pictures. Its on the to do list eventually. Ill have to plan in advance for next year.

For the record I have seen the tape on the small ring break on skydiving risers. I think... three times. I've seen two risers break in other ways. So I've actually seen more mini risers break at this point then any other. I've also seen it fail there on heavy drops and in pull testing of releases.

The internal forces, those between the middle and last ring, can become the fail point. The smaller you build the system the more you lower the mechanical advantage. Mini rings are among the worst ideas we've ever had. If you really want to use mini rings then look at the oval ring on Aerodyne risers. Smartest thing any one has done for a while. I don't know why they are not standard on all rigs by now. They'll sell you the rings if you want them. Also they have a big ring version of their middle ring. It's awesome. Only thing is they are all shiny. I know it's not cool but if you want a strong riser, they're the way to go.

Lee

Is this what you're talking about?

Makes sense, making the middle ring (7) longer gains you advantage without the width.

That would be the one he was referring to.

patent reasons i suppose?

full ack.

never understood that. i suppose the main reason to go there is looks/style?

See the first point

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/iconsptech.asp

What is a patent good for? 15 years? 20 years?
That ring must have been around nearly 15 years now.

It was for a recovery system, but they were perfectly happy to sell the rings to me. Booth's house, airplane, business, etc. were all based on licensing the three ring to every manufacturer in the world. If they were smart they would make their fortune selling rings to every one on earth.

Lee

Disregarding the philanthropic contribution of licensing the 3-ring, Bill doesn't have to worry about production when he chooses to license his inventions. It's allows him to keep his business smaller (read: manageable), which I think anyone who has run a successful business can appreciate. Same thing with the curved pin and the pull out pilot chute (among other things). The smart thing is to do what makes you happy, not what makes you money, unless money makes you happy (it probably won't).

https://www.google.com/...%20a%20patent%20last

https://en.wikipedia.org/...-ring_release_system

20 years, and yes it is up, according to the highly credible Google and Wikipedia.

20 yrs is standard, although extensions and data exclusivity can add time beyond this. And Id be interested in knowing if the patent(s) are filed in most developed countries as the costs could be astronomical. Any patent lawyers want to chime in? Perhaps the tecnology is just copyrighted?

Not quite. http://www.google.com/patents/US6983913

That's the Aerodyne patent?

I think this is Bill's 3-ring patent, which is referenced in the previous link's citations.

http://www.google.com/patents/US4337913

The bottom of that page says expired due to un-paid maintenance fees.

Follow the thread!

RiggerLee says, " If you really want to use mini rings then look at the oval ring on Aerodyne risers. Smartest thing any one has done for a while."

84n4n4 replies,

"patent reasons i suppose?"

Tampapete says,

"See the first point

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/iconsptech.asp "

The first point is "Aerodyne’s innovative and patented stainless steel MiniforceTM 3-ring system"

Fledging responds, "What is a patent good for? 15 years? 20 years?
That ring must have been around nearly 15 years now. "

To which gharrop posts the link to Aerodyne's Miniforce patent.

Yes, I think they are all talking about the miniforce rings!!

They can still pay the fees and renew the patent at any time. (http://www.clm.com/publication.cfm?ID=489) Though their money would be better spent on a new team outfit.

For sky use it doesn't seem to improve cutaway force enough to be worth the effort of retrofitting rigs (moving cutaway cable housings, TSO, etc), so I don't see anyone rushing to pay the $10k+ tooling/startup costs. And no BASE manufacturer is gonna pay that.

Sounds messy.
Back on track though, I hope Gary is healing up some.

That all makes more sense now.

I flew back from Sri Lanka about a week ago with an unscheduled 2 day S$3700 stop in Singapore after Qantas refused to let me board the connecting flight to Sydney. All doctors in Sri Lanka and Singapore declared me medically fit to fly but it was still an expensive epic mission for Qantas to accept that. I spent the last week in an Australian hospital which just made me sicker and sent my recovery backwards. Somehow their level of care seems nowhere near as good as the hospital in Sri Lanka. Now I have moved in with family members today, where I expect to start progressing again. Just starting to hobble around short distances on crutches. Doctors say in 6 months I should be pretty much back to normal.

So much for western hospitals....

Heal up fast, and don't do this again. This is the first time in my life I made a donation. And, last thing, define "normal" in your case ;-)

Wishing you a speedy recovery Gary!

The hospital care thing in Australia doesnt suprise me at all for some reason Australia has the sketchiest hospital care and even worse the doctors at hospitals that couldnt give a fuck and all they care about is dodging people up and getting people out the door.....and i should note that some doctors are ok but yeh ive had my share of sketchy ones that if i had listened to i would be still fucked and not able to much

Got told by a nurse in her own time that its stupid people like us that get hurt doing this sort of shit and went on to complain about how they fix us up and we just go back out and do it again haha bit of a vendetta there i think but come on how many drug fucked idiots tie up medical services compared to any of us which i tjink is stupider

Normal for me is slacking off for most of the year and then having a bust of activity for just a few weeks.

So most of that should not be a problem but maybe the bursts of activity will have to be less intense. It remains to be seen how well I heal.

My lung leaking air seems healed and so has the hole they put in my side to drain the excess air and fluids. My metatarsal and ribs should be well on the way to healing. The femur is held together by a plate and screws and should be ok to bear full weight on in another 2 months. Pressure is kept off the burst fractures in L2 and L4 of my spine by rods screwed into I think L1, L3 and L5. I will have to wait see how that ends up.

For now I can get up and hobble a few meters on crutches with a lot of effort, but that should get much easier the more I do it.