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So I was on an object yesterday with a new jumper that I have recently met and I came to the realisation that I wasn't mentally prepared to deal with him dying in front of me.
Was wondering if people that have had to deal with that would like to share the way they managed with the situation and how it changed their mindset if at all.

did this jumper have 80 jumps?

No, around 20. The other person's jump numbers doesn't really have anything to do with my thoughts. I don't think

You have to be mentally prepared to deal with the situation in front of you, up to and including death, as it happens, and react appropriately. Note, I say mentally prepared to deal with the situation--keyword, situation.

What I think a lot of people miss is that the situation is not really ever over "on-scene". Regardless of outcome, it's what happens, how you react to it initially, and over time.

All said, I've only met a few jumpers I wouldn't consider up to the task and wouldn't want "in the foxhole" with any of us.

This isn't about my thoughts on his ability, just in general

No worries. I didn't think it was. And it's a good thing it isn't. Because inexperienced or hundreds or thousands of jumps in, your reaction should be the same. It's a life.

Its sad to say but I don't think 60 percent of jumpers are up to it..

And they never even think about it...

Which is sad.

I have been on site for three fatalities (two SKY and one BASE)
plus countless very serious injuries from parachuting and traffic.

The BASE fatality was 2006, Shannon Dean, #100, and this
took place the day before my FBJC. It completely changed
how I looked at BASE, up till then the internet made it look
fun but here I was seeing people crying and freaking out.

I forced myself to continue with my course, did 7 jumps,
then flew home a day early, sold all of my BASE gear, and
posted lots of stupid shit about how risky it was... which I
now regret, within a few months I had bought another rig.

Shannon's death from a legal span over water doing just
a simple, flat and stable solo shook my assumptions and
forced me to weigh the real risks versus the rewards.

Besides death, I think I should also mention other bad
outcomes, I know several men who now have canes or
wheelchairs or lost a foot... living with that every day
is something most able bodied people can NOT even
get close to appreciating without knowing and truly
caring about a person who has been there!

As I walked into BASE, all the informations before, during and after my FJC (which is not compareable to FJCs this time now) included the possibility to see someone really get hurt or going in. including myself.
Having logged more than 1000 Skydives before und about 10 years of jumping out of airplanes that time, it was a natural understanding that this may happen in front of my eyes or to myself.
For me, BASE has never been "it´s all fun and games until someone loses an eye".
No, the reaper is always with you, even in "normal" life.
So if you are not prepared to see or live with any outcome on any single jump, re-think if you want to stay inside.

But don´t get me wrong. Never let your fear of seeing bad things paralyze you.
Accidents happen all the time, all around you.

Be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
It´s an awesome experience where you meet outstanding people. Including yourself.
Believe me, you´re stronger than you think. ;-)
By the way, get yourself a good insurance ...

Edit:
I´ve seen one skydivingfatality at my DZ happen about 100 meters away from my landingpoint. He was on the same load.
And I was on a couple of funerals from my BASE-Friends, one farewell-ceremony is ahead (Uli W.).

I am an Atheist and an Existential Nihilist so my own demise is no concern to me. I want to stay inside there is no doubt in that. I think it was just a realisation that I have never been subject to the messed up stuff that I could have to deal with.
The worst I have had was a car crash I was involved in, a kid died in the other car, I didn't see his body and a friend had to get cut out of the passenger seat, but I was pretty banged up and was rushed away and didn't really see her till after she was out.
I have done 2 FJC's and we talked about this thing in both, but talking about it and understanding is a very different thing

I do not connect this to any religion.
Maybe we open our eyes and there is an old man with white beard, a spaghettimonster, a buzzard-headed egyptian guy, an elephant, all my exes or nothing at all ..
maybe Hobbes knows the answer (see pic)...

but think about all the great evenings with beer and good friends or cool swoops on a smooth downwind lane .. I really would miss that....

I get your take and know where you're coming from, but I'd say that even the ones who haven't really thought about it... In my experience, most people rise to the occasion.

When the shit hits the fan and you consider how much happens in a matter of seconds, the majority--at least of the jumpers I've met and jumped with--put Life above every other aspect of the situation/circumstances and just flat out work as a team to do the right thing.

The exceptions are few, but they're pretty obvious by their immediate reactions and further actions after the fact.

If you're not thinking about the worst outcomes possible on every jump you're going to get the rug pulled out from underneath you one day.

I've watched a lot of people come and go in this sport, some by death others by choice. The most important thing I have learned is to really listen to people. One of the biggest problems in BASE and with people getting into it, is that they've already decided they are going to do it or they THINK they have the ability to do it. You can't tell anyone anything and if they have reached the level of commitment financially to be a BASe jumper then they think they deserve it.

Question yourself, question others, but listen to the answers of others and go with it from there. If you're not "prepared" to watch someone die and you're still BASE jumping you should tell people that. Because when shit hits the fan I'd rather know if I can count on someone or not.

We're in agreement, if we're not word-for-word saying the same thing.

Choose the people you involve in your activities wisely.
Choose the exits you take people to wisely.
Choose the conditions wisely.
Know who you are jumping with cos they might have to save your ass in 3min time...


These are the questions that most people ask themselves after a few years jumping and decide the risk is too much. Fair enough i say. Good observation.

I like to avoid the "whatever happens, happens bro" guys.

When you are Guiding or taking people to places maybe you are not able to put 100% concentration into your jump at the moment...

Come visit again and we talk more

ps. we are never ready to watch our friends die...BSBD

"Choose the people you involve in your activities wisely. "

This is right on the spot. After having witnessed an acquaintance go thru a diving accident and later die (about 2 years ago) in the hospital I have become more picky of who I choose to participate in the sport with. In this particular case the person in question was in poor health (high blood pressure, diabetes, over weight and the list goes on) and not fit for diving but appears to have signed all the waiver as if he was ok and went on diving anyway. He basically had a cardiac event due to a panic attack 100 feet under water in an overhead environment. He put another diver at risk (who had to prematurely surface in an attempt to save him).

The medical condition is just one of the risks that I now look for to flag other jumpers:

1) poor health
2) Inability to function under stress (is the jumper going to be
able to make a tourniquet as I lay unconscious bleeding to death?)
3) emotional immaturity (mainly extreme impatience among them)
4) Poor self-knowledge
5) laziness (do they consider all the options on the table and act accordingly or do they ignore the safest options just because it entails more work and time)
6) not willingness to listen and learn

not necessarily in that order of priority.

I might make an exception or two in a jump here and there but I strive to jump (on a regular basis) with jumpers that fit the above profile to some extent.

I was not "ready" to deal with the above situation but rose-up to it. Thinking back I just acted and had no time to feel anything. Feeling came later on when all "settled". Wife (of the diver) had to be notified and family members; this is harder than you would ever think. None of this is easy and all appears surreal when it is happening and makes you question your implicit assumptions about the risk when waiting in a hospital to see if the other person will live. But again, I am not saying anything new here. I am sure those who have been in the sport long enough have had similar or, more likely, worst stories. All part of the sport.

I try and prepare myself for it, but honestly I don't know if it's something you can really be prepared for.
Hasn't happened to me yet (I only started recently) but I've witnessed a couple of close calls that were quite sobering.

I think perhaps people should discuss more, before the jump, what plans should be in the event of a death.

I worry more about serious injuries - because then there is urgency.
If someone dies, that's shit, but you've got time to try and get your head together. But whether that's at all possible... I guess you don't know until it happens.

I've never witnessed a fatality or had to treat any severe medical injury, so it's hard to say definitively how I would react. What I do know is that I've made a habit of exposing myself to extremely stressful situations, and in those situations all my fear and nervousness takes the backseat to dealing with what is in front of me. I've also become much better in dealing with these situations the more I have exposed myself to them.

As far as the realization that someone might die in front of you, I settled with that right when I started jumping. Every time I jump or watch someone else jump, I have no expectation of anyone living. For me, it's always 50/50. If I'm not okay with dying that day, I don't jump.

I don't like the way you figure your odds, mate. That's less calculated risk and more chance. Just my $0.02.

50/50? Seriously? I should've died a lot of times...

Holy shit the most insane response possible. 50/50?! You're a fucking crazy person who I NEVER want to see on an object with me. I frankly accept RISK of injury and some possibility of a fatality due to my own personal screw up and maybe some crazy ass weather or just blind bad luck.

Somebody will die around you if you jump enough, somebody will get hurt, but to accept or believe that you're not 100% confident of your ability when you're exiting is INSANITY and pathetically dumb.

Drop mic.

I agree. One of his more idiotic statements.

This is the exact kind of bullshit talk that would make me not want to ever jump with you. Either you're just stupid, plain crazy or full of rah rah macho crap :/ seriously dude. Are you a Jeb?

I believe this was an attempt at humor that missed.
I knew a DZO who used to use this same bad joke,
it went something like: you either make it or you
don't, so I guess your chances are fifty - fifty.

FWIW: I have BASE jumped with this guy a few
times and never heard him say anything macho.

100% confidence would be considered insanity by some as well. I'm able to rationalize and statistically analyze my activities and make an honest assessment of how dangerous it is. I've tried to progress slowly in order to minimize my risk, and I haven't done a jump that I thought had a good chance of killing me. It's more of a mental way for me to deal with it, and it factors into some of the responsibility that I think I have given the activities that I partake in. In BASE jumping, you basically have one shot at your parachute working, and it either will work or won't work. That's what's 50/50. It probably seems silly to a lot of people, but if your one and only lifeline fails, that's it. You don't get a restart or a rewind. Personally (I'm not saying anyone else should or needs to do this), I find that I pack slower than most people, I put my gear on slower than most people, and I take more time on the exit point than most people. It's because I'm constantly under the assumption that something is going to kill me (yeah, paranoid, whatever). It's my way of mentally prepping for each jump.

I didn't learn this from someone else, and it's something I primarily started when I began rock climbing in college. I've brought it to many aspects of my life including firearms, driving, and other risk based areas of my life.

If you wan't some heavy reading...

https://en.wikipedia.org/...%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat


For what it's worth, you're welcome to come jump with me.

EDIT: For those who don't want to read my essay, the stuff we do is dangerous, treat it with respect.

It just sounds borderline suicidal when you state "if I'm not ok dying that day, I won't jump". So ipso facto, every time you do decide to jump you're okay with dying? That's kinda how I read that

That makes a lot of sense, and I understand reading it that way. It sounds pretty morbid when you think of it like that. It has more to do with having everything in order when I jump. An example would be having a heated argument with someone. I don't want to go in without settling those kinds of things, and I would feel like I was being irresponsible if I did this stuff without settling them. It's the same reason it's important to have a will.

I had an old instructor tell us about yelling at one of his subordinates one time. The subordinate left and was riding in a vehicle later that day that rolled over into a ravine and he drowned. Obviously he felt pretty bad about it, and he explained that that was the reason he always tried to be nice to people. I never heard him say anything remotely negative to someone, and he was a pretty kind person. The idea was that you never know when someone is going to die, so you should just always try to be good to people. I believe this is the reasoning behind "take care, space".

I didn't mean to go all black, dark, death, rah rah on everyone. But for me it is important to always understand that you have a pretty decent chance of dying. Characterizing it as 50/50 ensures that you aren't going to underestimate it, and that acting appropriately in other areas of your life becomes a lot more important.

I'll back you up on this dude. I don't jump unless I'm at peace with my life up to that moment and the people I share it with. Before I do my count and jump, I make sure I'm 100% comfortable and prepared for the potential consequences of my actions.

That being said, I'm applying all my effort to prevent myself from dying that day. Your wording may have come off a little bit like morbid hyperbole, but nobody will ever catch you underestimating the risk involved in this sport.

I'd jump with you.
Cunts, lacking in empathy and foresight, not so much.

After re-re-reading this, I kind of understand how people got the impression they did. When I say "I have no expectation of anyone living." I don't mean "I expect people to die.". I can understand where that thought comes from though. I'm not expecting anything bad to happen on the loads that I'm on, but bad things have happened, and I hope to always be prepared for that. No jump is without risk, so I treat every jump I do with a baseline level of respect. With anything less, I would feel underprepared.

Edited to add: I wrote my original post having had 12 hours of sleep in the previous 4 days, 0 hours in the previous day, and walking 16 miles with 60 Lbs. of gear. Forgive me if I didn't articulate myself very well.

I dunno dude. maybe it's good to be at peace with yourself before you huck your meat off an object. not that somebody wants/plans to die doing this... but people get ripped all the time here for not appreciating the risk, this is the opposite.

his philosophy is not exactly mine (...anymore), but i can totally see where he is coming from.

but then again this is social media so we should probably all try to feel superior to others and rip on each other

I drove home from a meeting. Took the highway. Gave myself 50/50 to just survive. And then for kicks, another 50/50 on my car being lit on fire.

I'm 2 for 2.

Come on guys. Give him a break. I have jumped with idemallie multiple times. He is a very smart guy (trust me on this one...as a smart engineer myself I can spot smart people). He is one of the coolest dudes and always striving to learn. Just a misunderstanding. Chill

Whatever you do you don't leave a mate behind. In my view, that is the greatest betrayal.

Just be prepared for it but don't assume it will happen. I don't jump with people who I considerate as dangerous. This minimizes the risk to witness a fataltity a bit. But even though, I witnessed a lot of fatalities anyhow, most of them where friends. This sucks as well but I don't know many jumpers who have been in the game for a while who did not witness a fatalitie so far, so you can be almost sure that it will happen some day. So the only solution woud be to never jump with others.

Given my very, very limited experience I would probably do best in keeping quite, but this is the beginners forum after all...

Anyway, I can totally relate to looking at the odds as "50/50". Not that I'd ever get myself even close to a jump where the actual risk of dying was 50%, but by acknowledging that there is an actual risk of dying on any given jump and mentally "exaggerating" that risk I feel I gain a lot of things. It keeps me on my toes, it gives me the motivation I need for that extra re-check and attention to detail and, like idemallie mentioned in the last post, makes sure I'm at peace with at least the ones I hold closest before I go.

This comes so naturally to me I was actually surprised to see the reactions the post got on here.

Like anything else in life: practice makes perfect. After a first dozen, you will deal with it like a pro.