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I'm squarely on the fence. I don't like how it feels with the brake lines through the rings and I was taught to use the LRM for slider down. thaaaat's pretty much all that keeps me using it

I'm most afraid of dropping a toggle after smashing into something...

Also, random side question: LRM vs no LRM on slider down. You pop your toggles and immediately through your hands to the sky. In general would your surge be more or less with LRM vs no LRM?

I use LRM. I think that a brake fire with maintained gear and properly configured, chances are slim of it happening. Plus I like the way it feels!
For the last question, I think it would depend on if you adjusts the length of your control lines after routing through the rings. If you do, I don't think there would be a deference.

Edit- auto correct got me, but too lazy to change spelling. But not too lazy to point it out!!

I think theoretically there would be less surge with the toggles routed through the guide rings if you did the "lazy pop" and let your hands go up immediately. This is because the lines are being pulled through the (assuming it is on but down) slider and the guide rings. Even more so, if the rig were slider OFF but you did the same, with guide rings there is a lower stopping point, whereas I believe your hands could actually go up higher than the guide rings, creating full on slack in the tail of the canopy, increasing (potentially) the amount of surge you could get from the "lazy pop."

you shouldn't surge at all...when you pop your toggles you bring them down to the point where the tail is deflected and then adjust from there.

I cant find video, but there is a guy who jumps from 486 feet and has line over with through ring set up. Removes toggle and clears line over about 10 feet above trees before he crashes in them.

That made it clear to me. If that happens on my local jump you would probably not survive.

Toggle fires are survivable for the most part. Line over to impact is questionable if you survive.

The video you are talking about the guy had a tention knot and released his toggle because he though it was a line over.

Which brings up an interesting point. We have all this discussion about line over when I know FAR more people who have had tension knots than a line over. Who is going to figure out the solution to this?

What do you think of the outlaws brakeline configuration?

Tension knots can still happen, even with the staggered brake line configuration of the Outlaw.

I have outside video of one from last fall, I'll see if I can dig it up.

Dont think there is a single configuration that can completely prevent the issue. Some are definitely better than others. From what Ive seen, the 5th control line on the ACEs and BJs seen to have more of an issue, especially when lightly loaded. I dont have a good solution or explanation, but they sure as hell happen more often than lineovers, and can have a similar bad outcome. For anyone wanting to see a terrifying video, look up Wildman having tension knots on both his main and reserve on a tandem.

Do you know if the people that experienced a tension knot were using a primary locking stow? As i know many people dont use these as they say it provides a pivot point for offheadings(that makes no sense to me). I have had a very convincing case made to me that a locking stow will likely reduce the chance of a tension knot, and happily use it.

I'm in the ring, but in the blue mountains of aussie. Landing without a toggle here is grim, and i feel like its easier to prevent a lineover than blown/dropped toggle.

I have had a tension knot and use a primary stow every time. It was slider up

Are there any recorded cases of blown toggles that were properly set and not bumped? Is there video?

I guess theres always a reason why the toggles blew and that the point. Humans make mistakes and thats what Im trying to guard against. Im not above making a simple packing error or bumping them.

I didn't mean to discount that possibility, which is a real one for any jumper, no matter how experienced. Just looking for any other sources of brake setting failure.

Out of curiosity, the LRM actually increases the risks of a tension knot? Am I reading that right?

Negative!

I have had tension knots on a tandem, not due to
the way the toggles were or were not set correctly,
but more due to worn, Fuzzy, lines + bad packing.

Quality of line and carefulness of stows plus any
sort of reefing and/or taping prevents tension
knots but I doubt toggle stowing preferences
plays any part in that particular malfunction.

Of course I am Hoppy to learn.

edited for spelling error

I was going to say, I would have a really hard time to believe that. Thanks for chiming in.

No. LRM would have zero bearing on the situation as the control line will remain in its usual location throughout deployment. While the use of a Tail Gate or some other form of line-over control (tape etc.) should actually reduce the chance of tension knots.