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Velcro rigs and SL jumps
After seeing pins popping while the jumper is setting up a static line I am considering getting myself a Velcro rig just for SL jumps. Luckily I was there to help (I always carry pull up cords with me). What are your thoughts?

Not saying it is unsafe to jump SL with a pin rig. I have done multiple and had no issue. So long as you have a good procedure in place it is good to go. However, what I am saying is that the velcro (well maintained velcro) rig has lower risk in this instance because it would take more to open it and you would hear it peeling.
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
I think velcro rigs are still moderately popular for SL jumps. One of the reasons is that you can make your own bridle of the lenght which you need (usually shorter)
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
One of my rigs is a velcro rig and I have SLed it often. I actually like the velcro rig because the tearing sound of velcro is reassurance that everything is doing what it is supposed to! On my pin rigs I only feel/hear the pins about 50% of the time! Just my 2 bits! Smile

Another plus is if you have to wear it on the climb up and you get your bridle or flap hung up on the climb you can hear the velcro! Blush
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
e.a.hernandez wrote:
After seeing pins popping while the jumper is setting up a static line I am considering getting myself a Velcro rig just for SL jumps. Luckily I was there to help (I always carry pull up cords with me). What are your thoughts?

Not saying it is unsafe to jump SL with a pin rig. I have done multiple and had no issue. So long as you have a good procedure in place it is good to go. However, what I am saying is that the velcro (well maintained velcro) rig has lower risk in this instance because it would take more to open it and you would hear it peeling.

It really boils down to proper (or better) gear management. Velcro may give you more leeway to manhandle your gear, but the root cause of the problem is the inability to gear up for the jump without causing problems.

I prefer a "soft" fit to my container so my pins are fairly loose. I've popped my pins on objects. I've been with people who have popped theirs. It's generally caused by mishandling your bridle in some way, or not having your rig set up properly for the jump you are making.

If I tighten up my loops to give better pin tension for a SL jump I may be less likely to inadvertently and prematurely pull a pin out. If I am more careful with my bridle routing when gearing up, don't step on my pilot chute, watch my snag points, or handle my gear more gently, I am also less likely to induce self caused gear problems.

There is nothing inherently better (or worse) with a velcro rig vs. a pin rig on a SL jump; you just merely change where you need to put some of your focus.
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Re: [SpeedPhreak]
 Velcro rigs and SL jumps

Ditto
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Re: [SpeedPhreak] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
SpeedPhreak wrote:
There is nothing inherently better (or worse) with a velcro rig vs. a pin rig on a SL jump;

Velcro rigs are not as consistant as pin rigs in pull force to extract canopy.
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Re: [Huck] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
This inconsistency in pull force is irrelevant during a static line jump.
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Re: [Huck] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
"Velcro rigs are not as consistant as pin rigs in pull force to extract canopy"

Be aware that canopy extraction is mainly affected by the net force acting on the canopy to pull it away from the jumper once the container is open i.e. pilot chute pull force minus canopy with container friction minus canopy weight.

The difference in velcro pull force vs pins only affects opening of the container.
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Re: [e.a.hernandez] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
e.a.hernandez wrote:
This inconsistency in pull force is irrelevant during a static line jump.

I guess you might want to rethink that statement?
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Re: [Huck] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
Standard break cord that i use for static line breaks
at 80 lbs. The biggest force i have measured to open a velcro rig is 12 lbs. Assuming you have a few pounds variance with a nominal 8 lbs pull force to open a velcro rig it does not make a difference in a SL jump. The break cord will break at 80 lbs. By the time the briddle experiences 80 lbs or greater the container is already opened and the variance in force of a velcro vs pin is irrelevant. If you are reffering to a low free fall jump this variance plays a bigger role and i would agree with you. But not for a SL jump.
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Re: [Huck] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
Huck wrote:
SpeedPhreak wrote:
There is nothing inherently better (or worse) with a velcro rig vs. a pin rig on a SL jump;

Velcro rigs are not as consistant as pin rigs in pull force to extract canopy.

Can you explain where you get this idea from?
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Re: [idemallie] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
The pull force on a velcro rig can vary massively based on how new the velcro is, whether the velcro is primed (accidentally or intentionally), how clean/symmetrical the packjob is, and the pull direction.

I haven't seen any detailed tests, but there is at least some evidence that these have been a factor in some incidents that a pin rig may have avoided: http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2248776;page=1;mh=-1;;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC
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Re: [gharrop] Velcro rigs and SL jumps
Not at you. But 18lbs was the pullforce in a wcs. (worstcase) this study was done with a new shrivel flap. A sf has about 100 jumps IMHO. Tight rig will be less.
I have never primed my Velcro. I dont see a reason for it. If it is that low,it wont help more than a few feet. I think my lowest was 107ft or 97ft.
One of my students was ff 60ft custom rig that i built.. no primer.
One must see the physics. pull force vs wcs. For the rcord, I have both a pin rig and a Velcro. I prefer the Velcro. I may be stoopid. but this is my way. I have no issues with Terminal Velcro jumps. But that may be due to I am a rigger and will always have my Velcro in order.
Take care, tracy.