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Flying after 3 seconds
I'm flying after 3 second.
This is something I heard this summer quiet a few times by new wingsuit pilots.
Back with my V3 I thought the same and my friend low key wingsuit ninja..said ...but where are you after 3 seconds...
Most definitely flying vertical into the Talus when I think back if I did jump this cliff.
We opened some slider down cliffs and learning rock drops ..even how to throw properly is so important my friend explained.
Is this stuff explained in First jump courses at the moment?
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Re: [niallandrewh] Flying after 3 seconds
If the School is a USBA Member, they are required to use USBA standards. That includes only utilizing USBA licensed BASE instructors The new BIM (BASE Instructor Manual) is very detailed now. Since the new standardized BASE training system has been created, the new manual helps instructors train uniformly across the nation. If you're not in the US, there is an equivalent program in many countries.

.............

No - is the real answer.

Perhaps a little about rock drops but I wouldn't count on it too much. Rock drops are a lesson on whether you can actually do an accurate count. If it's a 4 second rock drop and you're SURE it's a 4 second rock drop, do you know how far that is and how to determine where you'll be opened? Do you have time to turn it around? ....etc...

Or... get a range finder and remove the doubt.

So, if you're using a rock drop, you should already have some idea of how high it is, and whether or not you can react in time because you have learned patience, and created a skill set.

Wingsuiting shouldn't be covered at all because a good wing suit pilot should have acquired the skills before even considering it. You need to be a skydiver with good Wingsuit skills. Then you need to be a good BASE jumper with good BASE skills. Then you at some point, if wingsuiting is in your progression, you'll begin to train toward that goal.

I won't go into what good BASE skills are.

The more sky skills you have, the easier it is to fly parachutes, fly your body, and deal with openings ... etc. Your reactions should be well thought out and practiced.

Hope that helps
Good luck.
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Curriculum
I teach my students object evaluation
using a clipboard, pen, compass, laser
range finder, and binoculars on site
with computer follow up afterwards.

The few times I have used a rock drop
it has been for piece/peace of mind Blush

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Re: [niallandrewh] Flying after 3 seconds
The rate of gaining horizontal speed in the first 2-3 seconds is determined solely by wingloading (weight divided by wingsuit planform area), not by shape of the wingsuit or wing profile (provided the pilot is at optimum ~45 degree angle of attack for starting to fly quickest). This is because at 45 degree AoA the lift coefficient is about maximum and depends very little on the shape of a flying craft (search for NASA paper on wings at high AoA).

In the last few years, the planform area of biggest wingsuits increased by what... maybe 30%? So, for the same pilot, the wingloading decreased by the same 30% and the horizontal acceleration (which is determined solely by lift in the first 2-3 seconds) increased by the same 30%. Not that much.

What actually adds to the perception of starting to fly quick is pressurization. Modern wingsuits have significantly higher internal pressure at the same airspeed, and also significantly larger profile area (the arm wing root profiles are longer and thicker, leg wings are also thicker than years ago). Essentially, you are inside an inflatable mattress that is now bigger, thicker and inflates to higher pressure than before. So the suit presses on your body significantly stronger (multiply these two factors and you'll get much bigger increase than 30%!) and this gives you the perception that you're already flying.

Do an experiment. Set a big floor fan blowing on your body. Tie a thin inflatable sleeping pad, like Thermarest, to your arms and ask a friend to inflate it to certain pressure. Imagine that the force coming from the mattress is the support from the blowing air itself. Now do the same with a thick king size inflatable mattress. You will now feel much much stronger force that you imagine is coming from the blowing air. You'll feel much stronger support from the air while in fact it's only a perception, the support comes from the inside, from a bigger thicker mattress.

So, in the first 2-3 seconds it's mostly this faux perception due to pressurization. But the recovery arc is not a linear thing and in the subsequent seconds the modern suits do cover significantly larger horizontal distances due to lower wingloading, thicker profiles (higher Cl - lift coefficient), and lower Cd - drag coefficient - because the drag contribution from the body is relatively less significant due to bigger wing area.
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Re: [hookitt] Flying after 3 seconds
hookitt wrote:
If the School is a USBA Member, they are required to use USBA standards. That includes only utilizing USBA licensed BASE instructors The new BIM (BASE Instructor Manual) is very detailed now. Since the new standardized BASE training system has been created, the new manual helps instructors train uniformly across the nation. If you're not in the US, there is an equivalent program in many countries.

.............

No - is the real answer.

Perhaps a little about rock drops but I wouldn't count on it too much. Rock drops are a lesson on whether you can actually do an accurate count. If it's a 4 second rock drop and you're SURE it's a 4 second rock drop, do you know how far that is and how to determine where you'll be opened? Do you have time to turn it around? ....etc...

Or... get a range finder and remove the doubt.

So, if you're using a rock drop, you should already have some idea of how high it is, and whether or not you can react in time because you have learned patience, and created a skill set.

Wingsuiting shouldn't be covered at all because a good wing suit pilot should have acquired the skills before even considering it. You need to be a skydiver with good Wingsuit skills. Then you need to be a good BASE jumper with good BASE skills. Then you at some point, if wingsuiting is in your progression, you'll begin to train toward that goal.

I won't go into what good BASE skills are.

The more sky skills you have, the easier it is to fly parachutes, fly your body, and deal with openings ... etc. Your reactions should be well thought out and practiced.

Hope that helps
Good luck.

I would say the most important "universal"("NO") trait would be the discrepancy between "perceived" heigh adjusted to actual tales/relief equation unique to the location and A.D.
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Re: [niallandrewh] Flying after 3 seconds
niallandrewh wrote:
I'm flying after 3 second.
This is something I heard this summer quiet a few times by new wingsuit pilots.


Well isn't that what's expected from you if you want to be an elite bad-ass wingsuit pilot? I suspect many people say this so others will think they are not some shitty newbie pilot but rather an exceptionally elite one, with mad natural skills Tongue
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Re: [hookitt] Flying after 3 seconds
In reply to:
Perhaps a little about rock drops but I wouldn't count on it too much. Rock drops are a lesson on whether you can actually do an accurate count. If it's a 4 second rock drop and you're SURE it's a 4 second rock drop, do you know how far that is and how to determine where you'll be opened? Do you have time to turn it around? ....etc...

Also when it comes to wingsuiting I've talked to a few people lately who've obviously been speaking in terms of rock drop not rock throw. Like "yeah I've been jumping a bunch of 4 second rock drops" when what they mean is there's a tiny fuckin' ledge after 4 seconds that you would literally need to fall off the cliff to be in danger of hitting. Something you clear with the pansiest of two footed hops off the exit. Seriously, who gives a shit about that ledge? What happens when you throw a rock as far out as you can to the stuff you actually have to be flying to avoid?

Show these people something like the cross at Pordoi with a much bigger rock drop but a serious sustained ledge to fly past and they'd shit a brick.