Basejumper.com - archive

As nice as it is for all these companies to pay for our equipment, trips, livelihood, this is not sustainable.

Unfortunately, it is sustainable. It only requires one young new jumper for each fatality. Sponsorship and 15 minutes of fame will generate an endless supply.

What is surprising to me is the amount of people...mostly uneducated...that think that wingsuit proximity and terrain flying are killing the most people. Most fatalities this season have been due to inexperienced people making very poor judgement calls either on exit or in flight...not super technical terrain flying.

I remember a year or two ago, a prominent sponsor cut loose a bunch of pro climbers after they were featured in a film that showed them freesoloing, because the sponsor didn't want to be promoting such a risky sport.

Unfortunately, it is sustainable. It only requires one young new jumper for each fatality. Sponsorship and 15 minutes of fame will generate an endless supply.

nt deaths.
-Young, male, fast progression

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

I knew Johnny well enough to consider him a friend.

He came from a wealthy family, but still had goals of being a "wingsuit professional." That said, chasing sponsors and slots in races was something that he placed a high priority on.

I don't know that any of these things were a factor in his incident. My understanding is that this was, plain and simple, poor judgement. He exited in high winds. It was probably just a case of "oh...it will probably be fine," and not "sponsor XYZ is going to be super impressed by my high wind exits!"

He was a good dude. He took a lot of flack on these boards but face-to-face as nice a guy as they come.

...simple...
being in the activity for few season simply does not feed you with enough experience to judge what is the strong wind and what is the dangerous wind.
If jumper takes time to experience the jump on forgiving cliff in high , strong and dangerous wind , than there is a high chance that on demanding exit he will turn himself 180° and hike down.
In this case that lack of understanding the difference killed the jumper.
Question is why he even came to the point to put him self in to situation like this?!
Answer is simple, isn't it?!

Yup, and walking down is always much harder than jumping. I admit to jumping when I should have walked down in the past. I made mistakes that almost cost me, as I'm sure many others have too. It took me a long time to be mature enough to walk down. At the end of all of this, wingsuit BASE jumping is still just really really dangerous, and if you don't treat it as such, there's a good chance it could kill you someday.

In the mountain environment, I believe its important to take steps that make the "walk down" choice as easy as possible. Planning should always include the hike down.

At the end of all of this, wingsuit BASE jumping is still just really really dangerous, and if you don't treat it as such, there's a good chance it could kill you someday.

“suicidal” launch spot, and jumped to his death, believing till his last breath that he’d pull it off, that he’d make it.

"The One"

Interesting questions, answers, thoughts, and philosophies.

Jesus was in his early 30's when he died on the cross with the belief that he was saving and therefore improving the world. He could have shut up and lived long. Some think that he was an idiot and the whole concept of Christ and faith and dying on the cross does not even exist or make sense.

A matter of opinion.

Others devote their lives to the same belief that led Jesus to that cross.

It was a big sacrifice - made for other people. Some people believe that they do not need anyone to sacrifice for them.

Whether you're a believer, a sinner, an atheist, and agnostic, with some level of thinking you could draw parallels.......

Being the best and helping others improve are noble causes. It drives personal performance and creates a natural flow on affect on improving others.
But at what sacrifice / cost and by what definition is the best? This is really up to the individual to determine. My best and yours may be different. My reasons for being and yours are most certainly different. My understanding and yours are probably different and will depend on many factors.

Much of the discussion here is about what each of us, as individuals, value in life. For some, life itself is the most precious thing and that any risk to it is not worth it. Others are willing to die for what they believe in - achievement, contribution, faith and belief in afterlives or higher beings, our mates, our loved ones, life experiences, underlying psychological needs, belonging, recognition. Yet others have no real concept of what is important, we have not quite worked it out and are feeling our way through life. Making mistakes on the way. Usually little ones that develop our character, values, morals, ethics, experiences, beliefs . . . Others simply make big mistakes, and they end up dead.

Life is just one big risk versus reward equation:

- do I risk belief in God? Will this constrain me, or will this give me freedom. Will others laugh at me or respect my beliefs. Do I care what others think?
- do I risk love. Will I get hurt or will I experience an incredible loving relationship.
- do I risk financial security? Comfort in a lifetime commitment to debt and jobs versus financial freedom or poverty.
- do I risk missing out on sensations, experiences, and feelings by not pursing activities such as travel, adventure, etc.
- does society risk cultural, physical, spiritual, emotional death by preventing individuals and groups in acting, believing, thinking, and existing in different ways? Are many lives saved worth the extinction of life experience?

Really, there is no right and wrong answer.

Just opinions, beliefs, values that each of us individually possess.

The fact that we can discuss these and agree or not is a healthy thing. Imagine if everyone was on the same wavelength and doing the same thing?

What value is there in a life not lived? What does living life really mean?

- - - - - - -

I hate it when people go in, but I am cold to it now as it happens too often.

Yes, following virtually every accident, you can say that the person did something wrong and if they had of changed one thing leading up to their death, they would still be alive. Human error is something we all experience. It's only the process and outcome that varies.

It would be great to have hindsight as foresight.......... or would it?????? Imagine knowing everything that is going to happen. Imagine if everything was predictable and occurred exactly as you expected it???? I shudder at this thought.

- - - - - - -

I have had interesting experiences with BASE jumping and skydiving, particularly with teaching people that have gone on to become well regarded in the sport - a number of which have died. To watch or be a part of the growth of individuals is an amazing thing. I have learned a lot - about them, about the sport, and about myself. And how to judge people and outcomes.

Jimmy Freeman? First jumps, and first wingsuit flights. He always had great ability, and spent a lot of time and effort honing his skills. Although it may appear externally that he went from nothing to doing some amazing stuff, he did LOTS of prep and practice. He was an individual in many respects and most of the time did things for himself. But he also did things to prove to others what he was capable of - we all do that to some extent. Managing the inevitable and variable gap between actual ability and belief in ability was at most times very easy with him, but occassionally hard. I am not surprised that he has passed away jumping, but that is more about the fact that I generally do not get suprised when I hear of another passing.. I am conditioned. I was disappointed when I heard how.

Dwain? First wingsuits and lessons! And planning together all those amazing jumps. Hours and hours of preparation. Thought he would live forever. Not surprised that he didn't. Again, disappointed when I heard how he went in.

Slim? First wingsuits and lessons! There was a man on a mission? Initially thought no, but later thought maybe yes. Growing competition and increasing difficulty of jumps with diminished physical ability. Lots of natural talent, trying to keep up with the Dwains's! With regards to his final jump, to me it was unlucky to some extent, but it was also the final outcome of previous incidents, his physical condition, and his zest for maximising his life experience. If not dying jumping, he would have danced himself to death. He was not going to go out with a whimper.

All three were intelligent, skilled, high achievers coming from fractured family units. All three had something to prove to themselves, and to others.

Adam G? First Jumps. Not confident with him from the start. Sent away to get more experience. Took on early jumps. He did not like the pace I was teaching and sought quicker training - no, experience! Definitely not surprised with outcome, but disappointed again. Although many amazing jumps performed, I believed too much too soon and there was a gap between actual and potential - his thought process was a concern to me. The end result was the focus, not the journey on how to get there.

The point of all this is - the outcome was inevitable, the details may have varied. There are complex underlying psychologies at work here that led to the final result. Trying to understand what each individual did and how may go some way to explaining why they have ended up deceased. New jumpers (and the general public) look at experienced people dying and it scares them or cements their belief that BASE is just dangerous.

Gaining an understanding of the personalities involved and why / what they did helps people understand and may alleviate fears, and assist in others moving on.


etc.

When the margins are skint, the outcomes become more predictable. You either just make it, or you just miss out. There is not much variation between these two levels. High level jumpers often exist in this realm

There is a theme above. It is hard to think that I introduced someone to an activity such as BASE or wingsuits and that they die from it. Not because I introduced them, but because it was very easy in hindsight to say that there last jump was so preventable. But then, they did that last jump because that is who they were. That is what they wanted to do. I was there at the beginning - the impetus or catalyst. But in the end, I was just a number who was there at the right / wrong place and time. Those individuals are who they are, and they made the decisions they made because of who they are.

That is why our paths crossed. Kindred spirits in ways that are hard to describe. The inevitable end would only change in details had the beginning been different.

Yes, dying young of unnatural causes is not nice. Leaving loved ones behind and adding to the negative side of the sports statistics is not nice. I think we can all agree on this.

I think it is important to celebrate the lives of each and every individual. It is also very important to see something for what it is. Jimmy, Dwain, Slim, Adam, etc FUCKED UP. In their deaths, they showed a very obvious but important quality: mortality - they were human, and despite their great skill and potential, they made preventable mistakes. Recognising this is am important process in prolonging other people's lives.

Were their lives wasted by the decision THEY made to perform their final jump???? That is not for you or I to decide. It was their decision. The outcome was not intended and was not desirable for sure.

Were their lives a waste? NO. NEVER. To varying extents, each of these individuals had satisfied needs and wants. We learned from them. We saw what we has humans are capable of. The skills they learned have been passed on to many people both within and external to our sport. Some examples are:
- better aerial recovery techniques for unstable jumpers.
- equipment and technique improvements.
- a growing pool of knowledge and experience about what is possible and not, what level of risk is involved in performing certain activities.
- many people have been motivated to vary their life experience due to these individuals and to open their minds to new possibilities. New careers, travel, taking up new hobbies and activities that they excel at, etc.
- building confidence and self esteem.
- planning, risk assessment, organisational, teamwork skills, etc.
- the highs and lows of new relationships.

The list could be endless.

Can't believe you read this far!

Could someone please clarify what the precise wind conditions were?

Was there a downdraft or updraft at the exit point?

Did he impact directly below the exit or on his way to try and outfly the talus?

Did he impact while trying to turn the first corner along the ridge line on the path to the steep terrain segment?

Was this a case of a poor wingsuit exit or would even the fastest start have resulted in death?

It would be informative and educational to know if anyone has answers.

So if I'm reading this correctly the winds were 6.5 mph at the landing area, with gusts up to 18.75 mph?

(Converted to mph for those of us who use the freedom system.)

Any idea what kind of multiple you can usually apply here to estimate winds up top? Twice as high? Three times?

In any case...I think high winds is an accurate assessment. I was told he was flipped on exit, before he began flying, and hit trying to recover from an unstable body position. Not verified, just what was told to me.

Yes, Sputnik is also in a Föhn region. The Föhn can be very powerful on top of Hinterrugg as well.
But there the hike is very short so it's not that much of a problem to hike back. On the other hand, after a 2 to 3 hour hike to get to Gitschen, it really makes sence to check for Föhn before you start the hike.