Basejumper.com - archive

I ordered a Helium a while ago, with it to fit a 280 blackjack. Container came, looks awesome. Got a 265 troll instead, but should measure to 280 when using the same standard as CR uses. Noticed it was super easy to pack and close, which was good. Pin tension was very low, which I thought was also pretty good. Not doing super technical jumps yet with lots of climbing, so having a pin pop was not a concern.
Jumped my first A, handheld. I couldn't feel anything coming off of my back during deployment which scared the shit out of me. I believe this was due to low pin tension and loose container fit.
Talked to a couple of more experienced guys, consensus is that a larger canopy will solve it. Container is marked to fit a 285, which is around 300 in non-atair measurements.
I like the larger canopy idea, but until then, is there anything I can do to increase pin tension to help me feel the deployment? Closing loops are stock, 3/4", cant go any smaller.

leave the closing loop length the way it is. on top of your packjob, every time you jump fill it with dirty undies/socks, any clothing that you dont care about losing on opening. goodwill has plenty of old t-shirts you can use to get that extra pack volume in your container.

Ahh. It appears i have asked a stupid question. But the old clothes suggestion is a logical suggestion. Ill give it a go.

Na Kathy fucked up again as they continue to build containers for the wrong size parachutes. My advise shop elsewhere. This is going on as years of reduculous.

Thats what it looks like.
Guess I could use the floor plate for the top loop and roll the ears at the bottom to get a little more tension.

^this
i ordered my helium for a 265, and of course, i got a container sized for a 285. luckily, it ended up working out because i am a fat beer drinking slob, so buying an OSP 285 was a good choice especially for our nice little washington landing zones.
kathy fucks up alot on the orders. =(

My Gargoyle is also on the looser side. I don't have a lot of experience with other rigs, but it seems more like a design characteristic than having "fucked up again". Maybe I'm wrong about that though and they build too small containers sometimes? Personally, I like it. I have heard Squirrel builds their rigs to fit more loosely as well.

I don't feel that a tightly held canopy prevents shifting any more than loosely held one, although that's just my opinion and I don't have any solid evidence for that. On the contrary, I think trying to jam your canopy into a tight pack tray during the closing sequence can cause off-headings, and I have seen evidence for that.

My container is marked as fitting a larger canopy, so theres not really any unknown shit going on there. It was made larger than the order specified.
You like it loose, cool. I like it tighter. I like to feel when my junk is being ripped from my back. My pin tension is so low that my pins will spin or turn 90 degrees during transit to the exit. Very low.

Too Little --- rig can open prematurely
Too Much --- rig can hesitate or not open

Tension can be affected by sizing, packing,
length of closing loops, and by how the rig
fits the jumper, how it is worn, clothing, etc.

Think of a rig with perfect pin tension then
put it on a jumper who is: really too big for
the harness, is wearing thick clothes, and
or way over-tightens the three straps....
all of the above would increase tension.

I have bought 3 brand new rigs from Morpheus over the past 7 years:

-Gargoyle sized for a 240 Blackjack (fit canopy perfectly) DOM 7/2007
-Helium Sized for a 240 ACE (fit canopy perfectly) DOM 7/2009
-Razor Sized for a 245 Trango (fit canopy perfectly) 7/2012

All I told her was exactly what canopy I intended to use in the rig, and there were no questions, concerns, or anything.
Maybe I am just biased, with my pleasant experiences.
I still own all of these rigs, and they all still fit the canopies perfectly.

The closing loops on my gargoyle are 3/4" I think.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I ordered mine to fit a BlackJack 260. On the label it says "260-265", which, to me, reads that it's designed for a 260-280 (the 265 being the Atair 280 equivalent). Since BlackJacks have valves (what you originally ordered it for) there it accommodates a higher pack volume than for an unvented canopy. I imagine Kathy thought it would be better to make it on the loose side of a 280 (for your container), rather than the tight side. And if your Troll 265 doesn't have valves (Troll MDV), that would contribute to it sitting looser in the pack tray. This is why canopy square footage is not a 100% indicator of pack volume. If it was designed to fit a particular size of BlackJack, that does not mean it will fit a Troll (especially an unvented one) of the same PIA square footage.

I'm not trying to say you did anything wrong in all of this. I'm just speculating on the way they build rigs at Morpheus so people develop a better understanding of their design process.


That's not good. I think rolling the ears, as you said, is a good strategy. You could also try to tack spacer foam into the pack tray, which is admittedly less than ideal. If you do this, I would avoid sewing to the part of the harness that runs inside the container. Also, consider yourself a test jumper.

EDIT: The 265 order being a 285 container is pretty questionable though. Obviously there was a mistake there.

Or heck, just wear a spine protector? That should be enough to tighten up that pin tension. Can't hurt to be safer anyway...

I would suggest jamming a little more carefuller.

Lol, that's why I like to use velcro. It takes all the carefullerness out of it.

Sell it and buy a Velcro rig. Canopy size doesn't matter when you're talking about a few extra or a few less square feet.

Didnt use the floor plate but rolled the ears. Got a little more tension. Jumped it this morning, could feel a little more this time. Think I'm going to get a back protector and see what that feels like. Don't think more protection is a bad idea anyway.
Thanks for the info.

You can also pack looser.

I borrowed a rig recently where my normal packjob resulted in zero pin tension. Doing it again without smoothing down any folds and without putting body weight on the canopy at any stage including closing the container helped a lot.

Velcro is my Fav. I take it terminal. I have to flake it twice in my pack job. otherwise the V flap creaks when i roll my shoulders forward.
IMHO, if the container is sized properly, Super flaking on a humid day rocks. on humid days I can get away with a single flake.
Maintain the Velcro. I can rigging sew so i just replace the flap around 100 jumps and use a temp 2" velcro strip for containering.
Containering is the art of packing to fill the container for it to function properly. no matter whether pin or Velcro IMHO. Maybe try the omega fold.
take care,
space

When you say flake it twice, you mean you flake the top skin, flake the bottom skin, flake the top skin again, and then flake bottom skin again?


What is the omega fold?

top flake, bottom flake. omega fold? look at the symbol of omega.
i try to explain.
you stack a fold on top of the TP. then fold the ears for pack tension.
take care,
space.

What about sewing some sort of padding into the pack tray?

If you get a back protector that has shoulder pads (which I recommend you don't) you'll probably wanna cut those off... they inhibit movement pretty good. And they make you effectively taller in the harness.

Washing your container will make it smaller.