Basejumper.com - archive

Hello guys
Please I need your opinion here.
I need to buy a new canopy and I am trying to decide what is good between standard fabric F111 and ultralight .

Some jumpers believe that ultralight it is just for jumps that involve clean landing area and for a main usage of high pull jumps because there is less possibilities to ruin the canopy (as it is more fragile), while others say that it is as good as the F111 just lighter.

Any experiences with these fabric ?

I was looking between a Apex LOBO or FLICK , where flick will come with F111 and LOBO with ultralight material... Really an hard decision :)

Thanks

I agree that the ultralight is better or environments with less landing hazards (or more set up time) because of the fragility of the fabric.

However, if you choice is between Lobo and Flik, I'd go with the Lobo every time. It's just hands down a better canopy than the Flik.

I have 600+ jumps on the FLiK, a couple hundred jumps on the Flik UL and 47 on my Lobo. If I had to choose one, it would be the Lobo, however, I talked to Todd and he is coming out with a new FLiK so you may want to talk to him about that. As far as durability, I take really good care of my gear and never had a problem with the UL fabric. The Lobo is a bad ass canopy but takes a little more dialing in when landing in super tight landing areas.

I will write to Todd about this for sure, but just for curiosity, the "new FLICK" would be new in design or will adopt some solution now on LOBO? ( pocket tail modified, profile).

To be honest what is concerning me a bit , a part from the fabric resistance , are the three vents only.
Looking at the standard gears used here in Europe , normally the indications are :

1. LOW jumps ( 40/90 mts) : 4/5 vents
2. Hazard environments: F111
3. Ultralight mainly mainly for high pull out

:) it is really really a hard decision....
but thanks to you and also to you Tom for the inputs, I really appreciate them a lot :)

Bruno

I have about 700 jumps on an UL Flik and Lobo with 3/7 venting.
The first 1000 were on standard F-111 Fliks with 4/7 venting.

I wouldn't worry about the vent configuration. In fact, I prefer the 3/7 after jumping the canopies for a few years. I haven't had a chance to jump an UL canopy with 4/7 venting but I like the idea of the center cell being vented.

One thing I have noticed about the UL canopies is that they open hard slider off... or maybe I am just getting old. Either way, they perform well on low stuff. In fact, if you are planning on freefalling low, I would recommend whatever you get to be UL. A lighter weight canopy means that the PC has less work to do and can extract the canopy to line stretch more quickly. I have a lot more confidence in UL vs F-111 when I am freefalling below 200'.

For deep slider off delays on the UL Flik, I started playing with PC size and additional reefing to reduce opening shock. It seemed to help but I didn't get enough jumps to conclusively say one way or the other and it isn't something I would recommend to newer jumpers.

As far as the material strength, it is a lot tougher than anyone initially expected. It wears well. My UL Flik has almost 500 jumps on it with most of those being in Arizona and Moab. It still flares and flies well. It does seem to be a bit less resistant to tears, although not nearly enough to keep me from jumping it everywhere.

I have managed to put a few small holes and a 3" tear in the Lobo though, but nothing more than I would expect on any canopy. This winter, I spent a lot of time looking for alternate landing areas at Camelback... most of these LZs were smaller than 3 ft diameter and surrounded by cactus and spiked, devil bushes. It has been landed in some of the gnarliest bushes, rocks, and debris out there and has only had only taken minimal damage. It gave me a lot of additional confidence in the strength of this material

Now with that being said, these were situations where the canopy landed in the bush after I had landed. My body weight was never suspended under the canopy when it made contact. I don't know how the material would hold up in the event of a strike other in-flight collision.

For me, the weight, comfort, and performance advantages of UL far outweigh standard F-111. Either way you go, the best way to make any canopy last is to fly it like a ninja and take care of it.

The only thing that could do mine in was a downwinder into a tree at the end of an LZ. That snag would have taken any canopy though. Branch broke close to the tree with a knife point at the end basically and shredded a couple cells. Other than that it was surprisingly tough. I had to drag it across jagged rocks in the water and it came away unscathed. The tail of my canopy got caught in a mess of lines, legs, and feet and the only thing I noticed was slight line burn.

Hello Matt
Thanks a lot for the valuable information .. As mentioned in Europe looks like the UL is more for clean exits, slider ups , and easy landing area ... but this doesn't mean it has to be a rule and more all of you confirm that LOBO and UL is a good choice for any jump, any height , and any environment .. of course always having in mind to have a good care about the canopy .

@all: Guys thanks to all of you , great forum , great interactions
Cheers