Basejumper.com - archive

 

Is there going to be a registration fee or is it now free?

Getting my popcorn. Back in 5 minutes.

Still going to Twin.

http://www.basejumper.com/...post=2979969#2979969



I see... so you VOLUNTEER as a consultant the first year to get your foot in the door and not really lie about submitting a proposal to organize, then the next year you'll be in position to conveniently take it over. I gotcha! I guess it's a good financial move on your part. I mean 6 hours of $1000 a pop tandem BASE with no real jumpers getting in the way is going to bring you some coin I'm sure.


Their goal is not the same as ours... they are in it for making money, we are not. If the Chamber of Commerce is all for promoting BASE jumping then why didn't they pick up the tab years ago? Why are they just now 'stepping up'?

 

I'll see you all at the Perrine in October.

see you at perrine. =)

Going to Twin

Twin Falls for me.

What about a climbing wall and scaffolded facade? You could get your BASE number from one object! What a joke.

Further proof that the base community was negotiating from a position of strength. Pity that someone just gave that negotiating advantage away so cheaply.

I for one will not attend.
I am encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

Idaho for me as well.

 

^ That. Good on Tree. I'm going to Twin because I'm cheap and want to annoy the fuck out of all you idiots.

 
Really Jump a 24ft antenna off the edge of a bridge?

I hope as a group we have a little more pride than that...

I never attended bridge day because its a circus... Now it has clowns too !

Well done! Thank you for your hard work in getting the finger scan requirement rescinded. That was what the boycott was about and now that we got what we wanted I'm in for Bridge Day 2015!

The antenna sounds like fun too. Oh but that will make me a clown with no pride hahaha. Fuck it I'll do it anyway

Questions for Mark:

1) If the fingerprinting is in fact gone, then what will it be replaced with? Need details.
2) If the BDC voted twice for fingerprinting, what made them vote today to nix it?
3) A traditional "for profit" BASE organizer has been replaced with a volunteer BASE organizer. Doesn't this mean the BASE community now has much LESS power than before? Note that I have been pushing for MORE representation - for example, to have a voting BASE representative on the BD Commission.
4) Since you're an unpaid volunteer, will the 500-700 hours of work required each year by the BASE organizer be too much of a burden?
5) Will registration go through the Bridge Day Commission's website, since they told me long ago the next BASE organizer will be required to do this?
6) If yes to #5, what information will jumpers need to hand over to the BD Commission? Address, credit card numbers, jump info, etc? I never gave them ANY information other than the required one-time name/DOB/SSN.
7) Of the nearly 3000 jumpers who registered with my company to jump at Bridge Day 2002-2014, there are many who prefer to keep their participation hidden from their employer. Most of them have sensitive jobs that frown upon any parachuting activities. These include law enforcement, military, and even park rangers. How will these people be protected if their entire jumping history, email address, and other information will be viewed by someone other than you?

Comments:

1) In January 2015, I was asked by the head of the BD Commission if I'd come back and organize in 2015 if the fingerprinting went away. I told them "maybe", but they would need to take over some of the more problematic areas such as the NPS permit, insurance, and reduce the $15/jumper fee I had to pay to the BD Commission. The following week, the entire BD Commission voted for the fingerprinting once again. I guess this is where you began talking to them.
2) I doubt no one wants a bunch of local Fayetteville volunteers helping at registration or on the bridge.
3) The antenna and walk the plank idea will consume too much time.
4) To answer another person's question, my human catapult will not be at Bridge Day 2015.
5) Mark wrote "The Fayette Chamber is a friend of BASE in every way that the Twin Falls Chamber has been". I couldn't disagree more.
6) By agreeing to help the BD Commission in a volunteer position, it appears you've now given the BD Commission the power they have been craving for years. I remember past conversations with them where they discussed taking over the online jumper registration, the jumper website, T-shirts, and other items.

It's great that the fingerprinting may be gone. The thanks for this goes entirely to all the jumpers who emailed, wrote letters, and made phone calls to the BD Commission. But it appears the power and independence the BASE community had is now greatly reduced.

I went to dinner with a fellow jumper and we had some different and some similar opinions on the matter... We both agree you got the shaft and that sucks the most.

I honestly believe you deserve a lot of respect for falling on the sward. They pushed you, and you held firm. I think they thought "well maybe if we hold firm Jason will eventually give in." Because you gave them the proverbial finger, they had to get rid of real fingerprinting to get jumpers to come.

So basically - what you did worked this year to get rid of the finger printing... But that was never really the big issue was it... It was the concept behind it, specifically being treated like criminals by the NPS and state police.

I do 100% appreciate that security on a high profile event attended by such a crowd is a concern (think Boston Marathon bomber, movie theater shooter, etc)... So I appreciate the need for security as the security also protects us as much as "Joe Public" standing next to us. And this new policy seems like a reasonable solution (as would have been having x-ray machines for our rigs and any other non-inspectable closed containers that were allowed on the bridge).

But, I know from employment background checks, third party companies charge us at least $10, but often $75 to do a multi-state criminal history check depending on the client's needs. Who is going to pay for that? Are the local businesses having to pay their chamber of commerce dues to pay for these checks, or will this be passed on to the jumpers?

But what really pisses me off the most is - it sounds like from your post they did not come back and offer you first right of refusal or thank you for your work and dedication. Not the Bridge Day folks, nor the new organizer... They owe you respect for hard work, and maybe an apology. We jumpers do 100% owe you a thank you as you stood firm and lost a personal battle to perhaps help the bigger war by not giving in. But did we win the war? Will the police still treat us like shit?

That being said... If I go to a bridge in 2015, it will be slightly more West than West Virginia... However, in the long run the event wins as the general public does not care if 10 or 50 jumpers jump or 400... They will still see the "jumps" - so I predict that there will be no noticeable change to the general public. They will still see the animals in the zoo. Hopefully all the animals live. (and can swim if no rescue boats are paid for.)

"Thanks to the hard work of the chamber of commerce and local jumpers, the requirement for finger scans is gone. Technically they are optional, but to me that means there wont be any. "

what are you assuming there buddy? optional on whose decision? they create this gray area and when a jumper gets there they are trapped, they want to jump so they will give up their damn finger and get logged into a registry...

No optional fingerprinting at TF? they are friendly year round? no tandem instructor hoping to make bank on a civil rights issue?

Twin it is thank you! I'm really disappointed in any BASE jumper that takes advantage of the boycott to get an extra jump in or to make an extra buck. we can build a 5' antenna on the Perrine or we can go jump an antenna...Congrats on your deal, enjoy being eyed as a criminal during your stay.

I need a little help here. The way this looks to me is that Treejumps is a scab trying to keep his tandem money flowing in, and the BD commission wanted Jason Bell gone for standing up to them and finding a more pliable puppet. Undoubtedly after the clamor wears down and they don't lose their money making event, they'll tighten the screws on us in other incremental ways. Does that seem right? Please give me another scenario that fits. Otherwise why would they not just cave on the fingerprint scans and ask Jason to continue as before? I won't attend another one that Jason is not a part of, or isn't run by someone who is more loyal to basejumpers than their own thirty pieces of silver.

I agree 100%.
I'm still going to twin. The BDC needs to give us more to change my mind.
and it would have to be Jason organizing or someone of equal stature.

 

 

No they were just the last straw.

After somebody other than you organised a unified jumper response that couldn't be ignored.
Edit: Of course it's not going to be that hard when you were the only person agreeing to anything.

Finger scans are not a concern of mine. I asked to stop being treated like a criminal. I doubt you have been able to change their mentality on this.

You are correct and I believe you are relying on their naivete to push forward with this event against the common opinion of the community as a whole.

Unfortunately your words lack any value and I am reluctant to believe a thing that you say.

I don't trust your motivation here. I don't like the way you backdoored Jason and the community. I think you are (intentionally-unintentionally) preventing the boycott from having its full potential effect. I see this as a bandaid fix simply to get jumpers to BD 2015. I think your hasty work at re-vamping BD is going to be an abortion. I will not be attending. I doubt I will go to Twin either but I definitely won't be supporting your bullshit.

Well said

So naive. So clueless as to how things really work on the BD Commission. And your answers are too vague. Describe the details of the background check. What information will be collected by the 3rd party? Will this information be shared with anyone else?

You get zero credit for "saving" Bridge Day. Protesting jumpers get all the credit, if there is really any to be had. Too bad you gave in so quickly......now the official Bridge Day BASE Coordinator is essentially the Chamber of Commerce and not a real jumper. You gave them what they wanted all along.

Glad to see BASE now has some representation on the BD Commission. I pushed that for YEARS. However, if that advisory position doesn't have an actual vote, it's worthless. Will BASE have a vote on the BD Commission?

You say the chamber is not the commission. And that's where the water gets muddy. The head of the BD Commission is also the same person who runs the chamber.

You have to understand the 13 year history of police abuse and lack of support for the BASE community by the BD Commission and chamber in order to understand why my recent diplomacy wasn't up to your standards. Once the BD Commission voted twice to continue fingerprinting, I knew I was done. I also knew what they were doing was wrong and it needed to be done away with. Jumpers have been treated so poorly in recent years that I felt we owed the BD Commission nothing. I kept my mouth shut for 13 years in order to keep things running smoothly. A man can only take so much. The BD Commmission and chamber needed to change their ways and support us more. We were like a battered wife, coming back year after year for more abuse just to make a few hours of jumps. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything so far that indicates this has changed.

I don't think you understood my point about jumper privacy. When the cops, insurance investigators, the media, jumper's family members, and others come knocking on the door for information on who is registered for Bridge Day 2015, will you be able to protect their privacy? I doubt you will because registration is going through the Chamber now. Keep in mind that I was routinely contacted by these groups, and many other entities, each and every year.

Ultimately, it sounds like jumpers have lost more than they've gained. Jumpers will now be registering with the Chamber (or BD Commission, same thing) and the Chamber will be doing onsite registration now. That's not progress.

Looks like it's free if you let them scan your fingerprints, but the 3rd party background check will cost each jumper. I wonder how much?

http://www.wtrf.com/...to-fingerprint-scans

The boycott was not just for finger scans going away. This is not even a victory. Nothing has changed. You say you are all about keeping the tradition. What about the tradition of standing next to your brothers and sisters?

You have single handily destroyed the entire principle for boycotting BD. The fees, the background checks, the harassment, the private information sharing, the six hours, the BDC, the lies, the sell outs, the ideological thinking of the NPS, the WVSP, and the local PD's?

The whole point of the boycott is to move forward, not move along. There has been nothing accomplished by your desire to be traditional. Being traditional is just that. Nothing has changed for the better of legal BASE in WV.

TWIN FALLS IT IS!

The BASE jumper boycott of Bridge Day had one well-defined, well-articulated and achievable goal: to rescind the finger scan requirement to jump. Earlier in this thread Jason said that he was asked by the Bridge Day Commission in January if he'd still organize Bridge Day if the finger print requirement was rescinded. He said maybe then gave the Commission a list of other financial and logistical demands: "the NPS permit, insurance, and reduce the $15/jumper fee I had to pay to the BD Commission." When the Bridge Day Commission again voted to keep the finger scan requirement Jason quit. He listed the Bridge Day assets for sale and said he was out. If you take that at face value that means no one was working with the Commission to salvage Bridge Day in 2015 OR subsequent years. No one was negotiating with them. No one was working toward a compromise. You can't "backdoor" someone who isn't there.

Mark took up the cause of the boycott: to rescind the finger printing requirement, and now the requirement is gone. Not only that but the BASE jumpers now have an advisory seat on the Commission. Not only that but the Chamber is going to pick up many of the costs that the jumpers themselves used to cover. The groundwork for all this was laid by Jason and a huge contribution was made by anyone who was a vocal proponent of the boycott. But when Jason quit, someone else had to step up and help push the ball across the line or we would have lost all the momentum we had. Now the boycott has achieved its goal. Was this a good compromise, or could we have gotten more than what we were asking for if Bridge Day 2015 had no BASE jumpers and it was a flop? First of all, with Jason out, there was no one to push for that. Second, that's a big maybe. Maybe the crowd would be happy enough with a skydiving demo. Maybe Red Bull or someone else would drop a ton of cash and have its athletes do all the jumping. Maybe thousands of people would come to enjoy the festival and scenery and not really miss the jumping all that much. Since we got what we asked for there is no reason to take those risks. Bridge Day will go on as a legal event for new and experienced BASE jumpers as it has from the beginning.

There are still questions to be answered: who will conduct the background check, what's involved in it, what will it cost, who is going to pay for it, what will happen with the data collected, what will happen to information submitted to register, what will it cost to jump, what agreements are in place to ensure that finger scanning doesn't become mandatory. I say ask away. With more information and more transparency about what's going on behind the scenes we can make a more informed decision about whether to jump.

Mark is a friend of mine and I know him well enough to say that his motive in keeping Bridge Day going is not financial. He makes enough money and is plenty busy doing his regular job. In fact anyone who has a job and a family wouldn't touch Bridge Day with a 10 foot pole if their only motivation was to make money. It can't be lucrative enough to spend the countless hours necessary to make it happen.

Apparently, $12-$35 (http://www.register-herald.com/...d8a59e.html?mode=jqm).

WOW they are looking for terrorist, gang bangers, gang members, felons......

"Police would have to pull additional data from national criminal databases following the scan, in order to discover whether someone had committed a crime, according to statements made Wednesday."

"After local law enforcement officials expressed concerns that a private company may not provide all of the data that would be provided by a scan, Cruikshank added a caveat to the motion that the background check will only be offered if the private companies can provide criminal information from national databases"

Guilty until proven innocent

LMAO !!!! for basejumping....... I wish they would do this at concerts, monster truck rallys, nascar...

Why do they want our prints so fucking badly? why do they want to do these back ground checks on us, they arent checking our BASE jumping credentials, they are checking our damn financial status and sharing these prints with other national agencies. Do you not think your record isnt with the NPS in Yosemite, Zion, or Badlands after this event? They want data on citizens and we are a group of citizens they deem to be criminals.

Tree, if the new jumpers and people attending the event in october in west virginia then you are doing an even worse service to the community. Anyone who attends should be told about how fucked the situation is and how the vast majority of the community is up in arms about it. They should know, and you should tell them when the register with you. Tell them about the Perrine Bridge Day.

 

"Regardless, I'm not sure what your exact intentions are. I am, based on your actions, 100% sure they are not completely as you choose to portray them publicly."

Disco. +1. +100. +1000.

Why would anybody jump at Bridge Day ever again? To an earlier point, nobody is fingerprinted/background-checked at concerts, rodeos, air shows, museums, MARATHONS, etc. Why does this event pose such a large risk?

Anyone who is willing to be on a list to BASE jump a few times isn't really a BASE jumper. They have nothing to lose from being on a list because they never climb towers, pick locks, or run from rangers. They skydive twice a month and go to WV once a year to have their annual stunt session.

Fuck Bridge Day. Honestly. The same good time can be had in Twin Falls.

"But we can go to Twin Falls any day of the year and WV is only open for one day..."

NO SHIT.

That is exactly why you should go to Twin. Because they support us EVERY DAY. West Virginia USES US for their own benefit. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

They need us more than we need them.

I'll see everyone in Twin. Have fun at your skydive boogie Tree.

Mark (a.k.a. Tree, i.e. the original poster) has kept being diplomatic and tenacious with the BD commission, as far as I can tell, while some BASE jumpers appeared to have abandoned the BD all together. He did make a change. The BD commission reconsidered more than a few things because of Mark.

For that reason, I am with Mark on this issue.

I may be in for BD2015 now.

Yes it sucks only getting 6 hours of jumping in. Yes it sucks how many of the people view jumpers, but I think the twin falls event and backtracking on the fingerprint scans are a start.

I think incrimental resistance from our side is good. I don't think everyone blowing up and saying fuck WV bridge day is the best way to go about it. Some people are jaded and tired of dealing with the BS, which is totally understandable. I think having a bridge day in CA and at twin falls in conjunction with a concerted, professional/calm and constant push by jumpers to get more relaxed restrictions for WV BD will eventually go somewhere.

It would be a good start if we could get them to add an hour or two to the jumping window. It isn't much, but it's going to have to be incrimental.

I think at this point it's ridiculous for anyone to have animosity for jumpers attending WV BD and all the hate towards tree. You can and should disagree, but people are far too emotional and take everything too seriously. WV BD won't stop just because noone steps up to organize or 95% of jumpers don't attend. If I do attend BD2015 in WV, I hope to have some signs or something to show my discontent with the way it's being held. I shouldn't thank my lucky stars for getting 6 hours out of the year and being judged or harassed by the local and state authorities. But I'm not giving up. The boycott and the outcry of the jumpers worked. I want to keep it up, not give it up.

I'm guessing you're referring to me calling the state police "bullies"? Well, that's because they are indeed bullies. They will find a way to get up in your face and cause you pain every Bridge Day morning if you don't kiss their butt. The world is full of those who keep their mouth shut, but a few of us have the balls to speak the truth. I finally said what everyone was thinking all along, and I'm willing to bet the state police will change as a result.

Does your anger have anything to do with me firing you in 2012? You were my Bridge Day tandem BASE coordinator at the time and you repeatedly snuck non-waivered tandems past my exit staff two years in a row. And you lied to my team. I had to ask your tandems to sign my waiver after the event was over. I could have been sued and lost everything over this, had they been injured. You were selfish and not a team player. Hopefully you've changed.

Repeating my prediction. No way the coppers will be denied using their finger scanning toy. Jumpers are going to get scanned on the bridge, and and any pre clearance promise isn't going to prevent it. That said at this point I believe if you go to BD 2015 you deserve what you get. Have fun.

In order for BD 15 to work they needed an experienced basejumper to run the event. I'm curious Tree, did they find you, or did you sidle up to them? This is a huge event and a lot of West Virginia pride goes with it. If the event was boycotted it would have had a huge impact with a lot of political pressure to treat the trained monkeys of the show better. There was never a chance it would have died entirely, so anything you say about saving Bridge Day is a fart in the wind. I am thoroughly disgusted that by the actions of one quisling our attempt to improve the well being of our brothers and sisters might be for naught. Anyone know what kind of person Tree is? His actions make him look like and opportunistic asshat, but maybe he's just stupid and self-centered. And if anyone says that he's making a sacrifice for the good of our sport I will show up and puke on your shoe.

My concept of a boycott against the BDC fingerprinting plan was for them to come to us, not the other way around. The very definition of boycott supports this:

Boycott
(verb)
1. withdraw from commercial or social relations with
(a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.

In related news, I just received an email from a jumper reminding me of a conversation we had a few months ago. I guess many of saw this coming:

On Jan 26, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Jason Bell <JBell@VertXXXVisiXXX.com> wrote:

XXXXX,

Thought you should know.........Mark Kissner (username "treejumps") who posted that he supports Bridge Day and the finger scans actually DID have an interest in organizing BD in the past. He put in a proposal to organize the BASE portion of BD back in 2002 and eventually lost his bid to GoFast Sports (who I later helped [at their request] with the event that year). Then I officially organized from 2003-2014.

So......yes, he's likely testing the water to see if there is enough jumper interest to move forward as the organizer. Just my guess.

 

Since you just called me a liar:

From: Mark Kissner <mark@tandembase.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:37:58 -0400
Subject: Re: BD2012 - Tandem Problem
To: Jason Bell <JBell@verticalxisions.com>
Cc: Vertical Visions staff member, Vertical Visions staff member, Vertical Visions staff member

Hey Jason,

I think that the there is no simple answer, but, even though Lucy went to
the mandatory Friday meeting she somehow managed to not get registered due
to the miscommunication of when to go to the front desk at 9AM/PM. Then
there was the last, last minute sale (Amber), which since you are not
mentioning in your e-mail I am going to assume must have gotten registered
and badged late Friday night. I'm not sure that anyone was really punching
tandem jumpers, just Tandem jump masters. I I will say that the staff was
much more militant about their duties this year than ever. If there is
anyone to blame for Lucy jumping without your waiver being signed, then
blame me. When she called hysterically from the hotel Sat. morning, my only
thought was that she had attended the mandatory 5:00 meeting, signed our
waiver, and that we needed to get her jumped. I should have gone
immediately to you after that call to tell you about it, which would have
solved the situation because you would have had a waiver for her to sign
out on the bridge just like I had a waiver for Amber to sign, even though
we agreed that the primary problem last year related specifically to doing
waivers on the bridge. (which is why we agreed that this year the 5:00
meeting was mandatory and that we would take no one who could not make it
on friday).


From: Vertical Visions staff member
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:45:18 -0400
To: Vertical Visions staff member
Cc: Jason Bell<JBell@verticalxisions.com>; Vertical Visions staff member; Mark Kissner<mark@tandembase.com>
Subject: Re: BD2012 - Tandem Problem

We need to get Tree and the TIs involved. Who was the TI for the jump in question?

The only Tandem I scanned was a male student with Jordan as the TI and Tree was with them. I scanned Jordans badge and asked for the students badge. Jordan said I didnt need to do that. I explained I did and it was a big issue. This is when Tree came over and started arguing with me. I explained the situation to Tree and said Badge = Waiver. He kept pushing Jordan and the male student through the line and assured me that the waiver was signed and the badge was under the students clothing and harness.

[Note: This was the tandem that had no badge or Vertical Visions waiver]

--------------

Bottom line: You lied to my staff and snuck non-waivered tandems through my line. One of these tandems didn't even have an ID badge! You were well aware that this tandem had never signed my waiver or registered with me onsite and you knew they can't jump without credentials. Why am I mentioning this? Because I couldn't trust you in 2011 and 2012, and jumpers shouldn't trust you in 2015.

Now, I know you're fixated on how I treated the state cops during the last three months, but I was already done with the event when I began enlightening them. I had nothing to lose and the cops needed to hear the truth. So get over it.

If them dropping the finger scanning means you will now go to BD2015 then you are a bad negotiator.

The finger scans being "...optional..." sounds very suspicious to me. It is pretty clear to me that they want our prints.

Even without the finger scans the new situation still sounds worse than last year. I trust Jason, i don't trust the police/BDC/NPS.
I think it's important for the base community to stick together. This is a rare opportunity for our community to make real progress. There's only one way to find out how much we can gain and it's to stand our ground.

I'll be in twin falls.

I have lost all confidence in Bridge Day. It saddens me, but I wont be going.

Said it before, and Ill say it again...suck it Tree.

Till the east coast figures their shit out, we'll continue to have legal BASE jumping out here.

Jason, your awesome...and I respect your actions last year a great deal

 

 

In 2002, I was asked to help Go Fast Sports organize Bridge Day. I set up a website (www.bridgeday.info), webstore, assembled an exit point team, attended BD meetings, and handed each and every jumper registration. In the following 12 years, I was voted numerous times to the position of Bridge Day BASE jumping coordinator by the Bridge Day Commission. Each year, things got better and the event was fair and efficient. I strived to return each and every phone call or email in a timely manner and make sure every jumper had the information needed to jump at the event. I likely made a few Bridge Day Commission members nervous when I stuck my neck out and proposed things like a human catapult system, tandem BASE jumping, the diving board, vans for jumper family members to the LZ, an elevated jumper ramp system, Canopies for Kids (teddy bears that we jumped and donated to kids with cancer), late arrivals (ID badges mailed to jumpers who can't make it until Saturday), and many other items. Communication with the BD Commission was excellent during those 13 years and our relationship with the NPS and the former head of the BD Commission couldn't have been better. It only changed when fingerprinting became their goal.

Running Bridge Day BASE Jumping is (was) a business that requires you to do what is right for the entire BASE community (not necessarily what is right for you). If you look at it any other way, you'll get chewed up and spit out rather quickly. When your staff and tandem coordinator fail to follow directions two years in row by not performing critical ID badge checks that could result in you getting sued, then trust me, you'll understand my reaction.

You may not agree with my approach to certain situations, however, my 13 year record proves that my team did many things right. I can only hope that you are able to do the same or better.

Alan called you out, looks like he was spot on! This shit is better than a soap opera! My gripe is this, I was stoked to see the BASE jumping community rally to boycott! But I feel you should have approached the jumping community first with your intentions to see if you could get majority support instead of taking it upon yourself to jump in and basically speak on behalf of all of those, that wrote letters and made their gripes known. You did not have my permission to do so and for that reason alone I will not attend. Jason approached the BASE community and we responded, you acted like a rogue Parent who thinks he knows what's best for his kids. WHO NOMINATED YOU KING? Keep that attendance record up buddy! TOOL

Who else is willing to step in? Tree stated in earlier posts that he wants to hand this over. Is there someone willing to step in? Should a poll / election be held here on the forums to decide who has the rite to be the voice of this community? Someone needs to be the "front man", Tree just stood up and did it, this all seems like stuff that should have been decided on long ago and wasn't, that's to the fault of everyone here. I can't sit here and throw stones at Tree for stepping up when he's doing more than I offered to do, but I can accept some of the blame for not offering up an alternative.

1: Is Tree willing to hand this over?
2: Is anyone else willing to take Trees place?
3: Can we have some sort of election / poll for this?

It seems there needs to be more organization for this community to be happy, plain and simple. First and foremost, if BD in WV is going to be a jumper event then we need a representative for the community, If this is a BDC / WV state event that we are merely invited to attend then our voice makes no difference, it is their event, their rules, Tree is their guy, and if we don't like it we can go elsewhere (seems to be whats happened).

Whats happened in the past is in the past, slinging stones inst going to change the fact that Tree is the go to person for the BDC at this point to organize the event, either we live in the shadow of mistakes and personal grudges from the past or we move forward and make the best of the situation, offer up your ideas and what you want to see at bridge day, and let your BASE community representative fight to get it. Tree has stated he will be glad to step down in earlier posts and is in the process of trying to hand things over to a local jumper, please, if you think you have something to offer, speak up and volunteer for that responsibility.

Tree, if you want to do rite by the community then do rite, it's as simple as that.

Grasshopper,

The loosely ORGANIZED plan of the masses was to not go to BD15. To let the police state and BD commission suffer for trying to force us into fingerprints. Tree came out and said he was going anyway. In a sense sabotaging what was generally agreed upon, to Boycott BD. There was no one needed to step up and take over, a PLAN was set into action, not to attend.

Will there be a video? Haha

Should local businesses that support the jumpers be punished in 2015 though? On one hand I agree with you that the BDC needs to get what they have coming, but on the other hand, they tried to push and we showed them that we as a community will band together when they get out of line. The BDC has caved on the fingerprint requirement (insert "last min" theory here), as a community our requests and opinions will hold much more weight as a result of our intent to boycott. It seems that we in fact got what we wanted, our voices and opinions to matter, it seems that now is the time to lay out all of the things we want on the table and see just how much we can change for the better. By abandoning the idea of 2015 all together we would hurt the local economy, more in subsequent years than this year most likely. Many of you (myself included) are committed to Twin Falls at this point, but people will still show up and jump at NRG this year. I'm trying really hard to look at the positives in this and hope for the best outcome at this point.

NRG will have a bridge day that includes jumpers, the fact that there may only be 25 - 50 wont make a difference to the spectators, it will only shorten the wait time for jumpers. This "saves" the event from a tourism / local revenue standpoint and ensures tourists will return in following years.

BDC is willing to listen to us and take our requests seriously, this is the first step in seeing more of the changes we wanted to see. Negotiation is ongoing and give / take, I'de rather see someone working with BDC than everyone turn their backs on BD entirely. I would rather have the option to jump this bridge legally again at some point than force them to replace us with carnival rides on the bridge for the day.

We didn't get permanently replaced by a handful of Red Bull guys on contract, leaving the opportunity for normal job having idiots like myself to jump an otherwise hard to get away with bridge in the future.

Whats done is done, and at the end of the day I don't think a majority of people want to see BD in WV go up in flames permanently, by walking away entirely as "punishment" we run the risk of forcing them to replace us permanently, they need a reliable game plan for an event this size and if we can't supply that then we must be replaced, reliability always trumps quality when it comes to events and promoting. They met us on our fingerprint term, now it's time to press the other issues.

The Charleston Gazette called me again, and I spent some time chatting with them. They are curious to know the reaction of BASE jumpers following the recent updates.

I shared with them the following, which has been my position all along:

1. BASE jumpers are not generally pre-disposed to acts of terrorism.
2. Paying participants in community events are not normally treated as criminals who must clear their good names before participating. I cited examples of other events where participants are not required to submit to finger printing and/or background checks.
3. Asking BASE jumpers to be fingerprinted or pay for their own background checks therefore has no basis in reasonable/logical risk management.
4. The behavior of the BDC and WVSP is security theater, and nothing more.
5. I will not be attending, as I can jump elsewhere where I will not have to prove my status as a non-terrorist beforehand.
6. Thank you to the people of Fayetteville for having welcomed me in the past.

~ Chris

They called me also. I basically said:

I was glad the fingerprint scan was being removed,
but still need to hear more about the details before
I could say I am interested in attending the event.

Why do people keep saying that the finger printing has been removed. Optional isn't removed. It is still very clearly present. No demands have been met here.

First of all i'm not bashing you tree. I think we as a community should stick together. I'm voicing my opinion because i feel that having jumpers at BD2015 under the current circumstances would be a mistake. If we were able to gain freedoms on NPS land it would mean a lot to me and i'm sure other jumpers as well. I don't want to be a criminal. We shouldn't squander this opportunity.

Here are the reasons why i think they might retain fingerprints even though they say they won't:
- This post by Jason: I wonder where they got this information?
- In this article: My memory isn't the greatest, but i'm pretty sure when I filled out the background check I read something saying they wouldn't retain this information?
- Our government's ever expanding illegal/unconstitutional behavior since 9/11.

I don't know if your question was directed at me specifically, but for the record my demands have not been met.
My demands are:
- No background checks whatsoever.
- If there is registration and it isn't free none of the money should go to the NPS or for bullshit insurance. I'm willing to pay the boats, buses, ambulance, and organizer if the chamber of commerce doesn't.
- The event should be lengthened... a lot. 6 hours is stupid. 7 hours is stupid. It should be a week at least. Of course legal jumping at any time is the ultimate goal which i think would be best for the city as well.

On another subject, i think that there are better options for first time jumpers than BD. A first time jumper will learn much more making a trip to the perrine than at BD primarily because of the small window to get a few hurried jumps in at BD (if weather permits). At the perrine you can make a bunch of free jumps at your leisure when the weather is good with a better LZ (if you want to stay dry). Also the cops are cool there.

The young lady who called identified herself then asked,
"Are you aware that the finger-print scan requirement
to attend Bridge Day has been cancelled?"

So instead of calling her a liar I honestly replied,
"Yes, I read something about that online..."

I know Jason, Tree, Sean, Alan, Gregor, etc. I have
jumped with all of them and glad to be friends with
most of them, and right now I am not sure what to
think, hence I did not want to weigh in strongly.

For me personally, I am fine skipping BD2015, I've
been seven times, 3 or 4 more jumps from that S
are not a big deal, and the 1500 miles of driving
makes the fun party/reunion rather expensive.

I did tell the reporter that registration is usually
June 1st for an event in October so a little early
to decide, but I am following the discussion.

That antenna is by far, the most laughable thing I have ever heard. Should make an office cubicle next to it and get a dump truck to drop a rock on the bridge too.

Im wonder what Rick Harrison would say about qualifying that for base.....

Or better yet What would CARL say ?

I think we are losing an opportunity for national attention about base jumper discrimination

Change the ability to get a permit like every other activity and then maybe its a win.... OPTIONAL fingerprints and background checks are unacceptable IMHO

I would like to say that Carl would be rather upset over all of us. BASE jumping is about having fun. This isn't fun anymore. I didn't get into this sport to make friends. I certainly didn't get into this sport to make enemies or spit friendships. If you asked me ten years ago if I thought I would be so passionate about BASE jumping, I would've said no, but I am. I know I've said some things out of anger and I know a lot of other people on here have too. The point I'm making is a difficult point to make. Bridge Day to most of you guys is just a chance to burn off some altitude, for most of you guys it's a great reunion. I willing to venture that most of you also never went to Bridge Day before you were BASE jumping. I know Marcus lives there and Jason lives close enough, there are others I'm sure. I worked in Fayette'nam for several years as a river guide, a climbing guide, and a self proclaimed explorer. Pre 9-11 I would venture out in the catwalk with a slingshot and spend hours emptying my pockets of rocks trying to hit the small bridge. I even took a driver up there and broke it on my first swing. That was inspired by a story I read from John Long about climbers on top of El Cap spire hitting golf balls into the valley below. The point is, I love that bridge and would love to see legal jumping there and all of this fighting and name calling, the lies and accusations aren't going to help and I know the truth needs to be known, or does it even matter now? The reason I want "The Other Bridge Day" to work so bad is because I believe that if we can accomplish the generous donations, behave, clean up as we go, benefit Twin Falls and make a positive statement, we can take that "model" to West Virginia and present that to the "people" of Fayetteville and let them know that "it works". Then we might have a good chance at getting the ball rolling. Members of the BDC read these forums, I know they do. They read facebook also, and when they see the community devided or fighting over a cause they see opinions. Plain and simple, opinions. If we don't stay together and work together on the Bridge Day issues, then we lose the power of numbers. I may not agree whole heartedly with what Tree did, but he did what he did and some people don't see a problem with it. If you stand back and look at the big picture, in Tree's World, Tree is trying to make things better for Bridge Day. Isn't that what we all want? Yes, but there are many many ways to do it or there could just be one way? We don't know, if we did, everything would be fixed.

Many people now say that since the finger scans are going away, why not return to BDWV? I told you why above. We need to make, create, an example. Remember the Workd is watching, maybe Auburn is watching to see what happens in Twin before they say come to our town. You never know who will be watching this because there are a multitude of people following these forums and Facebook.

Someone mentioned why not let the first time jumpers go to BDWV and the rest of us come to Twin Falls. This has its pros and cons. The biggest con is it goes against the boycott. How ever, listening to some of the locals in Twin, do we really want a bunch of first time jumpers showing up? Injured jumpers getting evacuated from the valley might not look good for our 'model'. Yet, you can get PCA'd from the Perrine and not have the rush of the timeline bearing down on you. I felt rushed on my first BASE jump at BD06. I remember right before I thought was going to pass out that I had to hurry, there was a long line and people are watching, then I asked myself "What am I doing?" Then I jumped. Point is I felt rushed. Maybe Tree can come up with a plan to accommodate the time limit? Who knows? One thing is for sure, BDWV has the ambulances on hand, which might be more appealing to new jumpers.

So here is thought. Let's support any new jumper that wants to go to BDWV. I think it would show that we are NOT devided and that we can still make a point and stick together as a family. I know down deep inside that I do not want to see someone get injured badly or killed over an argument about Bridge Day.

I guarantee you that if the repellers boycotted, the BDC wouldn't be trying to replace them, or hold special meetings, there wouldn't be a big deal made out of this. We all know, and the BDC, and the local Chamber seem to be beginning to embrace the BASE jumping at BD. If they didn't, things would not be changing as we speak. I can also tell you that they won't be embracing us if we are fighting amongst each other.

I'm going to Twin Falls because I want change, if we had legal jumping year round then going to Bridge Day wouldn't be any different than having a boogie at your local DZ.

My goal is for legal BASE in WV, what happens at BD happens. What happens in Twin Falls determines our future for legal BASE, not just in WV, but anywhere else.

Has no one else gotten this? Tree keeps saying the finger scans are gone but they aren't they're optional. That doesn't fix anything. How many new jumpers or jumpers who don't know about the boycott are going to use them? That might not be a big deal but what about 2-3 years down the line with jumpers having the option, which might I add is free, and the BDC points out to everyone that half the participants are using it and it's easier for them. They'll just pull the option entirely and make it required because that's what half the jumpers are using anyway. So I will not be go by to Bridge Day because we have not won anything yet.

just 2 quick questions:

1. wasn't the purpose of the boycott to stand up as a family, and show the commission and the rangers that we refuse to be treated as criminals? i thought the finger scan was the straw that broke the camels back. i was under the impression that the intent was not to simply "remove finger scans", but to say fuck you to those who treat this community like shit.

2. if jumpers are required to submit to a background check, what about the other hundreds of thousands of spectators that roam the bridge freely? couldn't any one of them be a potential threat to security?

looks like instead of unifying as a whole for at least this year, something broke heavily, and since i dont know tree, i dont know exactly what his intentions are, but i have a strong feeling in my gut that the motivation wasnt to simply "save bridge day" and make it more awesome than before.

personally i think this whole boycott has been rendered useless, and ill see you guys in twin for sure. thanks for "saving" something thats not worth saving this year.

As a West Virginian (and a local to the Fayetteville area) I feel I am supposed to be on the side of the BDC and Tree to be at BDWV this year, but as a BASE jumper (even though I'm new[ish] to the sport) I am obligated and willingly choosing to go to Twin. I feel as if Tree has went behind the back of every jumper that has worked to make this change an almost possible reality and then completely undermined it with his "help".

I don't expect you guys to take my words heavily as I am relatively new to this sport, but I am just as passionate about it as anyone else. If there is anything that I can do in the local area of Fayetteville, Beckley, Charleston, you guys let me know. I want to help the base community out and would also like to see something positive come from us going to Twin this year.

The finger scans are still in place and the traditional background check will apparently cost jumpers extra money this year. Unfortunately, they still have jumpers by the balls since the finger scans are mandatory if you register within two weeks of the event (which was always a very busy registration time period for me). Many jumpers just don't know if they can attend until the event is a few weeks away.

I keep reading things about the $99 registration fee I charged being reduced. But what you won't hear is why. My suggestion to the head of the BD Commission in January 2015 to take over the NPS permit ($2500), insurance ($2000+), etc. appears to have made sense. This adds up to a substantial amount of money, especially since the BD Commission expanded this to include the boats ($3500), ID badges ($1000+), T-shirts ($3000+), etc. If the $10/jumper fee that I paid to the BD Commission is also gone, that's another $4000 savings. The registration will be cheaper this year when the BD Commission is paying some of the larger bills that I use to pay. However, a 2015 registration price reduction will NOT be the result of the evil "for profit" model used for the last 35 years. Remember, you get what you pay for. Volunteers rarely work as hard as those who get paid to serve you.

And the jump order will now be determined by who gets in line first on Bridge Day morning? This method was utilized in the 1990's. Anyone who remembers those days will likely be disappointed in the change. If the line will form at the Keller/Rt. 19 intersection, note that the State Police have been trying to reduce the lines that form in this area.

Money talks. Our boycott, which consisted of far more issues than the fingerprinting, had a 100% chance of success if given time. Now, we have less power with a volunteer BASE consultant rather than a BASE jumping coordinator.

Well put Goinin... simply stated - BD wasn't "saved" as Tree states, but rather the effort of the BASE community as a whole was UNDERMINED.

...and because of this, I believe it's hurt the credibility of BASE jumpers as a community in the public's eye.

I don't think there was a reason to "save" BD BASE at all. A successfully boycotted 2015 WOULD have led to changes for the better AND tightened the bond of the BASE community as well.

This boycott was an opportunity to really unite the BASE community and give us new credibility in the world's view.

... this wasn't simply about getting the scans rescinded. This was about empowering the BASE community and bringing our credibility to a whole new level.

Spot-on with the frog-in-boiling-water comment! Looking forward to seeing The Community in Twin this year!

 

Local Fayetteville volunteers are different than jumper volunteers, who get a free jump pass as an incentive to work hard. I just don't think you're able to understand the message I'm trying to convey. You keep deflecting. Not sure if you've ever organized an event before, but it appears you're in for a wild ride.

Your revenues are off in some areas. You forgot a few expenses: website, webstore, rental vehicles, 6 kegs of beer, 120 pizzas, hotel rooms, 3G internet, cell phones, exit point intrastructure, rental Budget truck, gasoline, storage unit for infrastructure and catapult, computers, misc. equipment, waterproof pouches, staff labor fees, Holiday Lodge conference room rental, etc.

If you'd taken the opportunity to present your "volunteer" plan to jumpers before crossing the picket line, things would likely have turned out much better for you.

Good thing someone stepped up to sell us out. I doubt I will make twin falls and defiantly not going to BD2015. I thought we as a group was going to stand up against finger scans, not that they would even be an option. Would have been nice to proceed with the boycott to get more leverage with the possibility of jumping NRG all year. I guess it don't take having a backbone,dignity or self respect to be a BASE jumper anymore.

FINALLY!! Exactly! That, right there! the fingerprints could have been a catalyst used to get us a better deal. Flying to Charleston sucks, always a 4hr layover in Charlotte, rental car, and the Holiday Lodge smelled like a sumo wrestler shit on a burning tire this year!! A chance at real progress blown by this....

So Tree wants to prance in on his white horse and "SAVE" BD? Get real! You totally ignore the BASE community, go behind everyone's back, sneak in a stupid deal with the BDC and we are suppose to be thankful for your "Input?" Somebody sure has a high opinion of themselves. Clearly not shared by too many on this forum. This is Amerikka, Anybody is allowed to be as stupid and clueless as they want. Gonna entertaining to watch this Douchenozzle get what he's asking for. Hope you make a lot of new friends. Yer gonna need them......

Tell ya what Bonebrain, why don't you and the Douchnozzle do something that's actually productive for a change. If you are Soooo concerned about the vendors and businesses in WV, then contact all of them, show what the alphabet police state has done every year since this started and then ask them if THEY would continue coming to this event. Those that say yes are your and Tree's new bestest buddies and the rest of the normal thinking folks can come side with the rest of us for some REAL changes. October will be here before ya know it, better get busy.........

Tree, I tried to keep an open mind and give you the benefit of the doubt. But when I see multiple posts that attack Jason, especially ones extremely biased against his "for profit" organization, even I feel upset.

Pot calling kettle? I don't believe you or the other Tandem Instructors worked for free... I don't think Jason made over 25% after expenses for his work, what % did you make?

Jason worked hard. He probably made some nice money, but I would gladly pay for someone who provides consistent reliable results... I know from competitive skydiving organizers that volunteers coming and going every year that nothing is consistent or trustworthy and the quality of the events suffer.

Example, I emailed Jason maybe 8 years ago "Say, I like clamps when packing, but jumping with them sucks. How about having communal ones"? He e-mailed back and said "good idea, next year". 8 years later the packing area is full of free to use clamps, and I knew I did not need any because I knew Jason is consistent... Also I gave feedback about some busses and Jason implemented a change and it worked. I think he had to spend $$$ for that too.

Without someone who has a budget and someone who does it yearly, these little perks and benefits will be lost.

Don't attack Jason for making money, it makes you look dirty. In multiple posts you have used "For Profit" as If it made Jason dirty. No, instead Jason worked hard for us, and while you were busy hucking tandems for profit before and during the event, Jason was making sure we all could jump with countless hours into it. For profit simply means we put food on Jason's table so he could spend the time working for us for many years, not just the organizer of the year....

At the end of the day you're stuck with Tree in WV, at least for now. I dont know which one of my posts you read that made you think I support BD in WV this year, but I'm thinking you should re read it before you start with the childish name calling. Grow up and learn the difference between making the most of a less than ideal situation and liking the situation, just because I point out some positives to Tree being in WV this year doesn't mean I don't see the negatives. Seems like the majority of people on here can only see the negatives.

Clearly you are having a difficult time comprehending this situation. Or maybe it's me (and everyone else), what exactly is your position? Are you in favor of a Boycott of the current conditions or are you in favor of Tree undermining that effort and doing what he is doing? Yer being called out here for your own actions. In the grown up world, you take a position and stand by it. Flip flopping is only making you look like more of a flake

I'm in favor of the boycott, and until the time limit is on jumping is gone I have no interest in attending WV what so ever. An event in Twin, run by jumpers, for jumpers, in a state that likes jumpers should by nature be a much better time than a state event that simply invites jumpers for revenue and at the same time doesn't seem to respect these same jumpers or their wishes. That being said, I'm not going to sling mud at Tree on the forums either. Tree stepped up and despite it being something that wasn't widely accepted, he is now the one dealing with the BDC and representing jumpers at that event. If trying to look at the positives in it makes me a flake in you or anyone elses eyes then so be it, but from a business standpoint, you're not going to get anywhere with negotiations when you walk into the room with a hostile negative attitude, which is all anyone who is keeping tabs on this thread is going to see. We are guests at an event in WV, our host has treated us like shit, and for that reason I'll stand with everyone at Twin. I don't wish WV any ill will, it's their event, they are welcome to run it as they see fit. If any jumpers here feel like they are welcome in WV, good for you, I seriously hope you have a great weekend.

The problem here is Tree "stepping up". Seems not 1 person (besides you) thinks thats OK. He did this all on his own, disregarding anyone and everyone else that didn't want that to happen. The negative hostile attitude you speak of has been brought to the table by the folks on the other side of the desk. Everyone (again, except you) see this and instead of being a sheeple, are (finally) standing up and saying enough. Undermining that effort. through Tree's actions is the wrong way to go about the change necessary. Staying united is vital to making a significant change. That's how it's always been done in the business world that i live in

United we stand divided we beg

I don't agree with the way everything went down, but what's done is done and all there is left is to move forward. I hope things go awesome in TF this year and WV learns something from what happens on the west coast, hopefully BD in WV undergoes a complete mindset change and it becomes a place we are excited to return to. Personally, I don't feel like any freedoms are being violated here or ever had been, it's their party, their rules, I don't like the rules I just wont go to their party. We should be focusing on making TF the biggest and best BASE event the world has ever seen, but if someone wants to have an event in WV on the same day let em, I'm not hating.

Bridge Day has a special place in my heart. I have had countless great times there. I've volunteered on exit point staff for the past ten years gear checking thousands of rigs and spending hours helping put together and take apart the exit point. I've also spent hours of my own time preparing dozens of people to make their first jump at Bridge Day and never charged a penny. I've done jumps there with friends that for one reason or another I'll never get to jump with again. I've partied with awesome people from all over the world from all walks of life who share a common passion.

I was very disappointed to think that there wouldn't be a Bridge Day 2015 but I thought the boycott was important. The mistrust and mistreatment by the police to the jumpers had gotten worse and worse over the years and like most people say, I felt the finger scanning requirement was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was heartening to see the jumping community join together to fight back.

The boycott would have been much more well-conceived if its goals were well defined, well-articulated and achievable from the onset. It's obvious from reading this thread that they never were. Some people (like me) thought it was all about rescinding the finger scan requirement. For Jason, we found out only just a few days ago in this thread that the boycott was also being used as leverage to get the Commission to pick up more of the expenses and logistical work. For others the goals were something more intangible like "I want the police to stop thinking I’m a criminal." Others had more pie in the sky expectations like no background checks whatsoever or legal jumping all year. Honestly, the intangible and pie in the sky goals were never achievable and to think otherwise is naive.

The boycott also would have had a better chance of succeeding if it had an active leader and spokesperson. Things would have been different if Jason has said something like "the Commission voted again to keep the finger scans but I'm going to keep fighting for the following goals: x, y and z and I won't give up until we get them. But he didn't. He quit.

Let's look at the reality of the boycott. There never was one clear list of achievable goals. We had a de facto leader in Jason in the beginning but a few months into the boycott he quit and listed all the Bridge Day assets for sale. I don't blame him or hold any grudge against him for doing so. I probably would have burned out a lot earlier than he did. But what we were left with was no clear goals, no leadership, no dialog with the Commission, just a lot of hostility. Some jumpers were even saying they would never come back. That's not a powerful negotiating position. In fact it's a very weak one. If no one had stepped up there is a very real chance that the boycott would have backfired and Bridge Day would NEVER again be an opportunity for non-professional jumpers to jump legally at NRG.

Let's also look at the reality of the situation were in now. Finger scans are no longer required. Bridge Day is going to be less expensive because the Commission is going to pick up a lot of the cost. The jumpers have an advisory seat on the Commission. That is compromise. That is two opposing parties meeting each other in the middle. Furthermore we have reopened the dialog between the jumpers and the Commission and the relationship between the parties has shifted from adversarial to collegial. That is progress and that opens the door for further advances such as longer jumping hours and other days to jump.

You may want to insinuate that I'm not a "real" BASE jumper because I want to jump at Bridge Day this year. It doesn't really hurt my feelings very much. I've done the dirty low free falls. I've felt the euphoria the second my feet touch the ground and I look back at the object I was just atop a few seconds ago. I've done the long car rides, the long hikes and the long climbs. I've been to the ERs and the funerals. I've carried injured buddies away from objects. I've had a few heart stopping close calls with the law and the planet and laughed about it over a beer afterward. If you feel like choosing Perrine over NRG this year makes you more of a "real" BASE jumper, then good for you. Personally I think legally jumping either bridge during the day has little to do with "real" base jumping.

Tree has taken a pretty good beating in this thread but at the end of the day his friends are still his friends. His enemies are still his enemies and the people who don't know him still don't know him. I've seen it many times before. People can be loud obnoxious and insulting to someone they don't know in a web forum but when they meet in person their tone is way different.

And one more thing; I think climbing a 20 foot antenna on top of a Bridge is a little bit silly but the visual of looking out over a huge crowd from 20 feet up will be awesome. The catapult was a little bit silly too but super fun. It's ok to be silly to have fun sometimes.

Looks like the BDC found the perfect incompetent sellout. You should put a 10ft tall building on the bridge, ohh and maybe a big pile of SHIT too, that counts as an E right? That way you can charge people ridiculous amounts of money for their # along with your stupid tandems.

theirs gotta be an electrical shack on a bridge somewhere that can count as my B, if theirs a shadow on it can i call it a night jump too?

You're a fool. You jumped head first into waters you know absolutely nothing about, and it shows here.

Nobody knows more about this event than Jason. He should be your best friend, because he's the only chance you've got to make this shit storm work. But, best I can tell, that's one of many bridges you've left burned here.

Good luck in WV, you'll seriously need it. I'll be in Twin.

I never "quit" fighting for the fingerprinting plan to away, regardless of whether or not I decided to continue as organizer. I communicated with the head of the Bridge Day Commission regularly and as recently as two weeks ago.

As a BASE jumper, getting fingerprinted wasn't an option for me. As an organizer and businessman, running Bridge Day 2015 wasn't a viable option either as very few jumpers, if any, would actually show up under this year under those conditions. It costs me money every month for a webstore, websites, and storage fees for Bridge Day event assets. This is why I decided to sell company assets in late January as there was really no hope of Bridge Day 2015 being successful.

I think the BASE community had a clear and concise plan in place for a boycott, with supporting documentation available on the Bridge Day jumper website for months now. We discussed the details here on the forums quite a bit. The main focus of the boycott was always the removal of fingerprinting with a move toward the use of bomb-sniffing dogs instead of background checks. I mentioned this several times on the forums, on my website, and in communication with the BDC. Other smaller areas of focus included state police bullying and, in recent months, the removal of certain costs such as NPS permits and insurance. All along, any discussions of the fingerprinting requirement removal could and would have included these other requests.

To say we never had a clear plan is pure BS and it only appears to justify the new organizer's actions. If Mark had come to the BASE community with his plan before "saving us", we could have all made sure our goals were clear.

This is the key point. This could have gone over so, so much better:

Hypothetical-Tree-who-isn't-a-shithead: "I'd like to save Bridge Day you guys. What are our 'need-to-have' items, and what are our 'like-to-have' items? I will fight for all, but please expect me to compromise with them in some areas to make this work."

Jumpers: "Okay! Here is what we would like to see."

Hypothetical-Tree-who-isn't-a-shithead: "Thank you for your input. As a fellow BASE jumper, the views of the community I'm trying to support are important to me."

See how simple that would have been? It would have been less typing than his stupid announcement about how he f*cked up this whole thing.

amen. this ............
its unfortunate.

my one concern.
its obvious that we as base jumpers do stupid shit. tree fucked up. we have issues behaving.
I REALLY hope that we can behave ourselves in twin this year. honestly, anyone who knows/jumps with me knows i am a good person, but i feed off of base jumper energy and i like to party fuckin hard.
i just hope we can not do anything to over the top and stupid in twin falls this year, i think its more important than EVER to set a good example for the town and not fuck up too bad.

no burning cars, barfights, and for gods sake, LAY OFF TRANNY HOOKERS AND BLOW FOR ONE WEEKEND!

Good counsel but it begs the question:

How exactly do you know that there are tranny hookers in Twin??


44

I dont feel well represented in West Virginia right now. I feel like my "representative" has not fully understood what is at stake here. Tree, can you take a step back and see whats going on here?

I understand we all want to get along and for there to be BASE jumping in WV this year but at what expense? A divided community? Can you not take a step back and let this brew for another year? Do I need to be glared at like my parachute will destroy America as I walk on a bridge?

If you give these soldiers the equipment that makes it look like we are criminals getting a day off to go jump from a bridge then they will see us like we just got out of the local prison. If we remove their toy finger print scanners, increase the amount of time we can jump *how freaking absurd,* and show that when treated like humans we are human then they will see us for who we are. There morning briefing should sound more like a festival than a terrorist threat.

Take a step back Tree and come to Twin Falls. Help the community make Twin Falls even more spectacular this year.

Lol, thats the last place the money grubbing weasel would want to be...

When it comes down to it, is Tree going to stand up for the jumpers like Jason did time after time?

But he can have fun doing some fun BASE jumps with the rest of the COMMUNITY, why wouldn't he want to come!!!

Because he'd miss out on his attendance record and would have competition for tandems, his main reasons for being "the savior of bridge day." Dont worry youre def in the books now, the quisling of tHe BASE community.

Have you ever been to Twin Falls? It doesn't sound like it. I highly recommend you check it out it's a beautiful thing. Why wouldn't this model work in WV and CA?

Jason quit what? It's not over yet. I thought his actions were absolutely perfect. He called the BDC's bluff by selling the BD assets and showing that he was serious. Our words that we wouldn't show up did not sway the BDC from voting for the finger scan twice so he took the next logical step. He said he might reconsider organizing BD if the finger scan was rescinded. It's called negotiation and it seemed to have been in the process of working... until Tree showed up. I haven't talked to Jason about this however so maybe he has other intentions. I still think Jason is the obvious choice to lead this movement so long as Tree doesn't pull the rug out from under him.

Once again, if we showed up to BD2015 what motivation would the BDC, police, and NPS have to change anything?

Then why don't you tell him now and see if he can pull it off. There's no way that year around jumping is going to be something that anyone can pull off at this point... It is the bridge day Commission, not the bridge year commission... Does their charter even have jurisdiction over the other 364 days? But better treatment of the jumpers and staff by the local community cops is something that would be nice, and maybe that could be worked out, along with increased hours on the day of... What are realistic goals you want him to fight for?

Tree dug his grave, it is possible that he might find his way out of it if you guys give him a chance...

That being said, I think the party is still in Twin Falls, but West Virginia will still get enough skydivers with base rigs to give a show to the audience.

He should work with Jason on that. Jason is the only person who knows the dynamics at play and what actually may be possible. Nobody on these boards knows half as much as he does, and that includes Tree. That said, Jason was doing what he felt was best. I find it hard to believe that someone who is less informed here will be a more effective leader.

Tree may well be able to dig his way out, but I think that's dependent on Jason giving him a shovel.

I just heard winner of the accuracy competition gets a tailgate, second place is a tailgate rubber band(already cut in half)and third place is a front of the line pass after you hike out of the gorge. Sorry for the budget cuts due to low jumper turn out. But the party after jumping will have a whole twelve pack of PBR to share with new bridge jumping friends

Last time I was in twin I accidentally met up with a tranny who looked like a chic on tinder.

But I digress

must have been an interesting accident -- what did you do, crash into a Tree?


44

Did I ever tell you that I personally know the BDTF2015 unofficial face of the event, BASE 78? He said you're a gIAnT PuSsiE!

gaping, massive PuSsIe!!!!!!
SinCEreLy,
GeRaLD

Can you believe how quickly this community became divided? I was actually feeling pretty proud for a moment...everyone coming together to support the majority on the communal decision to boycott BD15 in West Vag. I thought this would show the nation that we were an actual community. This became embarrassing quickly. Drinks soon, bud. Don't be a PuSsIe!

The 3 of you are colossal pussies. Especially that Gerald fellow! Does he even BASE anymore :p come TFBD 2015 there will only be 7 planets, cause im bouts to destroy Uranus!!!

I've been to TF three times and I agree it's awesome. I don't think 24/7/365 legal jumping will ever happen at the WV and CA bridges but if the jumping community works together with the local authorities perhaps incremental increases in jumping hours and days are possible.


I have formal training in dispute resolution. Looking at the situation as an outsider I can only speculate, but it seems to me that Jason and the Commission were a lot closer to agreement on the key issues of their dispute than either side realized. One principle in dispute resolution is to help the parties define and focus on the issues. A skilled mediator could have probably helped both sides see past the theatrics and vitriol and helped them find middle ground on the real issues a long time ago. Another principle in dispute resolution is finding a way for both parties to "save face." Making finger scans optional is a great example of that. The Commission saves face by not doing away with them all together. The jumpers save face by having a way to jump without getting their finger scanned. An all or nothing emotional approach to conflict is counterproductive and only makes the other side dig in harder.


That's an interesting question. As BASE jumpers we should all be very familiar with risk assessment. It should be clear to anyone looking at this whole situation objectively that if the boycott had continued, we as a community had a real risk of losing Bridge Day as an event for nonprofessional jumpers. Instead, Bridge Day will continue as it has for decades. With the jumpers and the Commission working together, I think we are now closer, not further from extended jumping hours and days and a more hospitable atmosphere.

Anyone who thinks that the BDC would have come begging the jumpers to come back after a 2015 boycott, offering tons of concessions like increased jumping hours and no background checks was dramatically overestimating the power of the boycott.

The NRG is a valuable tourist attraction in WV. BASE jumping is fun to watch and goes hand in hand with the "wild and wonderful" spirit of West Virginia. More BASE jumping can only help the business that benefit from tourism. So how do you motivate the people in charge to allow more of it? I think Jason was on the right path toward that previously by presenting well-reasoned, creative, mutually beneficial proposals. The finger scanning requirement was a stupid and divisive set back. Now that an alternative is in place I think we're back on the right path.

WTF does optional finger scans really mean?

If you don't want your finger scanned you have the option of not jumping.
What is to stop them from deciding on Friday night that finger scans are mandatory? Or just plain ole fashioned cop lying 'we don't have a record of your background check, finger please.'
Could be wrong, but I'm guessing no one is jumping this year in WV without being scanned.

I don't think it would have taken but a few more months to get many of the changes we sought. In recent weeks, I fielded several phone calls from concerned business owners who were prepared to attend the next BDC meeting and voice their concerns. Unfortunately, this was also the same meeting where Tree sold us out.

Jason,

I don't want anything I've said in this thread to overshadow the gratitude and respect I have for you after attending and volunteering at Bridge Day for 11 years. I think you did a great job and the event has been well-run and incredibly fun. So this is a public, no strings attached thank you for a job well done.

-Gregor

Some interesting quotes from the following article that discusses the most recent BDC meeting: http://www.register-herald.com/...6d-99f797d8a59e.html

"Those whose fingerprints had previously been logged into a national database would be identified"

"On Wednesday, West Virginia State Police representatives said that the biometric scan is an added measure to protect police, since gang members are also identified"

"After local law enforcement officials expressed concerns that a private company may not provide all of the data that would be provided by a scan, Cruikshank added a caveat to the motion that the background check will only be offered if the private companies can provide criminal information from national databases."

"Information from the security checks will be given to local law enforcement, and those who want to have the background check instead of the scan must be present before 9 a.m." [Not sure what this is about. Tree?]

"West Virginia State Police representatives at the meeting expressed reluctance to commit Bridge Day security to a third-party business."


Unfortunately, I've seen the BDC try to change the rules, despite having a written contract in place. I mentioned it late last year on these forums - the BDC tried to force me in August 2014 to background check everyone I had already registered. Since my contract only required a one-time background check, I was asked to go back and obtain name/SSN/birthdate information from around 350 previously-registered jumpers and staff. I told them we need to stick to the contract and they can't change the rules. They didn't like that I stood my ground. Based on the above article, I'm betting that the cops will change the rules again this year, especially since Tree doesn't have a contract with them.

No problem, Gregor. Thanks for saying thanks. I also appreciate your help as a staff member for so many years.

I realize you think it wouldn't work, do you have any specific reasons why you think that? I'm curious.
How was legal jumping born in Twin Falls anyway? I don't know the history.

We will agree to disagree. I'm dissatisfied with the current situation.

I think BASE jumping was just never illegal at Perrine. I could be wrong but I think people just started jumping there and no one saw a good reason to make a law against it. Again, it's a beautiful thing! I don't know much about the CA bridge but there are two main reasons that the TF model won't work in WV:

1. It's over National Park land. For years the NPS been using the Aerial Delivery law to mete out draconian penalties for anyone BASE jumping into a National Park. I do have hope that one day they will stop using that law to prosecute jumpers at NRG and other National Parks but I don't think it will be anytime soon.

2. It's a busy thoroughfare with no pedestrian walkway. The Perrine has a lot of traffic but I don't think it's as much as the NRG bridge, plus it has a sidewalk with a concrete barrier to protect pedestrians. At NRG, unless a lane is closed to traffic the only way to jump it will be from the catwalk under the bridge. There is just no way the authority in charge of the catwalk (whoever that is) is going to allow 365/24/7 access to it. The best we can hope for is organized events when we get temporary access to the catwalk.

1. The NPS has a rule against base jumping here that has been in effect for a long time:
It gets jumped legally on the third saturday of october almost every year without the universe imploding. (preaching to the choir) I don't see why it couldn't be jumped on other days. Again, the boycott would be a valuable tool i think to pressure the NPS into liberating the LZ.

2. Yes the catwalk, the thing that 10 year olds can legally walk across: http://www.bridgewalk.com/index.php
I believe this is what we have been advocating for years.

The NPS expressed their willingness to open the NRGB landing area for jumping on other days, by permit, several years ago. The permit would be expensive, and there are lots of other hurdles to cross, but if you have a half million dollars or so I think it's pretty doable.

The issue is that there is no guarantee that your $500,000 will get you ongoing jumping--you'd be at the mercy of a half dozen different bureaucrats constantly, and any of them could shut you down for any reason, or no reason at all.

We need building located on a bridge that spans 2 mountains and has an antenna on top so we could all get BASE in one jump, what a deal!!
Rick Harrison

-
I think Tom knows more the exact fine details, but Twin just has 'all the perfect scenarios lined-up'.
Idaho State control of Bridge . Nothing can impend traffic physical of visual and nothing or be attached to bridge (example: Bungee or Repel ) . Also I think Idaho State is control of structure underside of the span like Catwalk .
by luck, LZ & Exit Not on the Jerome County side of Bridge . it all falls on Twin side .
And that little piece of Canyon and Bridge is not in total Fed. control or State bureau Land management . The County of Twin is in control of Exit Side . and controls the land below in LZ . It is County control with canyon public water and foot travel thoroughfare/access .

Plus, the Biggie is the minority attitude of City/County, in everyone being in control of there own physical outcome with doing BASE .
Twin Falls In the beginning with BASE jumpering years ago . When Jumpers sporadically went to Twin . we would start the jump by calling city LE and let know they were exiting . Actually explaining in early calls What doing & what was BASE jumping. To what it is now in 2015 just 365 days casually accepted activity on that side of bridge in the Twin falls . The city deals with the occasional news print of Jackwaud Augering-in under canopy and getting airlifted out . And even though there is a Jumper death every couple three years, in reality number of suicides jumps off the bridge still outnumber those.
.

I live in Oklahoma and when you get a new drivers license, they scan your finger print then. Sooo, they already have mine. How about other States??

-J

You're missing the point. We're tired of giving up our personal information, fingerprints, DNA, etc. just to jump and we can go elsewhere. If they already have your DNA, would you be OK with a simple cheek swab to jump? Maybe a quick check of your credit and employment history wouldn't be too much to ask either.

What about the ID badges this year. They're being done by the BD Commission. Will they retain digital images of every jumper's face when they submit 2x2 photos? I NEVER gave out jumper 2x2 photos to anyone.

I get it Jason. I was just wondering if in other states, you had to give your finger print to get your drivers license. If so, they already have a picture and finger print, then maybe they will want DNA for the next drivers license. They're herding cows.

its a bit different. What if they asked you if you were a BASE jumper when you got your license and gave your finger prints. I'm thinking most of us would say no.

Yeah, I know, very sad. As long as there's other objects, they don't have us by the balls.

in texas they take a fingerprint as well. I think the issue might be that our fingerprints are in a state database that may not be connected or uploaded to a federal database. just speculating here. i'm sure this will change once the NSA's uber data collection facility is up and running...: P

I would assume it's all linked. :-/

Michigan doesn't take prints at the DMV

edited because super computers make finger print matching fairly quick despite having a huge database.... thanks green

This is not for or against any person or event.
Simply some basic information for education:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...dentification_System

In 2006 when I made my first BASE jump
I worked on a software contract for FDLE
except back then it was just called AFIS.

with the info green just linked, it becomes clear that it doesn't matter weather or not your name is "linked" to BASE in some database somewhere, if they have your prints, its easy for the FBI to find you, "narrowing down" their search only saves minutes. and if you've ever been printed, and jumped at BD, your prints are already linked to BASE in the FBI database as pointed out by an earlier post involving someone having it pop up in a background check.

to anyone that's remained fingerprint less, I'de fight tooth and nail to remain that way.. but it seems that just by getting a drivers license in some states has ruined that for a lot of people.

 

 

 

I won't submit an opinion on this topic. I will submit a comment about sharing private communications.

That was my comment.


Edit: 1 too many abouts

He's right about Twin. He has been part of the locals who have made it what it is.

And this will be a fantastic opportunity to fuck it up completely. Here's to hoping we don't and it turns out as a huge asset to the city.

Sidebar: Even if you think he's a douche, total dick move sharing texts. I've had some epic drag outs with folks on here. Kept it between us.

Edited because you are right.

What he said was shitty but your point about PMs is well made.

Word. Good call yo.

 I signed up earlier just to note I supported the boycott and the reasons for it. From reading this the problems were more than the fingerprint requirement.

While my opinion doesn't mean a lot as I'm only a spectator I hope you all stay away this year still. If things improve in the future I certainly hope you all come back but the only way to stop this sort of crap is to stand your ground.

Again, much thanks from a WVian to all that stood up to this.

Mark, Your actions may have saved Bridge Day, but you undermined the entire community to do so.

Had you not done what you have, we would have had better negotiating power. Twin Falls for me. I could not care less about any spat between you and Jason, but I will say that he was 100% professional and had the courage to stand up to tyranny.

And...Thread!

Agreed. Can we please lock this thread and stop the inane banter about the annual circus act for BASE tourists and skydivers?

There are probably 100,000 relatively accessible exit points in the United States alone. Let's stop wasting 7 different threads talking about one S in a po-dunk town in WV.

Please shut the fuck up and go jump.

(Now back to your regularly scheduled programming of Monday morning quarterbacking the most recent fatality and armchair physics explanations of PC pull force.)

Claim to be a "trained negotiator" huh? I can only ask for what? I am not. However, all 1 may have to do is look at how large corporations may handle a situation as this. Begging with your hat in your hand saying " please let us jump your bridge" is hardly a strong position.
Very simple, no jumpers= no Bridge Day. It only had to be done once. Tree has completely circumvented that process by making a decision entirely on his own to help. If you think this has brought any positive action on BD, I have another bridge to sell you. You sound like a Tuna to me........

This horse isn't dead enough yet?


Oh yeah? OH YEAH? Well you smell like a Tuna, so there