Basejumper.com - archive

G'day all,

Don't know if this is the right section but here goes...

It's time to buy my first rig, been skydiving since 09 and jumping heaps (I am fucking addicted...), but I am getting mixed responses about rigs so I thought I would bring this to the B.A.S.E. community for some further insite on this.

What is a good all round setup for everything from low Aussie stuff with tight landings to terminal tracking/ws etc and open field landings?

I have been looking at the summit with a Flik for quite some time, but Aussie mates have DP's/flik/osp/Rock dragon/fox, Zak/osp, TLS/Flik lite, gargoyle/troll, hybrid/osp etc...

I have also heard that some containers suit certain canopies better than others. Ie better on heading openings with a certain setup but shit headings with a different canopy/rig setup. I know some of this would come down to packing styles and body positions etc but keen to hear some rigs that have been reliable with certain canopy setups (if that makes sense?)

What are the summit containers like with a Flik/fox/osp etc? (First hand experience please) or what else can you recommend as a good setup for all round.

Things I want in the container are;

- 3 rings definately (for those moments... You know them...
- Not really fussed about articulation (squeaky, more weight, but can be easier to climb A's etc for instance)
- I would prefer a through loop system but I also want loops on the flaps for the low shit. How many people are using, say DP's, with terminal tracking/ws flights without fail? I know this would also come down to loop length etc...)
- I know the gargoyle's are a heavy rig due to the heavy cordura used, bomb proof yes, but the extra weight with terminal tracking come into mind.
- Vents. How many for an all rounder to start off with?
- single point bridle attachment, definitely, keep it simple stupid...
- etc...

Basically, what container/canopy setups have the best results? I know all containers are built to be safe/reliable but there has been a quite few threads regarding off headings due to container/canopy selection has come up in all of them regarding this. Keen to go a bit deeper on what has been working best for peoples in regards to different setups or if it just comes down to packing techniques.

Cheers for you insite first hand information on this.

Stay safe enough but have fun!

Blue skies

Hybrid 2 and OSP light.

if you can only have one rig, i would just pick the one that you think looks the sexiest or what name you like the best. there isn't a canopy or container you listed, in any combination that i wouldn't jump.

i've also never heard of any particular canopy working better or worse based on the container it's in.

I have an OSP lite but would not buy another for the type of jumping I do.

I love the OSP but for more more rugged jumping, ie. not the valley with big grass LZ they don't wear so well.
Roads and rocks scuff them and they tear/damage easily.

I would however recommend a standard OSP, for urban and SD jumping, over any other canopy I have jumped.

I don't jump SU so cannot comment on their suitability.

Laters,

Jools

I've tried a few containers and the Summit is my favorite. The Helium is also nice but it's a little heavier and Morpheus doesn't have as good of customer service as Apex. On both rigs, you can set it up with or without the top through loop. The pin cover flap on the Helium seems more secure, but if you tighten down the top through loop for terminal jumps on the Summit, it's fine. The Summit is also just comfortable to wear. The Helium might be better for a bombproof tank-rig but the Summit is still pretty tough. However, anything with two pins will work for any type of jump you'll ever want to do.

The canopy decision can be made independently of the container decision. There's nothing you can do with a Troll packed into a Summit that you couldn't do with the same Troll packed into a Helium.

The more people you ask this question too, the more answers you'll get. I dont think you will find a magical combo that's the perfect tool for every job, your best bet is probably just asking your mentor what he's jumping on the local objects your going to be jumping all the time and going from there.

blackjack and whatever container you want to put it in that has two little curved metal doohickies that keep it closed.
I use a one of those heavy gargoyle things, but that's probably why I cant fly to Lisa's house from low U.

I'd recommend jumping a bunch of different systems before making your decision.

Basing your decision on your own real world experience will always beat listening to random voices on the internet.

What's your present experience level and what have you jumped so far?

Cruiselite 220 probably. Rare find but if you can find one it will probably come with an athlete page and a Tshirt sponsor.

Summit/FLiK is a good combo. If you're doing a lot of s/u, go ultralite. I use the top through-loop for terminal and the DP configuration for low stuff. Apex's customer service is great.

I think know brand loyalty has a lot to do with where you're located. In other words, some of my loyalty to Apex is because they're close by. I can always stop by their factory, which is really helpful.

Fundamentally, fly as many canopies as you can to discern the subtle differences. Containers are all pretty well made these days; just make sure it fits well, because if it doesn't you'll get cracked.

Perigee Pro from Asylum. And a canopy!

Raven I, wonderhog, 4ft bridle, 52 inch pilot chute. I recommend doing 8 second handheld jumps. Worked for our forefathers.

This is like asking people which car is the best. probably the one theyre driving, thats why they bought it. I recommend getting the gear that many people have around you, or from a manufacterer that is close by. That way when you have questions, you dont have to rely on retards on this site.

Firstly, thanks for all the responses! I see how it is like the old question who thinks what the best "car" is...

What I mean with the off heading posts regarding canopy and container shit are threads like this;

http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2978971;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

But the ain thread that has me thinking about this topic of certain containers that better suit certain canopies is this one...

http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2874275;search_string=What%20container;#2874275

I know there is a lot of bullshit posted on these forums but there is also a wealth of knowledge within the crews on here so the more questions asked (retarded or not ) the better chance of filtering out the bullshit (I hope... But what the fuck is hope really ha ha ha!).

I am really drooling over a Summit container but I am really tossing up (yep, I sit at my computer/iPad (and even my iPhone whilst having a shit in a public toilet, it's that bad.. I know) wanking hard over containers and canopies... Masturbation is great but the time for wanking over this shit is at an end and it's time to make a purchase so I can run around the house nude then stand in front of a mirror wanking over my nice new rig that I will then be wearing trying my hardest not to cum all over it... My doctor says its normal so that's enough for me ) between a vented standard Flik or standard OSP...

I know what the pioneers in this sport did and it's fucking hardcore to say the least, but as the sport has evolved it has also become safer as new technologies arise/invented. With the information I have been shown, read and heard so far, on here, around the camp fire and at the base of objects ground crewing etc... The technology has evolved a shitload from when I started jumping (skydiving)...

So.... Who is jumping a Summit with a vented OSP? I am pretty set on getting a vented 265 OSP or 266 Flik loading at ~0.70 (+0.04 for shin pads, knee pads & 20 x GoPros ( ha ha ha! Nah just one or two GoPros for now...)

Local mates are having good times with DP's loaded with vented flik's/Rock dragon/fox, and another mate just got a DP with a vented OSP but hasn't jumped it yet. I am keen to see or here how that handles...

The summit is just a DP with an extra single top through loop isn't it? No local mates have summits... yet...

Living in Australia, there isn't any company's close by so anything is going to take ages in regards of repairs etc. but riggers can always help out where ever possible...

I am planning a skydiving/B.A.S.E. trip next year starting off in the states, then to Europes alps, then (funds permitting after months of rice and 2 minute noodles) to Norway... So I am wanting to get my gear ordered so it's ready before the trip begins in April...

Cheers for the insite/info regarding these options! As much as it is random dribble over an internet forum that may or may not have any factual evidence in regards to truth or anything, but filtering out the bullshit is a part of life but first hand knowledge can help a little.

Nil winds

I have a summit with a 242 flik ultra lite vented , done about 150-200 jumps on this container with 70 percent tracking terminal jumps and 30 percent wingsuit jumps..

Cant complain with it as it does everything I always wanted in a container and canopy..

You sound like you already know what ya want go get it

I have also owned a hybrid with trango and a gargoyle wsx with troll

and have jumped a few Dp's from apex

It all comes down to want you like mate....

Every jumper will talk there shit up as the best its only natural base jumpers are simple folk..

Look at our punctuation and writing :)


check attachment

Too shay Patto! Yeah I am set on the summit for the container!

The main question is Flik or OSP? Ie does container/canopy selection make any difference given those threads above in regards to off headings with different shit?

Is anyone jumping one (or DP for that matter) with an OSP? Ie Apex*/vented OSP? Any videos jumping this/these setup/s?

PS... By "check attachment" you mean the statistics, BFL, ABA and Kjerag? I study them regularly...

Fly safe people!

check attachment (the picture I uploaded for you ) to show terminal tracking with the summit.. I have only a few low jumps on this setup maybe 10 all up..

I think you will be extremely pleased with the summit it has all the bells and whistles mate..

The question you need to ask is if your doing the majority of your jumps in the mountains?( blue ones ) or you are hitting terminal objects and overseas jumps mainly...

If its mainly Aussie then you should go with what the majority are doing in oz these days....

But at the end of the day your the one jumping it mate.. If you become proficient at your canopy skills you should have no issues whatsoever..

everyone is different and they perceive things differently hopefully by now you have your canopy skills and understanding of control already in the bag from your years in skydiving :)

What you seek is here:

http://www.basejumper.com/gear/

Review here for any new vocabulary:

http://www.blincmagazine.com/...i/BASE_Wiki:Canopies

PS: Gargoyle + Troll MDV F111

Awesome info peoples! Merry Xmas too by the way!

Patto: Ah! I see the attachment now! Nice!

Like I said earlier, all the Aussie's I know all jump different gear/setups. But everyone are saying for Aussie base, get a vented OSP.

I am planning a world skydiving/BASE trip (States, Europe (alps etc), Norway) for next year (2015), so I'll be starting off with "the bridge" (slider off stuff) in the beginning, then moving to terminal stuff in Europe/Norway before coming back home to Australia. Not overly keen (at the moment) to do the stupid low stuff here, but when I gain more XP, things will change I am sure.

How do the OSP's go for terminal stuff (aka terminal tracking etc) and getting to a long spot LA if/when needed?

I have also emailed Apex regarding rig weights without canopies to help work out WL as I am 80-85kg depending on the time of year (I'll be 85kg after Xmas due to extreme beer consumption ) but when I get back into training and normal life I'll be back down to 80kg clothed.

I'm sure all canopies will be fine, especially after being super current during and after the big trip it wouldn't matter that much, but I am still tossing up between the vented OSP, vented Flik with HTS and the vented Troll with ZP nose. Still deciding on vents, either 3 or 5. How "cracky" are they with 5 vents from terminal with a slow slider (ie fine mesh)? How many vents are people here got for their all round rigs?

My main mentor has only done the states and Aussie stuff, no big wall terminal stuff.

Either way, I will be current as fuck under canopy from skydiving heaps in the states for the first month of the trip and will doing multiple balloon, chopper jumps as well. If the OSP isn't too cracky from terminal with a fine mesh slider and can get a decent horizontal flight on rears or braked, I'll go with that... But that's the main question now I guess...

Churs

FYI, no such thing as a non-vented OSP. My recommendation for you being an aussie is just dont ultralight gear and get a vented canopy. No ultralight gear because your odds of landing in a tree at some point are fairly high, no because youre aussie, but because thats what happens in LZs in oz. Youll be able to jump a flik/osp/blackjack just fine on any of your jumps, as many people before you have there, and many will after. The only thing I like comparing something like an OSP to a blackjack is that the blackjack seems to glide a bit better, but not an issue on most jumps. As long as you dont have them put all the vents on one side of the canopy, ill bet you your heading performance will be just find whatever you get. Sometimes canopies with lots of vents can hurt a bit more at terminal. Plenty of people jump them, but some have rather quick openings from time to time.

im not gonna recommend anything specific. I've spent a lot of money to try a lot of different gear and it all saved my life just fine. but if you go the osp route might as well get a hybrid container as well and go through feral (Da Smackdaddy on Facebook) i just purchased a ld3 thru him (replace ld2) and he was always happy to shoot the shit about any questions i had. and he is an aussie cunt!

The best rig is always the one you can afford and buy. So, choose your weapon!

This looks like one of those fictional creatures you speak of...

That's a Troll, not an OSP.
Here's the page you got the photo from: http://basetroll.com/products/troll/

I'd imagine you can order them however you want if you ask very nicely.

Damn... so it is
Thought I was in the OSP gallery!

How many vents do people recommend on a Troll for terminal and SD of easier objects? Some hope and pops from a plane as well for practice. I was thinking going with 3 vents, it will be my first canopy, no hardcore landing areas for this guy here because he is a pussy and he likes to walk.
BTW Zak2 is the best container in the world, because that's what I got.

depends what you mean by "easier" SD. No short delay solid objects? save some $, dont bother with vents at all (and your back will thank you). the KISS principle.

Disclaimer: to the best of my knowledge:

Trolls either come vented (5) or unvented (0).

Atair does not let you pick your own number.

I have taken a vented Troll from 145 to terminal.

I have taken an unvented Troll from 280 to terminal.

Pretty sure this has changed.

pretty much any manufacturer will make what you want. but specifically the Troll has evolved, as per their website:

TROLL STANDARD

F111 material
White Dacron lines
2 stage brakes setting
Control lines in different color
Big mesh slider
Tail Gate system

OPTIONS

Lightweight material
MDV 1,3 or 5 cells
Black Dacron lines
Vectran lines *
ZP nose
Black reinforcement tapes, thread and slider
Slow slider
Small mesh slider

just get all 5vents already and be done with it. you gonna need them when you least expected. for ex when doing deep brakes approaches(including turns) for landing in tight places(trying to avoid obstacles) it will keep that wing above your head still pressurised and prevent it to go into full stall and also give you a decent flare when finishing from deep brakes to full flare

don't worry about how cracky they are on terminal, instead worry about how to pack them for subterminal tracking first and after that for terminal tracking. doing rolls on the nose help with softening your opening and also your body position after pitching is very imp.....get yourself as big as you can.
experiment that in europe at brento(ITW) if you have the possibility. you will know after each jump how many rolls should put(add or take) on that bitch....is gonna go with your progression. you gonna start first with subterminal tracking and thats cause you gonna get so scared on first jump that you gonna pull really high(its the visuals that make you do that unless your pretty much retarded and wanna take it all the way low) and with each jump u gonna get better so your pack job gonna get better if you understand what you doing there.
by the time you get to terminal speeds you should have all this dialed in.

so in conclusion....get all 5 vents and if you wanted an all-rounder then get that OSP


your so called mentor should've known the answers to your questions already. maybe you should call him your friend or your jumping buddy or anything else but mentor. real mentors are really hard to find and its only a handful of them in this whole world and pretty sure he's not one of them. today any fucking retard with 200 base jumps and an athlete faceshit page call themselves mentors and/or start a first jump course

this is my pers opinion....I might be totally wrong

yildiz
cheers

And anybody with 60 jumps can give canopy advice on the Internet and spout off shit like their vents help them with a better flair.

FYI - this changed since I was booked up
by Robert of Morpheus (rest in peace bro).

MMK thanks for the link.

Yildiz I agree, get all 5 vents.

Chuck/Blitz yeah, I agree, but hopefully
only for BASE jumpers with experience.

hahaha.

 



I like your thinking

yeah buddy, theres a little bit more to it than simply rolling your nose cells, especially when you take an OSP to full terminal and are dumping in a track.........

and im not gonna give anyone any advice with my whopping 90 jumps, ill just say that ive gotten my terminal and subterminal packjob dialed in for me personally.

Lol! My thoughts exactly.

Fuck me this forum is never boring is it! I need to do a shit after all this laughing! Not complaining at all! All opinions are welcome and i think all that have posted have heaps more BASE experience than I do anyway!

I know its different with a BASE canopy/mesh slider but my skydiving main (Safire2 149) has the best openings when I dump in a track? Even better when i am tracking in the sky and not just around the house though and it smells less...

Keep the advice coming! Still waiting to hear back from apex about the rigs.

First of all, if you knew how canopies work, you'd know it was "flare", not "flair". They don't use glitter.

Secondly, vents do help with the FLARE, in the same way that Harrier jets land with the nozzle pointed down. When you flare a vented canopy, hot jets of super-pressurized gas WHOOOOOOSH out of the vents and provide an downward, decelerating force.

How this doesn't melt my helmet, I don't know.



~ Chris

Please teach me how canopies work oh wise one.
Do you offer a course?

pure gold.


if not for entertainment... what would this site be?

I still stand by my previous recommendation of a raven and a 52 inch pilot chute

Maybe I'll try that outfit out at "the bridge", but I am not that hardcore yet to have it as my actual "main" everything BASE canopy/PC... I do like to think I have learnt a little from the BFL/BSL... I am not that keen on dying but I will accept it when it happens as there is a high chance in this sport, but we can all minimalise that risk by using the right gear for starters. I want to try my best to not die and getting the right gear for the job is part of that... Otherwise, what's the point of buying a BASE rig when you can just free pack a reserve into our skydiving rigs, saves buying more gear, what could go wrong.... Fucking massive respect to those that do jump skydiving reserves free packed into a skydiving container of "solid" BASE objects! My nuts ain't that big yet... When there is all this specialised equipment out there, specifically designed for BASE, there is no point trying to become a statistic... If I was suicidal, I wouldn't have spent thousands on skydiving training, gear, and I also don't want to help ruin the already frowned upon sport of BASE jumping (well in Australia, the states, etc) by jumping gear that isn't specifically designed for the sport. I do want to do this more than once, more than a thousand times, hopefully more than 10,000 times +... I owe it to my son to do my best at getting the right training and gear for this awesome sport and also owe it to the BASE community to do my best not to try and tarnish this sport (from using the wrong gear for the job that could easily been avoided if I had just used the right gear) that has filled all of our dreams since we were all a little white tadpole shapped spoof sperm, swimming our arses off after getting blown out from our fathers cock into our mothers cunt hole and beating all our deceased brothers and sisters that couldn't keep up into that little egg that starts all our lives off. I guess I'm just being a little bitch by not wanting to be as hardcore as the pioneers ha ha ha my hat goes off to those still jumping that stuff though! Not for me though at this point in time... Flame suit on

On that note, I'll be getting either a 5/7 VTec Flik 266 with HTS, 5/7 MDV with ZP foreskin OSP 265 or a Troll DW 5/7 MDV with ZP foreskin. Still waiting on a reply from Andre, Stane from Atair and also Apex regarding gear, prices, availability, all that shit...

For the trip I'm leaning more to the Flik or Troll and get an OSP for the jumps back home (Australia), but may get a second rig whilst I'm over there specifically for the OSP. See what pans out. I'm sure the vented Flik or Troll will do fine for everything over there, and most probably over here too for that matter. I do know the sizing differences between Atair and Apex canopies but I'd rather load a troll slightly lower than a Flik due to the higher AoA with the Trolls, and the OSP will be more for subterminal and tight landing areas so the more fabric over head the better, well in theory... My main mentor (who I suppose is classed as just a friend now per comments here) is slightly heavier than me (85kgs + gear and armour, say 93kgs at exit, 0.769WL) and jumps a 5/7 vented standard Flik 266 (non HTS) for Aussie/states stuff so me at ~80kgs clothed with a Flik HTS 266 5/7 will be fine (0.719WL at ~87kgs including gear and body armour at exit point). The 265 Troll/OSP will be ~0.679WL (going off a 282sqft PIA) so both are in the ball park of WL 0.65-0.75. I won't be getting an "LV" or "ultralite" canopy for a few years yet. Also got all my measo's for the container/harness done last night so just waiting for responses from company's before shooting off the order forms

How do the standard vented 5/7 Flik's and Trolls go dumping in a terminal track using a PF tracking suit (I believe it's the second version, bought new in 2011, not the power suit). From previous comments it comes down to packing styles. I am sure I'll get all these answers and more when I do the courses though.

I am definately doing a course with Douggs somewhere in Europe after the states. I am still not sure on who I will do the FJC in the states with yet, it will be who ever has a slot available at the time... I'm sure I will get some contacts for this after/during doing shitloads of skydives (as many as I can do in a month, ~200 in the states) when I first get over there.

Fuck I need a beer after all this...

Thanks for all the info, comments, random shit and the laughs! Sorry for not getting a raven with a 52" PC though, but thanks for the suggestions

EXACTLY the same as when you dump in a full track with your awesome safire 149! roughly an 800ish foot snivel, so its nice and soft on your body!

we try to help you but please understand the meaning of paragraphs. have you been spelling long? if you cant spell or paragraph then in my opinion you have no chance at BASE. Bragg about how many driving violation you have.
As one of the Mentors in the world, i say that if you cant spell give it up. Paragraphing would the next step. Please do not take this as an insult.most all are trying to help you not die in our sport. I think that I have been BASEing longer than you have been alive. Contact me via pm and can work it out maybe.
take care,
space
ps, Stane is one of my Students

pilot chutes and sliders will make your rig all around. if you have only SD sites then get a canopy designed for that, SU stuff, get a canopy for that. or jump a raven with a 52". but that only works for a Raven 3. too much drag on the 2 or one. take care,
space

BASE-283 You taught Stane?
Awesome, Hoppy New Year Bro!

Yeah, people with 8 SKY jumps coming on here asking 20 damn
questions about what a line stow is a fucking insult to our time!!

Thanks for all the input! Sorry bout the spelling and paragraphs and gramma and pronoucsiation... I'll blame the school system for those ones . Hope to see some of you during my travels in the next few months.

Ps... I have six (6) SKY jumps, not 8 and what are line stows? Are they those soft things that conect to the long things that connect to the metal thingamgigs?

Sarcasm doesn't work on an iPad... Nor does auto correct and rushed typing ha ha

Cheers all

Ps... Who's stane?

Stane is a mythical creature created by us old timers to save legal sites from lookaway jumpers. but gis knowledge of areo dynamic is so far unsurpassed. but he has a Son who has his Dad's knowledge.
take care, space

Dont be scared get a sabre1 in the same size and pull in a track u might notice a little difference lol...i did

Yeah, I've seen some crackers with those! Using a slightly bigger slider, rolling the nose into itself and pulling the nose of the slider right out infront of the nose seems to tame those beasts.

My theory is that its just skydivers being soft lol....i can pack sabre1 normal without tricks etc even fuck it up and shove it in the bag. standard slider but i always make sure the slider is all the way down...never had a slammer...opens faster then most but not hard..they will open very hard if u pull in a track so as long as u slow your forward speed down there fine....skydivers that are used to a parachute sniveling for 2days and jump a sabre1 cant handle it but...and that why u get them cheap as fuck or even free its awesome

Touché! There are always hundreds for sale for fuck all, but I find the quoted jump numbers they state a bit unbelievable, considering their age/DOM. IE, most I have seen for sale quote 100-150 jumps on the canopy, original line set etc... But, as you say, they probably do 1-10 jumps on them, don't like how they open, then sell them on for a softer opening canopy. I haven't jumped a Sabre1 150 yet, but I had a cracker of an opening on a Sabre2 150 that made me see stars, plus one of my balls slipped under my leg strap during the jump, instant power spew after opening... Can't really say I enjoyed that opening ha ha ha! Comparing the flight characteristics of the Sabre2 150 to the Safire2 149, the Sabre2 felt like it was more docile, heavier on the fronts and less elliptical than my Safire2. It's just more fun to fly. But, the Sabre2 I jumped had 1000+ jumps on the original line set and holes all through it like it was dragged through a rose farm whilst my Safire2 was brand new, so it's really comparing "Swiss" chalk to cheese.

Anyway, that's skydiving dribble...

Skydiving is 10 times more fun when your not jumping a sabre 1.

(skydiving is supposed to be fun)

I might have been loading the one I jumped a bit on the heavy side, I don't know, maybe they are okay at lower wingoloadings, but i would't jump one again if you paid me. Russian roulette with slammers.

I like my back shoulders and neck to work.

They fly really nice though.

dropzone.com

I put hundreds of jumps on a Sabre 1. No issues with it, until it blew up on a hard opening. A huge rip in bottom skin and up though a couple ribs... it made for an interesting flight and landing that's for sure

I would of got scared and cutaway lol....and only time ive ever had hard opening that hurt me was on a safire...so sabre1 or anything hard openings can happen regardless....i was so scared the first time i jumped my sabre1 coz of all the shit ppl talk i thought it was gonna rape me..but it was all good they just dont streamer like most canopies

please stop
dropzone.com is where this should be

Two choices: DZ.com, or video of BASE jumping the Sabre 1