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Self explanatory poll. Where all curious about other peoples positions on this situation.

You may choose multiple choices.

multiple choice or click all that apply?

If fingerprinting is mandatory I'm out.

I may go if fingerprinting is optional. Whether or not I would allow myself to be fingerprinted depends on the alternatives.

i voted the top 3, no WV, yes twin, yes support bag checks.

however, it's too late IMO. at this point, i will not go to WV for bridge day next year. they need to know they fucked up. after careful consideration, i may attend in future years.

i support bag checks, because they do that anyway and that's what makes sense. sure, i carried one rig with me in the morning without hassle as i'm a badged jumper, however, some other non jumper has carried extra rigs out for me in addition multiple years without issue. so WTF?

My issue with bag checks is that they'll probably make you open parachute containers. I've had to hastily re-pack a parachute on an airport floor. Not a ton of fun.

If Bridge day still want jumpers, there will always be someone who is willing to organize, and there will be someone who is willing to jump.

Thats whats going to happen.

Only a fool who doesn't mind losing tens of thousands of dollars would organize with a fingerprinting requirement.

What Jason said... i hope some idiot does try and organize it... it will be a disaster. an expensive disaster.

and i will forever ridicule and shun anyone who attends.

Why would we have a bridge day at the Perrine when its already fully legal?

because they have bridgefest

I hope no one tries a shit show
because I want us to be respected.

Ditto - on the shunning

When WVSP bag checks in years past they do not open parachute containers. (I have been checked by them on six rigs) They also have a machine there on the table that detects large metal items such as pistols and a dog that I presume sniffs for bomb material. They really have no need to open containers.

I might go just for this reason

C'mon stick together! Full boycott for this bullshit....

...as a beginner, I can't imagine making a first jump without the expert help I had this year. Unfortunately, I see a shit show in the works for BD next year, unless nobody goes

where do i send my stool samples for BD2015?

I find it a bit sad that the base jumpers them selves are trying to shut down the only legal event in a national park that has been going on for decades. You have to get your finger prints taken in California just to get a drivers license now (http://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/2001-R-0858.htm) and 3 weeks ago I had to give my finger prints to notarize a signature. Who cares if they get your finger prints? They can't track you with them. Do you own a cell phone? How about use a credit card? If the government wants to track you they will track you. They didn't bust the guys jumping the Freedom Tower because of finger prints.

The park service has wanted to shut bridge day down for a long time. They do not get their funding from jumpers, they get it from tax money. They would be happy to see jumping stop at the bridge, it will make their lives much easier. Why would you give them an opportunity to shut legal jumping down at one of the only legal events that everyone is welcome?

The over whelming paranoia is unsettling and if they said you could jump off El Cap for 6 hours once a year if you would just let them get your finger prints would you? I have had my finger prints taken so many times I can't even come close to counting. It has had zero impact on my life and I use to do bandit jumps all the time. The first time I had my finger prints taken was when I was 10 years old and it was because some cops said I looked suspicious :) I would be willing to bet most of you have had your finger prints taken at some point in your life already anyway.

i thought it was pretty obvious that it's not simply about giving fingerprints. the logistics of how they intend to implement it alone are a logistical nightmare.

fingerprinting in and of itself means nothing. they scan fingerprints in many countries just to go through customs.

it's a matter of principle. the WVSP are clearly overstepping constitutional boundaries and frankly, i'm pretty sick of letting this shit slide. furthermore, background checks, in the name of pre-clearing people to carry bags to an event, is completely ridiculous.

maybe i'm just a little bitter and burned out by the WV scene, but they can keep their 6 hours to themselves if that's how they want to play it.

Jeb,

There are many facets to our opposition to fingerprinting, well beyond the weak argument that "others already do it". It's inconvenient, it doesn't coincide logistically with our current system of handing out jumper ID badges, some feel it's invasive, we'd prefer the old system, etc. I don't think the NPS has a dog in this fight, despite what you think. I know you haven't been to Bridge Day in nearly a decade, so things have likely changed since that time.

I think you're failing to see the big picture. The WV state cops have been harassing us for years and now they want to fingerprint us. Heck, I was pretty close to being arrested by one cop a few years ago because I simply asked why a bomb-sniffing dog had to go through my personal vehicle. When the cop threatened to delay our setup on the bridge at 7AM, I told him he can go right ahead and be "the guy" who delays Bridge Day. Then another angry cop got in my face. They didn't like that I wasn't their typical submissive subject.

Bottom line is the state cops are a problem for the event. They are the "Bridge Day Bullies". And your agreement with their fingerprinting plan puts you in a very small minority.

You're absolutely right Jeb, they busted them because of the NYC anti-BASE statute that arose from your Empire State Building bust.

Oh Snap!

+1

Really, they tracked them down using that did they? Interesting, I thought it was from security camera footage getting the license plate from the get away car. I guess you learn something new every day. But that is a bit off topic when it comes to shutting down a legal base event as aposed to BASE jumping in NY which has always been illegal. That law didn't exist when I tried NY and I was still convicted. They went for a felony with me too. If I had never been to NY anyone jumping from the World Trade Center would be facing a felony just like I did. After September 11th NY lost its sense of humor and will rain pain down on anyone getting caught doing high profile objects.

Having said that I will say this, I was wrong for what I did in NY and I am sorry. I would like to apologize to everyone it has negatively impacted. I was severely punished for it and I will never make that same mistake again. I was young and stupid. Now I am old and stupid but I do know it was wrong...

that was just the worst

Jeb,
I think the point is people don't give a crap about the 6 hours of bridge day. to them its not worth the fuss. the whole world is our dropzone! ill only jump through hoops if i'm not allowed

Understood Jeb. Just giving ya a hard time. Glad you're in the conversation.

You make a good point about the ubiquity of fingerprints but I agree with Elliot - it's a principle issue.

Jeb, what I find sad is that you so quickly sell out your freedoms just because the government tells you to.... In addition, it's unsettling that you think the NPS is funded by tax money. Did the government tell you that too?


.

So replace NPS with State Police. Do you really think they care if bridge day never happened again? Do you think it would make there job and life easier if we never got legal permission to jump the bridge again? Do you really believe giving fingerprints is that difficult? If boycotting bridge day gave the authorities the door they were looking for to shut the event down permanently who would that hurt most? The authorities or the base jumping community?

You are correct I haven't been to bridge day in a very long time and may never go again but that is not really the point. A lot of people in this thread have been to bridge day and are over it anyway so they don't really care if it gets shut down. But what about all the people that haven't been to bridge day yet. The countless generations of jumpers. For a lot of people it's there chance to be part of a large legal base event. I remember what a big deal it was for me the first time I got to go to bridge day and I know how important it was for literally hundreds if not thousands of other people.

Jason, I love you and the work you have been doing at bridge day. I would hate to see all the hard work you have done and the hard work of the people that came before you destroyed because of something as silly as people not wanting to get finger prints taken. Honestly I would be more annoyed with my SSN being taken than finger prints and if I remember correctly you have to give those already don't you?

It's not a weak argument to say you have to give your fingerprint already to do other things. If you have to give fingerprints to get a license or to notarize signatures it means they already have them so it's a moot point. Who cares if they have your fingerprints, it literally means nothing. But losing one of the very few legal base events that anyone can go to would be a huge blow to base jumping. It's the event that is pointed to any time a big legal event anywhere else in the world happens.

I think the worst part of all of this is Jason walking away from the event. I personally wish you would stay as the person organizing bridge day and everyone else just stop being paranoid and get a little ink on your fingers. Legal events for base jumping are few and far between and losing one like bridge day could be devastating for us. It hurts us way more then it hurts them, period...

It's silly to say giving fingerprints is selling out your freedom. Are you really that scared of being identified? Are you an international spy? Do you really think you do anything important enough for your fingerprints to ever actually be used for anything? Unless you plan on killing some people I think you are going to be just fine and for some reason I feel if you did chose to off a few homies you would probably wear gloves. I have been arrested all over the world from bandit jumping and they have had my finger prints since I was a child. Guess how many times my finger prints have been brought up? If you guessed zero you were right... By the way if they don't use tax money to pay for the NPS than where does that money come from? Educate me Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I've always stood up for you Jeb and you've done some amazing jumps over the years. But we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 4% of those in this poll support fingerprinting and I'm not one of them.

I understand your point about losing a legal base event, but I value my freedoms more than I value legal BASE objects. I'm willing to bet that the Bridge Day Commission will change their mind on fingerprints. Money talks. If not, we can jump elsewhere.

Do you really think giving fingerprints is giving up freedom? I just don't see why you guys think it's such a big deal. You guys are acting like they want to microchip you. I have literally lost count of the number of times I have given them. Every government agency in the world has my fingerprints and guess how much freedom I have lost because of it, zero. The only thing they can do with fingerprints is maybe locate a criminal if the criminal was stupid enough to not wear gloves. It literally doesn't affect your freedom in the slightest. Now if you kill someone with a knife on the fly without thinking it through it might have an impact on you but then you kind of deserve to go to jail don't you think :)

You are claiming the nothing to hide argument which doesn't take into account why it's actually worth opposing.

The government and cops makes mistakes and if they false positive identify me as a wanted felon and detain me I could miss bridge day or worse lose my job while they sort it out. They are going to make mistakes, allowing yourself to be introduced into the system is just inviting bad things.

Said better than I could:

http://m.chronicle.com/...ters-Even-if/127461/

I have to say if I did lots of sponsored legal jumps, and selling myself to the media/public was a concern at all (which it never will be) then I would be worried about "losing bridge day" too. I would be all for just dealing with the fingerprinting, because I wouldn't want the sport to lose the "valuable public exposure." However, I think the sport could do with a little less public exposure every now and then, and I'll keep jumping either way... I just hope that we can grow something better from this problem we face with BD.

Thanks for all the work you've done over the years, Jason. It was fun.

You just don't get it Jeb. It's not all about the fingerprinting. It's also about the ever intrusive 'authorities' continually putting unnecessary, costly, and often idiotic burdens on the people for no good reason.




I would have thought someone in your position would be more knowledgeable about the money game.

For your edification padawan;
National parks in the United States are funded in three main ways: direct funding by the government, user fees, and donations.
I'm sure you are going to say that the funding from the government is money from taxes so please let me direct you to this report by the Grace Commission which explains where your taxes go.
http://www.uhuh.com/taxstuff/gracecom.htm

If you are too lazy to read what it says, in short it reads, "100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.”

So basically the money that the parks get from the government is NOT TAXPAYERS MONEY it is BORROWED MONEY that the government gets, most likely, from the IMF and other sources through the Federal Reserve. There is a reason taxes keep going up and it's because the government keeps borrowing money while the all tax money collected goes to paying on the interest on the national debt and not to paying down the principal already borrowed. When the debt increases so does the payment on that debt. Even if we cut government spending to zero we would still have a difficult time paying off the national debt. It's a vicious cycle that the government and banking institutions have no intention on ending.

Jeb, I couldn't agree more. Besides being an inconvenience, why the hell does it matter? You will prove nothing with your little "boycott". But if you do, it will only negatively effect jumping there for the future.

Affect is a verb. It means to produce a change in or influence something.

Effect is most often a noun that can also be used as a verb. It means a change that occurred. (When an "s" is added, "effects" means personal belongings.)

So, you could say "it will only negatively affect jumping there for the future," or you could say "it will only have a negative effect jumping there for the future."

Gotta troll with correct grammar lol

Non US citizen get fingerprinted at the airport whatever they come for, bridge day, business trip, nascar race!...

I cut a check for $2500 to the NPS for a Bridge Day special use permit each year. Jumpers pay their fair share so that the taxpayer doesn't have to.

Jeb,
With the amount of money Bridge Day brings in, they would be fools to not fold. If they don't then we can go to twin falls or maybe something will pop up out west. The party is not going to stop. sure some people might have to work a bit harder to get there first base jump in but some might say that's a good thing.

I think events like Bridge Day are a good thing for the Base community. On the other hand bandit jumping is why I got into BASE. I live for the same kind of jumping you used to. Its fun to hang out and party with friends but I would rather open a B then jump off a bridge that some one is "letting me jump".

I get that their needs to be balance. The more people that get into BASE the better gear we will have (the cost might even go down), but if I had to pick it would be the dark side every time.

PS if you have any older footage when you used to be into stealth and aerials you should put it on a DVD. Your old stuff is a blast to watch!

The problem with "the Jeb argument" is that it assumes there is no market for legal BASE jumping events. It assumes that we're being done a giant favor by the powers that be for giving us Bridge Day and that we should be on our knees begging to hold onto their charity.

I disagree with this sentiment.

Other municipalities have already expressed an interest in hosting such an event, even before WV State Police decided to start waving their d*cks around.

Your assumption is that we need them more than they need us. I disagree and expect that another town, maybe a little more West, will show them just how wrong they are. BASE is bigger, safer, and more marketable than it's ever been. Whatever momentum was in place to get BD started years ago has been multiplied many times over.

If Bridge Day goes away we can't look back at it and think what was lost, we should look at it and be grateful for what was gained. We've got a hell of a record to show other locations that this can be done safely, repeatedly, and profitably. If BD goes away, we can also point to a tremendous supply/demand imbalance. Let's use this opportunity for what it is: leverage to propel us somewhere bigger and better.

I say we ask for the Freedom Tower. Always start high during a negotiation!

The NPS loses if Bridge day loses jumpers. Best way to control something is to allow a little bit of it with lots of strings attached. If there is no BD jumping then no reason to worry about a BD ban for getting busted elsewhere in a park. Look at how paranoid the hang/PG crowd is of upsetting the NPS all because they don't want to screw up the crappy early morning hangglider sled ride permission. If the NPS ended that they would have more bandit HG/PG flights not less. Let BD be about fried dough and finding a new church. Jump somewhere you are wanted.

Have fun with that. I work a block away from there and get fingerprinted on my way to work every morning. If you hate the WVPD, just wait until you meet the NSA.

Jeb does have a point - allowing Bridge Day to die seems like we as a community are folding and allowing WVPD to finally win. WVPD clearly don't give a rat's ass about Fayetteville and the economy thereof, so I doubt a walkout would do anything but thrill them. How about an on-bridge protest next bridge day? I'd get fingerprinted to make my one jump and hold up a "I AM NOT A CRIMINAL" poster up for the rest of the day. Not like I don't get fingerprinted every morning as is...

The People's Republic of NYC gave up on individual rights a long time ago. Protesting in WV will do the same amount of good there as is does in New York...zero (give or take).

I say we do our best to do the opposite of everything that NYC does.

You're assuming that people of WV have given up on individual rights as much as people living in NYC have. I'm hoping that's not the case, because if it is - our fight is doomed to failure before it even begins.

That's foolish. The town of Fayetteville has more pull than we do. A boycott will force them to go to bat for us. The Boycott is the best idea I've seen. Let the police win and fuck over a city in their state. Make them the bad guys.

I think part of it isn't just the act of fingerprinting though. The problem is that it sets a precedent.

For example, you are saying that it is okay to fingerprint because you do it a bunch of other places: DMV, foreign travel, etc. This is a reasonable point

The precedent that is being set at Bridge Day isn't one of fingerprinting, it is that the State Police can do whatever they want and that BASE jumpers don't have a say in it. That creates a reasonable precedent that the State Police has all of the authority.

There are some sociological concepts we can get into about the different types of authority, but long story short, BASE jumpers will ALWAYS have the authority to elect to not participate. State Police will ALWAYS have the authority to run things how they want to. The question is really if people will be willing to exercise their authority after they have given it up.

Agreed. I understand Jeb's point from a logical big picture, but it misses he point. Point is that we are governed by laws and our society, is getting way too police state oriented. At some point, you can't just say "oh well, they already have my prints", you have to say, for this recreational event that benefits your community, why should we be treated like suspected criminals? If you wish to treat us this way, we'll go somewhere we are more welcome". If people continue to let authorities push and take away civil liberties a little at a time, guess what, you never get them back. Remember seat belt laws, they promised no citations or stops just for that, but only in conjunction with other violations. Now we have "click it or ticket" and it's used to stop and snoop. Recall red light cameras that were only going to be used for traffic control and not citations. Well, guess what, like poker, a card laid is a card played. If we let them believe they can do as they wish with no challenges or consequences, they will. It's up to people to stop it. They pushed us nearly every year for more concessions at Bridge day and it's time the stars of Bridge day say enough is enough.

i haznt yet read it clearly stated whats the REASON for fingerprinting?!

Jason can u elaborate?

to me its clear as day that although its to be performed by the police, its 100% NPS "baby" and the fingerprints are going straight to their database their building on base jumpers. fingerprint = LINK to you being a base jumper. caught on trail in natnl park carrying a suspicious bag? or after someone reported seeing a jump, and they stop you walking out even without gear.. you;ll have much harder time proving your not a jumper/havent jumped when they take your fingerprints

Jason, can u answer this: what info has NPS collected about BD jumpers over the years?

- name?
- address?
- phone #?
- email?
- SSN?
- photo?
- is NPS still taking pics of every jumper on landing with telephoto lenses?

jeb: BD fingerprint being a permanent proof for NPS that your a base jumper is not the same as fingerprint u give when u get drivers license or at customs

Quite simple. Because it gives us a chance to connect and have a great time with BASE jumpers. Bridge Day is legal to when you have it...

Personally I do not follow the Jeb argument on the basis, that for 13 years under Jason & Co's hard work, what harm has being a criminal at this event brought. The police had less to worry about and everyone had a great time, regardless of their criminal past. how would you feel Jeb, if you paid your way, coughed up a lot of money and got rejected because of an outstanding parking fine or trespassing? Extreme, but possible? Did that fine or your being a criminal for not paying have any effect on the safety of others there? No!

I feel that if you are a BASE jumper and you have not broken the law once, you are just not taking the sport seriously.

Thats what the Perrine Bridge Festival Weekend is for, and Memorial Day Weekend. Why would anyone want to register for an event at a legal object and wait in line to jump when you can already just go there with all your friends and jump without waiting in line or registering? Im sure people would not be too stoked if there was a "Cliff Day" in Moab during the Turkey Boogie where you had to register and wait in line to jump tombstone. Bridge Day is Bridge Day because its an illegal object, its fairly big, and its a tradition.

That seems quite simple to me.

who says we would have to wait in line? just meet up jump and party. or just party

But really we could just say everyone that wants to go to TF for these dates and we will meet at This bar after the jumping is done for the day

I posted earlier in this thread that, people should just come to the Perrine Bridge Festival instead. It's for a great cause and Twin Falls would welcome the influx of jumpers!

"Why would anyone want to register for an event at a legal object and wait in line to jump when you can already just go there with all your friends and jump without waiting in line or registering?"

WHY?
Cause if you had 450 jumpers show up at the Perrine all at once some organization would be needed. How do you convince 450 jumpers to show up and wait in line to jump a legal object is the real question.

I would go to Twin one day a year to wait in line to Jump and donate to Miles D. Festival as a "thank you" to Twin Falls 365 day a year support of BASE jumping. 450 people Paying to jump a free and legal object would raise Big bucks for those kids with special needs. It would further detract from the criminalization profiling we are receiving in WV. Support the Town that supports us. We all see the "good" that bridge day brings the town of Fayetteville, the fact that the NPS and WV state police don't see that or care leaves me with one conclusion, Fuck em, let's go where we are welcomed and loved!

i can't be certain, but i don't think anyone meant an actual organized "bridge day" in twin falls... just instead of going to WV everyone would go to idaho. :D

business as usual.

edit to add: because i agree Slambo, that would just be stupid.

So you are telling me that 400+ jumpers in Twin with no organization would go off without a hitch? Wrong! that would only end in disaster! I stopped going to Twin on memorial day because of the "Shit show" (not saying BD isnt one either, but at least they have enough EMS and boats to deal with the debauchery)
If your going to boycott and go elsewhere then do it right. I was saying jump on board the Perrine bridge festival. Miles would love to have the support, but if you think 400 jumpers showing up in twin with zero organization isnt a problem, give me some of what your smoking!

edited: To those saying lets just go party in Twin the same date as Bridge, thats stupid, it would only detract from what Miles has built up at the Perrine bridge Festival one month prior. Just support his event and if you want to jump an illegal object legally get behind supporting a west cost BD in Auburn. I dont want argue or call people stupid, but we should be looking for the silver lining on this one. Im not saying show up in Twin and pay to jump. Im saying show up in Twin and DONATE/support a righteous cause

actually no, i didn't say any of that.

it's big boy rules. don't really care either way. probably wouldn't go anyway. not that big of a fan.

So you don't have anything good to smoke? Darn, your response as I understood it was that "no one was thinking of having an actual bridge day, but just EVERYONE show up in Twin." Well if everyone means You, me and Slambo, then i aggree with you guys. But if you meant EVERYONE that goes to BD (thats 400 plus jumpers, with only a hand full that no what the fuck they are doing) then I stand behind my logic and reasoning for jumping on the Perrine Bridge Festival.

haha, no agreed... THAT would not be a good idea at all.

come to think of it... i don't really want to be around 400 basejumpers ever. especially when 200 of them are kind of just pretending.

so my other thought along those lines were yes, the experienced guys could just plus up the perrine bridge fest.

with no pressure on cramming everything into a 6 hour window... the others could leisurely plan their trips with the mentors for FJC or whatever...

my perspective is skewed though... i'm not eager to learn or teach BASE jumping, so i like hanging out with jumpers that are better than me... like all the invite only events elsewhere.

Kinda pretending, lol, 200 is way to low of a number. I met several people at BD that consider themselves "BASE jumpers" that only ever jump at Bridge day, then there is the slew of first timers. Im with you I dont want to be around a shit show of debauchery, but Im about building positives out of BASE, and making lemonade out of Lemons. Knowing the skill level at BD, Twin is the only viable option. Im very curious to how jumpers will be allowed to jump at an Auburn BD. Just saw a random nub almost kill himself there on Saturday.

[quote "goinin"
Im not saying show up in Twin and pay to jump. Im saying show up in Twin and DONATE/support a righteous cause
totally agree.

BASE jumpers balk at revised Bridge Day background checks

http://www.fayettetribune.com/...86-5b8bfe7e3934.html

...and now the locals know my point of view.

When I asked why they want to fingerprint us, I received this response from the State Police rep who attends Bridge Day Commission meetings:

The FBI who run CJIS have advised us that we may not run such an in depth inquiry on people for non criminal offense reasons. The fingerprint scan which is just one finger "the index" runs a check on a person to see if they are on the Terrorist Watch List or wanted in NCIC or if they are a Sex Offender. If they are not on the watch list or wanted then they would be good to go. We don't have to deal with social security numbers, addresses or dates of birth. The plan is to have jumpers and rappellers to show up the night before put there finger on the machine if nothing comes back then they will be given their jump or rappell credentials. This will be done for venders too. They will have to show a valid ID also. Hope this answers your questions if you have anymore just call or e-mail.

Bottom line is that we're not getting a straight answer from them, other than it's "easier". How can it actually be easier if they're doing everything the day before Bridge Day? Personally, I see the fingerprinting of jumpers being implemented as a method to:

1) Close the event.
2) Obtain fingerprint data to add to their existing list of name/DOB/SSNs. The NPS already has a database of jumpers that has been confirmed a few years ago by an unhappy ranger who called me with details.
3) Gain more control over the event (to better check jumper numbers and eliminate any possibility of the BASE and rappelling coordinators letting friends through).

Recent newspaper articles and discussions:
http://www.wsaz.com/...-2015-286966481.html
https://www.facebook.com/...ts/10153020821687845
http://www.wvgazette.com/...41228/GZ01/141229517

FYI: The Bridge Day web store will be shut down effective 1/1/2015. Bridge Day BASE assets are being sold in the next few weeks. This includes the catapult, radios, diving board, ramp system, metal fencing, cash register, wireless anemometer, windblades, pop-up tents, laminators, base rigs, etc.

Um...er...uh...this still doesn't explain why any background check has to be run at all.

Does the Boston Marathon fingerprint each and every marathon registrant? Do they do background checks?

Does the New York Marathon fingerprint each and every marathon registrant? Do they do background checks?

The answer to these questions is "no". Hence, Fayetteville has no justification, legal or rational, for treating BASE jumpers, rappellers, or vendors as threats to the community.

Jason, once again, thank you for the stand you're taking. And thanks for keeping us informed.

~ Chris

Some of the BASE community?


Pretty excited? Why do I not believe this? As a human (not as a Jumper) I get excited over getting laid. I do not get excited over getting finger scanned. What an asshole comment.

Sorry to see all your hard work and dedication to this event go so un-appreciated. Clearly, there's an (unknown) agenda here. As with ANYTHING that has the government involved in, a reason has to be created, even if it doesn't exist. As I've said in the past, this had to happen. Perhaps the locals that benefit from the jumpers involvement in this event, might feel a need to take control away from this unnecessary intrusion. Time will tell. I'm optimistic. Don't fire sale everything just yet.....

nice summation of your comment.
take care,
space

The same could be said about your incoherent, BASEless ramblings. But, I digress...

stand up,
Besides being an asshole, do you have any other skills, like in logic?
Take care.
space

If you realley think you are rite spell it ooyt.

So I will “Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.*” Game. Set. Match. See you on the next one.
Take care.
space-less

*Mark Twain (lojikally, eye cannot deduce that you wood no this with the soperyour splling that u exzibit)

You jmp the places and the gear that I had a major influence in. you are alive because of all the peeple in the sport. dont be a dick. we are here to support gopro dudes.
Do you want a low pull contest or what shall i offer as a game? Game on dude. I will outliove you in the sport.

Interestingly this is one of the few times that a bad habit I have actually works for me. I have dermatophagia, which a compulsive disorder to bite my nails and tear the skin on my fingers, including into the fingerprint area. The police have never been able to get a successful read on my fingerprints even after all my arrests. The automated fingerprint scanner just comes up with 'Unacceptable' over and over again until the cop hits the override-accept button. Even in the states I've been in where they required a thumb-print, the fucking thing is unreadable.

Hell, if you think you are going to get fingerprinted, take a clothes needle and shred the top skin layer on your fingertips. There's no pain and the fingerprint looks all mangled!

The only way they could ever try to track me down based on fingerprints would be to look for the person with the mangled fingers.

Space, please don't insult ***holes by conflating them with cowards without the cojones to ID themselves and own the poop they spew.

This particular coward sounds a lot like a West Virginia State cop... you know, hiding behind his douchebadge completely oblivious to the magnitude of his ign'ance.

Best he avoid you when you're hawking or your bird will mistake him for a mouse.


44

On a related note, this article underscores that what the WV Gestapo and its Bridge Day Commission lackeys say they'll do with the fingerprints versus what they actually will do with them may be two very different things.

44

i have not wasted 30 years for the likes of you, I did it for the sport that i love. tis better we take this offline for you to tell me to how fuckt i am/// so you dont seem ljke the fooll.

What outlet will they be sold through?

Hey Space and Robin, I do not know who douchekiller is but sounds like an example of what happens to every super extreme sport. At first, it's so dangerous that only a few have the internal need and guts to try it. That caused early jumpers to feel a pretty strong bond with others crazy enough to want to do it. Early climbers had a strong bond till it got so commercial and technically safer that now they take less experienced climbers up Mt. Everest for enough money. Early barnstorming pilots, same bond. Early skydivers same bond. Now, after my 32 years, our gear is so safe, techniques improved so much, that we have many in the sport without the same feeling of solidarity we once had. Not their fault, gear got safer, You Tube came along and made it look like a carnival ride so it just didn't take the same kind of person to get into BASE. I support the effort of a boycott. If the locals don't care enough to assist in backing down the State police, then I hope jumpers stay away. We'll see what happens.

I'll likely sell some assets at http://www.bridgeday.info, then move on to Ebay for any remaining items.

Then how come you don't come to BD Jeb? I've seen you there once, like back in '06 or '07... Six hours is not a huge blow to BASE jumping. The whole World is jumpable.

 

Just so everyone is aware, I received prior approval from "colso" to hand out his contact info to reporters regarding Bridge Day fingerprint discussions. If there is a Bridge Day 2015, I can only hope the next BASE Coordinator protects everyone's information as I have. Trust me, everyone wants the jumper list.

I made a NYC prosecuting attorney get a warrant before I handed over "video waiver" footage of a Bridge Day jumper several years ago. It had something to do with an Empire State Building jump that went wrong. I almost went to jail as the local judge was upset I didn't simply hand over the footage. This was the only time in 13 years I had to hand over information to the authorities.

An estranged mother called me one year to see if her son was jumping at Bridge Day. She reported that she hadn't spoken to her son in years and just wanted to watch him jump. Out of privacy concerns, I could not divulge if her son was on the jumper list.

On at least two occasions shortly after Bridge Day, I received calls from nervous spouses asking if their husbands had jumped earlier in the week. They were concerned because the "jumper" had not returned home from Bridge Day. In both instances, the husband never registered or jumped at the event, and they were apparently cheating on their wives while reportedly on a jumping trip.

And then there were the insurance investigators, lawyers, reporters, and a dozen other people that want to know who is/was jumping. Just a few examples as a reminder of the responsibilities the next guy will have to face......if there is a Bridge Day to organize.

Whoops. Yeah. Sorry I wasn't clear about how you asked me if it was okay first, Jason. I only hope the same is true for anyone who organizes an event. Once again, you set a high bar, sir.
-C.

Now they know my point of view too...

http://www.wvgazette.com/.../GZ01/141239939/1419

Youre right, we'd never have BASE jumping without you crusty old geezers. We should have a day of celebration to show the pioneers how much we appreciate allowing us to BASE. I mean younger folk would have never figured it out, oh wait, they just made it "better". :p That high horse is getting a little aged, which way to the glue factory!!! You'll outlive everyone in the digital BASE world. Your jump/post ratio is looking a little worrisome. Oh i dont want to leave douche out of this, go look in the mirror, ok thats enough punishment. C ya.

You should perhaps watch your mouth.. or.. keyboard.
Disrespecting the shoulders on which you stand is indecorous.

It's not about what anyone figured out, as you may well have done it if you had the opportunity. However, you should note that you didn't have to pay for your knowledge with the experience of broken bones.

Perhaps, or i should take a shit on your keyboad. One of the three, i think i shall pick the latter since you are busting out the fancy words! I dont stand on anyones shoulders, i think wett all found out what happens when you do that. I was mainly joking before but i think im serious about the keyboard. Can i come over?

Ya i just had to fork over a bunch of money to a person who wanted to teach people instead of trying to find some old chode jumping velcro and skygear. I would much rather suffer the broken bones and blood lloss than try to find these "mentors" to stroke their ego off. Its like searching for a unicorn. Its all magical until you find out what they do with those fucking horns of theirs.

I'll watch my keyboard though, i dont talk enough to have to watch my mouth. But if i did, i assure you id have to watch that as well. I should watch my bridal but now im a bridal ninja because i watched all of his videos. Ya i can take a hint, but i'd rather take a hit! Its fucking cold in Twin. My fear boner gets bigger in the winter.

And the Idiot Dialectic Award for Best Oxymoron Forum Name goes to...

Lucid!


44

Robin, there is a forum for skydivers, its called Dropzone.com.

whenever i need terrible BASE jumping advice i can always rely on robin. The pioneer of posting on the BASE forum without even knowing how to jump.

I rest my case.

love and kisses and Happy New Year to all.


44

comedian of the new year. I dont see where you gave anythinfg to the sport. maybe give us an update. my gf likes your post though.
take care,
space

I didn't give anything to the sport. The BASE gods have been favorable to me. I found a pull-up cord when I was hiking under the bridge. It was imbued with the seminal ectoplasm of a spectre that came to speak to me. He said, "As long as you keep this pull-up cord in your packing stash you shall be blessed with the ability to not be a pussies BIG" Too windy? Never!

https://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be

Sorry for the thread drift, figured I'd Tokyo drift it since Space and Douchelicker were measuring cocks.

it was Osaka, not Tokyo. Shin Umeda building. i landed inside.
take care and google. http://www.google.de/...&ved=0CCIQrQMwAA
space

that is a funny post. i agree with all you posts except for the penis post. funny thing is that i was given a ""Legendz" Tshit. mybe you can get one in 30 yrs. BASE is not about Penis size imho. BASE is about going to the extremes just because we can. I dont ask for appreciation
but my students have done the highest and lowest jumps. So you can just get a clue wtf The most nasty thing about the sport is that if you are bad you die without knowing why, If you are good, you watch your comrades die.i am inbetween.. i cant walk very well but i stilll jump. I still train and mentor. but just go your on way as i did. reinvent the wheel so to speak. I only ask that you find a new way to die in the sport to teach..... people like you.
take care,
space
Come over and do a bitch slap in ff.pm me for itenary.

Its not from a lack of trying. We will see what I can come up with ;) You should have put the pause after sport. It reads funny your way. That's what all the BASE jumpers say that have small penis's ;) I hate it when I die and cant figure out why. Maybe it was from that stupid poised exit I did off a cliff, durrrr maybe I should run next time. Geeez this Base jumping sure is fucking rocket science. No hard feelings except down below brother. Just fucking about. I will let you know if I ever make it over there, although a trip to the local cesspool might be more stimulating. Unless youre buyin!

You sound remarkably like johan420 who made a complete dickhead on this site about 7 years ago - is the 420 jumps made a coincidence - I suspect not.

I actually know an atomic phsi who jumps. Step offs are for pUSSiettps https://www.youtube.com/user/base283

How long have you two been married?

My name is Robert. I actually dont even BASE jump. I just want to annoy everyone. Oh wait thats you.

Nice lowpull spacey, but would it kill you to use the URL brackets when you post a link. Had to copy and paste, fuck i got carple tunnel now.

Many of us feel this thread is important. Please go elsewhere if you all want to bitch at each other.

The topic is important. The thread is dumb. The poll is retarded.

Respectfully disagree, old friend. The worst part of this is the ongoing and accelerating dissolution of the freedom to live our lives the way we want to as long as we do not injure others.

The 9/11 Fever that has so badly infected American security institutions is getting worse every day and very few voices are being raised in opposition. To me the BEST thing about this is Jason walking away from the event -- and all the jumpers following him.

BASE jumping is (we keep telling anyone who will listen) the ultimate expression of freedom, so how can ultimate freedom be legitimately and truly expressed when you must submit to and pass through a police-state gauntlet to reach the launch point?

If we are EVER to break the 9/11 Fever and return our security institutions to relative sanity and sobriety, what Jason and the BASE community are doing by standing their ground is precisely what will bring that to pass. Somebody has to start this "Just Say NO to 9/11 Fever" and I am proud to be part of a community that is (at least so far!!) being among the first to step off that edge -- even if it does in the short term hurt us worse than it will hurt them.


44

I couldn't have said it better, Robin. Thanks.

+1

1989. friendship we married in 2005' oh, you mean Gerry. i dont marry guys. but i think it was '89.
tcs

Yahoo has article out today about 'The One Can't Miss Event in Every State This Year'. Guess what it shows for West Virginia.

:)

I really can't understand why they would do this? I thought USA was supposed to be "the land of the free"? Surely the tax payers money that is to be allocated to this unjust and unconstitutional "operation" would be financially better for the country if it was spent investigating the Carlyle group of its war profiteering. But they have heard it all through the fillings in our teeth.

Who the fuck knows but them.

Back to reality;

Either way, it's unjust and unconstitutional to be doing this at a national sporting event that really helps the local communities economy from all the people flooding in to the town to watch and/or participate in the event. All this will do is hurt the towns economy if the event is shut down.

Or not...

...that was quick.

http://www.wvgazette.com/.../GZ01/150109710/1419

Didn't they tell us that those paper applications would not be stored just like they are telling us the fingerprints scans won't be?

We are just going to disagree on what giving up freedom means. I agree that giving up freedom is never a good thing. I just don't see letting people have finger prints as giving up freedom. Like I said before I had to give finger prints to notarized a letter and I felt zero effect on my freedom. But I do see having a legal BASE jumping event shut down as impacting my freedom. If I can no longer legally jump the new river gorge bridge that is a real life loss of freedom, for all of us.

But having said this I do support Jason and if he truly feels this is the best corse of action then I am behind him. Hopefully they cave and don't force finger printing. But I do feel it's important to at least discuss the potential that this is what they have been hoping for all these years. A way for the jumpers to shut them selves down...

I just sent an email to the head of the Bridge Day Commission regarding their reported retention of personal information. Here is what I wrote:

If you or anyone else has ever retained BD jumper name/DOB/SSN information, then you have done the exact opposite of what was supposed to be done. Since 2002, this personal information was never intended to be stored by me, you, or anyone on the BD Commission. I was always told this info would be destroyed by the BD Commission once the background checks come back clean. I always deleted this personal data as soon as I got a green light from the Sheriff or whomever did the background check.

If the BD Commission was storing name/DOB/SSN information after the event, then that goes against what they publicly stated would be done. Hopefully by "storing" our information, they meant it was retained for a short period of time until a background check was complete.

My guess: A vague denial of finger scanning, then magically finger scanning set up on the bridge the morning of Bridge Day. No scan no jumpy. See how many cave then.

That sounds about right to me.

Your post raises three questions:

1) Why exactly would the Bridge Day Commission "cave" on fingerprinting if Jason and the jumpers followed your advice and said, "Okay, no problem!"

2) Who is "they" that have been "hoping... all these years" for a shutdown -- the police-state putzes trying to further increase their power or the people whose prosperity depends in significant part upon a Bridge Day well-attended by jumpers and those who come in large part only to see them?

3) How exactly are we shutting ourselves down when we just moved the party away from police-state putzes who don't like us to a place where the police are cool and people appreciate and welcome us not only on one hotel-rate-gouging weekend a year with six hours total of jumping on one day but on every business-as-usual day of the year with jumping from dawn 'til dusk?

And here's the final straw, you might say:

As Jason points out above, the Bridge Day Commission and its police-state apologists promised more than a decade ago that all the personal information they collected would not be kept -- and now it turns out that they not only lied and kept all that information -- they're now using the fact that they did lie and keep it as the "reason" they want to go to the fingerprint scan because if they "just" do a fingerprint scan they won't keep that data.

The bottom line, Jeb, is that the spokeshole who talked to Jason spilled the beans: the "background check" the police-state putzes were doing had become so invasive that even the FBI told them to go eff themselves -- THAT is why they are scrambling to do something else... because they abused their access and authority to the point that the FBI could no longer be associated with it. As the spokeshole reported to Jason (see post #59):

"The FBI who run CJIS have advised us that we may not run such an in depth inquiry on people for non criminal offense reasons."

Really... and just exactly how "in depth" were those inquiries?

Here's another thing about security services: associations and connections and networks are a big part of their threat analysis and the collected data tends to become fungible during analysis. Ergo, the fact that your fingerprint would be submitted for comparison with the terrorist watch list in fact then creates an association between your fingerprint and the terrorist watch list -- and, in the case of the Bridge Day proposal, and the sex offender list (I'm still not sure what they fear a sex offender is going to do to their bridge) that investigators can then use as data points to single someone out for additional attention/surveillance/whatever. On top of that, your fingerprint would then become associated with criminals, illegal immigrants and others "trying to beat the system," as one Homeland Security official said in 2007. Go here for the whole story but here is the Bridge Day-relevant passage:

A secret facility outside Washington, D.C., houses a database containing more than 60 million fingerprints.

It stores the prints of not only suspected terrorists but fugitives and illegal immigrants who have been kicked out of the country.

The effort aims to track individuals who might have created a false identity to get around security.

"We are looking for people who are trying to beat the system," said Robert Mocny of the Department of Homeland Security. "The fingerprint doesn't lie. The name and date of birth can be changed but the fingerprint cannot."

So while you may rightfully feel zero effect on your freedom by giving fingerprints to notarize a letter, this situation is orders of magnitude different because your fingerprint is being taken because you are in fact suspected of being a terrorist or sex offender merely for wanting to exercise your freedom by jumping off the New River Gorge Bridge with a parachute.

And that is why it's so important and so cool that Jason and all the jumpers are voting with their feet on this one.


44

Spot on.

Wild tangent


What the fuck was wrong with what you did? You didn't hurt anyone.
At worst, you would have hit the building and hurt yourself. No great loss to anyone else and the 5 angles of GoPro would have gotten you on Conan that much earlier. (Sarcasm. I am glad you didn't die on table mountain)
The fact is that the world is much more interesting with fun loving hooligans who do goofy shit. I can't see what you need to apologize for, except if it is court ordered, then I totally agree that you should be sorry and all that...

There was a city law passed after Jeb's attempted jump from the Empire State Building that made it illegal to parachute off any building above 50ft. I think he's apologizing because of the additional charge you can receive if you are busted. The guys who jumped the Freedom Tower were charged with this among other things.

Above 50ft? That is ridiculous, why would they even make that stipulation?

So there was no law before Jeb tried his "stunt"
I blame "big brother" for passing the law, and the people of New York for not fighting against one more unnecessary law.
The number of people who would willingly jump from a building in New-York even if it was completely legal is insignificant. There is a vandalism and trespassing issue for the exit point and probably several other legal issues for possible landing areas in the city that makes it legally impossible/impractical/inadvisable anyways. So why another fucking law?

Hypothetically, if there was a legal BASE event in NYC like Bridge-Day, How many people would show up?

The drafters of the so-called 'Jeb law' likely made that stipulation to exclude regular ol' cliff/wharf/dock jumping into water (probably because 50' is near most recreational cliff jumpers' pain/safety limits).

The city council members' explicitly sought a tool to prosecute BASE jumpers following Jeb's case (the draft ordinance & legislative intent can be found here.

The law itself is NYC Administrative Code §10-167(b)(i). The ordinance's broad language also appears to prohibit bungee jumping and urban exploring.

The appellate ruling in Jeb's criminal case can be found here.

I would

I've jumped several objects that did not require any trespassing and are in areas that have no laws prohibiting jumping. I would still only jump these when nobody was around to see me. This will help the object to stay around longer. If people who don't understand it see me jump, then there's risk of burning the object. I wouldn't blame big brother for that, I'd blame myself.

I'm done. 100% out. Even if I was pro-fingerprint and they scrapped the fingerprint plan, it's not worth it from a business perspective as many jumpers have stated they won't return regardless. The event is toast.

We've already moved many BD assets from my storage unit and are sorting items into sale, garbage, and keep piles. Once I get all sale items photographed and uploaded to www.bridgeday.info, I'll put a link here if anyone can benefit from it. Perhaps the 16' long BD diving board would fit well under the Perrine railing?

Would we be required to submit other ID at the time of the scan? If the scans are walk up, nameless scans, they mean nothing from a storage standpoint since they would have no names attached to them, they would be as useful in future cases as fingerprints found on a subway stair hand rail in new york. If your name is already in the system then you have no reason to boycott the scan other than to show support for the community. Personally, the cops took my fingerprints 10 years ago with a digital scanner, other than supporting this community I have no real reason to boycott.

My only real worry is, How would the WVSP handle a failed scan? Will they give you the option to walk away? dispute the false reading, if it's in fact false? or will they hit you with a taser and wind up on one of those "crazed cop tases innocent hippie" videos on MeTube?

If the scans are nameless, I feel like they would in fact be less intrusive. If we are forced to provide an ID at the time of the scan i think its B.S. and will stand with the jumpers that have something to loose. My thoughts on a compromise, a nameless scan at the start of the jump line with a "walk away" policy. jumpers already have their badges and can choose to flip them over at this point. This method benefits both WVSP and jumpers in that, jumpers don't need to submit information for background checks, and police are scanning the people who are actually walking on the bridge with a bag . this prevents lost / stolen badge from being used by someone to gain unrestricted access.

Just throwing my thoughts into this. And so I'm clear... submitting ID with a scan = F.U. , I support the jumpers that still remain anonymous and criminal record free.

You have to show ID along with the fingerprint scan, per the Bridge Day Commission.

A name will pop up if the scan throws a red flag, if the scan is clean then they have no need for the name of an innocent person other than for storage purposes. If the scans are done as a pre-auth to gain access to the bridge I can see why they need to make sure the person being scanned is in fact the person standing in front of the scanner with a badge, but if the scan is being done on location at the bridge there's no need for ID to accompany a scan.

It seems like they rushed into this background check idea without actually thinking it threw rite from the start, has anyone actually laid the pros, cons, and actual effects of the different means to provide security? It's hard to dispute the effectiveness of bag checks / dogs especially when you compare them to something like a background check / finger scan done days in advance. knowing who is on your bridge with a back pack is a whole lot different than knowing whats in the bags. If security is really the primary focus of the BDC they would recognize this, seems like they have ulterior motives and are just using terror scare to mask that. See y'all in potatoville

Agree. If you are correct in that IDs should not be required to check prints vs. the terrorist database then the only reason for them to require IDs is to link prints to identities. The only reason to link prints to identities is to store them.

Also a good point that checking bags is more effective preventative measure than checking IDs. Anyone with clean prints could attack the bridge. Nobody with clean/dirty/non-existent prints could do anything if they can't get their bag through.

If their 'bag checks' are actually doing anything other than conditioning the masses to expect invasion of property and reduction of rights then I would be greatly surprised. Most years since 02 the bags checks have been a joke. It has consisted of an 'authority', who knows nothing about parachutes, or probably even bombs, look at the stash bag and possibly have you take it out of the bag. They might lay their hands on it as if they know what they are looking for and they might look at your jump pass but that is about it. As the day progresses, the 'checks' get more and more slack. If this BS was all about safety then I would think they would actually have a way to detect bombs instead of a show that gives the impression they are protecting the people/bridge.

The only time I have ever been finger printed was at the border to get into America. I had just flown over 14 hrs so the choice was get back on the plane or comply.
I was pissed off to say the least, no one informed me this was a requirement.
I thinks it pretty fucked that Americans are getting used to being fingerprinted.
Whatever happend to land of the free, home of the brave? Since 9/11 it's more like land of the police home of the pussies.
You might lose bridge day, it might be temporary if the point gets made and capitalism prevails. It might become permanently but fucking hell, at some point you have to make a stand. America used to be cool, what the fuck happened?

Move this shit to Mexico.

Or start doing events in Las Vegas like they've been doing in Malaysia. Money does talk and fingerprints and bullshit walks.

I'm sure this has been considered before, but it would be awesome if Stratosphere would be the American KL.

BOOM! My sentiments as well.

Lewis & Clark could never happen in today's US. No one would underwrite, indemnify, or hold harmless such a stupid, wasteful, self-indulgent escapade. I mean, why would anyone go exploring these days, when we OBVIOUSLY have all the knowledge you could possibly need on The Learning Channel (the network of "Say Yes To The Dress", if I'm not mistaken)? Just sit on your fat ass and let the world happen around you.

Fuck me. Now I'm depressed.

~ Chris (who is depressed)

In Twin Falls Idaho it is always Bridge Day 24 7 365. It should be that way on every fucking bridge I want to jump off. Fuck fingerprints and being babysat. What a great history for BASE. Ok here is one day out the 365, that's all you get now fuck off. I'm gonna go to bridge day just to take a shit on that bridge in front of everyone to show them what I think of bridge day.

If you were never given notice that fingerprinting was 'required' then that is a violation of due process. You have recourse but most don't want the hassle, they just give in and agree. Chances are though you were given notice in the super tiny fine print that was in the contract you agreed to when purchasing the ticket.

You ask what ever happened to the land of the free, home of the brave.... in my opinion it was traded away for the illusion of 'comfort, security and a better life'. It's still there only people don't want to give up those privileges/illusions that their babysitter government has bestowed upon them.

Most will say they didn't give up any freedoms to the government but they are woefully ignorant of the contractual agreements (and their consequences) that they have made that give all of those freedoms they claim to the government and that is why the government can and will walk all over those constitutional freedoms.... in essence they agreed to it.

edit to add: I am also of the opinion that if we just walk away from the Bridge Day issue then we are essentially agreeing with the BDC decision. A boycott is nothing more than tacit acquiescence. If no formal response is made that protects our rights then, in a legal sense, they have prevailed by our silent agreement.


“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement.”

― C.J. Redwine, Defiance

BOOM!
lets rename bridge day to earth day, and throw a BASE boogie every april 21st at copper canyon, mexico!!!!!!

VIVA EL GIGANTE!

You will have to hand over your ID or passport. Get in line, get scanned, wait for results, if you pass, you get your ID back and then go get your jump pass. That is how it was explained to me in the meeting last Wednesday. If you don't pass, they take you into custody right then and there.

I think it's too bad they didn't fingerscan all of the Marathin runners in Boston a couple of years ago. They could've prevented a terrible tragedy.

You get fingerprinted at passport control flying into Malaysia, at least as of Jan 2015.

I feel like a foreign governments decision to scan fingerprints at a border checkpoint is a lot more legitimized than boss hog scanning athletes at a birthday party for a bridge, especially when said bridge is in the self proclaimed "land of the free"

yes, this is true.

i just wanted to add however, it's not the act of fingerprinting itself that is invasive to me personally. it's the why, and how they will correlate your information with the prints.

when i throw a couple fingers up on the scanner to enter a foreign country, it associates me with my passport and as a tourist, along with every single other tourist, regardless of their baggage. the end.

if i scan in at bridge day, now i'm associated with not only bridge day, but BASE jumping, and whatever else they want to classify it as in a whole new database. that information may seem harmless to you, but it never ever goes away. regardless of what they tell you. i've been hunting bad people for most of my life. and that is exactly how these terrorist watchlist databases start. biometrics. you're not being watched, until you are. don't voluntarily give up information to anyone, ever. if they want to have my prints associated with BASE jumping or a trespassing crime, etc... they better fucking arrest me.

Exactly Blitz.

Plus when you get arrested 'right then and there' after your prints come back with a hit, you better be ready to give up that DNA sample.

I agree with the Blitzkrieg
Correct me if anything i state is not a possible outcome or unfeasible.

Here are my thoughts on why i don't like the fingerprints and will never attend a event in that requires it. In this day and age with all the technological advancements in smart phones, bio-metrics and facial recognition software how hard would it really be For NPS to obtain fingerprints background check data from another federal organization using some loophole in the law. Or They just have to slip some flash memory in the board of the check in kiosk somewhere or even have the troopers plug it in to a unsecured network on "accident". (red tape and black lines are two things our government is really good at using) Do we even know what company designed the id kiosk or software and who funded them? Do we know if there are any RFID transmitters built in? NO we dont know any of that, yet some people had no problem wanting to give there prints up to this device.
It would be super easy to get the data from the machine a number of different ways. The nps or whoever could then use that information to build a past, current, and continually updating database of all base jumpers who have been at bridge day. Granted they could build a database with information and pictures jumpers submitted in the past but then they would not have the fingerprint which is a very powerful piece of evidence. And not to mention collecting all the old physical data, converting it to digital format(ex typing it in, scanning pictures) and formatting it to work with a software system is a huge task.
I don't worry about The finger prints from a dmv or immigration database because that would be a nightmare to build a program to find query specific data from them(ex. basejumper) download that data and reformat it to work with another system created by different people who don't work on the same software.. Not to mention alot more ass kissing to get access to all the different databases. And why go though all that trouble when you can obtain all the info you need by showing up with a cheap government funded bio-metric kiosk built to organize data in a specific format and a cheap wifi router or RFID chip built in.
We have probably already been building their small database for years they just want to automate things and quit using the filing cabinet. If NPS can get their hands on a file like that they could have a program running on their network all the time. Any ranger could then have the ability to pull out a smart phone take your picture pulling into a park or walking a trail and instantly tell if your a base jumper. NPS makes alot of money on fine against jumpers so why would they want to miss out on making some money if they see someone who looks suspicious and fits the part. If the Ranger scans someone and they aren't in the data base they just have put the phone away and continue on. Its not really any science fiction or far off technologies needed to do this and obtain all the information the NPS needs. Its getting cheaper for everyone to use this kind of software so they are starting to do it.

Take this not so far off scenario that could happen to any jumper:

You are on a family vacation to Yellowstone looking at geysers one day and the facial recognition software on the server, that the cameras at old faithful visitor center is linked to, recognizes you and flags you as a basejumper, because you are in the basejumper database. Then the software sends a sms txt with your picture and fingerprints with a alert to every ranger in the park. The rangers then happen to spot you getting in your car. They walk up question you and see a Parachute! in your vehicle, (happens to be your skydiving rig) Then proceeded to detain you and search your vehicle because they have probable cause that you are conspiring to jump off something in the NPS borders. You might not get in any trouble but you will definitely have a long day at the ranger station proving its not a base rig they found. Call me a conspiracy theorist but i don't look at it like that. To me It is a pretty simple system they would have to design and implement. And the technology to build such system has been around for years. I wont let this happen to me.

All possible I'm sure.
But the first and most important step is getting people used to being finger printed, once that becomes the norm it wouldn't take long to reach the scenario you describe. Jebs already on board so will his millions of brain dead wuffo you tube followers no doubt.
The techniques have already been developed by advertisers and facebook to profile you.
Give your government you fingerprints, next its DNA.
Yes bridge day has a long history, so fucking what? Make new history somewhere else where you are wanted.
It would be pretty sad to make giving in to this bulshit a part of bridge day history.

"What? The land of the free? ...WHOEVER TOLD YOU THAT IS YOUR ENEMY!"

Hell yeah! It's time to Rage Against the Machine!!

I see this thread in a different light now after watching citizenfour:
http://full2moviezz.com/...atch-online-english/

Pop ups on that link look like they collect more data then the NSA!

no doubt that link will give you many viruses (like nesbitt's mom) but it's free (like nesbitt's mom)

I had a chat conversation with a friend that may be relevant to this discussion. Here is a copy paste account of it. I hope this translates to the readers as i have removed a lot of irrelevant parts.

Disclaimer: none of this is true. I made the whole thing up! My imagination gets the best of me sometimes! Jesus made me do it!


From a friend in the "Biz"


me:
whats your opinion on this http://m.register-herald.com/...fda36c.html?mode=jqm
then this? http://www.basejumper.com/...plications_1038.html

That guy in that place that Time:
I see the argument both ways
Why the new layer of security, and what does it matter?

Me:
exactly

That guy in that place that Time:
If you want to jump it, scan your finger
If you don't want to scan, don't jump

Me:
i could care less about finger printing me. im in the system but what i don’t want to be is in the system associated as a base jumper or a terrorist

That guy in that place that Time:
Lol
BASE jumping terrorists.
The next big thing
You visit BASE jumping forums? Post on BASE jumping sites? Register your email to participate in BASE jumping events? Purchase gear for BASE jumping with your credit card? Your already in the system associated with BASE jumping.

me:
the thing is that when i register for the event i sign an agreement that my personal info is destroyed after a background check. turns out that they keep it and give it to other agencies. why would i believe they would not keep my print on file?

That guy in that place that Time:
So what
Do Base jumpers get pulled over more often or something?
You guys get put in a different tax bracket?

me:
DO you Gov guys scrutinize suspected terrorist more?

That guy in that place that Time:
Lol
Absolutely

me:
i don’t want to be treated like a terrorist and thats what the WVSP are doing amongst other things.

That guy in that place that Time:
So don't go to West Virginia

me:
im not

That guy in that place that Time:
Can't drink the water anyway
Lol

That guy in that place that Time:
If you're concerned that they are going to "profile" you as a result of having participated in a BASE jumping event, I'm sorry to say you may have missed the mark
Whether you like it or not, you've already been profiled as it is

me:
the interesting thing is you sort of respond like the masses. bend over and take it. i guess because your involved in the fucking part but the issue is not so much with the process but the reason.

That guy in that place that Time:
Lol
If it was something that I was super passionate about, I'm sure I would feel more strongly about it
I understand that this must be super upsetting to you and the community you belong to
Here's the deal though: you are upset that the state police department is keeping a record of finger prints and associating that finger print with an event that only occurs in their region once a year
Why wouldn't they associate the finger print with BASE jumping?

That guy in that place that Time:
That is what correlates the finger print to why they are taking the print

me:
The wvsp does not get a list of our names. they get the Background search stuff but its not a list of our names (i hope). every year various agencies try to contact the organizer to get the list. we are labeled as criminals. period. no way in hell im going to associate my prints with that.
to be clear. i have no problem with google and facebook and nsa collecting my internet history and seeing what porn im watching. just ask and ill tell you to go check out lela star. she is hot. lol. but why scan my prints and not the 100,000 other people who access the bridge during the event?

That guy in that place that Time:
Shit man I don't know. I have to scan my print if I want to go in to Disney world. If I don't want to scan my print, I don't get to meet Goofey
If you don't want to get your finger scanned, don't go to bridge day

me:
i have no issue scanning for things like that or say my drivers license or entering the country.
the issue is targeted at a group.
can’t be good

That guy in that place that Time:
So go jump off of shit you're not supposed to jump off of
Lol

That guy in that place that Time:
And if you think a finger print is gonna Mark you more than all the other electronic exhaust you fill your immediate area with, your nuts
I would be less concerned with a state police department, who is regulated strictly, and more concerned with the fact that Google tracks everything you do, and is willing to sell it to whoever wants to buy it, because they are not strictly regulated


take it for what it is worth.

Some guy at some place in time: These taxes are ridiculous, especially coming from a government who treats us so poorly!

Some other guy at some place in time: Just don't drink any more tea then.

I'm not upset in the least about my prints being on file. They have had my prints for years for reasons good and bad in more countries than just the USA. What I object to is the un-neccessary escalation in "security" measures being imposed by a bunch of gun toting redneck cunts that happen to carry a Sherrifs badge. Bridge Day is not a cheap trip and I am done wasting my cash on a town where I no longer feel welcome.

I'm sure we are all aware of just how "strictly regulated" police in the US are these days.
Edit: Spelling.

If Bridge Day was a three day event, and the 450 jumpers could jump anytime they wanted for 72 hours, you would not have to wait to jump. If you do have to wait, I'm sure if wont be but just a few minutes. Yes, 450 jumpers showing up all at once for 6 hours is a wait.

That answers the question of how do you convince 450 jumpers to wait, give them all the time they want. Think about it, if you show up any other time of year, fest, or just great weather, you might have to wait then also, so I see no problem in 450 jumpers showing up for three or four days knowing the six hour window is, well, out the window.

 I hope I'm not stepping on any toes. This is my first post and I'll admit up front that I'm not a jumper and the reason for being here is strictly bridge day.

I'll just note that there are many of us that attend to simply watch that will be supporting the boycott. I'm glad this group has decided to boycott the event for the reasons noted. There isn't a lot of publicity yet but I believe it will get bigger as we get closer to the event. I'm 2 plus hours away (still in WV) but those I've talked to and those I know that do attend that know about this all say they will not attend.

Again, not wanting to butt in where I have little actually riding but I did want to note there is support for what you are doing outside of the community here.

I will just add that I would hope that if the board comes to it's senses that you would consider coming back. I fully understand though if not. It's always been a wonderful event and we know it's not this group that is ruining it.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

As Frank Bartles used to say.... "Thank you for your support"

I think you are stepping on the right toes, I think there will be much more to come....

Thanx

Joy

pknopp,


I think non-jumpers have more than a little riding on this topic, so I'm happy you've weighed in.

The jumpers are subject to fingerprinting.
The rappellers are subject to fingerprinting.
The local vendors are subject to fingerprinting.

So, one of two conclusions can be drawn from this:
1. Outdoor enthusiast and local entrepreneurship communities are breeding grounds for terrorist activity.

Or

2. The government is running roughshod over the privacy rights of any citizens it can reasonably lump into a group.

Awareness of this topic in the community is important.

~ Chris

Thank you for your input and support. We appreciate it!

i dont doubt the link between taking the fingerprint & using it nefariously ie linking to other lists & thus flagging you for further investigations, but your liberty is being compromised (locally & federally) unconstitutionally daily through your mobile phone/car/pc/multi media (pls google ed snowden for more info). the fingerprint issue really is minor in comparison (not saying that it still aint bad), i just hope everyone who is arguing against the bridge day fingerprinting is also expending at least as much energy in protesting about the many unconstitutional acts this & many previous govts (democrat or republic) have got away with.

Valid points all, but you gotta start somewhere and this is a high-profile place to make a stand that allows us with our small overall numbers to achieve a moment of relative superiority as it's known in spec ops circles.*


44

* See Bill McRaven's 1995 bookSpec Ops Case Studies in Special Operations Warfare: Theory and Practice for details, but here is the basic definition:

"Relative superiority is a condition that exists when a smaller attacking force gains a decisive advantage and control over a larger, defending enemy. Once relative superiority is achieved the attacking force is no longer at a disadvantage and has the initiative to exploit the enemy’s weakness and secure victory.”

Ha. That made me chuckle. I picture Khadija the terrorist granny funnel cake maker and her insidious plans. What a cunt.

agree, at the same time you may be raising awareness of such issues to people who hadnt really thought much about it, which can only be a good thing.

Twin falls exists. No alternatives to my cell phone exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_pigeon

completely irrelevant to my post, but cheers for clarifying that.

I think it hurts the Fayatteville community more than the base community. Every bridge day ad always shows base jumpers, people go to bridge day to see base jumpers, the media shows up to film base jumpers. The repercussions of no (or very few) base jumpers showing up will be a game changer.

As a side note: I also always got a kick how WE had to pay to jump there. It's like pilots paying to fly in an air show. WTFO?!?!

Right?!? After BASE jumping for almost free (traveling not included) legally in a lot of places, paying to wait in line to bust out a few jumps, I'm really not into that event anyways.

Does anyone remember that time back in the 90's when the NPS plucked three guys with outstanding warrants (I think all were in Yosemite) out of the line and jailed them? John Hoover was one of them. I won't name the others, but they were well known. One was extradited to California over it. The NPS has an ingrown hatred for BASE.

Up to that point we didn't know that the NPS had the list. So I'm curious:

Has the NPS been getting the list every year, or have you been able to fight them away? Do they try to get it?

Security? Really? It seems the more likely security problem would be all of the people on the bridge in a huge crowd.

My guess is that your fingerprints would go right into the NPS system, no matter what they said. If you got pulled over for a traffic violation in the valley and match up to a jumper, they are going to put you under hot lights within the hour, even if they can't pin you to a jump. They will still try. I saw this happen back then. Bridge Day just gave a name and address of most active jumpers in the world to them back then. It created quite a stir. If anyone remember more details, please fill in.

I say boycott them, unless they fingerprint everyone walking onto the bridge, into the crowd.

As I recall it Jean fought off the NPS's demand for a copy of the BD registration list ever since the NPS took over the LZ. When Jean left that position and Andy took over as BD organizer he gave the list to the NPS for the first time. And that was Andy's first and last year as organizer.

That year we also saw rangers photographing us to match up names and faces. And that BASE "mug" book, I'm sure, still resides in some rangers' desk in Yosemite.

NickD
BASE 194

Nick, I avoided naming names, specifically the "A" name.

Does anyone know if the NPS has been given the list since that year? Hoover was arrested on the Bridge because he hadn't paid his fines. It was hilarious, really. He lived and made his money beneath the radar, so he was fiscally untouchable.

He would try to turn himself in at the OKC federal prosecutors office now and then, willing to do time instead of paying the fine, which was huge, because a rescue was involved. The prosecutor's office would run his case down, see that it was about a misdemeanor charge, have a big laugh and then send him home. Whenever the office in Yosemite would call him, he would tell them that he had a mouth full of bad teeth that he needed fixing, and to please arrest him. Never happened. Outside of the valley, the federal court thought it was nigh a joke. They had bigger fish to fry than mess with a misdemeanor charge.

He used to tell it in his own unique style. It was hilarious.

edit: So has the NPS been getting the list of names since then? Is it part of the permit?

 

From Bridge Day 2002 to 2014, I gave nothing to the NPS. However, the one-time background check consisting of name, birthdate, and SSN was provided to the local Sheriff. I'm not sure if the Sheriff ever shared anything with the NPS.

I have two opinions on the topic that conflict with the two posts above:

1) The NPS list is pretty harmless, especially at New River. I'm willing to bet the list has been used sparingly, if at all in recent decades. You're more likely to get the old "we have photos of you jumping at 6am, so you should confess" line from the NPS, which is complete BS 99% of the time. A disgruntled former New River ranger called me a few years back and told me details of the list, which is locked in a safe and dusted off shortly before BD each year. I was also told the NPS tried to dig up dirt on me many years back, but their search found nothing. Regardless, New River NPS and BASE relations have never been better than they are now and my team got along great with them in the last five years or so.

2) Not every jumper is on Facebook, social media, or this forum. Privacy is still an issue with many.

Good that NPS and BASE are getting along. That is important.

this does not leave me feeling like I want to attend anything you are organizing.
my personal information should be protected.
since that's not high on your priority list, neither will be attending "the 6 hour shit show"

I was wondering what your stance was on the growing number of people that are thinking about showing up and protest/bandit jumping during the event. Will you assist in the arrest of your fellow jumpers?