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I know there has been some previous debate about the merits of the FOX xs vs the OSP, but I am still intrigued by the FOX xs. Given the popularity and qualities of the OSP and its greater utility, what exactly is the FOX xs's niche within BASE? Does APEX actually sell many of these canopies? I only know of one jumper who has one, but haven't been able to get a comparison between it and the OSP (he has both). Is the FOX xs really just a docile FOX with HTS, five oversized vents and a shorter line set? How does it justify its inflated retail price?

Keen to get some response on this one. I own two OSPs and love them, but I'm always open to considering different canopies.

What kind of jumping do you intend to do with the XS? I don't think that the benefits of the XS are relevant to the vast majority of jumpers. If you're into free falling 50m, then you could benefit from the larger vents, zp and short lines.

It would be PCA/DB from about 37-78m and HH above that. I'm no low freefall wizard. Are you suggesting that the FOX xs's niche is low freefall only? OSPs are jumped freefall from 50m (but not by me!) and I'm sure other canopies have been too.

Iv'e personally seen a Fox xs direct bagged from 95' over ground. Jumper had a slight off heading and still (sorta) stood it up! The guy was a very experienced low alti jumper- but I was still pretty impressed by how well everything worked.

I bought an XS last year and I've jumped both. I think that the XS inflates and starts flying faster than the OSP, but OSPs have a much better deep brake approach. When you're doing low freefall, there's a lot a variables that impact opening height/speed.

Any modern (vented) canopy should be fine handheld down to 70m and static line down to 30m (if you're skilled/current enough to do the jump). I saw a Flik UL with 3/5 vents static line from 40m without any issue...

On a jump that low do you even have time to flare/unstow the toggles? Do you flare on rear risers?

I almost feel like it would be best to use a shallower brake setting for more forward speed and a stronger flare. Would a shallower brake setting also decrease time to inflation and time to flight?

It's my understanding that that's one good method but only if you're ok with the extra forward speed in the incredibly low chance of a severe off-heading. If I'm jumping in perfect winds (or especially direct bag) I'd probably pack shallow brakes. But only because I wanna be cool and stand up the landing and not be safe and just PLF


Just out of curiousity, does anyone know if the fox xs factory DBS is similar to the flik/fox? Does it use a shorter line set like the OSP?

The factory DBS on my XS were a little too shallow for me at first, I had a couple interesting jumps dialing them in. The difference between shallow and deep brake settings for opening speed is minimal, given that the XS starts flying quickly.

I prefer the DBS and I use them for every XS jump now that I have them dialed. My lowest freefall is 45m, at that height a mediocre jumper can unstow brakes (this is an overlooked but super-critical and easy to fuck up step), turn 90 degrees, fly for few seconds, and flare with the toggles.

For low jumps, things like improperly unstowed brakes or pilot chute techniques can effect your opening a lot more than the differences between the OSP/XS or your brake setting.

Some interesting and relevant input, thanks. With regards to the point about the OSP's superior deep brake flight characteristics, I'm sure this is where its slat system and mini stabilizers come into play. Have you freefalled your OSP as low as the xs? And did you go one up in size when ordering a canopy specifically for low jumps? I've encountered a number of jumpers who would normally jump say a 240 at 0.7, who jump a 260 for low jumps with sketchy approaches and LZs requiring deep brakes.

The message seems to be that the xs is more of a very low freefall tool - as was its original conception.

For low assisted deployment, found this on vimeo:

http://vimeo.com/59889495

I don't own an OSP so I've only jumped it a couple times (I do own Trolls though). The XS isn't as good at the deep brake approaches (you can still stand it up coming straight down) but it is designed for low jumps and I don't think it's a popular wingsuit canopy like the OSP is.

I'm usually the guy jumping a bigger canopy, but I ordered a size smaller for my XS.

That video was great to see all the factors that can effect opening. Static line, exit, and control techniques can each ripple down throughout the jump.

edit: Here a couple old (but still relevant) articles on low jumps. Take internet advice with a grain of salt. The short-bridle, large PC pre-inflation technique can be awesome and open as high as a static line deployment but it will result in the worst PC hesitation imaginable if you screw it up.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the xs was originally a one off requested by the late Ralph greenway who's low Freefall and static line exploits are legendary, static lining the az tunnel to name one. I don't think that it was particularly marketed heavily and is more of a canopy that you know about and seek out if you're into super low jumps. I always think of the osp and blackjack being in the same class with the xs being an extreme. RIP Ralph.

Thanks, I read these a while back. Don't think ultra low freefall will ever be my thing, but from a technical point of view, these articles are educational.

I'm aware of the history of the FOX xs and regard it as a great loss that I never met Ralph, a BASE legend and low freefall pioneer.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone else who makes low freefall jumps and what canopy they use. I spoke to James Y. in TF a few months ago and he had some very articulate thoughts on low freefall, as well as a "Franken-PC" he had designed for such jumps.

I don't know what you consider low, but I routinely Freefall 200 ft with both my blackjack and vented seven and have gone as low as 170 with my blackjack without much issue. I kind of set my Freefall limit at 200 a couple years ago though. Static line I will do anything 120 or above with the blackjack and have taken it to 97 ft over ground at 7k altitude, but I probably wouldn't do that jump again.

I lasered it at 104, and its at 5900 ft not 7. Man you really are trying to inflate your conquests.

I have not freefallen anywhere near 200'. My lowest jumps have been assisted deployments in the 130'-150' range, on standard vented canopies (a FOX 4/7 and a Mayhem 3/7). The goal is to do more assisted deployment jumps down to 100' and I was wondering whether the FOX xs might be more precisely the tool for the job, given that these are still fairly specialized descents.

I'm no expert but there was a good discussion here about wing-loading and pressurisation (generally, with the same WL, the smaller canopy will pressurise higher)

http://www.basejumper.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Great thread, thanks. Confirms my own thoughts. My canopies put me in the 0.7 to 0.65 range, which is my comfort zone, and provides some choice when assessing an object and choosing the right rig for the jump.

I know You don't own a laser. 32 yards to my lz. How come you didn't jump it with your fox?

I have some FlySight data from a few static line jumps with my regular old vented Troll and my maximum vertical speed was 45ft below the exit point.

I haven't done the same thing with an OSP, but I'm sure it's a few feet sooner. If you use a direct bag instead of static line, you get back a few more feet that it would have taken to get to bridle stretch. I'm not sure how much sooner you could ask for. You're almost getting down into the parachute-optional heights depending on your landing surface.

I'm sure you're right. And I've jumped a DB (I have one). The issue isn't really the speed of the opening - my current canopies open pretty damn quick from a good line stretch PCA - it's whether the FOX xs, after a quick opening and transition to flying wing, has enhanced flight/deep brake/flare characteristics that warrant its purchase price. From the input provided to date, it would seem that its opening characteristics/transition to flying wing are the main selling points. Please chime in if there's anything to add.

I've seen the video of Ralph SL'ing the Perris tunnel (something like 77' from the SL anchor to the asphalt). I wasn't aware of him jumping the AZ tunnel. Can anybody in Eloy confirm that?!

I got to spend some quality time rebuilding Ralph's original modified Fox that became the XS after he shredded a few cells in a wall strike in BC this time last year. IIRC mods were ~10% shorter lines, 250% vents across five cells, full ZP topskin, and a four line multi that we modified to equalize the spanwise attachments to try to cut down on the tendency to cross load the risers in Xwind deployments. Also, I believe he told me that Apex said not to take a delay much over 1 sec on that canopy.
I did a number of low freefalls with Ralph in the 145-200' catagory and have some good pics and video of it's performance somewhere. The mods made the pressurization absolutely instant. The full ZP topskin really cracked open and the sound alone was noticeably louder than anything else. Once the canopy was flying, it handled very similar to a regular Fox. I have seen Ralph FF 150' and stand it up on risers without popping toggles, though he probably could've popped toggles and gotten to about 80% full flight before flaring too.

I think that the standard OSP doesn't inflate and pressurize quite as fast as the XS, but it is controllable and stand-up landable sooner after deployment because of the slat design and stabilizers. I think that enlarging the vents on the OSP would bring the pressurization to equal the XS without compromising any of the fantastic slow flight characteristics.

Ralph is/was a one of a kind mix of crazy and brilliant. I hope that his legend lives on. [Edit: I attached a pic of the last object we opened together, the Millennium Falcon in Moab.]

Im sure youre right and I probably just got my tunnels confused :)

Last time I was with Ralph we were jumping a rather large canyon in the southwest, and he was using it as "training" and hiking about 1.5 hours faster than me out. He was a really amazing guy.

Thought I'd resurrect this thread to provide an update on the FOX xs. I bought a secondhand FOX xs 245 with about 100 jumps on it; it has the ZP topskin on the leading edge, five oversized vents, a short line-set and one brake setting. I load it at about .7. To date I've jumped it mostly in the sub-300s to sub-200s, so not particularly low - but the intention is to get familiarized with the canopy before taking it to 150' and below. I've stuffed it in an old Vision container. Deployments have been either PCA or handheld. Objects: two cliffs, two buildings, one pylon and one crane. One of the buildings was particularly useful as I could jump from a selection of exit points at different altitudes.

Performance:

I've jumped FOXes before, and this handles like a FOX: docile and manageable. It has four upper control lines. Flare is good. It's not quite as stable in flight as my OSPs and neither does it have the same deep brake flight characteristics or flare, but then it lacks the slat system and mini-stabilizers. One thing that is noticeable - supported by video - is that it opens fast, faster than the OSP, and begins flying quickly. It does not have multi.

I jumped this canopy several times at a recent crane event along with my OSP 245 and OSP 225. Conditions were windy and for some reason which I haven't quite been able to figure out, I felt more comfortable under the FOX xs for most of the jumps.

If I could get Atair to make an OSP with five oversized vents that would probably be my ideal canopy for the low altitude environment, but when I asked, they said they'd have to test the concept first; perhaps this was a gentle way of saying no.

Anyway, although this is hardly the latest in BASE canopy design, I feel there is still both value and mileage in the FOX xs. Just my two cents.

Well I'd expect a Fox XS 245 to open faster than an OSP 245 because the OSP 245 is a size bigger... so it has more canopy to open and is heavier to pull to line-stretch.

A smaller wing may open faster, but a larger wing FLIES faster.

Really ?

This is entirely wrong.
Your statement is basically stating that a 265q/ft canopy flies FASTER than a 180 sq/ft canopy?

Opening speeds are dependent on other factors than sq/ft of the canopy.
PC size
Vents? How many, How big?
ZP? leading edge?
Reefing? none? or some? how much?
Jumpers speed at time of deployment?

Jumping a 200 is gonna be a shit ton faster flying speed if you weight 150 lbs vs. flying a 265.

I think you're misunderstanding the point he is making.

There are two phases here. The canopy opens and it is moving downward for a short period if you are heavy and it is small and it slowly starts flying forward. This is a canopy that STARTS TO FLY slower. The speed at which it flies is faster, yes. But it takes longer for a smaller canopy to overcome the downward force of the jumper to start moving forward.