Basejumper.com - archive

http://www.rockandice.com/...clif-bar-for-soloing

Your food tastes like wild animal shit anyway.

Thoughts?

thanks for the info good to know who not to buy products from

btw coming your way soon hope we get to make a jump this time

Absolutely 100% taste like wild animal shit! Good assessment. I believe all the people over at Clif Bar are pUssIes. tHey CAnt SOlo oR bASe juMP! fUcKTArd pUssy biG!

Yes!

My thoughts are that you should stop eating wild animal shit and if you actually care about nutrition and health you shouldn't be eating these things anyway.

Just looking at one bar at random the ingredients don't lie.... and no, just because it says 'organic' or 'all natural' doesn't make them healthy

Organic Brown Rice Syrup (concentrated sugar that spikes insulin and blood sugar among other things which is a huge health concern not to mention brown rice syrup has been found to have high levels of arsenic), ClifPro® (Soy Rice Crisps [Soy Protein Isolate, Rice Flour, Barley Malt Extract], Organic Roasted Soybeans, Organic Soy Flour), (soy products are estrogenic and mess with testosterone levels in men) Organic Rolled Oats, ClifCrunch® (Apple Fiber, Organic Oat Fiber, Organic Milled Flaxseed, Inulin [Chicory Extract], Organic Psyllium), Almonds, Organic Cane Syrup( sugar ), Dried Cherries, Soy White Chocolate (Organic Dried Cane Syrup (sugar), Cocoa Butter‡, Soy Flour, Soy Lecithin, Organic Vanilla Extract), Organic Fig Paste, Almond Butter, Natural Flavors (this could mean anything natural such as castoreum which is from the anal/scent glands of beavers(it's natural and apparently taste like raspberriesl!)) , Sea Salt, Citric Acid, Natural Vitamin E (Antioxidant)

how did you get my chili recipe ;-)
tcs

this will be an easy transition for me. i have weak ass, fucked up teeth from the accident we were discussing, and its difficult for me to chew clif bars already, so ill go ahead and eliminate them from my diet altogether.

Are your teeth messed up from all the sssailors making love to your face too passionately? Terrible accident. Heal well my friend.

The cool thing about this is that in the US, to do something normal like climbing and base jumping, you are a outlaw and hippie. In Switzerland we do not get this cool status for doing things like this, it is normal here. It is part of our culture to move around in the mountains and we don't get the privilege to get discriminated and put into a rebel status for doing this...

Sometimes (most times) I'm really glad I'm not from Merica, the free world :-)

Not really the case, but its interesting that we are perceived that way across the pond.

Well... at least they fire their athletes BEFORE they die. In contrast to some other company that just deletes dead people from their website/sponsored list.

Are they supposed to keep sponsoring them after they are dead?

One thing I am really curious about is if anyone was actually fired, or if their contracts were simply not renewed.

An agreement is only as solid as the contract. And if the contract is over, it is over. No wrong doing exists by not renewing. You have made no promises which you are not keeping.

But the article implies a reason for "firing" or "not renewing" whatever it may be; and it's the provided reason that I disagree with, the the action in itself.

What exactly is the reason? Does the release of Valley Uprising actually have anything to do with it? This is the course of events as I understand them from the article:

1. Valley Uprising, sponsored by Clif Bar, portrays BASE jumpers, soloists, and slackliners as rebels

2. Clif Bar drops sponsored BASE jumpers, soloists, and slackliners because they are considered rebelious

If Clif Bar didn't support the activities these people were engaged in, why were they sponsored in the first place? Was there a change in leadership? I'm just really confused about how the release of that film has anything to do with it. Is it just something that they thought was worth mentioning and doesn't actually have to do with why they were dropped?

Here is an email I received after I sent an email telling them it was stupid and they were no different than the spineless companies that don't want to offend someone by saying Merry Christmas...



Hi Alan,



We sincerely appreciate your email.



Climbing has been a part of our company’s DNA from the beginning. Over the years, we’ve watched the progression of free-soloing, B.A.S.E. jumping and high-lining push boundaries, and take the element of risk to a place where we as a company are no longer willing to go. We understand that some climbers feel these forms of climbing are pushing the sport to new frontiers. But we no longer feel good about benefitting from the amount of risk certain athletes are taking in areas of the sport where there is no margin for error; where there is little to no safety net.

As such, going forward we will not be sponsoring climbers who are primarily recognized for free-soloing, B.A.S.E. jumping and high-lining. This change in sponsorship approach did not come quickly or without great debate.



Ultimately, the decision came down to a sense of responsibility to our own story, what we endorse and the activities that we encourage – which is largely reflected in our sponsorship of athletes. This responsibility extends to adventurers of all types - climbers, outdoor enthusiasts, as well as children.

We have and always will support athletes in many adventure-based sports, including climbing. Inherent in the idea of adventure is risk. We appreciate that assessing risk is a gray area, and individual athletes make their own decisions. This is a line that we have drawn for ourselves. We recognize that this discussion will continually evolve within our company and within the greater climbing community. But we felt a need to start somewhere and start now.



Thank you again for your thoughtful email,



Emily Zisman

Clif Bar & Company

800-884-5254 ext 6305

"But we no longer feel good about benefiting from the amount of risk certain athletes are taking in areas of the sport where there is no margin for error; where there is little to no safety net."

I think this is a reasonable stance for a company to take. It also makes me think about EpicTV, which is the poster child for sponsors helping athletes take significant risks for company profit.

If your position is that EpicTV sponsorship is negative for BASE jumping, then I think you have to stand behind Clif Bar's decision here. To me, it sounds hypocritical to say that one company is taking advantage of jumpers by putting them in high-risk situations, and another company is letting jumpers down by not supporting high-risk situations.

I can respect this to a degree. However, they as a company, are extremely ignorant to what they are identifying as "no safety net". I would argue BASE jumping as a sport is as safe as it's ever been. The wingsuits are designed meticulously and there are resources out there to use them safely. The consistency of openings and reduction of malfunctions is better than ever. Modern wingsuits essentially turn any big wall into a skydive with the pull altitude achievable.

Yet, we are dying in record numbers. Simply because of the human element, not the sport, or the gear.

I think the proper route for Clif bar to go would be to push athletes (BASE and high lining etc) to develop NEW projects instead of high risk in your face stuff. There are plenty of them out there. To outright blanket ban their support of the sport is a tragic case of some ignorant people making decisions.

I find it refreshing.

"However, they as a company, are extremely ignorant to what they are identifying as "no safety net". I would argue BASE jumping as a sport is as safe as it's ever been...

Yet, we are dying in record numbers. Simply because of the human element, not the sport, or the gear."

This brings up an interesting point. I agree that the sport is as safe as it's ever been. If there were ever a time in history where it was actually a sponsor-able endeavor for a mainstream corporation, this is it. The only thing that makes it not sponsor-able is our behavior. Not only in taking too much risk, too soon, and in too loud a fashion...but also just from a general ethics sense. Breaking rules, being bad guests in foreign locations, etc. BASE jumpers, ironically enough, are only obstacle to BASE becoming an accepted activity to the media, sponsors, NPS, etc.

My point here is that we're quick to say, "Clif Bar is ignorant about BASE jumping." But we should also consider that Clif Bar's perception of BASE jumping is a direct result of what we're projecting. They (and everyone) are only reading what we ourselves are writing.

"I think the proper route for Clif bar to go would be to push athletes (BASE and high lining etc) to develop NEW projects instead of high risk in your face stuff. There are plenty of them out there. To outright blanket ban their support of the sport is a tragic case of some ignorant people making decisions."

Totally agree. They could have only stamped their name on safer, but equally cool projects. Ascent/descents of new sites, highest, longest, fastest, etc. You get the gist. But again I would point out that their ignorance isn't just a result of them being unwilling to learn/listen (though that may be part of it)...I think it's also a result of what we're putting out there for the world to see.

You are 100% right on BASE jumpers and our egos being our own worst enemies. That has proved itself time and time again in Switzerland.

However, it's important to note that what "we" are putting out there has such a small number of viewers compared to what is put out there of us by others (the media). The media single handedly profits off BASE jumpers more than we could ever hope to contract for. With their daredevil, thrill-seeking, adrenaline junky catchy edge titles, people read those stories. People read them much more than they care to investigate into our community for themselves. That's why you have so many people that have never seen, met or experienced a BASE jump condemning what we are about. Read the comments section of any BASE jumping death in the US. It's littered with ignorant (I am using ignorant a lot because it perfectly nails the total lack of exposure/knowledge as to what these people are condemning) comments about things people know nothing about.

So it is my opinion (not fact checked) that Clif bar saw this majority of negative opinion and sought to conform to the mold of normality. They will end up being just another one of those "safe" corporations where they will market "innovation" with their words, but not actually with their actions.

I think it's sad that they don't weigh in on any individual discretion. They simply took 3 categories of people and outright generalized them to be unsafe with "little to no margin for error and no safety net".

Great perspectives.

So it is my opinion (not fact checked) that Clif bar saw this majority of negative opinion and sought to conform to the mold of normality. They will end up being just another one of those "safe" corporations where they will market "innovation" with their words, but not actually with their actions.

Ah, very interesting. I was actually taking the company at their word, which was:

"We feel bad for profiting off of these people and don't want to facilitate their risky behavior."

Maybe that was naive. Perhaps the real motivation for dropping these guys was:

"People think these guys are stupid adrenaline junkies, so let's drop them before they hurt our corporate image."

The latter actually sounds like more of a business decision than the former.

At the end of the day, Clif Bar is a company. The mandate of any company is to generate profit. Innovation, pushing forward, supporting progress...these are all secondary, and usually only come about when there is also a profit to be had. So it makes sense that Clif Bar would drop these athletes if they felt that the risk to their bottom line was too great. Maybe we were lucky to have them providing sponsorships for any period of time at all. I think your point that Clif is being disingenuous as to why these guys were dropped is probably dead on.

The best way to progress the sport of BASE jumping is through coordinated non-profit efforts, such as the effort (I believe) you're supporting to advance our status with the NPS. For-profit corporations can be a nice secondary strategy, but we can't lose sight of the fact that we're tools in their belt, not the other way around.

Thank you for all of your efforts on the non-profit side. I'm sure it's hard work and I know it doesn't pay well, at least financially. But it's greatly appreciated.