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I would like to start off by saying in no way can I confirm that what I'm about to ask has any shred of truth to it.

I have heard from a jumper that was at bridge day 2014 that in 2015 jumpers will need to get finger printed before they can jump? I don't know this jumper very well and it was said in passing in a conversation. I was just wondering if this was right out to lunch or not?

I already sent them a stool sample.

Jason's contract ended this year for Bridge day.
Cops are refusing to allow another contract unless they can fingerprint, and give everyone (including repellers) a background check for warrents and what not.
Jason said fuck you.
Currently at stalemate.
3 options:
1. No Bridge Day 2015
2. Bridge Day 2015 + fingerprinting because you're all fucking criminals ;p
3. Cops give in and allow a few more years without hassling us.

My money is on 3. They don't want to lose their biggest attraction.

Jason pulled out his video camera and panned around the room full of BASE jumpers and asked for a show of hands of those who would attend BD15 if they had to fingerprint everyone. I think one person raised their hand. Then he asked who would not attend BD15 if they had to be fingerprinted. Everyone raised their hands, flipping off the camera and yelling fingerprint this!

It was great! Jason is goin to take the video to the Bridge Day Commission and show them. I would think that if we didn't show up for BD1 because of this and Fayetteville an the thousands of visitors, who come to see the jumping, was informed as to why, it would cause a shot storm. Look at what the Holiday Inn(Lodge) did. They caused us to leave and the next year, they realized why a mistake it was.

I would love to boycot BD15 and get a booth and let everyone know why we aren't jumping. We could have phone numbers and email addresses for the WV State Police and the NPS for everyone to voice their oppinions.

Option 4: Bridge Day on the west coast in Auburn. =)

+10

there would probably be a significant increase in injuries if they held it at auburn without requiring a certain XX number of jumps. its not technical, but its certainly not a first object or something for someone straight out of their FJC, IMHO

arent there alot of noobs and people with only perrine jumps that attend BD WV every year?

oh and this is strictly through obversation/word of mouth, ive only gone jogging and riding my mountain bike around it, but i could imagine!

Its a long shot. But this bridge has a great landing area and a secondary travel route for travel. But the hoover dam bypass bridge has a great landing area and great potential. Now to convince the authorities that we wony blow up the dam... and in not sure eatery landings would be an option due to the dam current.

Fuck a bridge, lets find a 2000' antenna with an elevator!

It was my first object in 2000. To this day, I still can't figure out how a person, even with the minimal amount of canopy skills, can fuck this one up. But, then again, looking at the quality of jumpers in the scene, you are probably right.

PS. It would be a cold day in hell before anyone is finger printing me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MScpvK7Tqc

Tougher restrictions on who could jump would be bad how? It's a public demonstration, regulate the shit out of it so we aren't a total shit show.

After just watching BD 14 on live stream, it's obvious for auburn to happen that there MUST be more regulating prior! I know it's in the works but not to what extent they will regulate I think is still up in the air! For the lack of accuracy and numerous water landings at BD Auburn will have to be approached differently. The city and the rangers want to make it happen, it's up to us to not fuck it up!

I'm all for boycotting bridge Day but I have to wonder why we as a group didn't raise more of a stink about the other 'security' checks when they wanted to implemented them.

It'll be interesting to see what it comes down to and if we can stick together for a higher cause or give in to their 'requests'.

This is interesting. But if there are 2 Bridge Days a year, I feel like they wouldn't have near as good of a turn out. The west coasters would wait for the west coast BD and the east coast wait for the east coast BD.

Who knows.

not a bad thing at all, i agree hence bringing it up

in all reality, we can all argue till were blue in the face about a certain national park on a certain coast with a certain GIANT object, about why/how/ blah blah blah theyll never open it up.............if by some strange miracle they did, do you know how many idiots would come FUCK that shit up, and end up strung up in 80 foot trees in front of park tourists on a regular basis? how long would that last without serious regulation?

regulation is key

they would need to regulate the shit out of auburn so that we could keep it happenin every year.

and i swear if it happens next year i will be there, and if its invite only, im gonna blackmail some of my norcal friends!

hah!

I had a heart to heart with Jason over a beer that evening. He gave me the impression that the staties and the BD commission weren't going to give in on this one. They're really set on fingerprinting us.

My gut tells me BD15 will be a huge bust, the town will be pissed, BD16 will be back to normal.

.....fuck it, Turkey Boogie everyone, TO MOAB! BEER, BASE, BOOBS, and BBQ!!!.....and MORMONS!

Who was the one guy? did he know there was a 2nd option coming?


Maybe one of you muricans can explain this to me... you can get a gun with out fingerprints, but you can't put yourself at risk to help other people make money and have a bit of fun yourself without fingerprints (it would be preferred if you could use a deep south accent when explaining this to us Canadians)

I know...I know....It's embarrassing dude. It really is. Politicians in our country eat paint chips. Lead paint chips. They just gobble them up dude.

That reply just made my day and my sig!

Nice! What kind of Sig? I just got a new 227. Love it. I'm a big fan of Sig.

Love my P238!

want a 229 pretty bad anyone want to trade for my glock?
Ill through in a fee pilot chute

Maybe it was a foreigner from a country where they need to give fingerprints for their passports and they figured the US government already has their fingerprints so no harm in giving it again?

I was there and did not raise my hand but honestly guys - how many of you have outstanding warrants out there? How many of you have already been finger printed at some point- I know I have, so whAts it matter to me to give them up yet again?

it's a matter of principle.

i've worked for the government my entire adult life. i've been fingerprinted, investigated, polygraphed, electrocuted... etc

... but, FUCK them. it serves NO purpose. if it's not a genuine security or safety concern, which it cannot be since they're not fingerprinting the other 100,000 people walking the bridge, it's completely ridiculous.

sure as shit i wouldn't waste my time on the friday before standing in a line to GET fingerprinted...

You have a right to freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures.

You have the assumption of innocence until proven guilty.

In this case, no crime has even occurred yet, and you are being asked to submit to a search of your person, and a seizure of your liberty, and an ex-post-facto search for your guilt (i.e. now that they have your fingerprints, why not run those through a backlog of unsolved crimes?).

Every time you consider one of these infringements on your liberty "no big deal", you give away some of your liberty.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" ~ Benjamin Franklin.

We've given so much power to our police forces that they have now, as an example, enforced no-knock search warrants to find out who tweeted a political tweet. Not a potential terrorist tweet, mind you, a simple political tweet resulted in a no-knock SWAT assault on somebody's home.

Our government and its agencies do not need more information on us; they need less. We need more information on our government, and what it is up to.

You know the National Park Service will put all of these prints in a data base for furtherering their own regime. As well as the West Virginia State Police.

Yes, I have been fingerprinted in the past for the military, law enforcement, carry permit, background checks for my job. I have never been in trouble with the law, and hope to keep it that way. It probably won't stay that way the more I jump, but I know for a fact that you do not need finger prints to check someone for warrants. There is this thing called NCIC, all they have to do is plug in our name and SSN, which is what I thought they were doing to begin with.

I say bully!

The great people of Twin Falls need our money more than the people of Fayett-nam!

I say let BD15 be a bust and we let everyone know who is responsible for it!!!!!

... is having a SSN now going to be a requirement? I know some Ausies that might be somewhat pissed...

I will never be fingerprinted to make a BASE jump and I definitely won't be the BASE organizer of an event that requires it. It's unnecessary, it's invasive, and it's profiling. Some will say it's their event and they can set the rules, but we can also go elsewhere to jump.

Over the last 13 years, many things that affected BASE jumpers at Bridge Day have been kept in the dark. There was no need to bring them to everyone's attention as some battles are best fought behind the scenes without bringing in soldiers to help. Well, the fingerprinting battle is an exception. I feel that we need to be proactive by informing every jumper and telling the Bridge Day Commission to never try to fingerprint us again. Not sure what they'll decide, but they definitely know where we stand.

I may have cut my own throat in order to keep Bridge Day fingerprint-free, but it will be worth it in the end. I'll keep you all informed. Should know the verdict soon.

Thumbs-up to you, Jason. Seriously.
I hate to see this thing you've worked so hard for die, but I respect you for the hill you've chosen to charge.

~ Chris

I stand with you!
Is there anyone we can call/e-mail to voice our displeasure?

+1

Jason has done a tremendous job over the past 13 years as the BD organizer. Thank you.

If he chooses not to sign a contract for the 2015 BD then some other base jumper or Red Bull will.

I will not be attending BD if fingerprinting is required.

Many base jumpers will attend. Base jumpers will not stick together. We do not call the locals, we burn each others sites, and we still jump off the rail at the Perrine.

What would a base jumper do to be a Red Bull athlete for a day?

While everyone is bitching about being fingerprinted... the six guys that don’t give a fuck will be doing laps

Right On. This intentional chilling effect the authorities have tried on us goes way back to when the NPS bought John Dragon's land under the bridge and began to exercise control. Every since then, in the mid 80's, they tried to insist on Photo ID's. The USBA, through Jean Boenish, basically told them NO. They pushed it till 91 when a certain person named Andy, promised a girl on the bridge day commission he would agree to ID's if he could run B Day. I flew up from Miami on one days notice to a Commission hearing to keep them from handing it over to Andy that year. Next year, we said to hell with it and he got it and Photo ID's followed. So did 3 NPS busts that year while jumpers were identified and pulled out of line for warrants.
Fingerprints is just another case of overstepping both their authority and their best interests. Rafting didn't make this place nationally famous. Even though they already get photo ID's, jumpers need to take a stand. Jumping on Bridge Day is legally authorized by a special State law allowing it. Where is their authority to fingerprint for performing a legal act for which permits are already required. If jumpers lay down, it just encourages other police departments to push their enforcement beyond constitutional limits and they know it. I have no doubt a boycott won't fully work, especially in the days of big sponsors, but the W.VA local politicians need to know that they may be damaging the economy of the entire area for no good reason at all and it's just plain wrong.

Nobody cares if you jump from the rail, I thought that was common knowledge.

$3500 for water rescue, $2500 for NPS permits, $2200 for insurance, and $15/jumper paid to the BD Commission will ensure that no logical person would want to organize the event or pay high fees to make a jump. Six guys, or even 60 guys won't fund the event. Any BASE organizer will need hundreds of willing jumpers to simply break even.

i would go... but first i would chemically burn off my fingerprints except for little scars that said
F-U-C-K-Y-O-U-!

ok who else is hardcore enough to do that with me

(dont worry, fingerprints grow back. i learned that from a movie somewhere)

what we need to do is start a BASE event somewhere else in the country and hold it on the same day. then the party would keep going for us and the BD people would learn fast. You would think it would be a prime time to do it with few base jumpers wanting to go to BD. A town could jump on it and make a lot of money! Then if everything gets worked out we could just hold the events on different days the next year and BOOM we have to base events in the USA a year!!!!

and by "We" I mean you

Still waiting for a e-mail address to send hate mail to

I'm working on providing the Bridge Day Commission contact for fingerprinting. Stay tuned. I appreciate your support.

I'll accept being fingerprinted if we can have year round legal access to the bridge ;p

boycott

The Bridge Day Commission reports that they have not implemented a fingerprinting policy, so there is no one to contact regarding this issue. It's worth mentioning that the head of the Bridge Day Commission also works at the Chamber of Commerce and she is a good person. If I remember correctly, the State Police are the driving force behind this.

I see three scenarios in this battle:

1) I could have never brought up the fingerprinting issue with jumpers until the BD Commission (State Police) imposed it on us. Then it would be tough to get it off the books.
2) We are proactive and let them know Bridge Day 2015 won't have any jumpers if fingerprinting is a go. They decide to implement it anyway.
3) We are proactive and let them know Bridge Day 2015 won't have any jumpers if fingerprinting is a go. They take our feedback and decide fingerprinting will only cause harm to the event.

My money is on #3. However, I wonder what the rappellers think of this issue, especially seeing that the rappelling coordinator has told me he is OK with fingerprinting.

Is that how they count to two where you are from :-)

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" ~ Benjamin Franklin.

Two......ish scenarios, which actually means three.

Amen. While on my deployments to Afghanistan, we would enroll random Afghans into our Biometric system (BATS/HiDES) along with the other types. We did that because we were trying to find the enemy.

I'm not the enemy.

They can take their fingerprints and shove it.

 I'm pretty sure the phone rings regularly at NPS Bridge HQ and on the line is NPS Yosemite HQ and the conversation is always the same. “Hey, WTF are you guys doing out there in West Virginia? How come you haven't figured out a way to shut that frigging BASE jumping down yet?”

So it makes sense the NPS would make a bold move as Jason's tenure ends. He's too strong a presence and a great leader that for 13 years held the NPS at bay. (BASE Hall of Fame for Jason if we ever build one.) But in the vacuum between Jason and the next organizer the NPS sees opportunity. And so should we. The NPS is wishing for another Andy type and maybe some disruptive infighting.

But what should we be wishing for? I think this is about more than just Bridge Day.

Jumping in Yosemite has been on the back burner for quite sometime now but the pot still simmers in both NPS and BASE camps. And while the NPS certainly doesn’t want year round jumping at the bridge they also, and maybe more so, don't want it anywhere near Yosemite either. But each year that a successful Bridge Day goes into the books it whittles down their argument that BASE jumping is too dangerous. And they know that. And here is where I see opportunity.

It's Marah's Movie.

Is it possible there was a ranger hat in the audience at the Toronto Film Festival? Do they even pay that much attention to us? I don't know, but if they do that Ranger's report might read, “Holy hell, this movie makes us look pretty bad!!!”

I haven't see it yet but if the film gets just a little bit of traction, and if it tells Carl's story in a way people relate to and paints Jean in a strong yet sympathetic light then what comes next? I see Rangers worrying about the entire BASE community figuratively storming the gates of Yosemite Park with Jean Boenish thrust up like some type of BASE Joan of Arc.

Jean Boenish in Yosemite with public opinion behind her would be a nightmare for the NPS. They'll crap their pants!

Anyway, whatever happens - interesting BASE days ahead . . .

NickD :)
BASE 194

+1000

Great post. Interesting days ahead indeed...

I believe the State Police want fingerprinting. No mention so far of NPS involvement.

Man, you took the starch out of that, lol, and after I nominated you for the BASE Hall of Fame!

NickD
BASE 194

I thought you gave up posting here :-) But seriously fuck all those other cunts, I'm glad you came back :-) Mostly because Robin's BASE history is boring as shit :-)
Plenty of smiley's so nobody can get offended.

Marah did an interview with Bill Wendt the head ranger in Yosemite during the early days, some of it made it into the film. She said he seemed like a good guy. Carl and Jean I believe had a good relationship with him even though he said it was his recommendation to stop permitting jumps. He also stated something to the effect that he may have been too hasty in that decision.
In contrast though was another quote something like 'you don't have to dislike people to take away their freedoms'

I suggested a different approach to BD many years ago. Very simply, without the jumpers, there is no BD. the solution is simple. Show what the authorities are asking for to all the folks that benefit from this event ( vendors, restaurant, shops,hotel, etc...) and let them decide if they want the event to continue. This is not a battle we should be taking alone. It could easily turn against us. I can see them using that video to say, "Look at these non conformists flipping off our attempt at security." This is how it starts and ends up where this country is now. ENOUGH! Fighting with these Assholes is like wrestling a pig in shit. After a bit, you realize the pig enjoys it. This is EXACTLY what they want. Don't give it to them. IF, we stand united and handle this right, it can go well. If not, then be willing to accept another intrusion on your basic freedom that these Asswipes continue to impose on everyday life. I personally refuse to attend BD as long as the NPS is involved. I haven't made a difference. If EVERYONE did the same, it would. When are we gonna wake up?

The WV state police seem to dislike Bridge Day more than the NPS rangers.

This is correct. From the moment they start screaming at us at 7:00 am when we are trying to catch a ride on the boom truck until we finally clear the bridge I have seen a lot of bad attitude from the WV state police.

I am sure BD is a very long and trying day for the authorities, even though they are the ones responsible for all of the extra "security" precautions.

The local cops, as I've heard, have to "donate" X number of hours/days every year as part of their job. So most of those cops are standing there on a Saturday not getting paid.

Most every one of us donates time/hours/days every year to their career, we just don't fucking whine about it and be an ass to others. It's called being an adult and keeping your job..

never give in!! They want to take away our ability to jump! let's take away their ability to fingerprint us!! That's right guys!! Cut off your fingers! that'll show 'em!!

(But seriously, I can't even imagine the ever growing hassle and torture that we would have been put through for past 13 years without a fearless leader like Jason dealing with both the NPS as well as the WVSP. Thank you for everything you've done)

yeah then he asked who wouldnt come. almost everyone raised their hands for not coming and most gave a one finger salute to being finger printed.

2014 was my first BASE jump (I made 3 that day)...and I'm looking forward to many more. My wife and I brought our 4 month old baby girl and were looking forward to making BD an annual family tradition from now on. HOWEVER, if fingerprinting is instituted, I say FUCK YOU authorities, and our annual tradition will take another form. I LOVE the BASE community and will follow it elsewhere if we boycott BD! ...Hopefully, if it's invite-only, you guys can keep me in mind

Have they given a reason as to why they want finger printing, or is it just a fuck you because they can?

Perhaps there is a lot of prints on some interesting objects.
Maybe the chief caught his wife blowing a jumper.
We don't know

I'm told they want to fingerprint jumpers to check for warrants. The BD Commission is well aware of my stance on this issue and they read our forums from time to time.

In other news, the head of the BD Commission is out. She was one of the good people that ran the event since 2008. Not sure which direction things will take now.

Jason would you ever think of starting up a bridge day somewhere else? There has to be a town with a tall bridge close by that would like to have some extra money/tourists for one weekend out of the year. If you set it up somewhere else I would go, and I'm sure a ton of other people would. I'm used to dealing with large crowds at work and public speaking to 400+ people. I also have to talk to many different regulatory agency's regarding Health and safety. I would be willing to help out in any way I can. Having a well written safety plan can go a long way with different regulatory bodies

Jumpers,

Yesterday, I received news that the Bridge Day Commission plans to move forward with the scanning of jumper fingerprints in order to participate at Bridge Day 2015. From what I can tell, the State Police are the main players in this change. I'm told they think they can come in during our Friday 7PM jumper meeting and run everyone's fingerprints through the system under the guise of it being "less intrusive" than the one-time collection of SSN and birthdate information. Little do they realize that we process jumpers, check gear, and provide jumper ID badges on Thursday night, all day Friday, late Friday night, and even Saturday morning. Additionally, the 20-25 jumpers who receive their jumper ID badges via USPS mail because they can't arrive at the event until Saturday morning will now be out of luck.

Each fingerprint scan will check a database that searches for fugitives, warrants, and sex-offenders. They will require you to produce an ID during the fingerprint scan. I'm waiting on additional information on which scanner they plan to use. They'll likely tell us that fingerprints won't be stored, but I'm willing to bet otherwise.

Yesterday was a sad day for my team and every BASE jumper who has ever been to Bridge Day.

In the last 13 years, a grand total of 0 jumpers have failed the Bridge Day background check. Our recent suggestion to the Bridge Day Commission was to remove the background check altogether.

At the Holiday Lodge post-jump Bridge Day 2014 meeting, I'm willing to guess that 95% of those in the room held their hands high when asked who WILL NOT attend the event if they have to be fingerprinted to make a BASE jump. However, we realize that some of you will still choose to be fingerprinted in order to jump. Considering this, if we only lost 20% of our jumpers due to the fingerprinting plan, organizing Bridge Day is not financially worth it for me to continue. It's not getting any easier to organize this event financially, especially having been told by my insurance agent that event policies will be harder and more expensive to obtain in upcoming years (we paid over $4000 for a policy this year and having insurance is a requirement in my NPS permit).

As I said at Bridge Day 2014, I will not be a part of any BASE event, as an organizer or jumper, if fingerprinting of jumpers is required. It's been an exciting 13 years organizing this event and I'll miss it immensely. Many, many thanks to everyone who jumped at Bridge Day over the years. Hopefully, jumpers will stick together and let the Bridge Day Commission, State Police, local businesses, and any potential BASE organizers know that we oppose any fingerprinting of jumpers. Without us, there will be no Bridge Day 2015.

”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.” - Ben Franklin

I think you made the right call and good on you for sticking to your beliefs.

I think a west coast BD is very doable and has been in the exploratory phase for a couple years now. From now on WV can enjoy the pleasure of bandit jumps while legal revenue flows to other areas.

Or...issue a counter proposal to them. Every jumper will agree to be fingerprinted. However, all jumpers are now considered "talent" and as such, will be compensated accordingly for their participation in the event, taking into consideration the personal risk associated with jumping for the benefit of Bridge Day. As part of this, all T&E must be paid for by the Bridge Day Commission. A recommended rate would be $1,000 per day X 4 days + T&E. Meal allowances in the amount of $25 per day per jumper should be factored in. You, instead of being the event organizer, will take on a management agency role supplying the jumpers @ a 15% agency fee. Ongoing royalties for use of jumper's likenesses are to be paid to you and distributed to the jumpers in perpetuity minus your agency fee. Media rates apply for any promotional benefits that Bridge Day receives as a function of the broadcast airtime showcasing BASE Jumpers and is to be paid to you as the agency an distributed to the jumpers, again, minus your agency fee.

As you said, "95% of those in the room held their hands high when asked who WILL NOT attend the event if they have to be fingerprinted to make a BASE jump."

If anyone plans on taking Jason's position and organizing BD, I urge you to submit the counter proposal above. Understand this, this is the one instance where BASE Jumpers hold all of the cards. Do not succumb to the bureaucracy.

Alternatively, you can just go to Auburn and offer them the exclusive on Bridge Day from now on.

You may have to reduce the number of jumpers and/or somehow vet them for ability, but Auburn seems ready and willing to step up. Especially if WV walks away from it...they'll have dollar signs in their eyes.

My good friend Marty at Asylum BASE has the reigns on Auburn and he's the best person to represent BASE jumpers in that area.

Jason,

Have the Commission or State Police ever offered a legal rationale behind collecting fingerprints? That is to say, do they honestly believe they have a legal reason/justification for doing so, or are they simply classifying it as consideration in the contract?

I can understand why they would want to do it. I just don't understand why they believe they SHOULD be allowed to do it.

My wife and I participate in a lot of other events around the country. I've never been asked to submit to fingerprinting for the road races, trail races, or mountain biking events I do. Hell, I'm never even asked to provide ID.

We aren't being given access to some secret or classified site. We're simply asking to step off a bridge to entertain a couple-few folks while having some fun.

The notion that fingerprinting might somehow be necessary, justified, or even remotely palatable to citizens of a free society in these circumstances doesn't register with me.

~ Chris (who won't be spending any money in Fayetteville)

Super funny! I'm sure people with outstanding warrants would be caught totally by surprise, provide fingerprints, and get arrested because they didn't know this would happen and they were so set on jumping that they chose loss of freedom over loss of $100 for registration...

I would hope that we as a group can stick together and put our rights before a jump or three.

Thanks for a great decade of bridge days... i really really hope that there will be very few if any jumpers attempting to attend bridge day next year. i for one am definitely done. that shit is just ridiculous.

I nominate Rapozza to take over - he did such a bag up job with the video last year. If we let him collect our fingerprints, I'm sure he could make them just as accessable as that awesome video.

lol

Never been to a bridge day. And while I thought I'd go to it in 2015 now that I have family there, I can proudly say there is no way I'd go now, even if they reversed this decision.

Always wanted to go back for another year, but that looks like it won't happen now. I have no interest in visiting Fayetteville any more. I'll go back to Twin Falls and spend my time & money there instead. Great thanks to Jason, for being such an awesome, professional, responsible, responsive organizer.

The big question on everybody's mind now, though, is where is the catapult going to show up next???

Ebay. Serious. Soon.

It should go on a US base tour. I have some great places to put it to work here in the NW.

I can think of quite a few places where that catapult could be put to use :) Also, thanks for making Bridge Day happen. It has been a blast every year... so glad I took Mom for a jump this year as it looks like that was likely the last chance there.

This is indeed a very sad day in the history of BASE!

Joy

A counteroffer is absolutely the correct way to respond. They are attempting to get our agreement to their offer. In contract law there are basically 4 doors you can go through when receiving an offer.
1. Agree with the offer
2. Disagree and argue the offer - Rights are not up for debate. You do not argue that you have rights you assert them.
3. lay silent (tacit acquiescence)(you agree with them)
4. Counteroffer (conditional acceptance)- definition: A conditional acceptance, sometimes called a qualified acceptance, occurs when a person to whom an offer has been made tells the offeror that he or she is willing to agree to the offer provided that some changes are made in its terms or that some condition or event occurs. This type of acceptance operates as a counteroffer. A counteroffer must be accepted by the original offeror before a contract can be established between the parties.

Our counteroffer should include an offer to take them to federal court if they really want to push it. Not a threat per se, just an offer back to them. Conditional acceptance is non confrontational and non argumentative. You are taking control of the offer and sending it back to them. They will have the same 4 choices.

I conditionally accept your offer to collect my fingerprints upon presentment of proof*, by sworn affidavit, that by doing so, without my consent, you are not violating my Fourth Amendments rights.... etc., etc.

Fourth Amendment:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ”

18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242

42 U.S. Code § 1983 - Civil action for deprivation of rights
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1983

They are putting the cart before the horse. First you need a warrant, that states the probable cause that a crime has been or is about to be committed, in order to search or seize our private property, not seize our fingerprints then check for warrants. It's a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment but if we do nothing it is considered consent.

This is from the Department of Justice on fingerprinting:
http://www.justice.gov/.../title9/crm00251.htm
"The Fourth Amendment does not bar the fingerprinting of a properly seized person. "Fingerprinting involves none of the probing into an individual's private life and thoughts that marks an interrogation or search." See Davis v. Mississippi, 394 U.S. 721, 727 (1969). So long as the initial seizure of the person is reasonable, as in a lawful arrest, subsequent fingerprinting is permissible. It is also possible that the requirements of the Fourth Amendment could be met through "narrowly circumscribed procedures for obtaining, during the course of a criminal investigation, the fingerprints of individuals for whom there is no probable cause for arrest." See Davis v. Mississippi, supra, at 728; see also Hayes v. Florida, 470 U.S. 811 (1985)."

Also,
"The gathering of fingerprint evidence from 'free persons' constitutes a sufficiently significant interference with individual expectations of privacy that law enforcement officials are required to demonstrate that they have probable cause, or at least an articulable suspicion, to believe that the person committed a criminal offense and that the fingerprinting will establish or negate the person's connection to the offense. See Hayes v. Florida, 470 U.S. 811, 813-18 ('85); Davis v. Mississippi, 394 U.S. 721, 726-28 ('69)."


We are at a spot where we can turn away and accept their offer to give away our rights or we can say NO! If we do not assert our right to engage in this activity without having our private property seized(fingerprints are personal/private property), then we are agreeing that it is acceptable behavior for them to continue do things like this.

,

The US Supreme Court back in the mid 60's in Terry v Ohio said that before a cop can even stop a person and frisk them, while this was short of an arrest it still required "reasonable suspicion" that criminal mischief was afoot and that you had something to do with it. There is no reasonable suspicion by just showing up to jump a bridge on bridge day in conformance to a West Virginia State law that says base jumping the New River Gorge Bridge on Bridge Day is legal. These onerous regulations are clearly designed to putting another chilling effect on the rights of jumpers. What surprises me is that the sources say it is the State Police that seem to be the movers on this and not the NPS. That's important since the NPS is not bound by State Law, but the State cops should have a little more respect for an activity that the legislature has specifically said is OK on bridge day especially given the possible impact on the local economy.

Like I said...

It's funny how things happen... at particular times.


If this decision is not reversed in its entirety (I Will Never Be Fingerprinted To Jump Off The NRGB), I will thoroughly enjoy the actions I'll personally be taking to hopefully remedy this matter. Thoroughly Enjoy!

As well as, it will be a very interesting precursor to the actions I will be taking at a later date... being, (half of) the meaning of my last post:

http://www.basejumper.com/...post=2975223#2975223

And the fact, Jason, that you have posted this on Nov. 20th, given the significance of Nov. 20th, 2007 (as well as the day before), EXACTLY one month after Bridge Day 2007... oh, OH, I'm even further secure in everything I have said, done, and am planning to do.

God, Bless, the State, of, Virginia... one of the few remaining states with a "Reading Law" program.

And go figure... our newest Commonwealth's Attorney for the City of Virginia Beach, never went to law school.

Seriously... please don't.

I was really looking forward to getting launched in my Phantom...

Sleep on it... like, for a year.

I'm not familiar with the history of the Go Fast events but would resurrecting a Royal Gorge event be a possible option?

I'd be screwed, 3 years ago on the way to BD I got a speeding ticket somewhere in VA and lost the ticket that weekend. I still have no clue what branch of what city law enforcement Issued the ticket, it was 7am, I had been up for 10 mins and hungover, not to mention going on hour 12 of the ride. I've called several times and emailed, but none of the agencies claimed to have issued the ticket. I don't know who to pay.

Anyway I see exactly what would happen, fingerprint, red flag, in jail. For a 3 year old speeding ticket that I've tried to pay.

Bullshit.

The problem with RG is that it eliminates the majority of jumpers from being able to attend. It is not conducive to first timers, people with low jump numbers, or jumpers that aren't current. Also, it get's windy toward noonish and in '07 & '08 (only years I was there), jumping was shut down for 3-4 hours each day.

And...

...financial viability.

So sell advertising and make it a style and accuracy "competition". Pitch it to local TV.

Jason, what is the size of your yacht and what year is your Lamborghini from all of the wealth you accumulated from selling advertising during Bridge Day?

OB, I am not sure if you have been to RG, but there is not a whole hell of a lot around there. 16K people in Canon City. Pueblo is the closest "larger" city @ 106K (1 hour away). Not enough eyeballs to make it viable. If you came to me with an ad spend request for this I would decline immediately, so would anyone else with an ad budget significant enough to support an RG event. The only reason GF Games happened is because of Troy, JP & Marta, Hank and the "rescue monkeys" and their dedication to the sport.

Jason,

Echoing everyone else, thanks so much for organizing a spectacular event. Made my first jump there in '06 and its been a family event every year since then. This will be completely THEIR loss, and man I wish I could be there the day after bridge day '15 as they come crawling back begging for jumpers.

Fingerprinting people for no reason. Get lost. Even if they reversed their decision I'm inclined to never go again.

Why doesn't someone contact Fox news. This is the kind of stuff they live for! Jason can stand in front of the mic and say " they took my job" in a really redneck voice. Then talk about rights being violated by big government and obamacare. Fox would make it headline news.

All jokes aside, is this not the kind of stuff your news channels eat up?

Clicky

Well shit! Anybody want to buy a slider?

Winter is the best time to jump it anyway...

It's free.

I think this is some legit advice. I'm sure contacting a local news station (especially a Fox affiliate) could stir some interest. BASE jumpers boycott popular local (economically beneficial) event to protest overbearing government.

It's got it all. Government hurting the economy, over-reaching, etc.

Seriously, I say go for it.

With all the stuff happening in Ferguson right now they would love the story. just think, an overbearing police force abusing there power and violating human rights, a small town about to lose there biggest tourist draw. They could have side stories about how some people in the town count on bridge day for a large part of their yearly income, Then cut to a shot of little jimmy crying cause he can't go to Disneyland cause "they took my daddies jib". Then drum up 25 people in the town to protest and say 5000 showed up.

or you could write your congressmen....... if that still works down there. or better yet right someone who is not in power. they will try really hard to make it a big deal so they can be seen as "fighting the power"

orrrrrr we could all just go to twin falls.

High Ultimate!!!

I forgot I have some media contacts through work....... E-mail sent

Ill keep you guys updated if anything comes of it.

Jason - if you own the catapult and are seriously considering selling it, please consider offering it to the BASE community first.

Rick - lawyer to lawyer, I'm interested in flushing this out. I'm not sure the reasonable suspicion in so-called 'Terry stops' is applicable.

The issue here is permit issuance. Bridge Day requires a number of permits (e.g. NPS, local, county, etc.). The issuance of these permits is discretionary not mandatory.

As such, the issuing entities may condition permit issuance as they see fit (in this case by requiring participants to get fingerprinted as a condition of issuing the permit).

So any legal challenge rests squarely on the issue of whether these conditions are subject to any level of legal scrutiny. I rather suspect that the conditions would only have to meet rational basis scrutiny. In other words, the government need only show that the conditions are rationally related to serving a legitimate state interest.

Unfortunately modern U.S. courts very broadly interpret the scope of a 'legitimate state interest'. Courts give even broader deference in the post-9/11 world when it's a law enforcement agency (e.g. WV state police or NPS) promulgating the condition/regulation.

In other words, they can probably do whatever they want regarding the permits, notwithstanding responding to political pressure.

aaaaaaaaand now has the NPS just won by proxy....?

No question that all they have to show is a rational basis since jumpers do not meet the definition of suspect class like race so the Govt does not have to show it has a compelling state interest.. As a retired Govt lawyer for the Feds, I realize how surprising how many legal defenses governments have under the guise of sovereign immunity. The only real way to fight this is politics and economics. Since it's the State cops, I would hope that the local chamber of commerce would be up in arms to lose it. I'm sure however that the NPS would love to see it go.

    Has there been any pushback from the venders and the local businesses that stand to lose so much from there not being a bridge day? I'm incredibly happy I went to BD this year, because I will never attend an event that I had to be fingerprinted for.

My take on it is that if the Holiday Inn/Lodge can't make it a couple of years with out us, I'm betting that neither will everyone else.

I propose right now that we quit pondering the whys and why nots and come together right now and make an official press release to the news papers in and around Fayetteville and tell them simply we will not be back because of the WVSP decision. Jason is not going to head BD because of this and his contract. We apologize to to the great people of Fayetteville and tell them that we would love to return but we won't until the WVSP, the NPS, and the BDC all come together and let us bring BASE back to BD.

...or something along the lines.

http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2978785;#2978785

Office of Public Affairs
First Lieutenant M. T. Baylous, OIC
304-746-2198
304-746-2106 (Fax)

Mailing Address
West Virginia State Police Headquarters
725 Jefferson Road
South Charleston, WV 25309




Who to talk to at Headquarters

Main information number

304-746-2100
Executive Office

304-746-2115
Colonel C. R. "Jay" Smithers, Superintendent

Chamber of Commerce
310 Oyler Ave, Oak Hill, WV 25901
(304) 465-5617


Official Bridge Day Festival
310 Oyler Ave
Oak Hill WV 25901
Toll-Free:
800-927-0263
Email:bridgeday@officialbridgeday.com

Fayette Tribune
417 Main St W, Oak Hill, WV 25901
(304) 469-3373

Beckley Newspapers
801 N Kanawha St, Beckley, WV 25801
(304) 255-1902

Also worth posting your intent to boycott 2015 (which already has a scheduled date) on their FB page. That may be the most efficient way to notify all the vendors and otherwise non-BASE participants about what's going on.

https://www.facebook.com/bridgedaywv

You can publicly post on their wall, send them a message, and/or comment on the cover photo (which is their date announcement). I did all three.

So enough talking, start doing! A coordinated response, rather than just a few shots in the dark! I will gladly add my NAME to a list of boycotters. As Allen said the local biz will lose out huge. My fear is that some DB will try and step up and try and run it, and nubs will come out! Even if they just have the Red Bull Air Force show up with 5 jumpers they could still generate a turn out. We must unilaterally agree that we won't show up, and tar and feather any jumper that does! Change.org? Just show me where to sign!

Why would we apologize to the people of WV? We have done nothing wrong, we are not making an excuse for some fault, injury, failure or insult on our part. We do not need to defend our actions.... the WVSP and others who are pushing these 'safety requirements' should be the ones apologizing to the people of WV, not us.

We can make a statement informing them we won't be back but that won't get them on our side. I believe that if we start to ask good questions, then we will not be defending our position but rather letting people come to a conclusion on their own as to why this is bad for them and their states economy. You cannot force anyone to see things from your point of view, they need to get there on their own.

Apologize -
1. to offer an apology or excuse for some fault, insult, failure, or injury:
2. to make a formal defense in speech or writing.


Apology -
1. a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another:
2. a defense, excuse, or justification in speech or writing, as for a cause or doctrine.

A good way to start is to Post up on there Facebook wall. there is already a bit of chatter on there about no jumpers next year so lets flood the B*tch with comments. Facebook link was posted above.

Why don't we just have our own little unofficial event elsewhere same day? Could just all have a big jumping party in twin.

Agreed, everyone and I mean everyone should post on their fb account. Let them know we aren't criminals and wont be treated like them.

I'm in favor of a big party in twin. Even if they don't let us shut the road down we could still do a ton of jumping. there are some cliffs around for the more experienced jumpers and we would not be limited to one day!

I say we make it on the same day, Oct 17 2015. It wouldn't really need to be organized that much. just all go to the same bar. and if some one wants to volunteer to run a video fest i'm sure any bar in town would be happy to have us. it wouldn't even be to hard to set up a shuttle to the top of the hill for those that don't want to climb out. or we could not do any of that and just jump! I'm down either way.

Perrine Bridge Festival in September will have it's 10th anniversary next year! It's for a great cause, Twin Falls would love to have us!

It was rhetorical.

I say we write an article to that magazine you get with your USPA membership, and let all the skydivers that come to BD to make an annual BASE jump know what's going on as I'm sure they're not all on BJ.com.

NO ONE MUST GO!

Glad to see folks coming around to what I've been saying for the last 4 yrs. Jason has done a great job here but, the time is WAY past saying enough is enough! Take my free advice and handle this as I suggested over 4 yrs ago. Sounds like folks are finally sick of this BS and ready to stop the " Oh, the NPS is THINKING about opening the bridge up on more days to jump." I NEVER believed that and their actions are proving it wasn't true. Finally......

There is a lot of action on their FB page now, but we need more!

Please go to the Bridge Day FB page (link above) and let them know you intend to boycott. It's just about the least you can do.

Thanks everyone!

just posted a non emotional response encouraging the state police to rethink how a massive boycott is going to affect the local economy.

and i will absolutely come to twin falls next year on the weekend that they annually hold bridge day.

and please, you assholes, if youre going to rollover your speedwing of the bridge, WEAR A FUCKING BASE RIG AS A BACKUP.
/endrant

The NPS was one small part of opening the bridge up to jump days beyond Bridge Day. They had no objection to it as long as everyone else was OK with it. Other than an expensive special use permit ($2500), I have nothing but positive things to say about the NPS at the New River Gorge.

The WV State Police is where you need to focus your displeasure. They've been anti-BASE for quite some time with several "incidents" occurring in recent years. I call them the "Bridge Day Bullies". The Chamber of Commerce, who heads the Bridge Day Commission, seems to let the State Police do as they please.....but that's just my opinion.

The following entities comprise the Bridge Day Commission:
1) Chamber of Commerce
2) WV State Police (Secretary of the Department of Public Safety)
3) DOH (Secretary of Department of Transportation)
4) County Commission
5) Town of Fayetteville (usually a cop)
6) Sheriff of Fayette County
7) NPS (voted to this position by the BD Commission since state law only recognizes six)

Four of the seven people listed above carry a gun. I think that is the heart of the problem. All the wrong people comprise the Bridge Day Commission. Where are the people who actually want to see the event GROW? Why does the BD Commission contain so many people who DON'T want to see the event grow (ie. cops)?

I've been somewhat quiet lately as I wanted to see what direction this thing will take. I'm happy to see some of you making phone calls and writing letters. The social media aspect has blown up from what I hear (sorry, I'm not a Facebook user as nothing would ever be accomplished in my busy schedule).

Bridge Day is not my event and it's not your event. If the Bridge Day Commission wants to require fingerprinting, they can feel free to do so. HOWEVER, we can also jump elsewhere and that's my plan until things change. We have the numbers and the power to change things.

To answer some of your questions:
1) Have the Commission or State Police ever offered a legal rationale behind collecting fingerprints? No. They simply want to check for warrants, fugitives, etc.

2) I nominate Rapozza to take over - he did such a bag up job with the video last year.
Funniest thing I've read all year.

3) I'm not familiar with the history of the Go Fast events but would resurrecting a Royal Gorge event be a possible option?
I think we should focus on removing the fingerprint plan at this time. If nothing changes in 6 months, then organize a Twin Falls event.

4) Why doesn't someone contact Fox news.
Not a bad idea. I'm going to discuss the issue with the local newspapers soon. Also going to put some stuff on the www.bridgeday.info website, which will likely upset the Bridge Day Commission. That's a whole other story (they think they can control my website since they have the trademark, but I had the website first).

5) Jason - if you own the catapult and are seriously considering selling it, please consider offering it to the BASE community first.
OK. I'm now offering it up to the BASE community. Email me for pricing.

6) aaaaaaaaand now has the NPS just won by proxy....?
Possibly. Perhaps the State Police knew jumpers would boycott all along......completing their plan of having the 3rd Saturday off to watch football.

7) Has there been any pushback from the venders and the local businesses that stand to lose so much from there not being a bridge day?
Not sure. Benjy Simpson, who controls the rappellers, said he's OK with fingerprinting. I'd be willing to bet the rappellers don't even know about the fingerprinting plan. The vendors probably don't know either. I'm very curious as to what the rappellers think. Anyone wanna spread the word?


I'll post more information here when available.

I worked for Benjy for years as a guide, I'll see if I can find out what the slow moving targets, I mean the rappellers, think of it...

I've looked and can't find it...

Does anybody remember or know of a video from Twin Falls where the Chief of Police and the Sheriff(maybe) were at the exit with a jumper or two, and the cops were inviting people to come to Twin Falls? I want to post it on the Bridge Day fb page.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or09s-WxqbY

Lets make a big tent city in twin. Like a tini Burning Man of Base jumpers lol
Best thing about it, FREE! (except for the plane ticket...)

Ummm...no. I'll reply here the same way I did on FB:

This is obviously a terrible plan. We need to support the towns that support us with our dollars. Spending on hotels and restaurants is the best thing we can do.

Please do your best to encourage towns to welcome us in. Posts like this accomplish the opposite.

+1

Local twin businesses would be ecstatic to welcome jumpers, for those that can't spend the dough, Cathy has a yard where you can create a "tent city." Twin has done nothing but encourage BASE, for those on the cheap, pack 4-5 deep at the Red Lion, 60ish a night for BASE jumpers

Now that's how "To Protect and Serve"

I just did an interview with a local newspaper reporter regarding the fingerprinting chaos. He wants to interview additional jumpers for the story. Email me at jbell (AT) base428 (DOT) com with your phone number and name if you can assist. I'll pass along your info to the reporter and he'll call you.

Thanks.

Here is the official stance behind the fingerprinting:

http://officialbridgeday.com/...ground-check-update/

Allegedly, the idea is be to less intrusive by checking prints vs. running a background check (which requires an SSN). They say the prints won't be stored, I guess we're supposed to take them at their word.

Personally, I'm going to follow Jason's guidance. If you're uncomfortable with it as an organizer, than I won't support it as a participant.

*Spelling

I don't care how they spin it; the notion that any sort of background check is necessary or legal for simple participation in a community event is absurd to me. So, they can call it a "less intrusive finger scan" if they like, but it's still offensive.

~ Chris

That's like saying "let me hold your wallet for they day. But before you give it to me you have to put a lot of money in it, and you can't count how much you put in.... but I won't take any........ promise"

This is a copy and paste from the bridge day site

"The checks are required since jumpers and rappellers are allowed to enter the event with large equipment bags without going through regular Bridge Day security. The alternative to background checks would be to search every individual chute bag and rappel gear, which would be unnecessary and time consuming for everyone."

I for one would welcome a bag check. they could remove all the background checks and just check bags.

Agreed

"The only real flag we’re concerned with is the terrorist watchlist."

And they say fingerprinting will be faster than looking in my stuff sack, BS! I guess they really think BASE jumpers are idiots!

Nailed it!

"We want to make sure we consider any input from jumpers, rappellers and vendors, and so we will be compiling feedback for review."

It's a no to the fingerprints. Plain and simple. Fingerprinting = No BASE Jumpers. Now move on and set the new event day for Oct 17, 2015 9:00AM - 5:00PM for the official event, but hold it in Twin or try for Forrest hill through Marty. Stop the negotiations, issue a press release around the new event and call it a day.

The official Bridge Day website stance on fingerprinting is laughable.

1) Claim: Bridge Day BASE jumpers, rappellers, and vendors have always undergone routine background checks.

FACT: Background checks were never performed from 1981-2000. Additionally, jumpers who were background checked in 2002 did not have to undergo any background checks in the last 12 years. The background check was a one-time process.

2) Claim: No one has ever failed the background checks.

FACT: I was told that two vendors failed the check in the past 13 years. However, if no one has ever failed the check, WHY HAVE THE CHECK AT ALL?

No one at the Bridge Day Commission has asked me my thoughts on the fingerprinting plan.

No one at the Bridge Day Commission has considered the impact to OUR schedule and how WE hand out ID badges.

No one at the Bridge Day Commission, except for one or two people at the Chamber of Commerce, cares about jumpers.

For the last three years, the State Police have yelled at me and my team over simple things such as asking why a bomb-sniffing dog needs to search MY own vehicle.


For the last 13 years, I sat in countless Bridge Day Commission meetings listening to many people talk down to BASE jumpers. Even the rappelling coordinator has thrown a few jabs from time to time. I kept my mouth shut.........until now.

I'm not sure if all of you know this, but I work for a government contractor. We build the things that Edward Snowden warned you about........and you'd be quite upset if I told you the details. I do NOT believe for one second that the State Police won't store fingerprints, regardless of what they tell us. Fingerprint scans are intrusive and unnecessary to jump at Bridge Day. Even if they don't store fingerprints, are you willing to sacrifice your liberty for a little security? Are you willing to show up on the Friday before Bridge Day 2015 and stand in a long line of 500 people waiting to show ID and get your finger scanned by the State Police? Why wouldn't the State Police store fingerprints since it'd be quite easy to do?

The entire background check process is BS to begin with. Bridge Day security is nothing but a "we did our due diligence, so we can't be sued" mentality. Many of you don't know this, but several years ago I decided to test the background check process. I submitted some fake names, SSNs, and birthdates just to see if they were really checking us. Well, it turns out that that the fake person passed with flying colors! The following year, I even submitted Eric Ryde's name, along with a fake SSN and birthdate. HE PASSED as well. FYI: Eric Ryde is someone who is wanted by the NPS, by the way (it's a long story). So, they weren't even checking everyone all this time.

Another odd thing happened this summer. Contractually, I am obligated to submit the names/SSN/birthdate of all jumpers to the Sheriff each year for a background check. However, I don't have to resubmit the same info year after year as the background check was always a one-time only deal. Around late July, I attended a Bridge Day Commission meeting where I was told that I needed to submit "every jumper, every year". They wanted to change the rules on me. It was requested that I go back to all 350 jumpers who had already registered and tell them they needed to give me their SSN and birthdate. I REFUSED to do so since it went against the wording in my contract. I didn't budge and the Bridge Day Commission made sure to note in subsequent meeting minutes that they needed "every jumper's information" this year to cover their asses. In the end, I stood my ground and Bridge Day 2014 passed without incident. Perhaps my refusal to let them change the rules is the reason for the fingerprinting?

There is strength in numbers. We must unite and fight against the implementation of any type of fingerprint or biometric scan. The system works just fine the way it's been done for the last 13 years. Or, better yet, remove the background check altogether.

Per the official Bridge Day website, the Bridge Day Commission wants to make sure they consider any input from jumpers, rappellers and vendors, and they will be compiling feedback for review. They will also be sharing feedback with the WV State Police Department, which enacted the requirement. You can add your comment to the report by emailing Bridge Day at officialbridgeday@officialbridgeday.com. Specify if you would like your comments added to the report, or if they are off-the-record. Anyone is also welcome to call them at 304-465-5617 with any additional concerns, questions or comments.

I just spoke to the BD people and shared my concerns with them. The lady on the phone was very nice. they have asked anyone with concerns to call in. the number is 304-465-5617 ask to speak to the BD commission.

It will only take a minute to make this phone call. the more people that call and say they will not be going the better.

304-465-5617

Just called, took less than 3 minutes,
spoke with Sharon, sweet nice lady,
she listened, wrote down my name,
and we finished up by wishing each
other warm and pleasant holidays.

Also spoke with Sharon, very friendly. She made it sound like they are happy to here from us so they can get some accurate data regarding peoples position on the fingerprints, and where people are traveling from to attend bridge day. Our short talk (under 3 min) also ended with a happy holidays

Check out this video of our fingerprinting discussion after jumping at Bridge Day 2014.

http://youtu.be/b8FkNF6t4vo

If you can afford the hotel then by all means. But if I'm spending $500-$600 on a plane ticket out there, then I'm staying for a week! Hotels get pricey then ;p I'll be spending my money on local shops/bars instead :] That way it's spread throughout and not just in one place.

So, really not for everyone. Just anyone planning to stay for a week or so.

"Thank you John, I will add your comments to our log. I appreciate you taking the time to let us know how you feel about the issue.
Have a good Thanksgiving."
Sharon

I didn't call them just sent an email and got a quick response! Anyone get the same response by email?

Great post regarding your reasoning and supporting evidence Jason. The way things are moving regarding the BD fingerprinting thing gives me some hope in the BASE community and future of BASE. As long as we have vocal, reasonable people like you leading the way, I think maybe one day we could jump in national parks without losing our jobs, getting criminalized, and legally/financially screwed.



Happy turkey day everyone!

 From a Greek philosopher , Good people dont need laws to tell them to act responsible,while bad people will find a way around laws. trade them one up. my fingerprints traded for the officer's fingerprints. Stand tall! now is not the time to boycott, it is time for protests.

a boycott is not the way to go. just refuse the fingerprinting and jump anyway. and please remember to be polite. they are just doing their job same as us. it is the boss that makes the rules/laws. and no, it is not legal to search and seize without probable cause. but when did the guvnment ever abide by the laws.
Occupy Bridge Day. Stand up and fight. Dont do what i did. Moved overseas to pursue freedom of of fun instead of fighting the law. We can maybe get the climbers and speedflyers, hangliders paraglider and sky jumpers etc to protest. Protest our civil rights violations. that is why amerika was established anyway was it not? but just dont be self righteous.and remember that each individual is fighting their own war. If you meet a self righteous member of law enforcement, mob him video him, ask for his autograph.
just my 2 cents. http://beforeitsnews.com/...irginia-2448548.html
take care, tracy

It can't work that way. It's their event and their rules. We can't just show up a few days before jump day and demand they change their rules at the 11th hour. Guaranteed fail. Do you really think 450 jumpers are going to take a chance and spend thousands of dollars flying to Bridge Day in hopes of jumping after defying rules enacted by the State Police and Bridge Day Commission?

I've had 13 years to contemplate every negative aspect of Bridge Day. Our refusal to jump due to fingerprinting is no different than someone shopping elsewhere due to policies or pricing that they disagree with. We disagree with fingerprinting, so we'll jump elsewhere until things change. Call it a boycott if you want.

I see an even bigger problem that the Bridge Day Commission should think about. With a fingerprinting plan in place and a major loss of jumpers, no reasonable person will step forward to organize the BASE jumping. Even if the Bridge Day Commission removed the fingerprinting plan, the damage has been done and organizing the BASE jumping may be a financial disaster.

All of the post on the BD facebook page are replied with

"[insert name], we understand your concerns. Fingerprints will not be stored as part of the new process. Read more here: http://officialbridgeday.com/bridge-day-background-check.../ Please feel free to call 304-465-5617 or email officialbridgeday@officialbridgeday.com with any additional questions or concerns."

You could post something about how the weather sucks and they reply with the same thing. Either they don't give a flip or the number of post being made in such a short amount of time is too much for them to handle.

Here's the new visitors center complete with packing in Idaho.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...27249091696893_o.jpg

Don't know if you saw this, Jason, but Subaru also seems to think BASE Jumping makes Bridge Day.

http://drive.subaru.com/sum14-bridge-day.aspx

So that's not a gas station they were constructing? lol

If there is one thing I've learned over the years, it's to not complain about something without offering an alternative. Therefore, I think we need to focus our efforts in this area.

My fingerprinting alternatives include:

1) Keep the existing background check policy of submitting names, SSN, and birthdate. This system worked fine for 13 years and I never heard one complaint from anyone at the Bridge Day Commission about the collection, submission, or processing of our personal information.
2) Remove the background check altogether since 0 jumpers have failed it in 13 years.
3) Perhaps a meeting with the Bridge Day Commission would allow us to seek alternate methods of submitting a small amount of personal information to facilitate a background check.
4) Other methods?

Thanks to so many of you for supporting this effort to remove the fingerprinting plan. I realize that the term "boycott" sounds somewhat negative and I have tried to refrain from using it in hopes of finding an alternate solution. As expected, there have only been a few people who think a boycott is the wrong way to proceed. However, I haven't heard many viable alternatives from this crowd. If someone like me says "I'm not going to be fingerprinted to make a BASE jump", what can you call it other than a boycott?

Bridge Day is a great place to jump, but we can live without it. Six hours a year isn't much anyway. And I'm willing to bet that the Bridge Day Commission, the State of WV, and the local community can't live without jumpers.

I'd like to see us offering more solutions, making phone calls, complaining to those who implemented the plan, etc.

While I too think it is great that jumpers are finally coming together on something I can't help but feel that our "complaints" are futile as they are already expected. I think it won't hold any real weight until the complaints are coming from the non-jumping locals/business instead. Which we already know will happen post BD 2015 failure, but is there an avenue to rally their support before hand?

Form letters to local businesses/vendors, etc?

Yes, a precisely worded letter to all the venders and local businesses explaining the situation and how it may impact their bottom line is a very good idea. People won't give a rats ass until they are shown how it will impact them on a personal basis.
Maybe Jason can get a list of the last few years venders from his contacts at the Commission?

A public notice in WV newspapers may also help spread the word to possible Bridge day attendees that there will be no 'BASE show' in 2015 unless they voice their dissatisfaction with the proposal. This will also impact attendance and money flow into the local economy if people decide it's not worth going if there will be no "entertainment".

.
Jason, what are your thoughts on other possibilities as to why the WV state police are pushing this so hard? Are they being lobbied by another group that would profit or benefit from us not being there? Is someone higher up in state government or the federal government threatening to pull any funding that is being received for the event if this is not implemented?

Hi Jason,I am one who thinks that a boycott is the wrong way to go. I think your way is better. Respect to you and Jenny for pushing BD so many years. I would just consider it a challenge and jump despite a boycott. I am so egotistical that i know that we can jump give them the hour to minutes and make them look like fools. But as you said, offering alts is the way.....I am am still upfor making them looklike fools. Not the officers but their boss.
take care,
trace

I will start with the confession that I am not a base jumper (I’ll probably be pummeled for this) but I monitor this sight for lessons same as those learned on DZ.com. Bridge Day has spilled over to DZ.com now.

I don’t know if this has been said yet, but, as an outside observer I suggest the following:

From what I read Bridge Day has become a difficult situation for the NPS. Yes it’s an economic boost for the locals but it seems that some of the commission (NPS from what I read) are not very keen on the event any more.

Now if they decided to just end the event there would be a huge hue and cry (take this thread as an example). So if you want to end an event without the pain associated with just ending it, then come up with a requirement (finger printing) that is so objectionable to the participants (base jumpers) that they just leave on their own accord.

Take a deep breath and relax. You may be running away from Bridge Day just like they want you to.

Respectfully submitted.

 

Pay attention. Bridge day is the LARGEST event in West Virginia. It brings huge revenue to the community around Fayetteville. Go monitor some Martha Stewart videos on YouTube. Without BASE JUMPERS, bridge day would just be another street fair. We know it and they know it! I'm all about conflict resolution but giving in to finger scanning for the sake of jumping, is like saying in prison you get three meals a day, and my nice cell mate named bubba let's me be the receiver. Go sell your BS somewhere else.

I haven't read this entire thread, but there are tentative plans for a bridge day in norcal in the near future. Given the object there will be much stricter requirements, but all signs are positive at this point.

I vote yes! Can a brother get an invite?

You shut your whore mouth Tampapete!

Like that yer trying to save this but, is this really the way? As I've said many times, fighting with a pig in Shit.....
Enough already. Take their screwy demands to all who benefit from BD and let them fight this battle. No more negotiations, no more compromises, no more Fucking BS! End this here and now (like it should have been years ago) with the intrusions on our constitutional rights. And yes, it is this simple. Stop cow tailing to these Assholes and stand yer ground.
" Those who sacrifice liberties for security, deserve neither"

... where do they get fingerprints of terrorists from? Doesn't sound particularly plausible to me...

Jason,
Thank you for all of your hard work up to this point. I would say the best option for us is listed right on the bridge day website. It says they have to do fingerprinting to avoid having to do a bag check on all the jumpers and repellers. Why not just have a bag check? I would be 100% good with having someone check my bag before I walk on the bridge. I'm sure everyone else would be good with a quick bag check to.

I have done everything I can think of to help out. I have called them I have tried to lead the Facebook charge against bridge day fingerprinting, and I have tried my best to talk to people I know inside the media. If there is anything else you can think of let me know and I'll do it.

All the best from Canada!
1836

Subaru just declined to sponsor Bridge Day 2015. They were the lead event sponsor for the last 5+ years. They were well aware of the fingerprinting plan, which likely influenced their decision. They also helped me out by sponsoring the catapult.

I guess we all lose when the Bridge Day Commission makes dumb decisions.

I wrote them a polite email stating that if their views that fingerprinting was more efficient than social security numbers were accurate, they should offer it as an optional alternative for a trial run and convince the event participants that this is indeed the case instead of forcing everyone to switch over.

That, and that I question the effectiveness of anti-terrorism measures based on fingerprints due to my doubts in the US government's ability in procuring the fingerprints of that the majority of "terrorists", who by my understanding are in caves on the other side of the world, for comparison with mine.

Some logistical problems with fingerprinting the day before Bridge Day (off the top of my head):

1) Must fingerprint 500+ people (jumpers and staff) in one day.
2) Jumpers may end up spending thousands of dollars and a considerable amount of time traveling to Fayetteville, only to find out they failed the background check.
3) Many jumpers cannot arrive in Fayetteville until Saturday morning. While fingerprint scanning may be possible at this time, we don't hand out jumper ID badges this late.
4) What happens with false positives during the scanning process?
5) Will jumpers who fail the check have any privacy while surrounded by their fellow jumpers? Will a big red light, buzzer, and the words "FAIL" pop up on the screen for all to see?
6) Cops at the Holiday Lodge.
7) BASE coordinator must somehow sync up the handing out of jumper ID badges with the WV State Police fingerprint scanning approval process.

The old system of background checks submitted in early September and early October allowed enough time to contact affected jumpers, if needed. Now they want to fingerprint us all in the 11th hour when things were just fine for the last 13 years.

number 6 scares me the most

Jason, I just stickied this thread.

If you'd like to write up a summary of your posts here with a link to your web site and/or the Facebook page, I'd be happy to sticky that one instead, so it would be more immediately informative to anyone who reads it.

Thanks for sticking up for us all these years. I know it's been a thankless job.

I have been to only two Bridge Days and each time I have done a bag check for all my rigs at the gate when I arrive. I don't feel that its invasive and it doesn't take much time. If they have a dedicated line for jumpers to go threw this would be a very fast method of securing the event.

My family and I will truly miss this event. We have been scheduling our vacations to coincide with Bridge Day. We rent the same cabin for a month each time as well as patronizing the local economy.


I manage festivals and concerts for a living and we have anywhere from 10,000 to 200,000 people each event.
We have never done a background check on anyone. All staff and patrons are bag checked at the gate each time they enter by paid security (read: no cops)
This is the standard for everything from presidential events to large stadium tours.
The only time I have ever seen necessary to subjected others to go threw background checks and fingerprints was a series of events working directly with the President of the United States and a U.N. event with world leaders attending.

Background checks and finger-prints DO NOT stop knives, guns, drugs and bombs.

I suggest bag checks and if needed bomb sniffing dogs.

This is what always gets me. They want to fingerprint to increase security in regards to unchecked large bags on the bridge...which leads one to believe they are "protecting" against terrorists trying to blow the place up. How the hell does fingerprinting ACTUALLY help any of that?

Obviously anyone wanting to blow up the bridge would have their fingerprints in a database

It was revealed yesterday that a court accidentally released on bond two known terrorists on a State Department watch list.

The government can't even keep track of terrorists it knows of and has in custody. Explain to me why I'm supposed to trust any government entity with my personal information.

~ Chris

Hey dumbfucks, what low self-esteem terrorist is going to waste his (or her) time to blow up a relatively meaningless bridge in a po-dunk town, or to disrupt an event that's barely a blip on the national media radar?

Leave it to us self-important North Americans to think that our shit is important enough to warrant terrorism precautions.

Much like the 'war on terror' itself, the WV police are merely using this as a pretext to justify their budget & their militarization vis-a-vis ostensible 'terrorist threats'.

Let's view this fingerprinting issue for what it is: the overreach of a governmental agency through the abuse of discretionary permit issuance.

The WV police don't want the hassle of dealing with us and obviously don't care about any derivable economic benefit to Fayetteville.

Let's stop debating anything to do with terror or terrorism - it only legitimizes their unjustifiable position.

Hi man. I totally agree with you that the fingerprinting is even worse than the current system. We all know it's just another attempt to put more burdens on BASE jumpers at B Day. This is nothing new. You were also right about that fact it's always been the State Police that were the big BASE haters. Way back in the mid or late 80's, there was a guy getting up on the rail right at quitting time and a huge neanderthal State trooper grabbed him, bent him over the rail backwards and started poking him with his huge finger. I was going over to stop it when Joy smartly grabbed me and stopped me. Several years later, Jean Boenish called me in late September when I was in Miami where I worked at the US Attorney's office and asked me if I could fly to W. VA for an emergency hearing the next day with the Bridge Day Commission. They were contemplating taking the event away from us, the USBA, who got it started in 81 and ran it every year until a certain, small Hitler looking fellow, (that Phil Smith and I taught how to BASE jump), offered to run it and give them the photos ID's they had been after for several years. He was a short little nervous fellow with a pencil thin mustache, who's name I will not mention and was trying to take control of B Day by warming up to a cute girl on the B Day commission and by offering up photo ID's. Up until then, Jean and myself as the USBA, to whom the permit was issued each year, had told them to get screwed since the permit was to the USBA, not to any individual jumper so they didn't need individual ID's. I flew up to the hearing and it worked, we staved them off another year. BUT, at the hearing, guess who the State Police representative was on the B Day commission? Sgt. Payne, the same huge neanderthal that was bullying the BASE jumper a few years earlier. At the hearing in 91, he was the most offensive and came out and said, "I don't care if I ever see another BASE jumper", to which I replied that he should be more cooperative to an event specifically authorized by the W. VA legislature, jumping at B Day. By 92, they again were trying to force us to allow the photo ID issue and Jean and I basically told them to go to hell, but this small napoleonic fellow promised it to them so he got to run it the next 2 or 3 years. We gave up since we were tired of fighting their ever increasing demands on the jumpers and they never offered help in the way of funding, trucks, etc. Ironically the first year little Napolean ran it, he personally pointed out 3 of our favorite old timers as they approached the exit in the line. The NPS arrested all three for outstanding warrants in Yosemite. Way too much police control. Couple years later the State police brought sniffing dogs into the packing area and along the jump wait line just to intimidate jumpers. I told the commission at the previous hearing that if a jumper behaves in W. VA, it's no business of theirs as to the jumpers past. Anyway, after the short guy left, Avery came along and saved B Day for several years and restored some faith in the event. After Avery, Jason kept it going a lot longer than I would have done. Jason has done a great but frustrating job, but if the W. VA cops want to again shoot the entire event in the foot. so be it. I like Twin Falls where they welcome BASE jumpers and it's a safe jump for the newbies. The rest can always go down to Moab later and enjoy double trouble or jump the local low cliff at Twin. Sorry to the friendly businesses and restaurants in Fayetteville, but they have the State cops to thank when their businesses fall a lot next October. Jumpers, we all need to stick together on this one if we ever want to have any political or economic clout.
Rick Harrison
Exec Director, USBA
BASE 38

I agree that we all need to stick together. We have enough power to make a long overdue change to an abusive system.

I always enjoy your stories about the old days. I remember when the three jumpers were arrested at Bridge Day and pulled out of the jump line.

Another variable in this messy equation is that the Bridge Day Commission has contemplated organizing the BASE jumping themselves. Let that sink in for a minute or two before you pull your hair out.

I REALLY like the idea of there being ZERO jumps made.

Come 2016 the conversation would be totally different.

Ultimatums only work if we are willing to follow through.

Lastly, Whuffos organizing 1st time BASE jumps = DEATH!!

I've been twice. I'm far from current but I'll not be attending ever again if fingerprinting is the additional cost. I'll gladly add my name to a no-go list if anyone is keeping one.
Paul.

As Rick says, Andy C opened the door for the Authorities to overstep the rights of participant BASE Jumpers back in the early 90's to further his own personal agenda.

If this was a security issue WHY DON'T THEY FINGERPRINT EVERYONE OF THE 100,000 or so spectators that show up to support W. Virginia's biggest annual event?

This is just an extreme example of a local Law enforcement agency choosing to profile and bully a segment of society that stands out from the norm,...

It's crap and anyone that doesn't Boycott is just enabling the Tools!

Amerika is Broken and this is just one more example of that,..

Boycott West Virginia and affirm your rights to Freedom from harassment by the Man!!!

Regards, B.

you guys seen this?? http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20150105/GZ01/150109710/1419

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I wanted to make sure that the "Andy C" to whom you correctly knew I was talking about is not Andy Callender. Callender is a super cool guy living in Europe. The little Napolean to whom I referred that first gave in on photo ID's was the Andy who was assistant editor of the old baseline mag. My good buddy Phil S to this day regrets letting him have so much control over the magazine.

http://www.wvgazette.com/.../GZ01/150109710/1419

Seriously, its not that hard.
There is even a button for it. Click the url button, add the link, click the /url. How do you guys expect to fucking survive BASE if you cant even figure out how to post a damn link? You need to rethink your choice of hobbies, perhaps golf or crosscounty skiing is a better fit.

 

I golf and just tried crosscountry skiing... skate skiing actually I guess their is a difference. Still never could figure out the clicky thing but Im glad you pointed out the url button. Thanks! do I have to give up base though?

You should never stop BASE! Youre one of the chosen!!!!

Yes, Thanks for clarifying that, I was trying to avoid naming names and didn't realize that in doing so I might unfairly implicate an upstanding jumper. The Andy C that I was referring to has a last name that ends in "stratt "" and that rhymes with "rat " which seems appropriate.

And Rick, thanks for all you have done in the interests of the sport, your selfless efforts are appreciated.

Regards, B.

Love your metaphor and thanks for the nice words.

I wish we all could be as cool as Outtabounz and just post pictures as replies. Id hate for you guys to have to actually use your brains to come up with a response ;)

Do people ever really ski across counties as a sport?

brain? i dont have one. just MASSIVE balls, and dynamite good looks!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I saw your picture online!

blue steel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure if flattered or insulted...

understand your thoughts regarding not naming names, but cally strat is probably not worthy of that consideration.

how many of you remember the security req's for BD 2002, the first one post "911 2000"
BD 2001 was cancelled due to the hysteria and fear that the terrorist would blow up fayettville................


I know we had to submit detailed ID information prior to the event.
Don't remember if we were finger-printed or not.

Ciao

Kleggo

Bridge Day 2002-2014 had the same background check requirement (name, birthdate, and SSN). It was a one-time only check. I personally handled every jumper's personal information during that time period and it was all deleted/destroyed after I got an OK from the Sheriff that everyone passed.

 

??????

New article


http://www.charlestondailymail.com/.../DM01/150129832/1276

Pretty well balanced

Bridge Day BASE Jumping
1980-2014
R.I.P.

I couldn't attend the Bridge Day meeting today as I'm in San Diego all week for work. However, I've been in touch with most Bridge Day Commission members via email and telephone. They knew our stance on this issue and they heard our comments about going elsewhere. We offered alternatives. They even asked if I'd come back and organize if the finger scans go away. However, they just voted for the 2nd time to move forward with the finger scans. I'm told the state police made a motion to proceed and another cop seconded it. It's unfortunate that the Bridge Day Commission is made up of so many law enforcement personnel.

For the last few months, I let this fiasco unfold on it's own. I didn't attempt to influence jumpers any more than the next guy. During that time period, I saw other jumpers create "Boycott Bridge Day" facebook pages and even "The Other Bridge Day" being organized at the Perrine. Many of you said you wouldn't come back to Bridge Day even if the fingerprinting went away. Several of you offered support and thanks for all the good years we had and I thank you for those emails and texts. I guess this is the end. It's been fun.

Regardless of any new decisions the Bridge Day Commission may make this year, I am now urging every BASE jumper to not attend Bridge Day 2015. Go jump where your voice is heard, your money is appreciated, and your presence welcomed.

Moderators, please remove the "Bridge Day Organizer" label that has proudly rested under my username for many years. I can't explain how much I'll miss Bridge Day. It's like a part of me died today.

Jason and everyone, I feel your (our) pain............

RW and I will not attend this October, well, I said October...

Joy

Such a shame. I am going really going to miss my annual trek to Fayetteville. I guess we can send the BDC a nice photo album of how much fun we are all having in Twin Falls this year. The "Police State" mentality is completely out of control, and I'm really glad that we as a community are deciding not to be a part of it.

Thanks for the fun times Jason.

This sucks.

I'm not to Bridge Day either if finger printing is done.

Personally I think the label should remain. I can't fathom having a normal conversation with Jason in person WIHOUT him talking to me through the bullhorn.

Make sure you make a list of the idiots that show up to jump. You fuckers better not go. Twin falls will be legit. The new visitors center is looking awesome!!!

I think everyone that shows up will be skydivers not base jumpers.

Sounds like something a skydiver would do. Fucking skygods.

Jason,

did anything come out of your email to them in regards to holding onto our information instead of destroying it? Was that something that was in your contract or just an unspoken agreement?

This seems to be mentioned again in this artical: http://m.register-herald.com/...fda36c.html?mode=jqm

According to Sharon Cruikshank, chair of the Bridge Day Commission, the commission previously updated the RFP requirements for rappel and BASE, replacing a paper application with a digital finger scan that officials say will be less invasive for participants than providing Social Security and other information each year and having that information remain on file. Since that occurred late last year, there has been a good deal of negative reaction, particularly from those in the BASE jumping community.

They were simply saying they kept "information on file" in the past in order to sell their new fingerprint plan. I contacted the head of the Bridge Day Commission about this issue and they reported they only kept information on file during the background check process (not after the event). I kept information on file as well, but destroyed it immediately after the background checks came back clean.

As far as I'm concerned, the Bridge Day Commission lied on this issue. If the Bridge Day Commission did keep any info on file after the event, that goes against their own rules and the issue should be investigated. Regardless, everyone needs to not attend Bridge Day 2015. They don't care about you, me, or any BASE jumper anyway.

Jason, I'm curious: How many total members are there on the Bridge Day Commission? We know there are 5 or 6 cops from 2-3 different agencies, but how big is the actual commission? I looked around but couldn't find the info.


44

The following entities comprise the Bridge Day Commission:

1) Chamber of Commerce
2) WV State Police (Secretary of the Department of Public Safety)
3) DOH (Secretary of Department of Transportation)
4) County Commission
5) Town of Fayetteville (usually a cop)
6) Sheriff of Fayette County
7) NPS (voted to this position by the BD Commission since state law only recognizes six)

Bottom line: 4 of 7 members carry guns.

Class action lawsuit?

Hmmm, a police-state majority panel. Explains a lot.

Seems to me that such a panel should be more "diverse" and less police-state-centric, maybe something more like this:

1) Chamber of Commerce
2) DOT (Secretary of Department of Transportation)
3) Extreme Sport Community
4) County Commission
5) Mayor's office, town of Fayetteville (NO COPS ALLOWED)
6) Sheriff of Fayette County (He is an ELECTED OFFICIAL so he is the ONLY police representative allowed on the commission)

7) NPS (NON-VOTING MEMBER because state law only recognizes six)*

* It could be argued that all decisions that included a vote by the NPS rep should be vacated for being in violation of state law that recognizes only six -- especially if WV has what is called a state pre-emption law, where local jurisdictions cannot pass laws at variance with state law.

Thanks, Jason.


44

That's kinda what's happening now, though not in the formal legal sense:

One CLASS of people (base jumpers) is taking ACTION (voting with its feet) that better SUITs the LAW of the land -- the US Constitution.


44

http://www.wvgazette.com/.../1419/&nocache=1

Will be a great Bridge Day in Twin instead i suppose!

As stated in the article their main concern is to secure the bridge from the 80-100,000 people who attend the event.

Do they intent to finger scan also the 80-100,000 who walk on the bridge? Why not? Anyone of them could be a criminal, terrorist with intent to harm a crowd of that size.

By there logic scanning 450 BASE jumpers protects 80-100,000 people ?

Are the vendors boycotting BD2015 too?

According to this poll, the vendors and spectators will do a group wank. Because there will be no BASEjumpers.

I say fuck them.

What cabin/area do you stay at? I really would love to do something like that with my fam and a few friends. How many would an average size sleep? Also, are the beds "big enough for two"? *wink, wink*

(Replying to Jason because his post is most relevant to my post)...

The BD registration website says currently (copy and paste):


Well I googled the crap out of Disney World Finger Print, and it seems Disney uses a finger scan of one finger to personally identify season pass holders to their pass. In fact, I have a season pass to a local attraction, and they do the same thing. I don't mind, it is one finger, not linked to anything and half the time it rejects my own finger and I have to show a picture ID. ;-)

It is my understanding that BD is going to instead scan "finger prints" not a "finger print" and compare it to a criminal database, and possibly even store information, although they claim not.

This to me is deceptive marking. Disney finger print = local link to season pass. BD finger print = criminal database.

FYI - for my job I have had to have my finger prints taken to get clearance to government sites... It was a cool machine, first they took an entire hand/palm print of each hand, then they took a full print of each finger all sides. Then they took my home and work address, SSN, DOB, phone number, etc. Then she said "now I just need to hit send." I asked where? The FBI she said... The send button was not marked "send" but instead "enter". The upload happened in milli-seconds. These machines are "tied into" the database. I said to this law enforcement person "darn, and I wanted to rob the liquor store tonight". She replied, "you still can, just wear gloves."

Anyway - what this taught me - if I was at all concerned about having finger prints on file, I would not trust any machine used by law enforcement, especially if they start filling out personal info on the screen.

Law enforcement finger print scanners <> (not equal) Disney scanners. Sorry BD.

(P.S. With all the terrorist attacks and evil people, like the copy-cat theatre shooter who killed people today, I understand the need for security... Just be honest about it and fully disclose and put in writing the exact privacy policy of exactly what will happen to the data.)

Next year you will be able to get around the finger scan if you comply with the new rectal examination and let the NPS have their way with you. How do you think Tree got the job?

and also, just for the sake of diversity,
Law enforcement finger print scanners != (not equal) Disney scanners. Sorry BD.