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http://www.20min.ch/...-Diablerets-21191027

A 44 years old american jumper had an fatal accident in "Les Diablerets" area. From what it's written, he missed his start, no more details.

Same article in german:
http://www.20min.ch/...t-ums-Leben-23962083

From google translate:
A base jumper is killed in an accident on Friday in the Canton of Vaud. The Americans threw himself with a colleague from "Sex Rouge" below Les Diablerets. He collided violently with a rock wall and fell several hundred meters in depth. The man was located by rescue workers in a gully.

As the Vaud cantonal police announced the evening, five people were driven by cable car to the glacier to execute it a jump with a so-called "wingsuit". Only two of them plunged into the depths.

During a 46-year-old German managed the jump, the 44-year-old American missed his jump and hit 100 meters deep on a rock wall. Due to poor visibility, the rescue workers in the night had to be taken off on Saturday with a helicopter. The salvage is to be resumed at daylight.

According to news reports, the body was retried Sunday (2says later) once visibility conditions were better

Here are the details of what happened:

On Friday, October 3, Donald and four of his friends went on a trip to Les Diablerets in western Switzerland near the French border to jump a newer exit, close to the gondola. Once they came to the top, there was a bit of a down climb from the observation deck to the actual exit point. One of the guys wasn’t feeling great to begin with and took the gondola down and headed back to the landing area. Three of them climbed down and were throwing rocks for a while and got anything from 4,5 to 7 and even 8 seconds sometimes. Wind conditions were ideal. After 30 minutes or so of checking it out, one of the guys jumped. Donald watched him and felt more confident about it. Two of the guys were working on a project, so they came back up to the restaurant and were later going to go to the other, usual exit. They told him if he didn't feel like jumping this one, he could just join them at the other exit.

The two guys spent about 40 min in the restaurant, and as Don hadn’t come back, they called the guys on the ground to ask if he was down. They said no one else had come down so one of the guys went back to the observation deck to check. Donald was standing on the exit point, geared up and waiting for the clouds to open up. He yelled down to him multiple times to try to get his attention. After about 7-8 times Don notices, and says he can't hear him because of the music. He continued to yell to him to try to tell him to turn it off, and he repeats that he can’t hear him. About 20 seconds later the sky opens up and he walks to the edge. The guy on the observation deck doesn’t normally like to watch people exit, so he looked down. He only sees the exit with his peripherals, but it appears to be a normal exit. After 4-5 seconds he hears the first impact and then the suit flapping until he comes to rest a few hundred meters below.

You had to have a strong push on this exit. The first jumper pushed hard but Donald did not. As Donald is 90kg he just did not take off fast enough, and with the lack of push he did not make it past the first ledge.

He said he didn’t really like it and instead of coming up with the other guys he probably decided to jump because the first guy did and made it. The first jumper had been having poor exits for the last week and normally Donald started earlier than him. This is probably what gave him the confidence to jump, but as they never got to communicate with him due to the music, he could not ask what his reasoning was and how he felt about it.

Donald who?

44

Donald Zarda

Sad to see Don go for sure. Really nice guy, and always enthusiastic. The music thing does not surprise me at all as many of us had talked about him being very distracted but cameras/music on exit points. Thanks for a thorough writeup.

and PS to Robin. Can you stop quoting really long posts to ask a quick question like that? It makes the thread super annoying to read.

Get a mouse with a scroll wheel; they make screen nav easier and they don't cost much.

44

Haha what a dick!

Yes, you are, but if you work at it a little you can overcome that.

But enough thread drift. This fatality reminds me of the Russian girl who went in because nobody could be bothered to keep an eye on her when it was patently obvious that she needed a little help. All the background info on what was going on with Don and the other jumper and the site and all that -- and then these guys leave him alone to decide so they can do lunch instead of lurking at the launch point to help him make the right choice?

And then when they come back from lunch and the guy is still there -- making it patently obvious just by the time he spent waiting at the launch point that he was not ready to go from that launch point, neither one of them cared enough to hike down to him... your dickishness shrinks in comparison by orders of magnitude.

44

Ok, I had to read the incident report again when I saw your response. I thought maybe it was not clear but even after reading it twice, your coment does not make much sense to me...
Possible that it was not an ideal exit point, and possible Don was not sure if to jump or not. But Don was a very experienced jumper and itbis his decission if to jump or not. I would not jump with friends if they felt they have to tell me if to jump or not. And I would not jump with friends if I would have the feeling i need to tell them to better not jump a certain exit. If this would have happend to a newbe, i would partially agree with you, but not in this case. We (experieced jumpers) are 100% resposible for our own decissions and if we are not accepting this we are in the wrong spot in a first time. But the way I knew Don, he was absolutly capable of making his own decissions, although it might hace been the wrong one.

Totally agree mikki. Don was a very experienced jumper doing an advanced jump and having done many other advanced jumps in the past. Hand holding was not an issue here, and at this level, none should be expected or required. If you decide to do these level of jumps, you should know what you're getting into.

Respectfully disagree, Mikki: Everyone, regardless of experience, knowledge and mad skillz, can benefit from another set of eyes or another opinion.

This is one of those best practices that has been lost in BASE jumping: In the old days, it was a given that you did not jump alone -- that you always had someone with you (even if it was a whuffo) as an extra reality-check resource because you were doing something so dangerous.

Now there has emerged this ludicrous notion that as soon as we achieve that magic moniker of "experienced" jumper, we suddenly never need nobody no more for no reason.

What a huge massive stinking poop pile of of a proposition.

Regardless of our experience, knowledge and mad skillz, we can all use advice and input from those around us and for that reason we should as a rule always have someone around us to provide that little extra input that may make the difference between life and death.

And by way of example, I tell here again a story I've told twice before on this forum, one time (ironically) in support of hrjumper33:

Now, I know I'm speaking to an international crew here who may not know who John Elway is, but he is one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to play American football, and I watched him play for all of his 16 years in the NFL.

And there he was one year on his way to winning his second consecutive Super Bowl, and there was his coach yelling at him from the sideline as one play started:

"Set your feet! Set your feet!"

This is THE most fundamental thing any quarterback has to dial in before s/hecan be effective: If you don't set your feet, you cannot throw accurately or with velocity, period.

And here was this guy's coach REMINDING him of something that he first learned in the backyard from his father, then in peewee football, and so on until he's playing in the biggest single-day sporting event in the world, during the last game of his soon-to-be Hall of Fame career, during the game for which he was afterward named Most Valuable Player... and neither he nor his coach thought it was inappropriate -- or unnecessary -- to remind him of something that he first learned when he was 3 or 4 years old.

We never have too many jumps or too much knowledge that we outgrow the need for reminders of the most fundamental kind -- I mean, that's sorta kinda maybe like why we call them FUNDAMENTALS, you know?

The bottom line is that (at least) two people are dead this season -- one experienced, one inexperienced -- in large part because nobody cared enough to keep a lurking eye on them... or because so many "experienced" jumpers have become such slaves to the mindless "ethic" that we are 100 percent responsible for ourselves that they don't have the slightest clue that getting input from others or offering it to them is just as critical as watching rock falls and listening to the wind.

As to your other point, I would not jump with friends who didn't think it was their business to say so if they felt they had to tell me whether they thought it was a good idea for me to jump or not. And I always have the feeling when I'm jumping that I may need to tell a companion that I think it is better not to jump a certain exit. Three examples:

1. Night jump, Tokyo smokestack with two younger but very current and heads-up jumpers. We had abandoned a try from a taller building because of nearby police activity. This was a nice site but the wind was blowing the wrong way for the best landing area and the secondary landing areas were just okay - if everything went perfect. I said, "I can't see myself not bleeding so I'm not jumping. You guys do what you want but the margins are too close and I think it would be stupid to jump in these conditions." I walked down. They stayed. Five minutes after I got to the car, they did too, rigs still packed.

2. Night jump at a famous dark slash in the ground: Big landing areas and I'm with a highly experienced jumper. Weird winds, so we snooze at the edge in our space blankets for a couple of hours. Winds still sketchy when we wake up. Other guy still motivated. I shake my head and say, "No way. There is nothing but death down there. If you want to go, I'll wait and see how it goes, but I think you'd be stupid to jump." He pondered and then agreed and home we went.

3. Dawn jump, Denver building: I arrive at the building with a less experienced jumper. Conditions are absolutely perfect, we're happy with our pack jobs, our ground crew is dialed in perfectly. My less experienced companion turns to me and says, "my roommate had a dream that somebody was gonna die on this jump, so I'm not jumping." I laughed and said, "Life is already short enough without trying to prove a stranger's dream wrong. Let's go eat breakfast." And so we did.

It is the conscious and deliberate lack of this kind of reality-checking and collaboration and lurkfulness at launch points that contributed to the deaths of Don and Maria this season, based on this bizarre and misplaced mantra that we must isolate our decisionmaking from all other human input because we are 100 percent responsible for our own decision.

That is brain-dead on so many levels and it is a growing factor in so many dead bodies.

44

you obviously A. Didn't know Don at all and B. Don't wingsuit BASE jump

All decisions are final and non-refundable. We all knew Don's exits were bad, a few people had told him. But he continued to search out new, more technical exit points rather than clean up his exits at safer ones.

As for the music and distractions, I don't understand any urge to fly with music in...this shit is dangerous...take it seriously

+ about 1000 re the music... to me that's like texting while you're walking through rush hour traffic... on top of that, multitaksing makes you dumber.

Decisions, on the other hand, are not final until you actually launch.

As for Don, if you all knew his launches were bad, then all the more reason to not do lunch and leave him alone at a launch point.

At the same time, no, I didn't know Don and perhaps you are implying that if I did I'd know he never listened to anyone anyway and if that's the case, well, then maybe doing lunch so you don't have to watch the carnage is the right move.

If that was the case, then he was like Rob Tompkins. Great kid and I did in fact know him pretty well, but he wouldn't listen to anybody either. Was convinced that doing a gainer on launch made for faster wingsuit starts and went in on a Kjerag exit that the absolute craziest mofo of that time (JJ) said was crazy to do a gainer on (wrong technique and too short a start regardless). Unfortunately, Rob not only ignored JJ's advice, on his last jump he hiked to the launch point fast so there was no one else around to tell him he was crazy and shouldn't jump (see what I mean?) and then he proved crazy JJ right. I remember at the time thinking -- and still do: "When the craziest mofo on the block says doing a particular thing is crazy, you damned well better not do that particular thing."

And to be fair to you new guys, maybe there are now so many egos more inflated than the wingsuits they're jumping that saying anything to anybody any more is just wasted breath.

Still, I'd rather waste my breath and hear "**** off" 100 times at a launch point to hear that one "thanks, I'm walking down this time" that keeps somebody breathing.

Look again at the account of Maria's fatality (the Russian girl). At how many points during that whole process could even a small intervention have changed the outcome?

44

You write too much, Uncle Rico. Please stop cluttering relevant threads with your ramblings. Start a blog.

I [A] did enough jumps with Don to know his lack of communication skills with other jumpers (did someone say annoying?, whaaaat, thats crazy, have some respect for the dead)
[B] I wingsuit BASE jumped more times than Robin has even done jumps totally, so unlike Robin I am qualified to have an opinion.

[C] Even if Robin is in no way qualified to have an opinion, I also disagree with Michi that it is entirely his descicion to jump. Especially when the decicion was so bad like this one. If we wanna get some sweet deals for travel insurance in the future, we need a communication climate where it:

[C-1] is no big deal to tell anyone if they are beeing retarded.
[C-2] you listen and process when someone tells you that you are retarded (even if they are wrong)
Its kind of BS to think that just because you have scraped this many treetops and cleared that many ledges, you dont have to listen to or give any advice to stop fellow jumpers from clogging your airspace with rescue choppers.

[D] Listening to music while WSing is nothing like texting while walking through traffic, its more like listening to music while walking through traffic. Shows how little Robin knows about music, texting, walking and WSing.

People there told to Donald to don t jump it if he don t feel it. So what do you want they did more? Everybody is responsible for his own choice.
Robin you didn t know him, the guys who was there, what and how it happen so stop posting here please

Takes two people to make a conversation. I wasnt there, but if you say the people there told him as much as they could have and he didnt listen, then I guess its entirely his own fault.

I wasnt trying to point fingers. Sometimes you are the deliverer of such messages (example: "you are a dangerous retard") and sometimes the reciever. All I am saying is that in either case, be constructive when you give criticism and try to listen when you receive. The listening part is probably what went wrong in this case. I doubt even 9 hours of Robins old stories could have fixed his exits or decision making skills.

A better verbal exchange of safety issues will reduce accident rates, and in the future we can look forward to fantastic deals on WS-base travel insurance.

But they left him there alone to feel it. This is the point I keep making that seems to whoosh right over the heads of you new guys: Don't leave peeps alone to feel the rightness of it; just being there can make a difference in diverting a decision tree from death to at least die another day.

And if you want me to quit posting on this thread, quit talking to me. I've said all I need to say, but the longer you guys keep posing questions or directing comments to me, the longer I will keep responding. Pretty simple cause-and-effect...

44

 
I talked in my last post about beeing constructive in the criticism you make to other jumpers about safety. Robins approach is:
Your approach is more like a telemarketing guy trying to sell stuff you know nothing about. Then you also shit on people who has been with Donald somehow implying its their fault:
One thing you fail to understand Robin, is that people dont just buy any advice on the internet, the motives behind the advice is as important as the advice itself.
Your advice comes with accusations and long irrelevant stories. I would never follow it. Your motives seems too questionable to me. The advice I have followed in WS-base comes from other jumpers along with a genuine hope that I will follow their advice and stay alive. Big difference.

Why you dispense advice is very important to whether or not anyone will listen. Some people never listens anyway, or are too hard to communicate with.

I think this could have been the case in this incident. And also good old gravity and rocks played their parts.

Why, he already has a blog:

http://robinheid.wordpress.com/

When lots of people who are current practioners /experts in a field you are giving advice on all disagree with basically everything you say, youre either way ahead of your time, or way behind it. Ill let you decide for yourself where you fall...


A great man once said, "youre out of your element donny"

Yes, you most certainly are out of your element, but that sure doesn't stop you from demonstrating your mad math skillz, does it?

Anyway, I'm done ruffling the self-righteous feathers of heroes with holes in their souls when it comes to looking out for their BASE brothers. You all act just like you described dear departed Donald; You don't listen and you keep on doing what you're doing even though it's a priori wrong and will inevitably end bloody. It will indeed be interesting to see how many of you (and, more importantly, those "experienced" BASE brothers who have the misfortune of sharing an exit point with you) are still above room temperature when I make it over the pond in a couple of years.

Condolences to Donald's family and real friends.

44

8 year olds, dude...

Sigh, I don't even have a response for that. I'll check back on the next fatality thread for more of your inane ramblings

Robin feels the need to comment on every incident from an armchair with limited real world experience. He may have done some basejumps, but he is as much a basejumper as an AFF student is a skydiver. You can haggle the semantics but you get the gist.

Yesterday at stechelberg a few jumpers were bemoaning his constant interludes on accidents, and the universal consensus was he should just "go away."

Reminds me of a guy who has a few guitar lessons and bumps into Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. Brian smiles in passing, and thereafter the student feels qualified to offer instruction on guitar conciertos.

Please stop jumping on wikipedia before each incident commentary to create a sense that you have some depth of knowledge. Simply fuck off.

"Might have been, could have been, but never was" is your best descriptor.

Now now kids remember what ya mum would say if you can't say something nice then don't say it at all


I would be more angry at the guy who keeps posting fucken video links to in memory of steve Morrell jumps

He did maybe 45 BASE jumps but there is that many fucken video links I think he has done 4500

As always I am here for a laugh flame on people

holy shit you guys are awesome!

so much learning going on in this thread... like, this is why i love solos. oh shit! don't leave me alone to my own thoughts!!! i'll die!



fly forever Big Gay Don! you were awesome!

ok???

YES! This all day long!

Robin,

Perhaps you can reflect on your own poor decision to jump a ridiculous gear configuration 10 years ago in the face of sound advice from fellow jumpers.

CLICKY -> http://www.basejumper.com/..._BASE_jump_P1293967/

BSBD Donald Z you quirky duck!

Regards,
Spence

Whats up? You seek that a jumper who has no probs advise you?
tcs

In general I find that those who have made mistakes and survived tend to have something to say worth listening to.

This digresses from the topic on which I said I was done posting, so I will address it, then retire again from this fray.

First, it is ironic that you made your post 10 years to the day that it happened, but your question is demonstrably silly: all that "sound advice from fellow jumpers" was offered ex post facto on a web forum, not to me at the time.

Second, now that you have resurrected that 10-year-old thread, let me update some of the facts and correct some misstatements made by others:

Update: It wasn't even packed when I jumped it, which I didn't realize until months later when I got the gear bag back -- with a mesh slider and BASE risers still inside.

Correction: I specifically asked the person responsible for running the event (Jimmy) if it was okay with him that I jump the 135 and he said yes.

Correction: Space was right; wrong to jump a PC that big with a canopy that small. Pulled the center cell back and I would have had to fly middle to deep brakes even if I had properly cleared both brakes. However, that big PC probably saved my life because a 36 may not have been enough to open a field-packed canopy.

NOTE: Jimmy and Jeb (who recommended a bigger PC than the 36-incher I planned to use) both told me later that it flat out did not register in their brains that I was jumping a 135, even though they remembered me saying so -- and that if it had registered, they would have responded differently.

Correction: That ZP canopy was not "clapped out." It was ZP, plus it had a brand-new lineset on it.

Please now return to the topic of this thread and the importance of lurkfulness instead of shooting blanks at me.

Peace out,

44

Cool now could you address the part when you said sometimes you just have to walk away and then that you should never walk away? Because dons real friends wouldn't have walked away

So you jump based off of the decisions of other jumpers on the load? You lack the ability to think for your own personal safety?


And you don't pay attention?



Seems like your placing the responsibility on others. Jummy and Jeb as " they told me it was ok" " He told me I could jump it"

And things don't " register " ?

and maybe you should just listen to your own advice:


just stfu with things you know NOTHING about

I have done many jumps with Don and i have seen him back off and not jump due to winds or other issues he saw, or the fact that he just wasn't feeling it.

The fact is that no one will know what was going through Don's mind at the exit, during the short flight, or the moment right before impact. After all the BS above, maybe it's time to give it a rest and show Donald the respect he deserves.

If the links bother you, don't watch them. I knew Steve and jumped with him and I enjoy watching the videos.

in reply to " self-righteous .. heroes with holes in their souls when it comes to looking out for their BASE brothers."
...................................

Thank you for posting that Robinheid ........ so true .
And listening to music while wingsuit base jumping ...... really ??? who could be such a twit? and what music could possibly be worth listening to ? Wham ?? or should that be " anutha one bites the dust "?

ps when you post we actually get an opportunity to learn something from one of our elders ... cheers and applause

Trae, have you ever listened to music while operating a motor vehicle? Because only a "twit" would do that. Everyone knows listening to music while driving is distracting! "What music could possibly be worth listening to?" Highway to Hell?

I listen to music while wingsuit BASE jumping too! (Albeit with only one earphone in so I can still hear on exit or landing if I need to.) Unless you're a shitty jumper who's unsure of himself and distracted easily, it shouldn't be a problem to tune it out and focus when you need to. Conditions during this jump were good. The fact that he was listening to music was not a factor in the accident whatsoever.

everyone has a limited attention budget

listening to music consumes some of that budget

which means there is less attention to spend on everything else, be it driving or jumping

for me, jumping is serious (and awesome) enough to want to spend 100% of my attention on it

not judging anyone who chooses otherwise. but you are telling yourself stories you want to believe if you think "listening to music was not a factor in the accident whatsoever."

Very much true.

Various action cameras, music playing loud and other distracting attributes can for sure influence your ability to correctly asses the weather/wind conditions and communication with others before the exit. And that's even ignoring the actual jump itself.

Music also influences your emotional state a lot, and can actually suppress feelings of fear, and thus influence you towards bad decisions. A simple example is people driving with loud/aggressive music tend to not become safer drivers, if even just related to speeding fines.

And though perhaps less an issue to some, music for sure influences a lot of areas in the brain that will take capacity away from the task at hand in terms of coordination, judgement and attention.

If it was of any influence in Donalds accident, we'll never know. But for sure its not something that's recommendable on wingsuit basejumps.

I agree.

I think of each of my senses as an instrument, like in an airplane. Music in my ears is the same as taping over one of my instruments in flight.

For the approach, sure. On the exit? That's something that you should be giving 100% of your attention too.*

*Opinion.

This sport has always been a personal choice for every one of us.
We all are aware of the odds.
Can we as jumpers stop pointing fingers and try to realize this guy was in his happy place, doing what he loved.
He was on an exit point of HIS choosing in HIS right frame of mind.
The music didn't make him do anything. We all make mistakes, let's keep that in mind. Sometimes you just Fuck up, Most exit points don't leave much room for Fucking up.

While doing something that demands full attention, I want to be fully "in the zone" concentrating at my fullest. Everyone is different yet everyone desires to be in this state of full concentration.
At the moment of exit I am in the zone, there can be no distraction. To some people this may be listening to other jumpers scurrying around behind them at the exit point. To others it may be softly listening to a nice relaxing Rihanna song.

Music is not the issue.

My condolences to our BASE family.

A lot of people jump with music. I honestly don't think it's a big deal. It may help some people feel motivated or relaxed, yet for others it may be an unwelcome distraction. I will never tell someone to stop if they think it helps them.

There is, however, no arguing the fact that it consumes a portion of our finite attention. Don't think so? Try taking an academic test in a quiet room, followed by one with music playing. It is most definitely a distraction. This is even more true for music with lyrics, as your brain works to process the meaning of the words being blasted into your ear.

Do you think that you tune this out when you're flying so you can concentrate fully? Okay...then why have music at all?

There is also merit to Jarno's point about it effecting your emotional state. Aggressive music has been shown beyond a reasonable doubt to impact decision-making. Calm music has also been shown to relax the body...this can be positive or negative on the exit point depending on your "default" emotional state at exit.

Listen to music while flying if you think it helps you, but don't be dishonest with yourself about it not being a distraction. It absolutely is. Not just the music itself, but also being another point in the "gear check" as you fiddle around with headphones and song selection.

Was it a factor here? Maybe, maybe not. Impossible to know and foolish to speculate. But I do think it's a topic worth discussing.

I'm just going to say that you're wrong, you're also right. It all depends on who you're talking about. If you put me in a quiet room to take a test I will not perform up to my maxim level. If you put music on (lets say the radio) ill do even worse. But if I can listen to the same song on repeat Ill be at my best. Its not so much that I'm listening to the music, but it helps me tune out everything but the one thing I need to focus on. If it is quite my mind will race and ill be thinking about tons of things that are not related to the test. I work best with the same song on repeat and that's a fact. When I'm at work I have a 3 hour track of the same song on repeat. when I put it on I get more work done. It helps me get in the zone. I'm the same way when i'm training for sports.

When I'm BASE jumping I would hate to have music, unlike the rest of my life I love the silence right before a jump. But I can understand how someone else could need it to perform at their best because I need it to do the same in other parts of my life.

Now I'm not saying this jumper needed it to be at his best, but I don't think its fare to say that 100% of the time its a bad thing. Everyone of us is different and we need different things to be at our best

Okay, let's play a logic game:

Our attention capacity = X , where X is finite.

Any stimuli we encounter will occupy some percentage of X.

Music = Audio stimulus = Some percentage of X.

Therefore, any music we encounter will occupy some percentage of X, where X represents our maximum capacity for paying attention.

Like I said, maybe it helps you, maybe it doesn't. But to suggest that it's not an additional distraction is a disingenuous statement which people like to use to defend their personal preferences.

If a camera is a distraction (and I believe that it is), then music is a distraction.

I also think that there may be a correlation between the desire to add music to your jumps and an increased level of complacency. No evidence there...that's just a hunch.

I understand your point and it is very logical. My point is that some people can't give 100% of there attention to one thing, but with something to tune everything else out they can give close to 100%

I know I'm like that for everything but BASE jumping. It is a guess that some people might be like that when BASE jumping.

Thats by assuming your attention is some sort of physical resource.

As madprops mentioned earlier music can be used to shut out yourself in a way. I experience the same thing as he does whenever im in a quiet place my head just starts filling that silence, so using music to fill that silence but use music you dont have to activly pay attention to - in his case use the same song on repeat.

in my experience, almost everything counts.
So I totally agree that we all have limited capacity of awareness.

well, you decide (and/or accept) what takes you more to the "green" line and what shifts you towards your personal "red" line.
Party till 3 a.m. with lots of beer, exhausting hikes, personal fitness issues, weather conditions, mental stability, breathing technics, music during the jump, ... this and many more things will influence the very personal outcome.

I know that some guys listen to music while in a complex skydive.
for myself - it would break my ability to concentrate (I´ve tried it on easy skydives and didn´t feel comfortable).

To the point for me: music is an issue, but like everything else.
it comes in addition, so can I handle that?
If standing on the edge with your earplugs in, you should be aware what that means. If you question yourself whether that is good or bad, the answer is already clear.

sometime before I jump, I like to sit on my hand until it goes numb...and then i masturbate...I call it the stranger, is this a distraction?

To all other people on the exit it is for sure. :D

What is the point of this ongoing discussion about music being a factor in his death...?? You guys are banging on about it like a bunch of pseudo-scientists when all your information is entirely subjective, making it almost totally irrelevant to the incident at hand. It was said previously that his exits were lacking and he was pushing onwards with more and more technical exits.....

Don would of been ecstatic over all these guys fighting over him

HAHAHAHA you are 100% correct.