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Hello everyone,

I am exploring the possibility of offering a medical and perhaps medical + basic rope rescue course targeted to base jumpers. I am looking for some feedback.

I think it would be easy to agree that as a community we need more training in this area. More self sufficiency, and more of us trained to keep our friends alive until more advanced care can be reached.

If, for arguments sake, we can agree that more medical and perhaps more high angle rescue training is needed in our community, I was hoping we could discuss cost and curriculum.


Cost/Value...

These courses certainly already exist. You can take a two day $280 Wilderness First Aid course, a 10 day $800 Wilderness First Responder Course, and 3 to 10 day $1100 High Angle Rescue Course. They are offered through NOLS, WMI, etc.

The value I would be offering would be curriculum designed exactly for the types of situations you are likely to encounter while base jumping, crafted to blend the best and most base specific medical (and perhaps high angle rescue) training into one course. Also, the courses would be located/timed near jumping events (like bridge day, Moab, Twin Falls).

For arguments sake, lets assume the course is very well run, efficient, realistic, hands on, targeted perfectly to a base jumpers needs (no its not free), and taught by trauma nurses, doctors, and EMTPs, with years of professional and education experience, and conviently taught in either Moab, Twin Falls, or perhaps eventually right before Bridge Day.

The courses would be heavily hands on, with real life scenarios acted out by actors with realistic looking wounds and signs/symptoms to evaluate and treat under the watchful eye of your instructor. For example A likely scenario might be, after classroom learning, the group heads out to a nearby base of a cliff. You are told your cell phones have no reception. You are a 2 hour hike from town. Your friend just jumped and had a cliff strike, he is tangled in gear, laying on top of a scree field. You see blood all over his head and neck, and open wound down to the bone on his leg. He is not moving but appears to be drifting in an out of consciousness. …..


Curriculum....

I need to know whether or not you value the high angle rescue skills, or would prefer to just focus on trauma and medical education.

Summary....

I am committed to developing this offering and believe the only way I will know if the community values it enough to pay for it, is to set up the course, offer it, and see if we get enough interest. In an effort to increase my chances of success, I was hoping you could both vote in the poll above, and comment in the thread if you have something to add. I am particularly interested in comments concerning whether or not you would be interested in high angle rescue training or just the medical training, and also of course your thoughts on the proposed cost.


To explain the Poll Choices…

Option 1. 2 Days. Medical Only. This would be a 2 day medical only course that is similar to other Wilderness First Aid Courses, but targeted towards likely base jumper scenarios. Likely cost: $250 to $350

Option 2. 10 Days. Medical Only. This is similar to other Wilderness First Responder courses. Course participants would receive their AHA BLS cert. Again, with curriculum targeted towards base jumpers. Likely cost: 800 to 1000.

Option 3. 10 Days. Medical and High Angle Rope Rescue. This is basically a compressed Wilderness First Responder Course, with 2 extra days for basic high angle rescue training. Likely cost: 1100 to 1300 dollars.

Thanks for your thoughts

Regards,

Allen Freeman

A few years back I took a wilderness first responder course. One of the best things I ever did. I strongly encourage any one to do the same as a very minimum. I think it was 50 or 60 hours of class over six days? It was held right there in Moab. I don't recall which organization was running it but it was held over by the fire station. It was basically class room but that allowed it to be very intensive and productive in terms of information. More then any thing else it drove home how little I knew.

I have mixed feeling on how a class like what you are proposing should be run. I think a lot of it depends on the back ground of the students. In the class I was in every body had plenty of pack time. Most of them were professional guides. It was really more about the book learning which is what we really need to focus on. Trying to do it out doors might have been fun but it would have fundamentally slowed things down.

There are a lot of new faces in this sport some of them have not spent ten or fifteen years living out of a pack. There are numerous issues just in the environment alone that would be challenging for them and it might justify the effort to try to conduct the course at least in part out doors. I have mixed feelings on this. I almost think there should be a stand alone course on that. I think Marta and Jimmy were actually doing a intro to Moab course at one point.

Opinions on high angle courses. Hmmm. I think it really depends on how ambitious you want to be. I think we really need to define the goal here. Short of just a bad landing in the landing area resulting in a broken ankle or leg things get serious really fast. We have a lot more potential to get in to trouble then an average hiker. Best realistic case would be piled in at the top of a steep talles. It only goes up from there to full on wall rescue. You could probable teach them to carry a basket down a steep slope with small vertical drops. I think that would be feasible.

Any scenario beyond that involves plucking some one off a wall. As an example, almost every thing in Moab could be done with two ropes three max. So a top down rescue is very possible on a lot of these cliffs. But to pull that off they would have to be climbers. I don't think it's feasible to take a group that are not already climbers and teach them something like this in such a short time and expect them to be independent and functional when your done. I think that the High Angle, wall rescue, course needs to be broken off as a separate stand alone course. I think it's too much to ask of some one that does not have any type of climbing back ground and I think it would discourage many people that should take the wilderness first responder course/low angle rescue course.

Don't get me wrong. I would like to see a High angle rescue course happen as well. I've seen people pulled off of walls following wall strikes. It can be done. But look at some of the people getting in to this sport and their back ground. It's not the place to start.

What you're proposing is important. These skills are needed and a lot of the people entering this sport don't have them. I was really pissed off when that guy froze to death a few years ago below the Perrion bridge. Utterly absolutely totally avoidable. You can set out an artic storm in your canopy and this guy dies on a chilly night a quarter mile from the party at the Outback. I never knew the guy but he was probable some one who had never slept out side a bed. And there are more people like that out there. If we, or some one, doesn't educate them more people are going to find them selves in trouble.

Lee

I would definitely pay for that (assuming good, planned curriculum and professional quality). Especially if you had it near a legal BASE object (maybe the perrine? It'd make the cost even less of an issue since I could jump as well). Maybe have mock situations/events (have someone lowered down a wall and do a mock rope rescue)? I'd definitely want the rope rescue in the course. I often have tons of climbing/slacklining equipment in my car and rope rescue would be a valuable skill to have.

Lee,

Thanks for the in depth reply.

Certainly it would be a challenge to balance the skills I want our community to have, with the reality of time and cost.

Splitting up the courses makes sense in many ways: there is simply no substitute for time. Combining the subjects may be good in name only, with the result being jumpers who have not had enough experience or learning in either subject to be an asset when things get nasty.

As far as classroom vs hands on, this is something that has already been figured out by the industry leaders. The instructors that I am speaking with know how to balance this to maximize learning. I will lean heavily on their experience when crafting the course schedule.

Lately I have been thinking it may be possible to offer this course as back to back modules. A 2 day, a 10 day, and a 16 day course. All back to back. The 2 day would be basic medical, the 10 day in depth medical, and the 16 day would be in depth medical plus rope rescue. If you wanted all the training you could stay for all of it. If you only wanted the 2 day course, you just stay for the first two days. The material would not overlap.

In order to make it more likely for the course to have enough participants to successfully offer it without loosing money, I could craft the curriculum to be tailored to base jumpers, but still relevant to those outside our community. This would allow me to fill out the classroom with non jumper students, lowering overall fees, and still offering the training in a way that benefits our community.

Zebu,

Thanks for the reply. The rope rescue skills are something that I think we need as a community. They are, however, difficult to learn in 2 days. Most rope rescue courses (high angle) are closer to 7 days in length.

I have to be realistic. My desire for more of us to learn these skills might be at odds with the reality of time and cost to acquire them. Its nice to see that others believe we need more training in this area.

I will try my best to offer the course(s) in a way that balances all these concerns while still making it realistic and valuable. It cant be rope rescue in name only. I dont want a bunch of course graduates with 2 days of rope rescue training if that training is not enough to realistically help them in an emergency.

These are the concerns I will be exploring as I try and craft this course/experiment. My idea to offer it in modules as described above may be a way to test the markets willingness to attain this training, without being all or nothing.

I don't remember if this was the one I took or not. I want to say that it was in about the same price range, sub $500. Part of that was the fact that it was a well established course with a full class. There were more then enough instructors to go around. It was a good ratio. It was class room. The hands on was in doors, not out in the dirt, but that allowed a faster pace of instruction. Click on the course menu at the top for a description.

Not trying to rain on your parade. Just pointing out what is out there. Six long days, 74 hours of instruction, focused on a WFR course. Sub $400. I'd like to see your project happen but even if they can't for any reason attend yours I would strongly recommend some thing like this for every one.

I do think it is a good idea to open it up to a wider audience. In some ways it may begin to change peoples perceptions about base jumpers. You are however competing with established courses. Perhaps you could work with local guiding companies and coordinate with their recertification schedule.

It would be nice to hold them near popular objects. Not just so people can go jumping after wards but to involve those communities. It might pay dividends to involve to local paramedics, doctors, rescue personnel, etc. It might help to change their perception of the sport and garner a little local favor.

Lee

Lee, which course are you referring to? I dont see a link.

Sorry, I always do that.

http://wmutah.org/products-page/wfr-courses


http://wmutah.org/wfr-courses

Lee

Lee,

Thanks for the link.

There is a wide variety of quality with these courses and no mandatory standards. NOLS, WMI, etc 7 day courses are all 700 to 900 dollars for Wilderness First Responder.

Now, that is not to say that just because that course you linked to is 395 that its necessarily not as good, but that is my suspicion. I suppose its possible that its run as a non profit, or has some other advantage that allows them to run a good course for 1/2 the cost. I suspect they just use one instructor, have little or no mock exercises, etc. Thats just a guess. Maybe they are killing it.

Ill look into it though.

My primary motivation is helping the community. If I were to find a course like that, in Moab, I could audit it and if its good maybe just help them market it to base jumpers. If they can somehow offer a quality course for 50% less, it would be better to just help them help us rather than start from scratch. That would fulfill my mission.

Ill see what I can find out.

As I suspected, that cheaper course is sub par. It is taught mostly by instructors who have no real world experience, the curriculum is seriously out of date, instructor to student ratio is very low, and there is little hands on learning.

Good training costs $.