Basejumper.com - archive

so off topic, but out of curiosity, how many BASE jumps do you actually have? i'm doubtful about this 3250 number you have in your profile. also, i'm curious as to when you made your last one.

I asked him what number his ill fated triathalon base jump was at go fast and he said #3005... And that was a good 10 years ago.

Off topic, but I think a lot of us our curious.

I heard he only has one tandem off the NRG back from when Nixon was president.

Your admission that I'm now living rent-free in your head is indeed off-topic. If there is anything I said above that is not clear to you, please ask and I'll be happy to respond.

44

It was Reagan, actually, given that Carl & Company didn't make the first "modern" BASE jumps from El Capitan until four years after Nixon left office. My first solo BASE jump happened the year after those El Capitan jumps. Carl was my mentor and that jump is chronicled in Carl's second film, The Royal Gorge Bridge Jumps, which Carl called "the second most important jumps in the history of BASE jumping." But yes, I only have one tandem BASE jump from NRG. It was my first and so far only tandem BASE jump and it was also the world's first tandem BASE jump, performed with Ted Strong after I watched him make two solo jumps on his then-revolutionary new system (using a 40-ish BASE pilot chute on a ten-foot bridle in lieu of the standard drogue).

Here's a photo, taken with my camera by Andrew Calistrat:



And here is the video. Look closely and you can see that I push back into Ted's chest a bit because he had gone a little head-low on his solo jumps. We still went a touch head-low but not enough to hurt anything. Dead-center double-standup on the sandbar.

A month after that, I made my second BASE jump, which resulted in this picture:



All this off-topic tangenting is of course is Exhibit A for the affirmative that so many BASE jumpers today have no grasp of history (parachuting or otherwise) and focus on d***-measuring minutiae instead of tracking critical paths, and think a boatload of hucks from the Potato Bridge is superior to decades of experience making first descents from multiple objects and object types. Try again, kids, and try to stay on topic, wouldja? A young man died and we're trying to parse out the whys and wherefores to see if there are lessons to be learned that will help us all avoid a similar fate.


44

wow... classic political redirection.

you have no idea just how irrelevant you are.

but good job on doing the first tandem base, getting arrested, hooking yourself in under a proven [skydiving] canopy, giving great defense [not] in court, and being a fabulous poster of long winded rants that have almost nothing to do with the topic on hand. bravo.

nothing personal, you just suck at life.

and as far as dick measuring, you're the one with [fake] numbers in your profile asshole.

now i'll go back to ignoring everything you post like i used to.

carry on.

To be fair he stalled the canopy at the gorge.

Then answer the question Robin.

Decades of experience are great, but 100 jumps 20 years ago isn't as relevant as you'd think. If you won't post your numbers, it's because they aren't there and neither is your currency? Go ahead and re direct.

Lots of us think your rants are useless.

Put up some numbers-

Tell us how Many base jumps you had when you made bad decisions at the gorge and fucked up.


This thread needs to be split. We're hurting the incident forum, that's the only thing I agree with.

It's like when you argue with Robi and we all shake out head....

_j

+1

+2

Brilliant tag-a-long,Lonnie. Brain-dead followup, Spiderbaby.

Seriously, all of you kids: Instead of baggin' on your elder, suppose you point out where your elder is incorrect or out of line about anything he said above regarding the fatality on which this thread was originally focused until you started pooping in the punch bowl.

C'mon, you tough guys who are so current and so much better at parachuting than I am, and know so much more, and who seem to know chapter and verse about my career... I appreciate the adulation, but really, please tell me what I got wrong above, which actually derives from my personal experience one day at Tombstone, where I did maintain the rear riser flight profile and did a standup landing at the bottom of the wall surrounded by man- (not boy-) sized boulders instead of splattering myself all over them because I let up on my risers.

In fact, this thread should NOT be split; it should remain as a testament to the way in which the arrogance of "currency" and meaningless jump numbers subsumes actual knowledge and the ability to process information intelligently. That is in fact one reason so many of you young bucks are spreading your body parts all over the mountains; nobody can tell you anything.

There's an old saying that the older you get the smarter your parents become. Well, I'm one of your daddies, kids. I started parachuting in 1973 and I'm still doing it 40+ years later. I started BASE jumping in 1979 and I'm still doing it now and then 35 years later. I don't jump as much or as often as I'd like to, but I've been there and done that enough that all I want to do is wingsuit from airplanes and cliffs. I started wingsuiting in 1999 and made my first wingsuit BASE jump in 2000 with Jeb from the Petronas Towers. After my 2004 crash I had to lay off for a while, but now I'm back with a nice new wingsuit I'm wringing out, and my goal is to do some proxy flying where I can fly alongside something high, not fly over terrain over which I can't pull at any time. I may not reach that goal before I'm too old to do it, but that is the goal I've set.

I envy all of you who have the time and opportunity to jump so much more than I do now, and the reason I participate in these forums is to pass on what I know about things that are fundamental and universal and apply to parachuting generally and BASE specifically because I now have 230+ people on my Dead-people-I-knew list and I'd like to help at least a few of you live to be older than you otherwise would.

Many of you appreciate my input and say so in person or in private messages. Those who want to sass your elder, maybe not so much, but, you know, if you don't think what I say is accurate, then challenge it and prove otherwise. After all this kerfuffle, though, not on of you keyboard terminators has yet addressed anything I said in the precipitating post, so until you do, you're a joke and a punch line.

Peace out,

44

Just so everyone knows how this weirdness started, I posted the following about the Twin Falls cliff fatality and then, instead of discussing its substance, several self-appointed base god police chose for some reason to take the discussion in a different direction:


So there you have it.


44

 When I started BASE jumping we respected the guys that came before us, If it weren't for guys like Robin you'd still be playing Nintendo and rubbing one out to pictures in National Geographic.
~J
981

Not to add to this interesting argument but what's the big secret with the jump numbers? I'm just curious as hell after all of this.
Btw you must have pulled pretty damn low to have a 180 at tombstone and not be able to outfly the talus. Did you pull on both risers and stall backwards and then turn it around? Asking because I want to learn more from the experienced guys. Not exactly sure what you riser guys do I'm a toggle guy.

It's a secret because Robin doesn't want to lose his credibility with the BASE community when everyone finds out he has 82 BASE jumps and 3168 other parachute jumps.

Hello, I don't know if this question has been asked before (sorry if someone already did), but I'm curious:
Robin, how many base jumps do you have?

There are a shitload of newer jumpers ( last 5 to 10 years ), who have shitloads of jumps. Most of them will tell you their jump #'s with generalities such as " Oh I have a 1000 " or " I have 8 or 900 now " yet most of them don't have a clue because they haven't accurately logged and their numbers are super inflated, as much as two to three times what they say.
I give Robin more credibility for the first Tandem BASE jump than others for all the 100's of jumps they have hucked off the Potato Bridge.
Last fall a jumper who was hurt in Moab claimed to have " around a thousand jumps ", later I heard that he had around " two thousand " never mind that he had been injured and not made one jump between his thousandth and two thousandth.
if you don't log them FINE ! but quit trying to impress people with BULLSHIT. I'm an active jumper who has been jumping for 25 years and I still don't have a 1000, but the remote sight that took me 10 years to open up and is now being jumped by a select few is worth a 1000 Perrine jumps to me.
I've seen Robin do some stupid shit in his years, but he is still relevant to me as far as BASE jumping goes, I know how many jumps he has and most are worth at least a 100 off the Perrine as far as experience goes,...
Regards, B.

I thought that there was a rule anyway that you are only allowed to log first 20 jumps from Perrine?

Micchi

Robin knows exactly how many jumps he has because he's logged them, the numbers wouldn't impress anyone in these days of legal sites and easy access, but most of them were done when one jump took a lot of planning because they were all ( with a few exceptions ) illegal.
You and I have some mutual friends whose jump numbers wouldn't impress anyone, but the locations of the jumps are inaccessible today and highly desirable objects.
In the context of experience, ( like Robin ), they have a lot more credibility as BASE jumpers, than the people bashing Robin here.
And you have only to look at the recent post about the Croatian Span to realise the BASE jumpers are still burning objects and need to have more respect for the people who paved the way and the objects we have available.
Regards,B.

+1


Actually it's only 15.

i don't know why you wrote that like you are different from me or older or wiser... but likely you are all of those. however, i do respect those who came before me. i also have been polite and respectful. i simply asked a question. when his continuous rhetoric is the only answer, i lose respect quickly.

also, i don't know why this perrine bridge jump thing keeps coming up, but i don't care and in fact totally agree about millions of jumps from a bridge having little meaning. not that it matters, or that anyone asked, but i currently have only 46 jumps from that bridge in my log, which yes i carefully and accurately track each jump and conditions. in fact i had hundreds of much more technical jumps in the dark before i ever even saw that bridge for the first time in person.

respect is a two way street, it's just nice to know where people who are constantly spewing their opinions as subject matter experts are coming from.

so anyway, none of it matters, but now my opinion has also been aired. keep on keeping on. hugs and kisses.

Want to know the secret how to rack up jumps quickly?
Simple: quit logging, and just watch them multiply

I prefer sneaky urban missions to the Perrine but
both are fun ways to exercise with unique people

EDITED TO ADD ATTACHMENT

I have a few more than that. I've changed my profile back to the way it was for many years.

Credibility, 570? LOL... you haven't addressed whether what I said about the Twin Falls cliff fatality is correct or not, either.

Seriously, any of you? I mean, it's cute to see y'all so obsessed with me, but kinda sad to see such process and procedural deficiency that none of you heroes can even form a thought about the technical discussion I started, much less make any substantive contribution.


44

+ about 1,000

Thanks to you and the others who added some much-needed perspective to this silly thread.


44

Sounds a very familiar story.
Still raining?

What's with the ad hominems? If need be, discredit the argument, not the person. Even if someone has zero BASE jumps they can still be correct where another with a thousand jumps is not.

Does anyone know how many jumps Carl had before his death? If it transpires, not THAT many, does it mean we can dismiss his contributions to BASE?

To be fair, you have no clue.

I jumped a field-packed rig, then didn't clear one brake as I dealt with the oncoming wall, then hit a rotor above the hilltop that collapsed one side of the canopy that was already flying on the ragged edge. I made too many mistakes to live, but I did anyway, so there's no accounting for God's taste, but here I am still slapping around noobs who think they have too many BASE jumps to bounce and think "history" means the sandwich they left in their stash bag for a week and listen only to those people whose Me-Me-MeTube videos are the most "current."


44

It's the first jump of any type. You can log your first unpacked, your first stowed, your first PCA, your first aerial, etc.

Well, you can log them. You just can't count them.

Hi,

There was no big secret with the jump numbers. I listed my actual jump numbers for ten years, then last year changed them to 11,000+ just for fun because some hero noob obsessed on the numbers. Then I changed them to my total jump numbers to make the point that parachuting is parachuting, and all of your jumps count.*

It was in fact a social media manipulation experiment akin to (but exponentially smaller in magnitude than) what Facebook did in tweaking news feeds to see if it affected how people acted. This thread shows some of the results.

I have now concluded my experiment, and this morning I changed the numbers back to what they were for ten years -- and thus visible and accessible to pretty much every one of the yayhoos demanding to know how many jumps I have.

As for Tombstone, it was low because it was legal.

Sounds funny, yes? It was at one of the IBPC competitions -- 1997, I think -- and I was on the staff. Jumped a Sorcerer at the time (a "death rig" according to the "experts" at the time because it was closed with... a pin), and spent a number of hours working the edge with a radio and wearing my rig -- and sitting with my rig on. This was not typical during that time: As Stealthy B said, much of my jumping happened during the times when most jumps were illegal, so you never sat around for long periods with a rig on because there was no such thing as "staff" at a BASE jump site.

The sitting compressed the pilot chute so when I pitched after my normal 2 seconds, it streamered for an extra second or two. Being slider down, 4 seconds made for a brisk opening which veered me off heading... more like 130 than 180 because I got on the risers and started backing off and turning away.

I was already very low and then, because i had my DBS a bit too D for my weight, it stalled back toward the wall until I let up a bit but not completely -- if I had let it surge, maybe I would have cleared the talus; maybe not.

What I knew for sure was that my rate of descent (easy to see because the wall was just a few feet away) was survivable, and survivable without injury if I worked it right and had a bit of luck.

Then I looked below me and saw a safe space between wall and boulders (again, just a few feet wide), so I held the rears and sank it straight down and ended up doing a standup with the wall two feet behind me and car-sized boulders two feet in front of me.

That is what I meant about staying on rears until you are SURE you are clear, using rears as a flight MODE, not a flight MANEUVER.

There is a lot of subtlety in parachuting that can make a big difference in how things turn out. That is why I posted the information I did which precipitated this kerfuffle by the hero noobs.

Anyway, thanks for your question, and I'll let one of the other "riser guys" fill you in on the pros and cons of risers v. toggles. In fact, there are already some threads about that on this site, so maybe Tom or someone can direct you to those.


44

* A few years ago, Jeff Nebelkopf started wingsuit BASE jumping to film Jeb, and Jeb was amazed at his BASE skill set from BASE jump #1 on. But then, Jeff already had 6,000 skydives and 2,000 wingsuit jumps, which led Jeb to say, "total jump numbers DO matter, a lot." He also trained Roberta, Mancino, who had about 7,000 jumps at the time, and that experience reinforced his observations because she took to BASE and, more specifically, tracking jumps and wingsuiting jumps, like the proverbial duck to water.

So total jump numbers do matter. This is so obvious it should not have to be said, but for some reason there is this notion among hero noobs with their "I don't log" jump totals that only BASE jumps count, even though they don't actually count them.

Total jump numbers do matter, especially wingsuit jumps. Of course, if you zoo the exit it doesn't matter does it?

I was on Jeff's 5th wingsuit BASE jump, I believe at K_____ in Switzerland in 09 I think. I remember asking him how many jumps he had. I chuckled and said jokingly, if you don't fuck up the exit you'll be fine.

Don't get so hurt robin, it wouldn't have become such a big question but you didn't want to answer it.

-j

I have never understood the desire to exaggerate jump numbers.
Surely it is better to be thought of as a solid jumper with 100 jumps than a shit jumper who claims to have 1000 but skills prove they have far less.

Also I think 10 jumps from 10 different objects makes for a far more experienced jumper than someone with say 20, 30, 40.. of 1 easy S.

I don't think it's about jump numbers, it's more about beeing active (more or less) or not beeing active.
Belive me, when the day comes where I stop jumping of objects, be sure I won't give hints or tips to people who actually do this shit...

Exactly. My 127 BASE jumps were made from 35 different objects -- and 15 of those 127 were first descents from objects that had not been previously jumped -- or even considered to be jumpable.

I myself am curious, by the way, just how many first descents all of these hero noobs obsessing about my number have between them, how many times any of them have ever stood on the edge of an object from which no one had ever jumped, on which they had to make a leap of faith in themselves and their ability to assess, analyze and then execute a jump that did not involve following in the footsteps of those who went before.

What do you say, kids? How many first descents do you have out of those awesome BASE-jump totals you have?


44

I hear what you are saying but who the fuck would be daft enough to listen to you anyway Michi? ;)

I think if your technical info is relatively up to date you have a right to impart your knowledge to others.
However if your information is outdated and it is ego talking then you should not be giving advice, especially on life and death matters.

My point was more about irrelevant jump numbers than advice giving though.


Laters

No hurt, just amusement because, as I say above, my actual numbers were there on my profile for everyone to see for ten years until I changed them last year for my experiment. That means you yourself has easy access to them for eight years; maybe that's why experimenters use the term test dummy.


44

205 total objects
109 of which 99.9% sure I was on the opening load. With a further 8 that probably had been jumped before but not sure.

Mikki, old and respected friend whom I've never met, that is by far the dumbest $#^@ thing I have ever seen you write.

According to that "logic," people who quit playing a sport and start coaching it instead have no business coaching because they don't actually do what they are coaching.

All the experience and knowledge and judgment they accumulated during their playing days counts for nothing because they no longer "actually do" what they're trying to coach others to do?

The Japanese word for teacher is sensei, and its literal meaning is "one who has gone before."

It is not defined as "one who has gone before and still actually does this ***."

Your contention ignores millennia of teachers and coaches who impart their knowledge, wisdom and experience to those who come after, even if they don't any more "actually do" what they are teaching.

And then there is Gregg Popovich, coach of the San Antonio Spurs basketball team, which just won its fourth or fifth NBA championship in the last decade or so. Pop never even played professional basketball, so just how is it that he can tell the guys actually doing it how they can play better -- and coaches them to multiple world championships?

Finally, your opinion notwithstanding, suppose you tell me what exactly there is in what I said about the Idaho fatality that is incorrect, that reflects on my now-limited jumping activity, that is not useful because I no longer care to jump from low cliffs? (Been there, done that: S/Ls from 175 feet, freefalls from 230.)

Seriously, Michi, why don't you of all people address the substance of what I said instead of pontificating about the propriety of me saying it?


44

P.S. For the record, I have not stopped jumping off objects; I just don't do it very much any more. I'm upping my wingsuit game, though, and hope to pay you and your lovely valley a personal visit in the next summer or so -- and congrats and kudos again to you for all the wise and wonderful work you've done over the years to keep that valley open to jumping.

I saw two things in the other thread. Most importantly, it was hurting the incident forum, and two you were avoiding an important question.
Years in the sport most definitely counts for something. However, so do jump numbers. Why this question annoyed you so much, made me wonder, as I'm sure it did others. I see it as a sliding scale. Having 3,000 BASE jumps over 35yrs, counts for a whole hell lot more than someone who has 35yrs skydiving, and zero BASE jumps, because although skills in skydiving help........BASE is still different. Also, if you're a "noob" as you are calling some people here with 2yrs in skydiving, 1,000 skydives, and 100 BASE jumps, then you haven't been around long enough to see the things that others who have been in the sport for much longer have, and that doesn't carry as much weight either.

As for those who don't actually log their jumps,.....I agree 100% that in MOST cases those jump numbers end up being inflated. Sometimes it's to boost their own ego, but also I think they honestly do the math and think,....."well I've been jumping my ass off this year so I must have made about 200" or something like that.
For the record, I too stopped logging my jumps 9yrs ago. My last BASE jump I logged was #1,101 (July 16, 2005) +2,000 skydives, although my profile says 1,106, and I've been parachuting for over 24yrs

edited to add: probably 800 of those jumps were illegal and at night, and quite a few alone. One year I made 75 BASE jumps solo, because everyone was too busy with their women or getting drunk

Now THAT is awesome! Respect and kudos big time. I sure would love to hear some of those stories.

And forgive me if I unfairly included you in the hero noob list... IIRC you have not been one of the guys obsessing about my jump numbers.


44

Thanks for the followup, Lonnie, but as I said to another poster, there was no mystery about my actually numbers; they were posted for ten years, which means that, like him, you too had access to my actual numbers for 8 of the 9 years you've been on this forum... and never bothered to look at them or, in your hurry to tag along, just posted a "plus 1" to pile on with the rest without remembering that you've known for years exactly how many BASE jumps I have.

And I say again, neither you nor anyone else has yet spoken to the substance of what I wrote about the Idaho fatality that precipitated this kerfuffle: Last time I checked, no one has yet responded to it in the Incidents forum and, 34 posts in on this one, not one person has addressed the substance of what I wrote in that post, or its lack thereof, or its relevance or irrelevance. I mean, I know ADD is common in this demographic, but Jeez, guys...


44

And a Damn handsome man at that! In a man to man sorta way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkodTydUR0E

I have two I believe both times I was searching for a different exit and jumped something most would not but I scoped it out and Im still here. I think its getting a little harder to find new exits that are not remote.
Just to answer the question I have 70 objects and 2 of them I believe are new but that does not make it a fact.
All of them have been awesome though.
Thanks to everybody else for opening the rest of them!

70 objects, was on opening load of 7. Mostly cliffs, minus 135' bridge. Certainly not many, of course I never considered myself a pioneer., just someone enjoying the sport.

It was a fun time in my life. I thank everyone who opened exits I was to enjoy when I was active. I certainly made sure to try my best not to do anything to get them closed when I jumped them and trried to do the right thing. I.E. buying landing cards, giving Swiss farmers booze, etc

While it's neither here not there, I made 20 jumps into the gorge during the last 2 go fast games and I dont think I would have ever thought to try and take a triathalon 135 into there.

I rode the train through there last fall, and now that I've quite jumping the landing area looks even smaller. Shame it burned.



_j

Still raining where I'm at,....

Oh yes you will Michi! You will tell young jumpers they push too hard and they are all going to die, and you will tell them how everything was much better in the old times

Micke
BASE 268

To be fair, I watched your canopy fold in half while you aggressively sunk it over the hill, live and in person. From the bottom. After I had jumped in the same conditions, right before you. I also helped pull you off said hill. You're welcome

'The beginning of wisdom is to call things by there right name'

I think it's wrong to call that a 450 foot cliff. Makes you approach it in a certain way. Maybe 1st problem.

Never seen it in person, and maybe you can hum past that ledge in FF, but I would measure to the ledge.

Bad weather everywhere? You have nothing better to do?

Weird day that was. Glad You're ok Robin. Good on you Rauk.

To be fair, you saw no such thing.

It was because one brake line was still stowed that it may have appeared to you that I "aggressively sunk it over the hill" but that was in fact not the case.

I remember it all very clearly because I didn't hit my head and was not stunned or concussed from the impact. I can give you a second-by-second playback of the whole jump and list each and every mistake in judgment and execution that I made.

Also to be fair, while you thought you saw me aggressively sink my canopy over the hill, one of the first people to me saw it the way it actually happened: "Dude," he said when he reached me, "that little rotor off the hill got you" -- and he was a guy who, like you, saw it live and in person.

So enough with that, okay?

One thing I cannot do, however, is properly thank each and every one of you individually who took care of me afterward. I do apologize for this, but until I just read this post I did not know that you were among those stellar rescuers -- and you were all stellar.

I know Gardner was there because I knew him and he did most of the talking with me, but I also know that the manner in which you and the others put me on the board and then humped me down that gnarly hill was stellar almost beyond description. I mean, that was a nasty little hilltop and not one of you bobbled or slipped or miscued even for an eyeblink in getting me down to the tracks, and you all followed the EMT's instructions like you were all EMTs yourself. I have no doubt that it is due in some part to what you and the others did that made it possible for me to recover close to 100 percent. You were really that good.

And I've said so before in this forum, though not to you in particular because, like I say, I did not know until just now that you were among my angels that day.

So thank you, sir, for your caring and concern and professionalism in helping me get off that hill and into an ambulance in quick order and without further damage... you rauk, dude!


44

Call what a 450-foot cliff? Are you talking to me or someone else? I scanned my comments and don't see myself calling anything a 450-foot cliff. Please clarify and we can continue.


44

Thanks Calvin, same back atcha for that weird day you had some time after that.

And definitely good on Rauk and the other guys who hauled my broken butt outta there.


44

Sure does sound like you're talking about me. Just curious of where you heard the 2k number from? The media? They're not so reliable.

I started jumping in '06 and quit logging in '10 after 513 jumps. So, I really don't know how many I have and don't really care. I dislike the question when asked "how many jumps do you have?", just because if seems so important to some people.

I have jumped around 40 times since my injury but am laid up again due to infection. So, yeah... I probably still have around 1000 jumps but wtf knows and wtf cares, ha ha.

Carry on!

my pirate flag is bigger than your pirate flag!
jolly on

See the You Tube video (post 22) and comments post 75 in the loudtom 'be careful out there' thread.

I have not seen it myself either, but from knowing only what I see in the video, I too would measure to the ledge. I did that very thing on a jump from the Diving Board in Eldorado Canyon a while back. That too was about 450 feet total from launch to landing, but only 250 until you probably hit something in freefall, so I approached the freefall part of the jump as a 250-footer.

The full 450 feet does count after you are open and clear of the wall, but you can't count it until you open and clear the wall. Does anyone know the decedent's take on the height?

44

p.s. here is the referenced video, and here is the referenced thread section.

He is referring to the cliff where the Idaho incident happened.

I try

Dear dad,

I think you are right about the technical aspect of what happened. I've done the same thing, only it resulted in me dragging my waist thru a tree top.

I also think that if the Perrine close down a lot of noobs would not start in the first place AND more jumpers would listen to the elders.

If you look at open heart surgery compared to jump numbers, twenty years ago a Doctor MIGHT have done three a year, and I don't know, I'm just saying, twenty years ago, open heart surgery was new, the Doctors were just learning and making it up as they go, so to speak. Today, these young cocky Doctors, because of those three a year Docs, along with technology can do fifty a year. And do it well, and can brag about it.

It's the same way with jumpers, out of a plane or off a bridge, I am not a great jumper, I don't log my jumps, I don't care about numbers, I just care about surviving my next jump, learning from my last one, and learning from others who survived or didn't survive there last jump, no matter how many jumps they have or don't have or how long ago they jumped or what ever.

What's important is when I step off the exit or I'm petting my dog, what other people think about me, doesn't matter!

Enjoy life!

Why would I need to agree with you when you were agreeing with me in that thread?
Do you even realize what the hell you are saying half the time?

I was also there that day, standing right next to you on exit, and as soon as that canopy came out everyone was like WTF. You can try to explain things away and tell Rauk he didn't see what he saw but the bottom line is you are an idiot for jumping that canopy in such an unforgiving place. You are an idiot for not releasing one toggle and then trying to fly over that hill with a canopy that didn't belong there. You act like you know what you are talking and give your advice freely on here but then this is the real world example you offer?

You're damn right you should be thanking those people that helped you. You should also learn something from them as well and the next time your fellow jumper is injured, instead of complaining about how it was cutting into your jumping plans and refusing to lift a finger to help, you actually pitch in.

no, 570, it is you who does not realize what I am saying half the time, including now, silly boy.

You see, it seems pretty clear from what I wrote that I asked you to comment on what I wrote about how better to handle that kind of situation, based upon my stipulation that your take on the accident was correct.

I concurred with your take, and used it to offer a way for others to avoid making that mistake in the future.

It was to that offering that I asked you to respond. Sorry if I was not more clear.


44

Hi Ammon,
Yes you are correct in that I am using your incident and subsequent articles in the media to illustrate a point about the generalizations that people make about their jump numbers. I have a number of good friends, one in particular I can think of, who also tell me jump numbers and logging mean nothing to them and to that I say " Wonderful, I totally get your point, the numbers mean nothing to YOU! I am fine with that. " Then I see that same individual ( not you in this case ), telling the media that they have a thousand BASE jumps. Why? Because jump numbers have always been used as a way to define a certain measure of experience and expertise.
You were not the one who claimed directly to me or in the media to have two thousand jumps, that just came indirectly. However, I did read a quote from you after the incident saying you had a thousand BASE jumps, ( it was in the Moab Sun or Grand Junction Sentinel, I forget which ). I did the math on it and knowing when you started and that you are very active in other activities, and were without gear for a while, and had a down period, it seemed impossible to me.
I appreciate that you don't give a shit about jump numbers, but as you can gather from my interest in the subject I actually do and so do a lot of people ( apparently ). MY jumps have been hard gained, my logbooks are meticulous, and I guess it just bruises MY EGO that there are so many jumpers out there with a thousand or more jumps and haven't been in the sport as long as me or been as active. The jumps just don't seem to add up so quickly when you log them, and although "1000 " sounds like such a magical, happy, round number, I just can't seem to bring myself to making that claim until my logbooks tell me I've done it.
I am really happy with your recovery and was blown away that you were back jumping so soon, sorry about the temporary set back.
I'm the jumper who you invited on that load at Electric chair who didn't go, but who was waiting at the Red Rock Bakery the next morning to meet up and jump with you
Get well and maybe we'll get one in if I get back to Utah this Fall,
Regards, B.

Wow man, are you REALLY that full of yourself to think I would remember how many BASE jumps you had in your profile from a couple yrs ago???

As I said last time, I added the +1 to the point of this should be moved out of the incident forum Also, to the fact you avoided the question like a politician with misdirect, and a lot of blah blah, blah blah blah,.....which made me curious as to why?

As for what you had to say about what should have been done in the incident. I won't comment on what the person should have done unless I know exactly what they did do,....and so far I haven't seen video of this incident. The video that was posted may have been from the same site, but was not from this incident. Eyewitness accounts are not always reliable

+1

Don't give up your day job, son; comedy is not your string suit, to wit:

1. Everyone looks all the time at the jump numbers on profiles, as confirmed by the "curious" obsession with mine -- which is precisely why about one -- not two -- years ago I changed that number to something silly (11,000+) and then to reflect my total number of parachute jumps. So enough with that silliness, yes? Of COURSE you look, not just at mine but at everyone's, so this was a process-procedure statement on my part, not anything related to being "that full of (my)self." That particular foible I leave to you and the beta-heroes who keep making runs at me.

2. Now we come to the real comedy. You accuse me of "avoid(ing) the (jump numbers) question like a politician with misdirect, and a lot of blah blah, blah blah blah," then do the same thing yourself by refusing to comment on my remarks which started this whole kerfuffle by saying "As for what you had to say about what should have been done in the incident. I won't comment on what the person should have done unless I know exactly what they did do....and (blah blah blah)..."

The thing is, I used the reported incident only as a starting point to discuss how best to use rears and not dive yourself into the object you just tried to avoid, based on general principles and my successful personal experience.

That discussion is in fact not related at all to what specifically did or did not happen to the decedent so trying to blame your refusal to comment on having not seen the actual footage of the fatality is cow poop, son, as is your caution about eyewitness reliability.

Decedent could in fact have done something totally different than reported and my general discussion about rear risers process and procedure would still stand or fall on its own merits.

Which makes me curious as to why you refuse to comment on it.

Why do you hide behind a lame cow-poop excuse? Answer the question Lonnie.


44

Hey B, I'm not sure where you got the impression that I was ever without gear. At one point I owned three rigs and have never been without something to jump with, since I started.

I was just answering a question from the media as best as I could when I told them "around 1000".

Anyway, good to connect a face with a name on here. Hope to jump with you some time in the future.

Cheers!

Nice! I look forward to it, I'll buy the beer
Best Wishes, B.

Wrong picture, ace.

Here, I fixed it for ya...






44

nice pic.

funny how it was like pulling teeth to get one simple question answered from the self proclaimed social media experiment engineer, and yet now he demands his questions answered without delay.

don't worry Lonnie, you'll eventually find your string suit.

he is slightly right about one thing though... i had a general idea where his numbers actually were, but not exactly, which is why i asked in the first place. because sure, i've been on this forum for a decade, but the newer jumpers he's trying to "internet mentor" have no clue so they likely assume he might have more experience when they see that.

and for the record, i never actually stated anything to discredit his knowledge or anything for that matter, even though i personally would NOT in fact take his advice on anything without a high level of skepticism.

we all make our choices, and as sad as this fatality (which is what the original thread in the incidents forum was about) is, there is really not much to learn from it. all this bullshit about flight modes and how you SHOULD use your risers blah blah is all good and well... but the simple solution is know your canopy and how to fly it as best you can.

so you see the real lesson here is, don't ask robin even a simple question unless you're prepared to see a dozen pages of delusional nonsense in return.

have a splendid day, i have some more "first descents" to attend to now that the weekend is here.

This from a guy who does not list his jump numbers... or his gear...

...whining about 201 words of comment on rear riser process and procedures.

Seriously, check it out, folks. It was this beta-hero who doesn't tell us how many jumps he has who started these "dozen (sic) pages" with his self-indulgent, self-proclaimed off-topic demand to know how many jumps I had instead of discussing the pros and cons of those 201 words and moving forward the conversation on how wall strike fatalities such as that one might be avoided in the future.

So, out of curiosity, how many BASE jumps do you actually have? I'm doubtful that you have any, given your refusal to include a number in your profile, and especially given the brain-dead comment above about how nothing can be learned and what the "simple" solution is (which is about as useful as saying "don't bounce"). Sounds suspiciously like what a whuffo wannabe would say. Also, i'm curious as to what gear you allegedly jump, given that you have not listed that, either. And what I'm most curious about is why you would make such a big deal about my bonafides when you list none for yourself?

Very... curious.


44

God damn you need to teach me how to do that!

See I had a 180 line twist last year that ended up with a cliff strike. I also had a pretty good idea of what went down in those few seconds from pitch to impact - I would even dare to say I remember it cleary. I too could give you a second-by-second playback of those intense seconds under canopy and my desperate actions to correct the off-heading. That was until I saw the footage from my own two gopros of those precious few seconds...
Let's just say there was a whole lot of stuff that:
1) I did, and rightfully remember
2) I thought I did, but actually didn't do at all and
3) Several things I had no recollection of doing but as the video showed, I did them as well

I clearly remember climbing the lines to reach up above the twist. video shows me barely pulling down one riser, not being able to reach above the twist at all with my other hand

Memory under extreme stress is, at least in my case, not the most accurate source of information

hello mr. robinheid,

seriously? I didn't read anything in Lonnie's post that was remotely trying to be comedic and i'd like to point out that he is not your son. the use of the term in your response is an obvious attempt to denigrate and it's not appreciated.

the new interface that basejumper.com has adopted that shows your jump numbers and years in the sport under ones profile is a bit disconcerting. hence I have changed mine to 1 jump in 1 year. this is not accurate, but I always liked the idea that if someone was truly interested in my jump numbers they would have to go the extra step and check out my profile.

the idea that you were conducting a "social experiment" is disingenuous. I feel you were trying to stir the pot. don't you think there is enough animosity on this forum without your feeding into it?

btw I have 31 jumps in 9 years. hardly a stellar amount. i'm proud of every one of them, 31 times I overcame the debilitating fear of death and chose joy. I am a BASE jumper. you know, it's kind of like cock pushups...

you only need one.

Well, the main difference between your jump and mine is that instead of the few seconds your entire jump took, mine took about 7 seconds from launch to full opening, then about 20 seconds or more until I landed. I had time to see things develop, decide on a course of action and then act -- and I still managed to act and/or choose incorrectly at basically every turn. About the only thing I did right was not hit the wall after opening. I also have a fairly photographic memory, so I can "replay the tape" in pretty good detail most of the time -- and believe me, I've replayed this one a lot of times!

Generally, though, you're right that we forget things under stress... both when we're trying to do things and when we try to remember afterward.

In my case, I remember it all afterwards, but I had two stress-induced brain freezes as it happened that directly affected the outcome:

1. When my canopy was flying weird, I was so focused on fighting it around to clear the wall that, after I cleared it and had some clear air for several seconds, I STILL did not look up and see if there was some sort of tangles or knots (or still-stowed brake!) causing the problem... and I remember clearly that I didn't. This was the most critical brain freeze because if I had just looked up, I would have seen that my fingers were holding the catseye against the toggle, I would have cleared the brakes, and then everything would have been peachy even though I jumped a field-packed Triathlon 135.

2. When I'm in a jump airplane, I always have my power-out-on-takeoff plan ready to go, i.e., yelling at the pilot: "Don't turn, fly straight! Don't turn, fly straight" because in so many power-out-on-takeoff airplane crashes, the pilot crashes because he tries to turn back to the airport and salvage the landing instead of just flying straight and making a good landing wherever he ends up... much less likely to be lethal because the plane flies all the way to ground contract instead of doing an accelerated stall into the dirt.

In this case, I didn't follow my own advice. I clearly had some kind of control problem that required a lot of left input to keep the canopy flying straight -- not a good recipe for turning or landing... so I should have kept it flying straight down the tracks and landed in the effing water next to one of the rescue boats. As the old saying goes, you dry off faster than you heal -- and you also get over embarrassment quicker than you heal. But, no, I didn't remember that either as I fixated on trying to fight the canopy to the spot I wanted. I remembered it afterward, though, as I had about a month to reflect on it in various hospitals and hospital beds.

The whole thing still remains a mystery to me because I usually have pretty good situational awareness, and I've handled analogous situations proficiently many times over the years, but in this case I managed to screw the pooch multiple times in less than 30 seconds and what's even more of a mystery is why I'm still alive to talk about it because I definitely should be dead after making that many mistakes.


44

I shaved my balls for this?

I too had just jumped right before you Robin. Was standing there
talking to paramedics Casey and Eric and saw the same as Rauk.
You stalled that Triathalon like a boss... your foot was too gross.

For those of you who don't know Robin all that well, he is an author "Sport Death ", a screenwriter, and at one time was an editor of " Soldier of Fortune " magazine among myriad other occupations, ( and also at one time you were a Private Dick , am I correct ? )
So Robin you will understand and hopefully forgive me for taking editing liberties with your post, ( I've always loved the way the media can do this.)
Attached is a copy of a photo that Robin's Mom Jean sent me when she was driving Robin back to California after his release.
If you ever have the pleasure to meet Robin's Mom she is one of the sweetest, coolest women on the planet, and while Robin was wandering around the edge of Tombstone wearing his Sorcerer she was right along side without a rig, she has no fear.
I'll never forget breaking the news to her about Robin's accident at the Royal Gorge , when she and his Aunt showed up to watch the jumping, she didn' blink an eye, she had been through it before and it was just par for the course.
Robin was the first BASE jumper I ever met, back in 1981, he was a legend then and remains one now, ( not always for the best reasons, but definitely "one of a kind ).
Love you Robin, Regards to Joan and Bob, B.

Legends I was born in 78 so when I was 3 you were BASE jumping.

Just to be clear, this thread has now digressed from Adam's fatal cliff strike to Robin's mom.
What the fuck. Dropzone.com is a different website for good reason.

Just to be clear the incidents forum is where we discuss fatalaties and the General BASE forum is where we discuss Robin's jump numbers and Robin's Mom, and that's where I hopped on this train. Dropzone.com is a different website because that's where SKYDIVERS waste THEIR time with endless amounts of discussing this same old ego driven crap.
Regards, B.

absolutely love this thread. The amount of old school base jumpers in the thread is just so so fun

Yup! we're all just sitting in our rocking chairs reminiscing about the good old days. I hope all the noobs get to stick around long enough to do the same.

he called the shit poop

Nice to see you've come out of your cheap-shot haze and made a substantive comment for a change.

You know, ever since I "corrected" Rauk I've been thinking about that part of my misadventure and the fact that he was more right than wrong in what he said, as are you, which is something I never thought I'd ever see my self say.



You and Rauk definitely saw the canopy in deep brakes because one was not released and I had to pull the other one down to the brake setting level to keep it flying straight.

Trying to keep it flying straight was what I was aggressively doing. I was not in fact trying to sink it or stall it; those actions were a byproduct of my focus on trying to keep it flying straight.

So we all saw the same thing; it's just that you and he keeping saying I deliberately did that and, no, I didn't.

Because of the fundamental mistake I made of not clearing my control lines, the canopy was flying me more than I was flying the canopy -- which led to your reporting error: I did not in fact stall the canopy like a boss, or even an employee; because it was flying in such deep brakes, that little rotor at the top of the hill administered the almost-coup de grace.

However, all this semantic, technical and micro-meteorological detail aside, the bottom line is that I was pilot in command and so the final responsibility for all of it of course falls to me, so, yeah, it is essentially accurate to say both that I aggressively sank the canopy and I stalled it because I was PIC and, after my multiple errors of commission and omission, that was the only move I had left.


44

Thanks for the sweet words, B, especially about Mom. I might add here that she has seen and filmed more BASE jumps at the Black Canyon than probably any other person in the world.

She also guided a number of jumpers to the exit point back when she was hale and hearty (mid-60s)... and routinely waited on them when they needed a break on the way out to the launch point.

One of her more famous and endearing videos was of Mike Muscat. She had already filmed enough launches from the most popular site that she new what the right trajectory looked like and Mike flailed on his exit and went out of sigh doing endos on the wrong trajectory, so after he went out of sight, she said very conversationally to the videocam: "Oh dear, I think he's going to bounce."

Fortunately, Mikey righted his ship and didn't hit the wall (although, per Mom's assessment, he had to land at the bottom on the wall on the talus).

Mom was also there for the very first Black Canyon jumps back in 1981, when BASE 1 and I did a 2-way and four others also jumped, including Larry Jackson, who became BASE fatality #2.

Here is the photo she took from across the canyon right before he scraped the wall and his canopy collapsed on the dihedral (the canopy re-inflated and slammed him against the rock, which killed him, and snagged on a rock slab, resulting in a very long and complicated body recovery):




That jump also ended up in a 1986 Sports Illustrated story.* Here is the pic of me taken by BASE 1:**




Of course, Mom has had her own share of orthopedic adventures. She slipped on ice during a Colorado snowstorm in 2012 (age 80) and ended up with these souvenirs:






This did not slow her down much: Two months later, she was out and about again at her favorite place:



Two years after that, we're both still at it...




44

* The text on the photo page is actually about a jump by BASE 1, BASE 2, BASE 38 and his twin brother BASE 3X. It's a great tale too.

** Just as an aside, we were all jumping skydiving gear. The rig in the pic is a Racer with a pull-out 36-inch pilot chute on a 3-foot bridle attached to a 200 sf Unit in a d-bag, lines s-folded in the pack tray. It had a 26-foot LoPo round reserve in it.

I did a cock push up once and it wasn't even mine. Wait, what?

Actually, I started in 1979 so you were one year old.



But that brings up something else. "Legend" is another word for an old fart people still talk about, and I'll take it!

However, I want to tell you a tale about all you kids out there that will put a bit of perspective on my overall impressions of the newer generations.

It was in 2008 (note I said "newer" not "newest" generation!) in Moab at the end of the first (and so far only) ABP annual convention. BASE 38 and I followed three new kids out to a site that was like 280 feet or something, low even for Moab, and it was getting dark, but the winds were fine, so they decide to jump. Neither BASE 38 nor I had even brought our gear but we sure wanted to watch... and I gotta tell you, it was like two proud papas watching their kids kick ass and take names. It was literally exhilarating to watch them assess the site, decide to go, make their plan and then execute it flawlessly and I mean flawlessly. We're looking at each other going, "Jeez, these guys ROCK." They went about their business so proficiently and professionally and it was just, well, like I said, like watching your kids do something demanding and do it really really well -- and realize they had been listening to you.

And yes, there are indeed a few hot dogs and beta-heroes who think they're too cool for school, but from that 2008 experience (and many more like it) I also know that the majority of you are doing the pioneers proud; you're studying and practicing and doing all the right things that make it possible to make more BASE jumps than old 38 and I ever in our wildest dreams imagined a person could accumulate.

It was much fun being there at the beginning, but it sure as heck would also be nice to be a few injuries and several decades removed from where I am now so I could do what so many of you are doing now.

So don't let me barking at some of you get under anybody's skin too much. I love and respect all of you (even Spidertool), and I'm cheering for you to go even further and faster and closer -- and still make it to the rocking chair B and 38 and I are sitting in between the jumps we're still making now at various rates.

Which is why I bark: If one of you lives or avoids a serious injury because of something I say that gets you thinking or approaching things differently, then it's ten times worth any flames directed my way.


44

Don't wrestle with a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

Hi T,

Sorry for the confusion. I screwed up my own snark: Instead of introducing my reply by saying "Don't give up your day job, son; comedy is not your string suit" -- and then saying how funny he was (D'OH!) I should have stayed thematically consistent by saying:

"Dude, you ought to give up your day job try comedy because you are REALLY funny!"

And then said the rest of what I said. That would have been classic irony instead of the bollixed-up version I presented.

But seriously, of course he wasn't trying to be funny but it sure was laughable that he:

a) blamed me for something started by blitzdwieb; and

b) held me to a standard of conduct he did not himself observe.

And no, the idea that I was conducting a "social experiment" is not disingenuous because what you felt I was trying to do is precisely what social experiments are: stirring the pot. And I would disagree with characterizing some of the interaction on this forum as "animosity"; I call it conflict -- and as the old AI saying goes that shaped my experiment: Intelligence emerges from the interaction of conflicting elements.

By the way, I love your 31 jumps in nine years. That's much closer to my pace these days than most others who still jump... and it means you're committed to the joy of it, not just the adrenaline. When you make a lot all the time, you get used to it, but when you only make only a few, separated by time, your appreciation of it is very different.

Thanks for your note and I hope in nine more years you have 50 or 60 or 70!


44

So Robin, I am not sure how many jumps you have, neither is it important. But since I have more jumps than you and since you apparently are desperatly in need of some knowledge about how to fly a canopy and not crash them. I thought I would take the trouble to give you a lesson.

I am reading your post where you blame a gust of wind for folding your canopy in half becaue you didnt unstow the brakes, it seems that canopy was already in a stall with the brakes stowed. This means either your canopy is a piece of shit (Which I doubt if it was a Thriathlon), or your brakesettings are too deep. Either way, you probably should have not jumped that canopy, or at the very least be sure to unstow your toggles after opening. When you fail at both, you claim that stalling and crashing was the only move you had left. Wrong again. You can get out of a stall by decreasing the angle of attack. Front risers would have contributed to this. But simply getting into full flight with your toggles all the way up would have probably got you out of the stall as well. If one of the toggles doesnt wanna go up, it means its still stowed and you need to release it. Im not sure how an experienced jumper like yourself fails to realize this. You typically describe yourself as so calm and calculated under pressure...strange.

On your second jump from Tombstone you say you flew the canopy on rears and that you landed nicely standing up next to a big scary boulder below Tombstone.

I understand you typically get your supplies of gently used Paracommanders every time one of your old skydiving buddies dies of old age. But FYI a modern basecanopy is normally set up with brakesettings that are just before the stallpoint. (Not in a stall like you practiced at Bridge day.) This is smart because the canopy moves super slow after opening and you have more time to turn it away from the object. But the proximity to the stall point also means that when you increase angle of attack even further, it will stall.
If you yank one or both of the rear risers with the brakes still stowed, it will stall and lose altitude. Turning a canopy with brakes stowed on rears is possible and its a simple intuitive manouver to do, but the adverse effect is loss of altitude. This is why some people prefer brakes to rears. The most effecient way of turning has been discussed on this forum for many years and is still going.

When you claim to have landed softly on rears with the brakes stowed in a boulderfield it suggests to me that your brakes were too shallow. If the brakes were set correct, flying on both rears even just two inches would have stalled out your canopy, and you know how that feels to land right?

Your advice of "keep holding those rears" seem to be based on your ONE experience at Tombstone two or three decades ago with an improper gear configuration. So I think its bad advice to give. Not because I doubt you suceeded, and not because its old, but because stalling a canopy next to a jagged cliff is retarded, stalled canopies can even move backwards if theres a bit of headwind, how smart is that if you are inches off the cliff? Maybe if you get more experience, you would understand these things better.

My advice is to know how much altitude you lose by yanking a 180 riserturn and then returning to normal flight, then plan to open higher than that altitude.

My my my, don't we have our tightie-whities in a wad...

Maybe you should try some stand-up at the local comedy club; surely you'd be better at it than you are at zinging me.


First off, thanks for the news flash about me being an idiot on my Royal Gorge jump in 2004, something I have owned and acknowledged and talked about several times on this forum in varying degrees of detail for.... ten years. So you're a little late to the Robin-was-an-idiot party... I guess you've been so busy working on that movie that you didn't notice.

Now let me address the allusion and insinuation you made about an even older jump, to wit:


For those of you unfamiliar with this arcane reference, it was about a jump that happened on 29NOV03 during that year's Moab Turkey Boogie. The jump itself was "off-site," closer to Green River; IIRC, it was a 180, wall contact, open parachute slid down the wall, jumper landed hard in the talus, suffering serious facial and leg injuries.

I had landed a few minutes earlier and was already at one of only two or three packing mats set out in the dirt for the more than one dozen jumpers. I went back to the wall, where several people were already tending to the jumper, including Jimmy P. who, IIRC was an already-trained first-responder. They had everything already in hand except one important thing: his car keys.

I had driven to the site with this jumper in his rental car along with a younger jumper, and in post-crash scenes such as this, it's often easy to lose track of things like that.

So I had Jimmy & Co. ask him where the keys were (IIRC they were in one pocket), I secured the keys, and then I went back to the packing area for two reasons:

1) As anyone who routinely deals with emergency injuries knows, the only thing worse than not having enough people around to help is having too many people around to "help." So many times, people feel powerless in the face of the injury, so they hang around -- and get in the way. In this case, Jimmy & Co. had plenty of hands on deck to take care of immediate business, plus I asked them if they needed me to do anything else and they said no.

2) People were there to jump and a fair number of us had, and after we policed up the injured jumper and sent him on his way (an ambulance was already inbound), they were going to want to pack up so they could jump again. So, I took the opportunity to make use of the unused packing mat so that it would be clear for others later on.

When I finished packing, I went back to the crash site to get the injured jumper's gear. Again, having been in these situations many times, including a few times for my own misadventures and several times for non-jump car crashes, assault, and so forth) the gear and other personal effects of the injured party often get misplaced or lost or at least lost track of in all the hubbub.

Sure enough, there was his gear, so I gathered it up and put it in the rental car. It was during this part of the post-crash time frame that I came across this young woman who was very rattled by the whole thing and crying and such. I didn't know who she was but I tried to comfort her with an arm around the shoulder and a black death joke about how he had some leg injuries and mashed up his face some but that was okay because he was a dude and he was old so the scars would be cool.

Then I went back to the packing area and some of the other people were starting to gather there as the crash site situation stabilized and the next thing I know there is that girl again but this time she is with some guy I never saw before, and whose name still escapes me, who is madder than a hornet and wanting to fight me because my black death joke freaked out his whuffo squeeze. His conduct was utterly inappropriate and ridiculous and even though I kept retreating, the dude kept coming because he really seemed set on wanting to fight -- and the ambulance hadn't even showed up yet.

Jimmy P. was shocked by the whole thing but ably stepped in and defused it to the point that dude broke off the attack and began attending to his whuffo squeeze again.

The ambulance and several sheriff's deputies soon showed up and we sent the injured jumper off. By then it was getting late and Jimmy decided it was time to call it a day at that site and for further organized activities.

Jimmy and I discussed the jumper's gear and rental car and we decided that I would drive the car back to their place in Moab, and then he and Marta would take care of everything from there.

In the meantime, the accident turned out to be a blow for a young Brazilian named Leo, because he had come from Brazil to make his first cliff jump and IIRC he had to leave the next morning. So a jumper named Dan from Fort Carson CO asked if I would go with them to Tombstone and kinda keep an eye on them -- plus, I had a car, and because I'd packed earlier, I was able to... pitch in.

So off we went to Tombstone. We arrived at the launch point before sunset, and the weather was perfect and Leo was able to make his first cliff jump and end his trip on a great note. Here are my logbook entries for that day:



When we finished jumping and I took the other guys to their rooms, I left the injured jumper's rental car and gear at Jimmy and Marta's place and we notified his wife that everything was secure and under control.

Key takeaways:

-- DO take action based on the situation purpose mood of the moment when someone is injured or killed on a BASE jump (or in any emergency where there is injury). In this case, the jumper's physical needs were under control, so I took care of his stuff and made it easier for the other jumpers to get back in the game after the emergency was over.

-- DO NOT bring whuffo chicks to BASE jumps unless they are properly briefed and sufficiently bad-ass to handle an injury-fatality situation.

-- DO NOT be stupid when you don't even know what you don't know. See the current thread about the Brento fatality (young Russian woman) for another example of somebody being stupid when they didn't know what they didn't know and made a bad situation worse.


44

LOL... get back to me when you can read at a 3rd grade level and comprehend at 2nd grade level.


44

Okay everyone, I'm done with this thread and will not be responding further because I've spent more time on this thread than I should have. It was so much fun I couldn't stop before now, but now it's time to move on, soooo...

Thanks much to everyone for the conversation and the jousting -- even blitzdwieb who got it all going and 0584 for being such a great bad example. I have in fact "met" some cool people on this thread, it even prompted me to dig out some old photos and logbooks, I got to finally thank someone "personally" for his help one bad day so long ago, and hopefully at least a few people have learned a thing or two (from me or from the other posters) about history or staying alive or both.

Hope to meet most of you at a launch point some day or at least share some beers and tell lies somewhere at the end of the day.


44

Gee fucking whizz. Good share. I really do love that jump. Been around the world and it's still my favorite exit. From the tongue of the Serpent we fly. Granted. My precious four were 2004/5. Not 1895.

Robin, you know that it wasn't just your one uncalled for joke that caused tempers to rise. Suffice to say you made several remarks, and your actions demonstrated, just how selfish and uncaring you can be and there were several people that were not pleased with you. I'm glad we could calm the situation and you didn't get your ass beat that day but please next time just keep you mouth shut. I don't care if you are doing one of your social experiments or just being your normal self please keep quiet if you aren't going to help.
I'm not going to debate the facts with you because your long winded diatribes will attempt to obfuscate the facts and put you in a favorable light as always. You are a writer so it's second nature to blab incessantly. That, coupled with your infallible memory, huge inflated ego and the fact you are never wrong in your eyes, leads me to believe Twoply is right, there's really no point. So I will say good job for helping Leo to get his first E. He would have never got it had you not helped out since he was leaving early the next morning. Hooray - you saved the day!

Oh wait a second.... As I scan my logbook from that trip it reads this for the next day:
Jump 466 - Nov. 30 2003 - Tombstone - Late afternoon jump with Leo from Brazil... I guess he didn't have to make that early morning flight as you remember.

 

D.