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Has anything further happened with this? Or is it too complicated. . I could see where this could save precious altitude when needed.

How do you feel it would have helped? They were too low to deploy by the time they realized it, the only thing that would have helped them was a better spot or recognizing it much earlier.

Ill edit post...its a thread on wingtip pouches.

Its an ongoing project for Jojo

http://youtu.be/GM0CaCsXdvc

Are lots of people dying from missed pulls?

Looks pretty cool. Nice to see testing in those conditions. I would be interested to feel how firm his grip has to be to keep from a premature deployment. Great that hes continuing to refine the idea. The one scenario I could really see a benefit is if theres a design of wingsuit that doesnt allow for easy access to the BOC in the future, ie bigger or more rigid wings.

Pros:

• Reduce chance of missed pull
• Deploys PC into cleaner air
• Keep flying through deployment, saves a few feet?

Cons:

• Exposed bridle (on this incarnation)
• Movement between suit and rig could pop pins?

Any other relevant factors I'm not thinking of?

I'd love to see a setup like this. Is there any in Northern California being flown? I'd love to see how the bridal it's covered and the sewing of the pouch

I have been looking into the wingtip pouch recently and I think now might be a good time to bump this thread.

It seems to me that it's the way forward; important pros and not many cons.

I haven't found any feedback from people using it so it would be great if those who use it could give a feedback on it. It would help to know how reliable it is.

How many jumps have you done with it so far?
Besides taking longer to set it up, is there anything else you would consider a con?
Have you ever had any PC hesitation with it?
Have the PC ever gone into the burble?
Have you had any problems with the bridle?
Have you had any other malfunctions with it?
Do you think it affects the flight (wing symmetry)?

Thanks in advance!

https://www.facebook.com/Wingpouch/?fref=ts

A few cons I can think of:

mid air collision, with either another jumper or "other", could result in a premature deployment. A casual bump during a multi way could lead to a premature opening - which would be hilarious if no harm done. Also, there are a lot of jumpers out there that have hit trees, branches and other assorted foliage, and the pouch could change a close call into a horrible accident.

The handle/ gripper is really "locked" on the gripper, you can fly without holding it. So you ll need a really hard collision to make it deploy.

Con: If you slip on exit (Roberta's incident), possible entanglement and extraction of canopy will take longer than throwing the PC.

In a case like Roberta's where you're zipped in and just panic pulling it might actually be better as long as you're not on your back because otherwise you have a bunch of flapping, uninflated wing to reach past instead of just flicking your wrist and then spending the next couple seconds (since it's subterminal and 36''-ish) getting stable.

The bad case is if you're unzipped and slip (low ultimate), but your odds are pretty bad then anyways.

BASE gear works well because of its simplicity.

The pouch introduces more components that can be misassembled and involves routing the bridle from the pin to the jumpers wrist. Both of which increase the risk of premature or possibly delayed deployments.

The PC incidents that have occured are tragedies but have been relatively few. IMO the frequency does not justify the added risk of the more complex system with every jumper retrofitting their gear and retraining their deployment technique.

If safety is the goal then educating wingsuit pilots on safer ways to progress towards low exits & terrain flying would be an obvious project.

It's not just PC incidents though. What about cases like this where you're just barely matching the terrain? https://youtu.be/qBiAo9FD31Q?t=241

That looks like only maybe 10-15 meters AGL. Do you think Ludo, Brian, & Dan would have still gone in if they had an easy bail option without any loss of flight performance? What about the numerous fatalities from jumpers who couldn't get flying quickly and most likely stayed 100% focused on getting themselves flying until they hit the talus?

I've had something similar speedriding. Until impact I had no choice but to be fully committed to landing as gently as possible. If I had a button in my hand to pop my reserve, I might have used it. But throwing your lap mounted reserve means letting go of the controls and giving up as PIC. Hence I've crashed a number of times but never thrown a reserve. Education only goes so far, sometimes shit just happens.

I don't think we need a system that can open lower, we need to fly higher.

What's the vertical loss in altitude when deploying near stall with the wingtip system?

I think this deployment method is really cool and would be great for certain reasons, my issue is the loss of altitude argument. When I pitch, its with one arm going back but I keep my flight profile, I dont nose over, I dont start dropping, I reach back, pull, and return to flight. I'm not sure I even lose any extra altitude during this evolution b/c I have enough speed built up to cover the loss of 1sqft of wing.

I would add one con to the list though, if that yellow cable gets dirty or a rock gets into the fabric, you may not be able to pull. The BOC is a direct pull method where you yourself put the fabric into the wind, this setup is just a release so the PC can get itself into the wind. Releases fail.

I agree with you in theory, but we both know that's not gonna happen. And as we almost saw on Saturday, it's not just low flying that can kill you.

I count 5 wingsuiters in the last 18 months who've gone in because they couldn't find the PC or fucked up the PC throw. That's just the obvious ones. Less obvious are the cases where they've stalled out (like Philippe Jean) and we don't know if they tried to panic pull or not.

The BOC is one of the few parts of a rig that's been essentially unchanged for the last 20 years. Meanwhile wingsuits are getting bigger and exits are getting shorter. Saying it's an education/training problem sounds like the arguments against AADs before the triple bounce in Antarctica.

How many Wingsuiters have gone in hugging terrain in that timeframe?

You're Swiss, you should know how to count.

I don't even see how that is relevant in this discussion?!

This x 1000!

The swiss pouch is an interesting concept, but I put it right along side a reserve canopy in base. If you use your gear properly and make sound choices, you should continue to have the same success that the majority of wingsuit pilots have during the entire history of wingsuit base jumping.

Saying a swiss pouch would have saved ludo, brian, and dan is pretty short sighted, when what would have saved them is better planning prior to exiting the heli. They were incredibly talented pilots, and had the ability to flare and quickly pull. They realized they couldnt outfly the terrain seconds before impact, which I would assume is why none of them even attempted to pull.

Proper training, knowing your gear (how to maintain and carefully pack it) and flying at 50% of your talent and abilities would prevent 95% of all wingsuit fatalities.

You expect ppl to fly with out ego ?

More importantly, isn't it French?

Initial project was from Simon P.(Swiss) and now it s Joel G. (Belgium) "in charge" for wingtip pouch W.

Damn, I was trying to remember if Joel was French or Belgian and I gambled wrong

I would like to say few words regarding Wioletta pouch since I was involved in development and implementation on Jojo's personal WS.
I must say that Jojo did a good job as far as finding best possible way to get the system which will be simple and secure enough. Also he and his friend has been testing this system a lot in skydiving environment as well.

The Wioletta looks clean and relatively simple if it is incorporated on to the suit correctly, especially if it is installed during assembling the suit and not after the suit was made.

Now here is few fact which are clearly my own opinion about Wioletta.

That very system has a lot similarities with WS pouch which I started in early days of WS era. (year 2000)
PC pouch has been there on Skyflyer all the way till Vampire 5
Many jumpers like it many not...
Many of them choose to use it many not.
During all this 15 years of the PC pouch there was some incidents....some pluses and minuses.
All come down to personal preferences only , without any deeper thinking.
Simply some jumpers like it as it was quicker and easier ( safer ) for them.
In contrary , many jumpers still used the BOC as for them it was one extra complication and was harder to find the PC pouch and execute the pull sequence drill correctly.

The one reason why some people never took the choice of going for PC pouch was the different location of the PC pouch than BOC, meaning that when wingsuiting they were forced to remember to go for PC pouch, wile when tracking they were forced to change the routine and go for BOC. In general very small change of muscle memory drill , but very scary and difficult if the stress factor come in to play.
That was the only reason which I respect and I was never suggested strongly any jumper to use that system as MUST, as question of death or life.

Same thinking I have for Wioletta.

Most of the time development of such system which are touching or improving safety come out because the
inventor has the phobia of low pull, hard pull , impossible to find issue , etc...
Wioletta is the perfect show case.

Jojo actually manage to find the way to make his own flying calmer and safer. Will that get the popularity in WS world is yet to be seen.
Personally , I don't think it will as the system is not as simple to be implemented in the quick way to already made suit.
Many jumpers like to stay at well known routine such BOC.
Many good jumpers have no time nor will to even try it......to busy in chasing famousness .

Who are those left who are interested in Wioletta?!
Those with phobia of pull sequence or those who are open to seek the better or easier maybe.
For them , I can only say that Wioletta is well designed and quite simple system.
It require extra care during packing, stashing , pulling out fm stash bag, require extra care while dressing and possibly climbing over fence or brushing next to wall toward exit.
Require really extra care as the PC , bridle and handle are on different place.

In case the jumper find that all this mentioned above is easier to do than stress factor around pull sequence on BOC w WS he possibly should deal with , than Wioletta is good solution.

All the discussion about low pull , quick pull , lack of shoulder movement, weak arm, wrist , etc are irrelevant as prime reason of heaving any different system is to calm down the jumper head and reduce stress factor.
If some jumper will come with spring loaded PC in the future , thinking that this is safest for HIM, very little others can do.

After all we all seeing that skydiving industry doing all possible to make skydiving 100% safe, Same will come as the goal in BASE . That is why you all will soon see two AAD in skydiving :) and maybe even some reserve in the BASE future... ehh.. crazy world , crazy homo sapiens...hate this...

I understand the springloaded pc having value. But IMHO some times old school is great. Peeps of BASE are repeating the same mistakes. Why is the question.
The sport has gone to not learning and gopro and fb and youtube.
This is not new. I think that 6 jumpers FF on the back to Earth film the others and died.
2 would be admissible, maybe 3.
A lot of Jumpers now days do no research IMHO.
It kinda sux for the researchers of BASE.
take care,
space.

This is from the newly created thread titled "No pull find. Please explain." Since it's been 3ish years since the last post on this thread, I thought it might be a good time to give it a bump. Has there been growth in the use of the wingtip pouch? Is it still being pretty actively tested, jumped, and improved?

Some time in the next couple years I would like to get back into wingsuit skydiving. I've been very interested in the wingtip pouch since I first read about it. Are there any incidents you've heard about or had using this system?

IMO it is not enough used, but it has been improved a lot in the last 3 years.
There is a facebook page:https://www.facebook.com/Wingpouch/ about it.
We are a small comunity working on improving it (until a better system will be created), because it can be always better.

I know personaly 10-ish people jumping with it, and some others that I don't know are jumping with it too.

The "most common incident" (as the most common incident in BASE is tension knot) that can happend is PC in the burble, which as you probably know can lead to a bridle knot.
I've created a "bridle sock" to try to minimize the bridle knot: https://www.facebook.com/...ts/10217254075094373
Also with a pressurised PC pocket the PC is ejected a get a bit more away from the wingsuit, which helps to minimize PC in the burble.

Is the "pressurized PC pocket" the spandex liner that ejects the PC? Or has that evolved?

I have a hard time to find the english words for what I want to explain, Google translate is accurrate I hope.
The wing is dug and the created hole contains the PS, when the flaps are released the hole becomes a bump with the internal pressure and elect the PC from the wing, it's not a lot but better than nothing.
What I'm trying to do ATM is to put the PC in a pocket at the wingtip (just over the gripper) so it would be ejected like for a classic BOC pitch.

It seems like you could create a little spandex "trampoline" that the PC sits on, so that it's always under some pressure, such that "releasing" it would cause it to be pushed outward, away from the jumper.

Maybe too hard to describe in a foreign language on the internet though.

Or maybe even some sort of vent under the PC so it gets blown out when released.

I tried spandex, to tight spandex you need something "hard" to use as a base.
If you put spandex on the wing it mostly get the side to each other and not pushing the PC out.
Air pressure is more efficient I think.

I'd rather have a system that doesn't depend on air pressure, so that it's more reliable in a "blown exit emergency pitch" scenario on a short start.

The air pressure is here to put the PC a bit more far from the air turbulences, on an emergency pitch on short start the goal is "just" to have it out, and the basic system is doing it.
Also a wingsuit has internal pressure after 2 seconds I think.