Basejumper.com - archive

Hello everyone, I am brand new to this as well as skydiving. I have made a goal though; base jumping!

I do realize that I need to put in a LOT of hours and research before I do any jumping. This is the start of my trek and with any other hobby I've dove into I know that forums like this with experienced, and enthusiastic members, are the best place to get info.

SO, that being said, I am looking for guidance in order to hone my skills and prep my mind in a timely fashion. For the guys who have been base jumping for awhile; if you started again from scratch, how would you go about?

Thanks in advance,
Devan

http://www.wingsuitschool.com

Start skydiving first, forget about base for a while and focus on having fun...

I have attached two .pdf files to this message.

The first is some general recommendations for preparation.

The second is a set of canopy drills that you should work through on a large F-111 7 cell canopy at the DZ.

I would also recommend purchasing a good tracking suit fairly early in your skydiving career and mastering it as thoroughly as possible.

Buying a trackingsuit 'early' often leads to lots of skill-less solos getting up 'numbers' vs people that truly learn to skydive.

Im not really getting this attitude of promoting rushed 'progression' (for lack of a better word). Get people to slow down, and learn to skydive, before giving them rushed paths towards a base-course...

PM Sent.

I think a tracking suit is a mandatory piece of slider up gear at this point. Recommending that people use their skydiving time to learn to use an essential piece of safety gear is NOT rushing their progression.

BUY THIS BOOK!

http://www.base-book.com

READ SAID BOOK!

POST ON INTERNET.

THE END.

You're going to hear this a lot but honestly just go fall in love with skydiving and the rest will fall into place.
Hanging out at the drop zone, you will start meeting the right people and as long as you have a humble attitude, by the time you have enough skydiving experience to safely start learning to BASE jump, you won't need to be asking on a forum.

One other piece of advice, when you do go and start to skydive, keep the base dreams to yourself for a while. No one is impressed with the AFF student who is already talking about BASE jumping and it could actually work against you in the beginning.

Good luck!

not everybody wants to have skydiving as their hobby. I know mind blowing right?

Right? Skydiving is like SOOOO 1990's. OMG. Everything I need to know i learned in AFF anyway. Totally radical dude.

You learn to track and control your body by focussing on skills. Not putting all trust in a piece of gear, and rushing towards doing all kinds pf things prematurely.

To many people get tips on rushing vs actually telling them what they need to hear. Those are the same people that show up on exits with barely enough experience to survive, but it doesnt matter as they 'did all the training they need' according to your list.

Common sense is much more important to install, then always giving everyone the bare minimum as an advice. And at the same time we wonder why the overal skill level in beginners isnt what it should be.

hyperbolic friend but I appreciate the humor. There is of course a middle ground where one uses skydiving for a little while to learn skills and then transitions into BASE jumping. not everybody wants to skydive for their whole life. the cliched advice to forget BASE jumping and just be happy skydiving is so lame.

I personally skydive as an end into itself but I can envision others that would not want this. there's nothing wrong with dropping skydiving.

I've had a couple PM interchanges resulting from this thread. I just wanted to post some thoughts here, because it sounds like there are a substantial number of people "teaching" (and I use the term loosely) who believe that new jumpers should only be prepared for easy, daylight jumps from legal bridges.

Subterminal tracking is a critical safety skill. Being able to land downwind and crosswind is a critical safety skill in BASE. Accuracy is a critical safety skill. Off heading correction is a critical safety skill. There are many, many things that are less important, which I see taught in "courses" out here.

Training critical safety skills (canopy skills for bad landings, subterminal tracking, off heading management, etc) helps prepare new jumpers to better survive the realities of BASE jumping. Pretending that they won't need these skills and shouldn't practice them does them a great disservice--it's akin to sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the realities of BASE jumping.

If we train people only for situations where everything turns out right, they are going to be in a lot of trouble when something goes wrong.

A good training progression will follow a set of goals to develop a specific skill set. Just repeatedly falling off a bridge some number of times is NOT a training program. The bizarre idea that falling off a bridge X number of times somehow prepares you to jump a cliff is a dangerous artifact of the skydiving mentality (where all licensing and progression is benchmarked by jump numbers).

Preparing doesn't just mean preparing for good outcomes. To be truly prepared, you must be ready for the worst.

Telling people not to prepare creates a false sense of security that will only do them harm in the long run.

youre not gonna find me at the dropzone every weekend all weekend, i simply dont have those funds or the absolute passion for skydiving like your normal dropzone monkeys.

but depending on what types of BASE jumps youre getting into, its rediculously important that you spend at least your off seasons at the dropzone honing in your tracking/wingsuit skills to stay current at the very least. im usually the guy thats flying alone not because im anti social but because im working on the shit that will keep me alive in the terminal/subterminal environment, currency being the most important aspect of it.

Lack of passion and lack of funds sound like valid reasons to skip training. Not disagreeing with the rest of what you write, nor the list of things mentioned by Tom. But stating that the guys who do that stuff in a few skydives (trackingsuits, downwinders etc) often are a lot of things besides 'safe'.

Its all good advice, but the term 'experience/trained' is often wrongly put on something 'done a few times'. And adding some common sense, dedication and urge/importance of actual skills/experience to that advice would result in a much safer sport vs enabling low/no experience jumpers in their rushed path to youtube stardom.

The bare minimum isnt always enough..

Telling them to buy it 'as early as possible' in their skydiving career is.
Its often preventing people from learning the real important skills through actual exposure to the sport.

Sure a trackingsuit is a nice addition when a person has tracking skills. But it doesnt change or add a single thing to their actual skills/experience by itself. And often leads to people that are more dangerous in both sports, due to mostly 'planking' on solo skydives.

Again, adding the importance of gradual and prolonged learning to what you teach would be a good addition. Its not a bad thing to spend more than the 150/200 jumps asked for a commercial FFC. Spending more time on explaining accumulation of skills can take longer, would go a long way.

If all else is equal, more preparation is always better.

Which means that if you can, making more skydives is always better. So is making more paraglider flights, taking more rigging courses, packing more reserves, doing more high angle rescue, getting more medical training...the list goes on.

However, I think focusing on some arbitrary number of skydives is missing the point.

I've seen plenty of people with 500+ skydives who had done ZERO applicable preparation. Yet they thought they were totally ready for BASE because they had accumulated more than the arbitrary minimum number of skydives. This is a VERY dangerous attitude, and it is reinforced by a focus on getting X number of skydives.

We should be focused on building skills that will transfer into BASE--not on making some arbitrary number of wing suit skydives on a swooping canopy.

But this exact advice to learn more, do more, experience more, is often misssing. Something 'buy a trackingsuit asap' and a supplied list of things to bang through asap for sure doesnr mirror.

Sure a 'number' is a magical thing. But when it comes to odds/percentages, the lesser experienced for sure aren't of better.

Said lists and people with 80 skydives going through them asap create more dangers than safety. Spending more time on gathering the skills is a large handicap in current mentality.

+1
Right or wrong, this is my opinion. In life, I always watched other people fuck themselves up and figured out what they did wrong, and then did the opposite. It has served me well in over a decade of BASE and 23 years of skydiving.

Step 1: Get into skydiving. Concentrate on your canopy skills.

Step 2: Get the tracking suit and WS idea out of your head right now. Learn to fly your body without any help from additional tools. We have more the one axis. Learn to fly all of them...better to have the skills and not need them then to need them and not have them. Concentrate on your canopy skills.

Step 3: Track, Track, Track. Concentrate on your canopy skills.

Step 4: Concentrate on your canopy skills. You may want to downsize and fly fun / fast parachutes. I love flying little canopies. Downsize according to your skill level / ability and when you decide it is time for BASE, work on your BASE canopy skills.

Step 5: When you are ready, get a tracking suit and beginner WS. Get some WS instruction by someone who is a WS Pilot, not a buddy who happens to fly WS. Your WS skills will progress much more quickly with instruction. Concentrate on your canopy skills.

Step 6: Take an FJC or get a "Qualified" mentor. And just because a person has a thousand BASE Jumps does not mean they are a qualified mentor. Concentrate on your canopy skills.

Step 7: Take your time with BASE. Big walls are awesome, but they have also been the objects many people have died on. Progress because you have the skills. This isn't golf. There are no mulligans in BASE. You get zero "cool" points when you are no longer with us. Concentrate on your canopy skills.

Step 8: Get into WS BASE when you are ready and go with people who are experienced at the exits you will be flying. Have them help you. Fly the lines because you can, not because everyone else is.

Personally, I think the 200 skydive number for BASE is bullshit. At 200 jumps, you know just enough to be completely stupid. But, I guess the number has to start somewhere.

Peace. Be safe no matter what you decide.

That's definitely true.

But everyone has a limited amount of resources (time, money, ability to travel, etc) in their life.

The real question is _how to spend those resources_.

I would much rather see a prospective student spending their resources on learning to track than on swooping, for example. And I'd rather see them use their resources to learn first aid and rope rescue than to make skydives 1100 to 1200.

And if BASE is their goal, I would much rather see them stay on a large canopy (preferably an F-111 seven cell) than follow a skydiving "progression" of downsizing.



I frequently (every week) encounter students who need to "un-learn" bad habits they've developed at the DZ, such as:

• The mentality that more experienced jumpers use smaller canopies

Many new BASE jumpers have a mental block instilled from skydiving that makes them want smaller canopies. It's almost as if their pride is hurt by the suggestion that they should use a larger canopy.


• The habit of making a lot of hard toggle turns and sashaying to set up a landing

BASE approaches often demand a straight in accuracy approach, and sashays will frequently bring a canopy over the edge of the LZ, and into the turbulence zone at the edge of the thermal area.


• The idea that the best way to train for something is just to make a jump and try it.

Skydivers "practice" by making skydives. If you want to try a front loop, you just go for a skydive and try it. Directed training in a safer environment (a swimming pool for aerials for example) is often a very foreign idea to skydivers.


• The idea that "canopy control" is analogous to swooping.

Most skydivers think "better canopy skills" means a longer, faster swoop. They have no conception of deep brake approaches, flares from part brakes, crosswind landings, or dozens of other canopy skills that are critical safety elements in BASE.

• The idea that tracking is just a step on the road to wing suits.

Tracking is a critical safety skill in it's own right, and should be trained for specifically. It is much more than just training wheels for wing suiting.


Those are a few examples, but the list could go on and on.


I would MUCH RATHER make contact with these people early in(or even before) their skydiving career, to try to reduce the number of bad habits they learn at the DZ.. These habits that can injure or kill them in the BASE environment, and I spend a substantial amount of my teaching time trying to "un-teach" skydiving habits.

Giving people information early and often is NOT a bad thing.

Not a single one of those is good reason to skip steps and rush into an even more dangerous sport. And especially not on the instructional side, a validation for assisting people in that rushed attitude.

As to your list of 'bad' skydiving habits. The full 100% reads like a problem in mentality. And in every case, even more reason to try and talk reason into people and create a safer attitude towards both sports. What your stating isnt factual problems with skydiving as a training/preparation tool. Its more a signal those people should not be participating in either sport. But I guess there we always have someone willing to teach them basejumping, instead of telling them to slow down. And neither person teaching daring to step up and say 'no' as otherwise 'someone else will teach them anyways'. It doesnt hurt to be a bit more direct and honest to people. There is no rush. And the base minimum doesnt always cut it.

For sure, not everyone wants to skydive more. But for sure...99% of them would need to..Giving people information early and often is NOT a bad thing.

Honestly, I try _very_ hard to do that every time I teach.

I know that you've never sat in our classroom for the "Risks of BASE" session, but it is the very first thing I do in every Fundamentals course, precisely because I think that an appropriate assessment of the (rather large) risks is important to participation in BASE.

Telling people that "we don't bore you with that classroom stuff" is definitely not my style. I think that stuff is very important, and at the top of the list is trying to instill a true appreciation for the real risks involved.

Making people sit down and actually _learn_ things conveys the message that we need to go slow and really learn things. Describing those things as "boring stuff" definitely carries the opposite message.

The message given/received at the outset of BASE training is critical, and I think that there are many instructors who are sending the totally wrong message (that you don't need to bother with the "boring" technical stuff). Telling people to focus on those technical details conveys the opposite message--that they need to prepare.

If the message is "go make X number of skydives" then that's what people will do. If the message is "work on building skills" then people are more likely to do that.

People who understand that moving through BASE requires a focus on training and developing appropriate skills are going to be a lot safer than people who think "hey, I've got 50 jumps off the Perrine Bridge and did 20 unpacked jumps and 10 gainers, so I'm all ready to head off to Moab."


People with a large number of skydives often assume (mistakenly) that they don't really need any BASE instruction, because their skydiving has taught them everything they could possibly need to know. I think this is dangerous overconfidence, and I see it frequently from new BASE jumpers, who are still in the mindset that they are the very experienced jumpers they were back in the skydiving environment. The fact that they've far surpassed some arbitrary number makes them think they are "more than prepared" for BASE when in fact they are very unprepared.

We need to focus on skill development--not on numbers.

great post, but i think you missed the part about flying a canopy proficiently.........

This is really important. I think the 200 skydives thing is bullshit as well. It's not like you hit X skydives and can now become a BASE jumper. Someone straight out of AFF can do 100 perrine PCA's / static lines with decent wind conditions safely. Someone with 500 skydives and 50 base jumps can easily get broken horribly in Moab if they aren't totally aware and honest about their skill set and instincts when things go wrong.

From PCAs at the perrine to antennas in fields with a tailwind to triple gainers and tweeners off low slider-down cliffs, BASE itself has a HUGE difference in risks. Skydiving is a different sport. I think someone making good decisions and a slow progression once BASE jumping is more important than a slow progression into BASE, although a fast progression to BASE shows many warning flags that you are likely not ready for something that involves great caution and risk management.

Seriously...anyone that starts BASE should stick with flat and stable off high spans, good lzs, and antennas in fields with a tailwind for quite a while. So many people don't grasp the huge increase in risk once you move up from there.

Most importantly, anyone with poor risk assessment and/or anyone without a lot of patience and caution shouldn't ever get into BASE.

I don't think all people are ready for base jumping just because they hit 200 jumps, but I believe that when you get that number of jumps you should have the knowledge to decide for yourself if you are ready or not. You know more about the risks, how canopies works, how to behave in freefall and even more important, you know more about your own skill level. Some people need a lot more than 200 jumps to be ready, and other will never be ready, but at 200 jumps most sane people should be able to decide this for themselves.

Telling people to be happy skydiving and forget about BASE is a lot like telling people to stay away from drugs. It's good advice, and definitely the right thing to do, but it ignores reality.

The reality is that people who want drugs, find drugs. And these people would be better served by being educated about the real risks and safety measures associated with taking said drugs.

BASE and drugs are the same, in more ways than one.

If looking at it in such a black and white view, it does.

But with good advice and guidence on what to practice, and to spend more then just a handfull of jumps on a quick list/tickbox to cruise through you can easily have people spend a bit more time on skydiving.

Ive seen many people actually hold of on base a bit longer, and just take a slightly slower course because someone took the time to talk them through and reason with them.

vs throwing them a list and 'buy a trackingsuit asap!!!'.

Im not saying we should keep people 'of base', but just saying (or perhaps its asking) if its possible not to always recommend the 'highway to awesome' shortlist, but instead try and add a small bit of actual reason and sanity as well.

I know Ive seen that work through people giving good advice. To me the harsh view 'they'll do it anyway' seems a bit fatal/lazy, and for sure isnt one thats making the sport safer in the long run.

Guidance and training in important, 100% agreed. But also make sure people see the difference between 'training' and 'trying something a few times', and put some actual effort in.
Not everybody wants or cares to skydive, but for sure most would need it....

Definitely agree. More training and more skydives are always better. And to Tom's point, so is more climbing, medical training, mountaineering, extreme rollerblading, etc. Most reasonable adults will see the wisdom in more preparation.

I think at the end of the day there's a healthy grey area between, "forget BASE and skydive more" and "do these 10 things next week and you're ready!" In my view, that grey area is 200 skydives and a proper FJC such as Snake River Base or IDB.

Mccord, have you heard of the straw man fallacy? if you haven't then you should look it up. because you are beating the most gigantic straw man ever in this thread.

+1000000000

This really has made my day. Thank you.

The original wording was:

“I would also recommend purchasing a good tracking suit fairly early... “

And then quickly morphed into the following:

“Buying a trackingsuit 'early' “

“Telling them to buy it 'as early as possible' “

“Something 'buy a trackingsuit asap'”

“vs throwing them a list and 'buy a trackingsuit asap!!!'”

Beautiful.


Edited to add quotes.

I've always said that a great way to see if you are ready for BASE is to seek out BASE jumpers at your DZ, get to know them, state your intentions and let them be the judge. If they are good, honest people and they have no reason to be bias, they are the best gauge. They have been around, they have seen how people's attitudes to skydiving and life in general can carry through to their BASE head space and they can see how you behave during Skydives..

It's pretty straightforward really. If you just follow these four simple steps then all the little details will fall into place and you will be a "BASE Jumper":

1) Start skydiving.
2) Stick around long enough to see at least one or two of your best friends die.
3) Truly realize it can actually happen to you as well.
4) Start BASE Jumping.

+1

Hi,
I started to get into BASE after 103 skydives jumps, just the minimum to do it.. Then I had another course when I had 150 in Europe.
Of course more you skydive , more you learn about the canopy and the landing but still doesn't make you better than someone with less jumps.

What I think fundamental is to have a right start, teaching , to avoid to speed up too much with wrong attitude.
I did in States the Apex course, and had the occasion to spend some hours with Tom , SRBA, to learn about BASE....

2 different approach to BASE, 2 packing different packing style, great feedbacks. I just regret I didn't have more time to spend with SRBA, really a great method of teaching and more , a great way to learn "breath" about BASE.

I would suggest to take both courses,... Really useful .

This reminds me of something my AFF instructor (Lenn Taylor) said when I was doing AFF. He said that when someone says they have 100 jumps, sometimes they really mean that they have the same jump 100 times. The point is that if you aren't learning something on every jump, then jump numbers don't mean anything.