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Sorry for the possible repeat discussion. Just wondering how many people out there have had a line over or heard of someone having one slider down. I read a post from 2006 and people were talking about seeing a couple. Only concerned about slider down with a tail gate properly in place. No roll overs or any unpacked jumps either, just your standard slider down jump with a tail gate properly used.

I know it's been brought up before, but curious why people still use the line release mod if they jump in places that have more demanding lzs, especially with tail gates, tail bury packing, and line release toggles.

Thanks for the help

Edit to emphasize I meant slider down only

https://vimeo.com/96435195

Here's a video of my lineover from Bridge Day last year. As the canopy reaches pressurization you can see me get swung around in a full 360. It dove behind me and as it did I realized quickly what was going on and gave a big toggle pump. Luckily that cleared it. Would have been bad on a low pull or different object.

All I can think of as a cause for this is the low delay slider up. Lots of stuff moving around up there on opening. My packjob was good. Line tension, lines in the center, clean, primary stow double wrapped, etc. No tailgate but slider quartered neatly.

you heard about a couple of slider down line overs in 2006? I have only heard of slider up line over is happening.

Can't tell if that was sarcasm, but yeah Tom A mentioned seeing 3 of them at the bridge.

Here is one too slider up

I may be missing something here... but what does line release mod have to do with the level of "demanding" of an LZ?

Are you suggesting one cannot fly the canopy as well with LRM?

If you are using lrm, there's a good chance of blowing a brake line and landing with one brake. For many of our landings, it's a small little area surrounded by boulder fields or a small little foot trail to land on. Would be pretty hard not to get hurt landing without both brakes.

Sorry my first post was pretty confusing. Just wondering if during your normal slider down jumps the lrm is overkill for jumps that don't have much landing forgiveness.

Heres a small slider down line over that cleared itself, tailgate was used.

I will say that I've never blown a toggle slider down

I pretension the toggles and make sure they're seated well... I'm not too sure that with good gear maintenance you need to be worried about blowing a toggle.

I mean stuff happens every now and then... but that's like getting a 180 on a static line... sucks but pretty rare if you're doing everything right.

couldn't you say the same about line overs? I agree though, every jumper needs to make their own decision and weigh the risks of that jump. At twin I would always use the LRM. At places with higher consequence landings, I probably wouldn't use it.

I haven't either, but I have seen it happen quite often. However, I have never had a line over nor have I known anyone who has slider down...

I don't know... I've had some high consequence landings and gone LRM and it all worked out fine... so I think it all boils down to preference I guess.

I had a small line over in Twin Falls on an unpacked jump once. Hang on... I'll try to post a pic

Can't find the pic right now...
But here's my thing:

Would you rather ride a spinning lineover with no LRM to the ground or a crappy landing with rears?

Very true. The only reason I could even disagree in the slightest is that I feel a line over is much more rare. Playing the percentage game would favor not using lrm, but the consequences of a line over are much higher.

I'm advocating against LRM nowadays because :

1) With TailGate / SliderGate the occurence of lineovers is really small (i think it still happens sometimes mainly because of improper config of the gate (too easy to open))

2) Whatever the landing and the pilot skills it's harder to land a canopy with the riser(s) and easy to get injured in that configuration - and loosing a toggle by mistake is easy enough to see it happen every once in a while.

3) In case of lineover we still have the WLO's and/or a hook knife (even if slightly more time consuming)

but im sure LRM might still be interesting for some very specific jumps

..i also met a jumper who just did 4 jumps in LRM config slider up at the brento this year...go figure :- )

I agree 100%. I´ve written this multiple times on this forum but I strongly believe that the LRM is a thing from a past which people have just been taught to do and they actually never thought why are they doing it. Whenever discussing about this topic I´d like make an example about one craneboogie that happened in certain eastern european country couple of years ago. We had about ~40 jumper present, all very experienced jumpers who knew how to pack and configure their gear. We made roughly 400 (not sure about the exact number, just my guess) jumps during 4 days and I witnessed 0 line overs but at least 3 toggle fires out of which one resulted in to a bad landing on a concrete and multiple fractures. So even if you are experienced, know how to pack and all, toggle fires with the LRM do happen so if you´re jumping with this configuration, be prepared and practise a lot of landing with the risers.

Personally I think it is a choice to use LRM or not. There is not a "right" or "wrong" way. Each choice has pros and each has cons. It is just for each jumper to figure out which choice has more pros that outweight the cons from their point of view.

Slider down? packing error I think? maybe I am too confident in the tailgate system :/

Anne Halliwel filmed every jump from above at Petronas Tower in 2001, and figured out a line over was more common than we did know, but most of them cleared itselves in opening. Cant remember the statistics, but quite a few, got a long face when they saw their openings. Thats when quite a few started taping their lines slider up.

Did they take any more data after taping the lines to see how much it cut it down? Also, how often are you talking? I was wondering how often it would contribute to a severe off-heading/line twists.

So I literally just got a text message from a friend, they were jumping slider down through the guide rings here at the perrine, with my BLRT's. He had a pretty severe tension knot involving the brake line that "had him spinning on his side" and was able to clear it using the line release toggles.

I did a roll over from a building and went a little off axis while holding the risers. (I know I know, never touch them ) Got a pretty severe line over. I was lucky enough to strike the building after countering the spin, hitting it cleared the line over just before impact.

I'll post the picture when I get a chance.

I have personally seen 3 line overs. 2 were slider up, 1 was slider down.
The two slider up were both landed with the line over, both jumpers unharmed.
Slider down cleared itself when he popped the brakes. (it should be noted that the jumper professed a terrible pack job, and, knowing this guy, he may not have used a tail gate).

This is an interesting question/discussion. I feel I fall into that category of people who were taught to use line release mod and never really questioned how necessary it is.

One last comment. Somebody mentioned practicing flying on rears, but I feel that most people forget that when you loose your toggle you're only imputing C's and D's. Not the tail. super shitty way to fly a canopy, and impossible to practice without throwing you toggle.

Oops forgot to upload it . Here's the pic.
Please learn from my stupid mistake and make sure you know what you're doing, rather than Think you know what you're doing like me

Also a HUGE thanks to CR for their BlackJack canopy which, with 5 break lines, I was able to get flying straight.

I had one back in '05' here's the post.
http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1862335;#1862335
~J