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Looking at both of them. I am leaning towards the LD2 as it's been in the field longer. Would like to hear your thoughts.

I have been very impressed with the Stronglite. It's definitely purpose built--I wouldn't want one for anything where I had to get gear off and get away. But for it's intended purpose (light, long hikes, tracking, wing suit flight) I don't think I've seen a better container.

The 3 week delivery time is pretty impressive, too.

Both good containers. I'm biased but this is why I would chose the Ibex: The boc and its position is a better design, its lighter, more comfortable, longer for more natural pull, fast delivery, and cheaper. Additionally, I personally saw a Stronglite fall from a heli with a 200+ kg load to slider down opening and I'm happy to recommend it to the fattest jumper out there.

Do you know if it was with Spectra or Dacron lines?

Tom,

What about it isn't conducive to speedy getaways? Also, do you see any issue with using it for the occasional slider down as well?

~will

IMO only issue with it for slider down is the cut in laterals and the fact that the container is extended below the laterals to create the low BOC is a definite snag hazard for any non belly to earth deployments, or handheld routing. But it does have the line release mod on the risers if I recall correctly.

Directly from squirrel's website:

*Please note that the STRONGLITE is not suited to aerials or any application where there is the increased possibility of unstable deployments and a bridle/container entanglement. This is a wingsuit-specific container system.

Is the extended container length on the strong-light and cut in laterals equal to the LD2 long version or do you feel the strong-light creates a larger snag hazard for non belly to earth deployments?

I haven't seen an LD2 long so I couldn't say.

It appears to be less but would be nice to get the opinion of someone looking at them side by side.

Spectra

I made the first jump on a Stronglite/Ibex250 System today, so not much experience there.
I only jumped the first gen. Hybrid, so that experience is out dated.

The harness is minimalistic, but very comfortable. Only one option is available. The leg straps are continuous, so in case of an injury you have to cut them. You can use the harness for slider down jumps, I don’t think that is possible with the LD2 except the Finnish way.

My StrongLite fits me like a glove, I don't need adjustments on the leg straps.
According to my scales the harness is around 1400 gr, compared to 2200 gr for an Apex TLs (sized for a OSP265).
Craftsmanship looks excellent, the whole rig has a very nice touch to it (ansprechende Haptik, don’t know how to say that in English).
My container would also fit a Troll265 UL without problems.

The IBEX250 opened soft and on heading.
Landing the IBEX250 with 83kg naked, on a LZ at 2000m was absolutely no problem, I had the impression of flying a larger canopy – I normally jump Atair 265s.
I also jump a Feather 240, the openings of the Feather are much harder and the Feather 240 is also much faster at a 2000 m LZ.
I opted for the 400/525 line mix after talking to Matt, as they should give a softer opening - I will monitor the lines and the openings closely. The lines are tailgate friendly.

I will be in Lb next weekend for more jumps.

Actually to throw a third contender in the ring... have you seen any of the ultralight rigs Nick makes at Blacksheep Rigging? I've seen a couple of them that are pretty minimalist on weight, and they look sharp.

I'm pretty sure his turn-around times are pretty damn fast too if that's a concern. And I know his rigs are good for slider up and down or any other strange configuration you can come up with...

Anyone want to post a picture of one of them for me?

Thanks for your first impressions. I would really like to hear more of your thoughts after more jumps, especially about the opening, flight characteristics, mini vents, Dacron 400/525 mix...

Hi Walter,

why do you think it is not possible to do SD with the LD2? The reason why I´m asking is that my "finnish way" with the LD2 is exactly the same as with any other Adrenalin container I´ve used in SD environment so no additional gimmicks or tricks required?

The LD2 I have seen, have no line release mod.
For some people - I think the majority - line release mod is mandatory for SD. Ask Mahle!
I know pretty well, that this is no obstacle for the Finns.
I wanted to make the dissenting opinion on the line release mod known with a proper reference.

Fuck the Finns

Ah, you are absolutely correct my friend! My LD2 does not have the white loops on the risers if I remember correctly (it is packed SD currently so cannot check) so yeah, no line mod possible. But then again, I think the requirement of line mod in SD is a whole another argument. :) Like I said, I go "finnish style" on any of my rigs so no white loops required. :)

Fuck the finns indeed! :)

Contacted Adrenaline. LRM is now standard on the LD2.

The buckles require 2 hands to adjust (tighten or loosen). Which can make things slower and/or less convenient (tightening leg straps inside an antenna, for example, or getting out of the rig in a hurry).



If you pick the jumps well, the only issue I can see is that it's only sized for lightweight canopies.

Is Nick still sewing his harness' with single throw zigzag stitching using "E" thread? Not something I would use, anywhere.

I did some sd jumps between 150m to 90m with my ld2 long (without lrm) and troll light unvented, no problem at all with the harness. The only "not optimal" stuff here is more about the unvented canopy...

Is the LD2 available with a 3 ring system?

yep. Integrity harness, lbar or 3 ring. Lot of options are not on the adrenalin website so with them it s better to ask them by email

my ld2 has LRM and 3 ring I had to request it though.

Hi,
I'm sure people can understand our "frenchy" style english translation ;)

Integrity, 3 rings and L bars is written in the option section on all our containers description. No need to ask, just click the option on the orderform.
http://www.adrenalinbase.com/index.php?L=en&T=equip&E=74

Thanks
Roch

Hi,

Could you tell me what is the weight of this container please (only the harness, without toggle) for a 245 canopy?
Thanks!

http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2975987;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Something to consider.

1200g

I just sewed the update on a Squirrel Stronglite harness/container.
I only had to remove one row of stitching on each shoulder. Then I sewed the new inlay webbing to all 4 risers and the diagonal back-straps. Then I shoved the back straps back into the back-pad and closed the shoulder seams.

The whole process took me less than an hour.

I did not hear the full story about the incident that drove Squirrel to publish a Special Inspection on their Stronglite harness/containers, but I suspect that it involved a riser trying to peel off during an unstable opening.

First my review of Squirrel's Stronglite harness/container. It definitely is light-weight, way lighter than the Gargoyle (and 290 square foot canopy) that I repaired last week. It has a fairly conventional, 2-pin container. The pin-cover tucks under itself. The Stronglite looks like it was sewn in a para-glider factory. The container fabric is thin, rip-stop para-pack, only about 200 denier. In comparison, MIL SPEC/PIA SPEC para-pack normally used to make tail pockets, line leg pads, etc. is twice as thick: 400 denier. It will not survive many slide landings or approach marches through thorn bushes.
The container was small for a BASE rig, but judging by the 180 - XXXX serial number, it was built for a 180 square foot main canopy. It was longer than most BASE containers, making for a shorter reach for the BOC. Mind, you I always thought that the shortest skydiving rigs looked as silly as stupid, fat white men wearing clothes originally designed for a team of petite Japanese women!
Hah!
Hah!

Speaking of BOCs ... this Stronglite also has the smallest Spandex BOC I have ever seen on a BASE rig. I doubt if you could stuff a huge pilot-chute, designed for sub-terminal openings. More likely, that BOC was designed for 30-ish inch diameter pilot-chutes used for terminal openings.

However, container fabric is the lightest of all harness/container materials.
The Stronglite's harness is mostly (risers, back straps, main lift webs and leg straps) made of (4,000 pound tensile strength) PIA SPEC Type 8 webbing and sewn with 5 cord, pretty much standard for skydiving and pilot emergency parachute harnesses.
The only significant difference from common materials is in the chest and leg straps. They are made of square-weave webbing about 3/4 of an inch wide. It is not familiar to this old parachute rigger, but I have seen similar on rock-climbing and para-glider harnesses.
The leg straps contain two (fixed length) layers of Type 8.The adjustable leg straps are made of that narrow webbing and slide through some nifty aluminum buckles. The buckles are machined out of aluminum and anodised. The edges are much sharper than most parachute hardware, so I wonder how many hundred jumps they can do before they start fraying webbing.

The chest strap is also made of the same narrow webbing and narrow aluminum hardware.

The oddest thing about the Stronglite is the shoulder joints. They follow standard parachute industry construction techniques except for the choice of confluence wrap. Most skydiving manufacturers warp the shoulder join in confluence wraps made of (1200 pound) Type 12 webbing or (4000 pound) Type 4 webbing.
Most parachute harness manufacturers also include a steel confluence wrap in the 2500 to 5000 pound range. Even the Aviator PEP uses a 500 hundred pound square connector link to prevent the risers from peeling away from the back straps, if you deploy on your back.
Oddly, Squirrel only uses some of that light-weight (200 denier?), rip-stop, para-pack for confluence wraps.
Quick!
Audience members, what is the tensile strength of 200, rip-stop, para-pack?
?
?


If I worked for Squirrel, I would insist on wider radia on the next batch of hardware. I would also make the rear risers so long that they wrap back onto the diagonal back-straps and are sewn to the diagonal back-straps with 5-cord.

Would I buy a Squirrel Stronglite?
No!
But if they make a few updates, I would consider jumping a Stronglite 2 harness/container.

That is an odd choice and would definitely contribute to the issue. However, I have seen a number of rigs that have no wrap at all so make of it what you will.

Easy there. People don't like that kind of talk around here

No confluence wrap at all? I would swear that I've seen skydiving rigs with out a confluence wrap but I can't recall where. Help me out. What rigs are built or have been built with out a confluence wrap?

Lee

Early Early (pre 1995) Talons were built without webbing confluence wraps. They held together great until we started doing TSO C23D, bevy weight (well over 300 pounds) 205 knots, etc. drop test, when we popped a few stitches across the top of the WMW 5 cord. After that we added a confluence wrap made of Type 4 webbing.
Rigging Innovations ringed harnesses (Flexon 1990) always had a Type 12 confluence wrap.
Wings still don't sew on webbing confluence wraps, but I have never seen a Wings Barnes break stitches.
To break stitches, you usually have to be over-weight, over-speed and tumbling. Then you load one side of the harness more than the greatest load it was ever designed to hold.
Also remember that opening shock increases with the SQUARE of the velocity.

Sunrise don't use them. Not sure if that has always been the case. No others spring to mind at the moment.

Rob, we're not hiring at the moment, but I wanted to let you know that:
1. Yes, in fact, both risers are actually 1 continuous piece from end to end, and both do pass through the diagonal and are fastened there. Here is a photo of the design you just worked on. I'm not sure what length you imagined the rear risers to be? The front and rear riser pieces are both approximately 4m in length depending on who it was built for. Let me know if this doesn't answer your question.

2. I agree, the hardware does not look like the skydiving harnesses that you are clearly very used to looking at. They are designed (not by us) to sustain loads on precisely that webbing, which was woven specifically to fit those nifty buckles. If the manufacturer increased the radius, they would slip on the webbing and cause more wear... and slip. We like them precisely because they don't do that.

For a more in-depth description of the riser / MLW construction, refer to the Sticky thread in the general forum.

Thanks,
-Matt