Basejumper.com - archive

FYI

Seen on a Mayhem after a broken central line (continuous) needed to be replaced.
I do not know if the lineset was original or not.
It was not the standard 600lbs version proposed on the manuf. website. (i guess 400lbs)

This is NOT the standard way to fingertrap lines. This assembly method results in a weaker line junction at the cascade point.

The lines presented some cosmetic damage (should have been changed already).
The resulting breaking strength of the replaced lines was approx 115kg (250lbs)

(very personal) conclusions :

- Again, 400lbs is not enough for the low-lines (allthough it's perfectly fine for the high section on cascaded lines)

- If you persist thinking that undersized Dacron lines are a relevant choice for basejumping you should at least change them very regularly

- If you decide to make, sell, or jump exotic stuff... great! natural selection will teach the rest of us..

Wow. That's crazy.

Can you tell us who did the work?

This exactly why ALL line-sets and new canopies must be inspected!

That looks like a malfunctioning machine did it. Is the entire line-set stitched that way?

Am I seeing that correctly that above the actual insertion point two pieces of line are just bartacked together? Any idea how many jumps the jumper did with that setup?

This alternate method has been used before. But still the 2ndLine load is caught by the constriction of the main line. As with all, each method has it's own Pros and Cons.
Take care,
space

Exact, until [as you can see on the picture] the inserted end move a little bit and looses tension between the bartack and the insertion point (theres a little slack there)

That said the classic method is stronger in any configuration, even when properly tensioned.

Where is this method used? I can't recall seeing it. It would eliminate the point load in the continues line on the out side of the finger trap hole. I actually have seen lines break there but it was because the split angle was too great. It wrapped around a large peace of hard wear. It was a geometry issue. But that just means you would be tearing the bar tack. Not seeing where this would ever be a good idea.

I think it's cool when people learn enough to work on their own shit. Key word being LEARN. I do support innovation. But I'm just not seeing it here.

Lee
Lee

I thought 400 lbs Dacron center lines have been discontinued by all manufacturers?

I believe that Apex still uses 400 pound dacron on some (not all) of the center lines on their LV and UL canopies.

i don't know about the new canopies, but i sent my Flik UL in for a new line-set in January and Steve recommended I put 525 lb on it instead of the original 400 (which i did).

The evolution of base gear always makes me laugh.

"Alright guys, we need base specific canopies, lets really overbuild these things, add full span-wise reinforcement, heavier lines, continuous center A+B lines. We really need to make sure these things hold up to abuse."

Fast forward the clock 10 years.

"Man, these overbuilt canopies are really heavy and bulky, we should take out some of the span-wise reinforcement, use some lighter line, and cascade the center A+B lines"

Oh shit, they broke?!

Go fuckin figure.

^^^^^^Excellent!^^^^^^

For the entire line set?

The Apex web site still says they use 400, and I know the last new UL canopy I saw from them had 400 on it.

There is no 400lbs Dacron on my most recent flix ul lineset.

A lot of my jumping is in S/E Asia and over half is slider down. With it being so difficult to get my gear to them and a lot of s/d, I think Steve's recommendation came more from my personal situation than a companywide change.

I believe that the Apex UL and Lite canopies come with 525 center A lines, with all other lines being 400. This is from their product notice/service bulletin that came out in response to the 400 line failures a few years back:

http://www.basejumper.com/...cation_0712_990.html
http://www.basejumper.com/...cedure_0712_989.html
(on a side note, this is service bulletin 712, wonder what the other 711 are?)

I recently had my UL Flik relined with 525 dacron all around. This is something I had to specifically ask for, even though they list the option on their website. The increase in bulk (compared to 400) was negligable and I believe the added tensile strength is a better safety factor for the inevitable weakening of line strength due to abrasion, packing on rough surfaces, line burn, UV exposure, line stretch, fingertrapping, etc, seen throughout the life of a BASE lineset/canopy.

can someone help me out here? its hard for me to see in this picture, but what im getting is that the bartack is placed ABOVE the line insertion point, correct?

it does not look finger trapped and then bar tacked just bar tacked

Hi RiggerLee,
I have seen this on former EastBloc canopies. Same as single surface between D and trailing edge, Not that I agree with it, I have seen CRW riggers jumping unbartacked lines to figure out the best trim and bartack them later.
I cant see any advantages for multiuse but i would jump it. I have seen this and it was on the steering lines cascades with said canopy brand.
I hope that the Manu will speak up on why he chose this method. i didnt like it but it was not even close to a grounding issue.

I understand Lucifer's concern and praise him for being observative.
Take care,
space

I emailed the manufacturer the photos and he told me that this is not the original construction.

My best guess is that it was relined somewhere, because the construction method and line weight are both different from what the manufacturer uses.

We (Bad Seed Base) do not bartack above the trap in point. That is not a normal construction method used in our shop. We don't currently use anything smaller than 525 dacron on any production canopies. We have used 525, deviating from the normal 600 when asked by the customer. If you have any questions, i'm available via pm, email, text or phone.
808 780 2056
brandon at badseedbase.com

thanks
Brandon

Yes. That is what you see.