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I have no opinions and do not know the answers but here are some questions based on the increasing number of terrain flying fatalities, a significant proportion of which started from aircraft:

How many terrain flying fatalities start out from aircraft versus how many start from the terrain?

Is there any pattern to the aircraft-initiated terrain flying fatalities that is not evident in terrain-launched fatalities?

Is there anything intrinsic about aircraft-launched terrain flying that changes the risk assessment equations compared to terrain-launched terrain flights?


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In response to your last question Robin, I think most jumpers would agree that flying up to exit from a heli, as opposed to hiking up to an exit point, precludes valuable opportunities to evaluate wind conditions along the line to be flown.

Seeing as most hikes or on the other side of the mountain/terrain that one flies down, its usually not an actual opportunity to evaluate weather on the flight path. And the duration of the hikes (1 up to 4 hours often) on those longer jumps also means that temp/weather changes are very likely. So that shouldnt be the biggest thing that makes a difference.

I total agree. I dont even want to guess how many times that by the time we get to the top of a hike, the weather has changed completely.

A heli is preferred because you can chose almost any line you want and dont have to worry about finding a specific exit point. On the majority of base jumps, even the famous ones with all the cool videos, there is a fair bit or transit time on a line, ie getting to it, or getting off it to get to a landing. Most terrain heli lines are picked to be the longest amount of time on terrain with relatively short transit. The more time you have on the line, the more chances you have to hit it.

When you can pick anywhere, you want the coolest place, which might be flatter, or more technical than anticipated. When they are so long, theres alway a chance of something like a power line, snagged tree, or subtle upslope in the terrain to go unnoticed.

When we were shooting some of the first of the barn lines at Sputnik, there was discussion of flying in between the house and the barn. We missed a train, and wound up reviewing the footage at the car instead. Not seen by any of us in flight, but very clear on the video, was a cable between the two buildings. I am fairly certain if we hadnt reviewed the footage, one of us would have hit it. When youre getting to the point where things like that have to be taken into consideration, then its too low with too little margin for error.

Does the fact the helicopter cost a fair amount per hour add to pressure to take it lower with fewer/no lead-in jumps than if hiking?

Definitely agreed. My point was simply that it's easier to gauge wind strength, direction, and most significantly, gustiness at an exit point.

Obviously that's not to say that those conditions won't be totally different farther down a line, but at least you can get some concept of air stability.

Some of the challenges I've noticed from jumping from an aircraft for terrain flights is depth perception and arriving at the terrain with maximum speed. For me and others I jump with, there has been an obvious learning curve on how to create a pattern, while maintaining ideal speed, and attach to the terrain at the intended location. This depth perception also appears to change as snow comes into the mix.

Yes.

Aircraft initiated terrain flights are more dangerous for a number of reasons.

1. some people feel more secure out of a heli/plane than off a cliff. They think that since there not jumping off a cliff, the physics have changed. BASE forces you to respect and understand a number of things that skydiving doesn't. Having a solid BASE jumping background is almost a prerequisite for someone looking to begin terrain flying.

2. Heli's/aircraft allow you to hang yourself. If you don't do your homework, study terrain maps, looks at where it gets flat and steep, look for outs and danger points....your gonna get bit. For some reason, people tend to do this less when they have a heli at there disposal.

3. mob mentality takes over when you can session a line a bunch of time with a heli. People see who is flying the raddest line and want to get crazier. Every flight down the mountain needs to be analyzed before getting close.

To do some Aircraft terrain flights, you dont need to be BASE jumper, BASE exits demand a lot of BASE jumps with his step by step learning, , HUGE difference, you can be a good wingsuit pilot but if you dont know much about BASE you dont have for sure the skills to do terrain flights, open parachutes at low altitude in mountain envyroment, etc, same with people who dont know how to pack his own BASE parachute, is the tunnel era !!, now the people doesnt have enout time to climb the step by step learning, to pack his own BASE canopy, to hike and they need to upload his hero footage online quickly to show his friends how cool they are.
Just my two cents.

Almost a prerequisite....

Maybe it's time to separate Basejumping from Terrain Flying and understand that the only shared point in common is having one parachute or no reserve and occasionally exiting from a platform attached to the earth.
Terrain flying has exposed us to a whole new and different game set, where in my opinion, only a very small minority are capable of exploiting the discipline for physical/mental reasons.
I hope that this is a fair and just comment as I personally have never attempted terrain flying, nor would I dare do so, my reactions are not up to that standard.

That wouldn't be any fun then would it :)

No your right, just no fun at all. Shit in my pants, morphine, catheters, ambulances, surgeons and fucking wheel chairs were never my thing. Guess your just a bigger more ballsy man than I. Fly free little bird.

if wheelchairs are not for you....base is not for you...do yourself a favor click my attachment..and follow the instructions

hahahahahahahahaaha perfect mate

I don't get it mate, I am not ballsy at all I studied my ass off for many years to begin the sport I love. I even trained for many years and studied from previous people some who have died on there thoughts on base and how to become a better jumper

When you start basejumping you understand the sport of Base jumping is most likely the most dangerous sport you could possibly do (beside swimming with great whites out of the cage) .. If your not ready to see some of your friends die or watch them be injured or lose limbs , see lots of blood and still have a black humour about it then I am sorry your not ready for the sport at all..

Its a shame that these days people think the sport is just another aerial sport..

To stick around for many years you need to constantly access every jump...

And yet still you can die doing everything right..

Base jumping has evolved these last few years with terrain flying now people are getting even cockier and flying houses and castles and Urban flying Is starting to gain popularity.. Wait till someone impacts a high rise building then its gonna change again...

Like someone posted above if its not for you then cool walk away

When every Jumper exits that exit point you are on your own to decide your outcome when shit goes wrong you are going back to your training to help you try not to become another accident

I wish you good luck in the future ..

Guess some one else just took your advice and checked out. (incidents 3 July) are you going to cry your eyes out now and join the virtual funeral procession?

Does anyone keep track of those heli fatalities? Do those names make it onto The List?

Helicopter fatalities like Mark Sutton are not recorded in the base fatality list. As far as I know they aren't recorded in any virtual way like the bfl

Honestly, I don't know. I would like to think, for the future of BASE, we do not all get tarred with the same brush or our "sport" will be short lived.

Oh, I don't think that wingsuiting will ever go away, even if it were to be banned on every exit in the world, people would still do it. The cat is out of the bag.

BASE used to be like that. Very little was legal. It didn't even slow us down.

At the bottom of the BFL we have the section gone but not forgotten..

There is 3 sections on the BASE Fatality list

1.BFL http://www.blincmagazine.com/...i/BASE_Fatality_List
2.BFL Statistics http://www.blincmagazine.com/.../Fatality_Statistics
3.Gone but not forgotten http://www.blincmagazine.com/...ne_but_not_forgotten


have a look here
at number #3 http://www.blincmagazine.com/...ne_but_not_forgotten

Some of you may not know there is this available but there is some Useful information out there if you look

If anyone would like someone on that #3 then send myself a PM and I will gladly post them up..

I need Name/date/incident/

Thanks

The problem as I see it is the same as we experienced when BASE was new. People came to the sport lured by images of participating in an extreme sport but it was not necessarily the best people or the most adapted that came. Wingsuit/terrain flying has now caught the imagination of the crowds who naturally want a piece but have no idea that the progression is a very long road that not everyone is well suited, either mentally or physically. So they take short cuts and appear to be helped by some towards this end. Terrain flying is the pinnacle of BASE and is what many are aiming to achieve, hence in a small minority of a marginal sport we are getting a high fatality rate. But is the majority of terrain flying technically BASE?
Ultimately some misaligned politician will stick his hand up and call for this to be stopped, that is inevitable.
If we all fall/stand together, that is the greater question.

I think it's even more fundamental than that. Let me draw a parallel with lead climbing.

In climbing, quite often the most dangerous routes with an ill-protected crux are those that require a certain degree of skill in order to begin to attempt - and this requires some form of training and preparation in order to advance to.

This contrasts to BASE, where more-or-less anyone can step off an edge of something - and, if everything goes right, the jumper doesn't necessarily need to do much. Worse still, take the Swiss valley where the technicality of the exit appears to be inversely proportional to the effort of getting there.

In climbing, you can't be as lazy as you can be in BASE.

Deep air diving went about the same way. More people involved, greater number of accidents but like climbing there is effort involved and that reduced the numbers from the start!

No it's not. The "pinnacle of BASE" would be up to each individuals personal choice I believe.

maybe in skillset ?

I am not sure when the term "extreme sport " came into being, but I know it was a longtime after I was lured to BASE, and not by any images, ( YouTube was a long way off ), but by the amazement that I could fall off a cliff and my skydiving equipment might save my life.

To have arrived at a point where it is not only possible to fall off a mountain and be saved by a parachute, but to actually "Fly! " Now THAT! is progress, and I completely agree with you that Wingsuit terrain flying is the pinnacle of BASE. Wingsuits and High performance tracking suits have revolutionized a sport whose only previous requirement was to have the balls to huck yourself of a fixed object with a parachute and survive.

Now we can Fly!!! Amazing feeling! no wonder it captivates the imagination of so many.

Regards, B.