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So around three years ago I got into skydiving with the sole intention of getting into BASE and eventually WS BASE being the final goal. I'm about to start my 4th season of jumping and I can't help but feel like I just don't want to skydive anymore. I'd rather just BASE. And all the money I'm spending on this "stepping stone" I feel like I could be spending on BASE. And reading this article really got me wondering if hanging it up was a good idea:

http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2659090;search_string=stop%20skydiving;#2659090


But before I go any further, let me give you some back ground.

So like I said earlier, I've put in three year (more like 1.5 cause our off season is 6 months long), have a little over 450 jumps (The majority of which are wingsuit jumps), and only recently started BASE jumping. I did my first 3 jumps in 2012 at Bridge Day then spent the next year paying for a brand new shiny rig. Went back to BD in 13, did a few jumps and came back home to no local jumpers willing to take me on.. Errrr. Injured, retired, or wasn't wiling to take anyone else on at the moment. I refuse to jump solo at this point in the game. I want a mentor. Anyways, during this time I've done everything I can to make my self ready for BASE and make myself a more efficient future BASEr. Some of them being been taking climbing course, and climbing very regularly. I'm an ultra runner now and the thought of running several miles up a mountain with a loaded stash bag on, jumping and doing it again several times in a day doesn't even phase me. I'm also moving out west so I can participate in all of these activities and more to a far greater degree and live at high altitude and reap the benefits. Additionally I'm taking up mountaineering and ice climbing (Just signed up for a two week mountaineering course for September, and will be taking ice climbing courses in Jan). Again, in order to make me a more efficient BASEr. Hell I read Freedom of the Hills cover to cover. My next move is to try and take another FJC, this time with Tom A. and then spend a few days at the Perrine on my way out West this August. But I haven't solidified any of that yet...It's a seasonal employment thing.

By now I've probably made it pretty obvious that I'm more interested in the out doors then the urban, but it's just not true. I recently bought a lock pick kit so I can practice, and have been eyeing a master elevator key set for some time but I can't use them right now cause I have no one to jump with. But I know where to get'em when the time comes. I want this. But yes, I want the S & E more then the B&A

Getting back to skydiving... I have two options:

Sell my current rig which went for over 8K, get a lot of money back and a get a radically simplified version (Cheap container and reserve, no AAD and stick my BASE canopy in it) that will allow me to WS as a means of practice and currency including canopy skills.

OR

Let it go. Sell the rig, alti's etc... and just rent a rig for a few days if I need to get familiar with a new suit when I get one or just use my base rig and do WS balloon jumps. I can go to the tunnel if I need it and start going to a gymnasium or pool with high dives.

Skydiving was fun and kind of still is, but I hate the social hierarchy. I'm here to train for BASE not suck dick, I hate the social seen, or better yet the clique scene, AADs, Reserves, etc... It's just not BASE, it's not the solemn, sincere thing I'm looking for, and I'm just trying to see if I should let it go and not look back, or if I should get some of my money back and keep my toes in the water at most via rentals or a super cheap rig.

Who here has/hasn't quit and [not] regretted it? Who here only BASEs?

You can quit if you can base and wing suit base enough to stay current. That being said you can't or won't so no!

get a mentior.

Have you been offering to do any ground crew/done any ground crewing? Instead of saying "hey, will you mentor me?", try offering something to them first and giving to the local BASE scene. Better than asking what it can do for you first thing.
I did close to a year of ground crew before I ever did my first jump. Now, because of this, I know almost all of the local objects, and more importantly get invites to jump from the guys I drove around all night.

Yes, sorry I didn't mention this. This is pretty much the first words out of my mouth with everyone, but was still turned down every time. I even got my wilderness first responder to help out but no sale.

There are very few active jumpers in Maine or close by. This is largely due to some jumpers a few years back that burned some of the locals objects and since I was from that DZ I wasn't necessarily told "No, stay a way" but I was told we just don't have room ATM, and we'd like to see you do another FJC at the Perrine, then MAYBE we can talk (I'm paraphrasing)

To the other posters, thanks for your in put.

 Hope this helps. I only "based" for many years hanging skydiving up as soon as I was off and running. I have no regrets about it. But that said I have more objects in my area then 90% of the country. There are a few others in the area who did the same and haven't sky jumped in years. I just recently just started sky jumping again. If you can get self sufficient , you won't regret taking a break. You need a mentor- my opinion. This is an unusual post for me. Sooo.......

I think you are fooling yourself if you think the same social structuring doesn't go on in BASE or any group activity for that matter.
In any group physical activity hierarchies and cliques will develop from common skill sets, from geographical proximity, common ideas and philosophies, etc. I think many times people see these cliques as exclusive, uppity and non approachable, which in some cases may be true, but in the majority of cases I think the exclusivity people see is not that at all but rather is merely a group with a common denominator, something they all can talk about and relate to, and it can get very specialized, which, in turn, excludes people. When someone new enters the scene without the same common denominator then there is awkwardness because there is little or no common ground. Even though the highest level BASE wingsuit pilots and the newby BASE jumper both have jumping in common, the wingsuiters have more specialized experiences and conversations so there will be a feeling of separation or cliques when an 'outsider' looks in.
By separating yourself from the skydiving community aren't you just jumping ship to join a different clique, one you perceive as being cooler?
It's all perspective....

As for me, I have not made a skydive in 5 or 6 years after being active for over 15. Do I miss it? Yes, it's a great thing to be free in space like that and it's fun! Will I get back into it? Probably... I'm already making preparations towards that for this year. I started skydiving and eventually got into BASE after 5 or 6 years of just skydiving, then BASE and skydiving ran concurrently for about 10 years, then for the last 5 or 6 years it's only been BASE and now it seems I'll be back to both soon.
It's the cyclical nature of life man... keep your options open.

I went to skydive the other day and was not current anymore with a C license. So I went base jumping instead. This is how you quit skydiving. But IMHO skydiving becomes more fun after a lot of base jumps have been had. Skydiving as a sport I feel is kinda lame and don't want to be the best skydiver in the world, but It is fun to hit the DZ with some buddies and cause some havoc in the air for a day. It is a good way to stay current and alive also.

Aren't you like a pro skdiver or something?

Being turned "away" by the more "experienced" Base community only says one of two things; either you are a complete knob, which I doubt, or the wankers you asked needed their overinflated egos massaged more than you were prepared to give.

I get the impression you may not be a 'people' person, don't waste your life waiting for others to take you by the hand, try jumping solo, find an object similar to what you did on your FJC and back yourself.
Sell your skydive rig, spend your time doing things you enjoy. Most wingsuit base jumpers have very little skydiving or base experience these days anyway.

I started skydiving with the sole purpose to get into BASE too. After about 130 skydives I sold my skydive gear and borrowed when i felt like jumping, which was probably 10 jumps a year or so. But then I started flying wingsuits, and realized that skydiving is fun and you actually learn alot, especially flying your wingsuit. I regretted selling my gear, but purchased a new used setup and am stoked I have my own gear again. You are from Maine, you will need to travel ALOT if you only wanna WS base to stay current. That is not smart dude. Talk to the top WS base pilots, and ask them how much they skydive their wingsuits.
Having a mentor and learning to jump the older school way is the way to go too, I think. Nothing against the FJC's, some of those dudes do really good jobs. I have some fond memories of learning, to say the least.

It's more likely that they are relatively new themselves. From his perspective they are "experienced" but it's entirely possible they have 50 jumps and really don't feel qualified to be mentoring anyone. They know that if they jump with a brand new guy they will end up in a role they aren't comfortable in.

You bring up an out standing point. And one that if we're talking perspective, is a white elephant in the room. In fact it seems almost contradictory of me to do so such a thing, to leave skydiving for the reasons I am considering. I mean I JUST said that I was turned down by people I've tried to jump with. That's WAY more exclusive then anything I've ever experience in skydiving. So what the fuck, right?

Well first of all, what's NOT paradoxical about BASE? You all want it even though you know it'll most likely kill you in time. You leave the rules of the USPA and their police, the S&TAs and all the bullshit of DZ politics in order to then subject yourself to state and federal laws. And we spend more on travel so we can spend less on jump slots. It makes no sense. So again, what the fuck right?


BASE to me seems to have more POTENTIAL to cater to the self sufficient, individualist than the hand-holding, collectivist. I might be being a bit harsh about SD, but I have every reason to believe you competently understand what I'm saying. Thanks for your input man. It was received as it was intended.

BTW, it's actually DZ politics, not the cliques that piss me off. My feelings aren't scared if I'm not invited to someones b-day :P . But I hate politics. Working at a DZ for two years kind of ruined it for me. You're response cleared this up, so thanks.


matt002,
You're right, on many accounts. In fact it's your recommendation I want to take more than anyone else... However, well, read on. First off, with out getting to dramatic here, I'm not a people person. So I guess you saw right through that. I'm also self taught in almost everything. I'd rather spend all day hiking or climbing to an exit point alone then spending it with people. Not a people hater, I just need my space, and a lot of time to recharge. The only problem I see with this approach though, and maybe I'm just looking at this the wrong way, it's that I respect BASE, or at least have been taught to. You can die doing this. I'm trying to put all ego aside on this one, or at least as much as possible. Hell I don't even jump a camera when I SD for that reason, let alone BASE. And the advice of a mentor on your first hundred jumps I suspect could keep you from making a lot of unnecessary mistakes and broken bones. After that point, I can see going the self sufficient rout. Maybe taking all of SNBs courses would be the best way to go. I believe in taking ownership of what you're doing, And BASE demands this, but I also believe in knowing your current abilities and respecting it.

If nothing else, I'll end up doing pretty much what you just suggested and hit the perrine for a few days, bang out about 50 jumps and then move on.

As someone who's self taught, I know damn well that a lot of mistakes are made up front with that learning style. If a mentor can help with reducing that initial spike in learning mistakes that would be invaluable. But if I can't have it, I'll go back to just me, myself and I. After a shit ton of jumps at the Perrine in quick succession, I'll probably make a choice at that point. Did you start like this?



SLAMBO
Couple of things. Yeah living in Maine kind of sucks. It's like having a scuba license, but living a thousand miles in land. You can travel, but fuck. I'm moving in a few months and will be living in the Colorado, pretty close to moab as well. So there's more potential there. I suspect far more jumpers as well.

I completely agree that wing suiting from a plane is very beneficial, but with balloons available out west, how beneficial are we talking now? I've never done a balloon jump, so I can only speculate and ask question.

Lastly, Jason and Try2live, thanks for the input. I do agree with you that finding ways to stay current in base is key to being able to make complete transition. And yes, skydiving can be fun... just not always my cup of tea.




Tom,
Pretty much. One of the crews up here fits that description, and hey didn't need any more people ground crewing for them. The other one I was referring to is very experience with the one of the jumpers have several thousand jumps last I heard, and that was the one I was turned down from. They had their reason's as I mentioned in my second response, but it doesn't mean it sucks any less. I mean really, what else are you looking for in a potential candidate? There are other crews around here, but I don't know any of them or have any connections so I never tried.


So in sum, from what I'm getting from all of you it sounds like selling my gear and down grading to something cheap and specialized for the type of jumping I intend to do (and put my BASE canopy in it) would be the ideal, but only after I've set myself up in a location that would allow me to keep current, hopefully that includes a mentor [or several courses], but don't count on it. So wait till I move to make the decision. Care to add anything else to this?

Just remember that there are a ton of variables when jumping subterminal cliffs in the desert, and also when wingsuiting in the desert. I would recommend reading rich webb's article on moab wingsuiting, which should not even be considered until you have a couple hundred WS base jumps and have short starts dialed. I myself am not even close to that realm. But it talks about different factors involved in flying terrain and wind/thermals.
Balloons are a good place to practice, but you have to pay 50-100 a jump usually for that. Colorado will be a cool place to get going though, and you have Twin Falls fairly close to you.

Mentor?
the freshmaker?

Guys- I can vouch for this being the specific case in his region. From first-hand discussions, the old Maine crew did burn a lot of bridges for this earnest guy.

There are a lot of judgemental replies on this forum (edit to add: in general, but not necessarily in this thread i now realize), that I would disagree with severely. I can't blame Lance for his frustrations.

Lance, I will say publicly that you seem to approaching it with a due respect for advice given. I will also suggest, as someone who is mostly self-taught and infrequently has time to jump myself, that patience is better than injury. And guaranteed in this sport, one or the other is inevitable. However geography is a big factor for you, and if moving out west is a viable alternative for you, it may be worth it depending on your priorities in life.

Won't say I'm not jealous of your options at the moment. And fuckin a man, all the mountaineering and climbing training is fun in its own right too. While I admire both, I have a a degree more respect for someone who safely fights their way up (& down) Katahdin in winter than someone who flies a you-tube proxy line.

Good luck bro. Sending PM.

Lots of good stuff already said. Heres my best advice on skydiving. Selll the fuck out of that rig if you really paid 8k on it. Find a nice used rig from the late 90s and put a sabre 1 in it. You should be able to get a very safe and useable setup for under 2k out the door. Now you can still skydive when you need to. Switching out your base canopy every time you want to skydive would be a huge pain in the ass. Id say I do between 20-50 jumps a year, mostly trying out new wingsuits, or just to fly them with friends.

I agree at some point you might need to just move someplace else. Moab wingsuit jumps are scary, and honestly the majority of the ones in the US that are legal right now are pretty scary and remote. Im pretty sure there have been more wingsuit deaths in the US than in Europe so far this year, which should really tell you something.

So it's better that he goes solo or has some help, even if it is limited?

youre at the wrong dropzone and in the wrong area man. my DZ is the fuckin SHIT, its almost completely a bunch of cool relaxed people, egos arent too much of a problem, and dz politics are at a minimum. it just so happens theres alot of BASE jumpers at my DZ too. we dont all neccessarily jump together, and i dont bother them at my experience level, so i just jump with a buddy of mine who has a few more jumps than i do. we do ok.
if you want more objects, and more jumpers, youre gonna have to either travel, or move. as for skydiving, do what youre gonna do, but it couldnt hurt to sell your skygear and buy some cheap ass used rig to keep around for those times that you occassionally may want to get out and have some skyfun with friends.

good luck to you, stay safe

Guding a new jumper, either formally or informally, is a huge responsibility, and one that I think people often take far too lightly. I cannot fault anyone for not wanting to be in that position.

Tom, you make a fair point but if "those" jumpers got to 50 or more jumps then the necessary skill set is there to help a less experienced jumper out. Let's see how quick they are to bitch about a "newby" burning one of their precious sites or going in alone etc. We have way too few people of all levels and far too much over inflated ego in this sport for it to ever proceed past getting it's head out of it's own ass.
Ditto Skydiving. You have to share and give back.

I would check the BFL again and look at all the wingsuit deaths over the last few years and sadly now the last few days, and ask yourself is it really that much of a hassle to put up with the shit at the DZ?
Maybe when you move and go to a new DZ there will be some base jumpers there that can help you
I have never wingsuited but fuck when you add it to base shit seems to happen, so getting all the practice you can seems to be the go

I have never, ever had an issue with this thing you call DZ politics. Even when people I know are bitching and moaning about politics this and politics that I'm pretty much oblivious to 90% of it - basically because I don't care, I don't get involved and therefore it doesn't affect me. YMMV.

Thoughts on the rest of what you've said: 1) Currency is important. Jump number wise for the average person, a poor to middling skydiving season is like a great to awesome BASE jumping season. And definitely if you want to take the wingsuit into the BASE environment you'd better be current in the sky. Otherwise you will seriously incresing your risk and you will not be doing yourself justice performance wise either.

2) In terms of prep, Bridge Day doesn't count. If I was in a position to mentor someone (I've got ~400 BASE jumps and no way in hell do I feel I'm ready to do that) I wouldn't view anyone who'd done BD any different than someone who hadn't done anything. Sign up for the in depth FJC, do it, then see who might be willing to take you further.

3) You're about to move across the country. Who cares if you've fallen out with the skydivers where you live now? Meet new ones and ignore the bullshit.

4) I don't think I've ever heard BASE jumping, especially in groups, described as solemn before. If that's what you're after then you're probably more likely to find it on solo expeditions anyway. Most BASE jumpers are just like skydivers, only more so.

I just happened to come across a book recently that I think would really resonate with you and your current predicament. It's a tough decision you have to make for yourself and I don't envy the position you find yourself in. You are obviously well read so you may already have this one in your collection already but if not, then hopefully you will give this book a chance and it helps you to achieve that lucid insight you have been searching for:http://www.lememe.com/archives/27556

... if the book doesn't help then you could always ask your mom what she thinks you should do.

Good Luck!

I have. And it was an accurate description.

I might be one of "those" jumpers. and, "helping out" is a lot different than "agreeing to mentor." Help out a little sure, but does anyone even consider 50 or more jumps a qualification to mentor? You could kill someone with inexperienced advice.

It's not quite as nice 'n easy as you'd try to make it sound, but I wish it was! It's not like any of us are assholes around here. Lance just has the bad luck to live in a part of the world with somewhat limited opportunity in BASE at the moment, compared to some locales. He seems to have made some smart big-picture choices, much to his credit.

Seems from his own words that he prefers being alone, so this maybe the valid point.
In his case the character of the man seems to have put in him in the position that he will have to pay for pro help rather than be mentored.
We are not all the same and some I would trust for information and help with way less than 50 jumps, others well, with all the jumps in the world they will always be idiots.
Remember that when you step off, you are always alone unless its a collision.
Like others have stated; pick up a good second hand internationally known skydive rig, jump the hell out of it, have some fun and keep a foot in both camps.

people can't drive you crazy if you don't give them the keys

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond. Work and then some has gotten in the way. The same old excuse.

Anyways, thanks everyone for the helpful responses. I've seen some noobs get torn apart on this forum and BLiNK so I wasn't expecting much else when I first posted this, but was seriously surprised with the result. So thanks for the responses here and for all the PMs which I intend to respond to. I'm only about half done so far. So if you haven't heard form me, I just haven't gotten to you yet.

My rig is currently getting appraised and I'm looking at my options now, and will be trying to down grade here shortly, preferably before the season starts here. So at this time, I do plan on still staying in. You've convinced me that that's pretty much going to be necessary unless I can find someone with a balloon at a discounted rate on a regular basis.

There are many people here who I'd like to mention by name for their help, but I'll just hit a few up.

Jakee thanks for your thoughts on BD. I completely agree. Another FJC is in order.

Cloudtramp, this is exactly what I was looking for... a dose of perspective. I'll pick up a copy ASAP. AND ask my mom to read it to me before I go to bed.

SLAMBO, I've got the next two days off so I'll look at those articles ASAP. Thanks.

hjumper and transcientCW, I'm tring to sell the fuck out of it right now! And hopefully stay in the sport with a cheap rig. Thanks. I should be up on dz.com here pretty soon.

Jam... yes. I guess you do have to value an option for it to effect you... true.

Colm and Mitch, thanks for everything!

Holdfast thanks for the solid advice and perspective. You pretty much nailed it

Tom, I'll shoot you an emial about your courses in the next few weeks as soon as I know my westward trip schedule.

If I forgot anyone, you were only forgotten at this moment. Thanks again!