Basejumper.com - archive

Tom, can you please make this a sticky?

Unfortunately, a jumper who had an incident last year at Sputnik was not well insured and can not pay his Swiss Hospital bill (a couple of 10’000ds of CHF). According to Swiss law, the town where the accident happened has to pay the bill. Understandably, the town of Walenstadt is now very upset. As a consequence of this they are discussing a ban for BASE Jumping in Walenstadt.

We, the SBA, want to remind you again: Please make sure that you have a valid accident insurance which covers you in case of an accident!!!

In addition, I am talking to the major of Walenstadt. He is still on our side but it is very difficult for him now because the tax payers of Walenstadt don’t understand why they have to pay if some egoistic adrenalin junkies fuck themselves up…

I opened a pay pal account for this case:

jumpsputnik@hotmail.com

and the money will go 100% to the community of Walenstadt.

We will never be able to pay the full amount but if we can put together a nice sum, the people of Walenstadt see at least that we care…

Thanks for your support to keep that spot open!

Contribution sent via paypal. Thank you Michi for working with the local community.

If the jumper is still alive he should be paying as much of this as possible!

Q. What is a good medical insurance for Europe?

Who was the jumper?

Contribution sent via paypal.

Thank you Michi

We are our own worst enemies.....

Paypal sent.

I would also like to know who the jumper was.

That is a shame. We worked closely with the mayor when we organized WWL qualifications there last August. Everything was executed perfectly and the mayor wanted to welcome all future base-jumpers to his location - and open the conversation for future PROFESSIONALLY ORGANIZED events.

We are open to try to solve this matter and help in this issue, but we would need to know more.

if someone showed up without insurance, left the town without paying medical bills and now asks colleagues anonymously to bail him out, it is just not right. Man up and carry your consequences.

The persons who are talking to the mayor, please contact me and let's discuss if we could help your situation.

Thank you.

Iiro Seppanen

President World Wingsuit League

Maybe the idea of hosting a professionally sponsored event out there with proceeds to help cover the costs of this incident would resonate with him.

Seems like a good way to give BASE good publicity in the town as well as solve the current issue.

Hair of the dog, as they say.

I just donated out of desire to protect the site and out of respect for the SBA's efforts. However, I question why the SBA feels they need to protect the identity of someone who has already been less than forthright in his promised payment to many prominent figures in the community. He is also someone who introduces new jumpers to the sport for money. Seems it would be beneficial to expose such a person, what are your reason for protecting their identity?

*edited for shitty spelling

Hi Lau,

As a former member of the board of SBA, I cannot comment on behalf of the SBA but can definitely comment based on my background on this topic. The SBA does not need to protect anyone. Nor it needs to give out anyone to anybody. The SBA is there purely to handle the relationships with the local actors in CH and to mitigate the damage untoughtful people cause. It does not need or want to take any sides within the sport. And believe me, that itself already is a handful so let´s let the guys to focus on the task at hand and let´s leave the tar and feathering to someone else.

Dear Iiro

Please read Markus post, it reflects exactly the opinion of the SBA. Nobody asked colleagues to bail him out. I posted this after the news contacted me and confronted me that a ban might happen in Walenstadt. I did not speak to the injured jumper but had a long and constructive conversation with the Major of Walenstadt. He is supporting us as much as he can but he will have a hard time to convince the citizens and the local parliament not to ban base jumping. The only reason why I opened the paypal account is so we can proof to the community of Walenstadt that we care. I think that is the best way to keep this spot open and to regain the sympathy of most citizens.
It is not the job of the SBA to inform who the jumper is. Our focus is to make the best out of the situation and avoid that this beautiful spot gets closed. But I can also understand if someone does not want to donate anything without knowing who the jumper is. In this case I can only advice not to donate anything. And maybe the person will come out by himself...
Cheers,
Michi, Person who talks to the mayor :-)

The Swiss staying neutral? shocking ;)

Just expressing mine, and other sentiments on the subject. Again, much respect for the work you have done and the SBA continues to do.

+ 1

If someone really wants to find out who it was they can check the incidents list...I see at least 1 major injury and rescue from Sputnik last year by a Non-Swiss Jumper.

Paypal sent. I'll probably never jump, but will support you folks when I can.

Isn't that the truth

Where are people's sense of responsibility to the Swiss and the BASE communities? Sad.

The jumper is Hubert Schober "El Amarillo" of ProBase. He is the same guy who lured top wingsuit talent to commit to his last summer's racing series with big prize money, but who actually never paid to most athletes. Hubert had already spent all the money that was wired to him for athlete's prizes already before his accident.

Swiss base association is doing a great job to keep the site open and thanks for clarifying that Hubert is not personally involved with receiving the money at the Paypal account. This helps to clarify that the donated money will actually go towards keeping the site open - not to support Hubert's lifestyle.

Really? Hubert? It´s just really hard to believe that guy who do a lot to promote BASE in a positive way acts like that...

Done.

Thanks for the info... mula sent before I knew that, but I feel better knowing what I'm paying for. As far as "the Dude" not standing up and owning his fuck-up: that shit ain't right!

Wow iiro, what a cock move.

I'm sure it wasn't at all politically motivated either.

I respect the hell out of the SBA for taking the high road.

BASE jumping is a self-policing sport. Without repercussions, the system is useless. If the jumper is indeed guilty of failing to pay his bills, then I fully support Iiro outing the jumper. Hopefully the next jumper will think twice before refusing to pay his bills, or abandoning his vehicle, or burning sites......

Well, he has has been acting like a cock, so yeah, call him out on it. If you are a dickhead and your actions (or lack thereof) are ruining the sport for everyone else, then fuck you. I'm with Iiro on this. And Jhonathan Florez has just called Hubert out in an open letter, calling for him to take responsibility for his actions.

 
I have known Hubert for a very long time. And I know that he is a good man.

All this talk on a public forum about his personal business- which is entirely between himself and the athletes involved is wrong!

....Lets not forget how much he has done for helping the 'sport' to grow in the direction it has.


Reiner.

It stopped being his "personal business" when his actions threatened access to a beautiful site for everyone.

 
People are too quick these days to judge people without knowing all the information. Please think for a moment about all the possible reasons and circumstances that could have taken place behind the scenes. We are talking about a human being here. A person who has a private life like everyone else's! And that should be respected. I know Hubert well and he is a good man and has been a good friend of mine for many,many years!. He is not a malicious person and definitely not a thief! What goes on in his personal life is none of my business. Sure- his pro-Base series does owes some people money. I can totally understand the point that the athletes involved are entitled to make. Let THEM make the point privately. However, I am very disgusted to see what is going on here in this so called community. From what I can see this is like high-school or more accurately Dropzone bullshit! You call yourselves professional athletes- however- carrying on this way is not professional at all. Is this what kind of community we are?......so quick to kick a man when he may be down!.......Think long and hard for a moment!.....Do you really think Hubert was intending to fuck people over....in this small tight community that we are! - That would have to make him the dumbest mother-fucker that I have ever known. And I know that Hubert is not a dumb mother-fucker! What ever is going on in Huberts life is his business. If he has had circumstances happen where his back was against a wall and he may have possibly made some mistakes then maybe he is in trouble and needs 'The communities' support rather than this bullshit.....to be flamed so quickly! He does not deserve this! In the 11 years I have known Hubert, he has dedicated his life and worked hard, while taking great risk to follow his dreams and build a truly wonderful and professional Base-jumping and wing-suiting series. This same series that mostly everyone involved in wing-suiting has benefitted from!......Please calm the fuck down- think a little harder. Try and see all the possibilities that could be at play here. And.....If it isn't too much to ask. Try and have some understanding and a little compassion! Give the man a chance to make good. Which- I have the complete faith he will! .........And as far as the accident at Walenstadt is concerned. I'm also pretty sure Hubert didn't intend for that to happen!.........I urge you all to think again about that. Is it a stretch to think that it could possibly happen to any one of us!- to be in a situation somewhere on this planet where we find ourselves not fully covered by our insurance companies. Come on!.....It happens all the time in the base community. It is not unusual. Although, in Huberts case, it happened in a country where a paper-clip costs 20 bucks! Again- Compassion is needed here mother-fuckers! All you Bitches who are not involved and are tearing this man down in public should be ashamed of yourselves!

Reiner.

I don't really think that's the issue here, and I don't think anyone was saying it was.

I honestly don't know and don't care about any of that.



Which is more or less what this thread was started for. The Swiss guys wanted to raise money to help pay off the bill. That _is_ supporting him.



Who calls themselves that? I'm sure that the vast majority of the people here (and I include myself) do not consider themselves "professional athletes".

People since the beginning of time have always been too quick to judge others without knowing all the information. However, in this case, we do not need to know any more than the basic facts:

Hubert crashed at Sputnik and skipped out on his medical bills and that behavior threatens one of the best wingsuit BASE sites in the world. Period. Full stop.



Not relevant. There is no excuse for skipping out on medical bills and endangering one of the best wingsuit BASE sites in the world. There is even less excuse for this when you are, in fact, an accomplished professional jumper with a long resume of technical and organizational accomplishments. It is one thing for some low-time, low-class yayhoo to crash, skip out on his medical bill, and endanger one of the world's best wingsuit BASE sites. It is worse -- way way way worse -- when someone of Hubert's stature does it. He of all people should know better, he of all people should understand the possible consequences of his actions.


Hubert does indeed deserve to have his head handed to him by "the community" for his post-crash actions at Sputnik. However, I agree with you that this thread should be devoted only to his post-crash actions at Sputnik. That is the topic and we should not stray from it.

FYI, I know Hubert, too, though not nearly as well or for as long as you do. He was the WWL chief judge at the 2012 Grand Prix and I was the "turn pylon" judge. I had never met Hubert before, nor did I know anything about him personally or professionally. What I saw and experienced at Tianmenshan was a highly intelligent, capable and consummate professional with a lot of grace, good judgment and common sense. Hubert was also a great guy to be around and every moment I spent with him or worked with him was a pleasure. The person you describe in this post is precisely the person I saw in China.


And for this, we should all: a) thank him; b) appreciate him; and c) consider all this in making any assessment of him as a person, a professional, and a fellow member of the BASE community.

But none of this gives him a pass on his post-crash conduct at Sputnik. Michi should not have had to talk to the mayor and do damage control on this - Hubert should have called the mayor and done the damage control. Neither the mayor nor the townspeople care what Hubert's personal problems are -- they want him to handle his outstanding bill, and he needs to get on the phone ASAP and do some damage control himself.


This is all well and good and good advice -- except for the fact that neither the mayor nor the people of Walenstadt share your "faith" in Hubert -- all they know about him is that he took advantage of their hospitality and left them holding the bag for big €€€.


Compassion does not pay the bill on which Hubert skipped and which now threatens one of the world's best wingsuit BASE sites, but let's make a deal: We can all show Hubert compassion when he shows some personal responsibility on this. He needs to first and foremost call the mayor himself and apologize for making a mess -- and then ask the mayor how best to proceed. The mayor might suggest an immediate public apology to "calm" the people of Walenstadt as he works out a repayment plan... there may even be a way to make lemonade out of Hubert's lemon by hosting an event to raise money not just to pay Hubert's bill but to create a "rescue fund endowment" that could be used not just to cover rescue expenses for jumpers but for anyone who needs assistance while having fun around Walenstadt.

So thank you, Reiner, for reminding us that Hubert is a good man who has contributed a lot to the BASE community, and for asking everyone to back off a little on the Hubert bashing.

The next move is up to Hubert, though. He - not Michi or the SBA - really needs to call the mayor as soon as possible and get this straightened out. Hubert has, as you so eloquently pointed out, a long list of organizational accomplishments. Figuring a good way out of this situation should be pretty easy for him if he will, as you say, "think long and hard for a moment."


44

 

Hello Tom,

I hope you are well!

I am referring to all the public slandering and deformation that is taking place against Hubert via this thread and also the open letter that JF (professional athlete) published on facebook recently. They are both connected and are dealing with the same UNFOUNDED ASSUMPTIONS. Which now have been clarified by Hubert himself!

I was extremely angry and hurt that this could be happening to someone who I have known to be a solid guy for many years.

It illustrates perfectly the changes that has slowly taken place in the base-jumping community over the years. While there has been many positive changes and progression in the 'sport'- which, Hubert himself has worked very hard for and has made happen!...........there are sadly also negative changes and aspects that have slowly taken place over the last few years. We used to be a community of outlaws....shunned-sometimes even excommunicated by the dropzones that we loved. We were drawn together by a love of adventure and flight and developed a close bond while we worked out how to safely do this thing called base-jumping. For me- those were the best years! When base was still mysterious. When we were standing on the exit-point together not caring how 'big' we were compared to our fellow jumper!- Knowing that we were risking it all and sharing a real moment with a person we truly cared about!........Sad to say but those years are gone! With the in-flux of money and potential fame.....and dare I say skydivers (who- once they realized that the outlaws had worked out proper techniques and developed safer gear) ....jumped aboard and have since hi-jacked our 'sport' and with their skydive 'fame', have now taken it in a completely different direction. Some would say that it is a better direction- the same way politicians insist that Capitalism is progress. I would argue that it isn't. It hurts me to know that many of my friends who are long dead- worked so hard to keep ethics and responsible community spirit alive in this 'sport'.....And now Tom, I am sure you may agree. Ethics and responsible community are all but lost. When I started base- you were one of the jumpers I wrote to for advice. I was a newbie-I knew my place-I knew nothing. I was seeking advice to become a better,safer jumper. I didn't care about trying to show how good I was to everybody. I knew the risks involved and you know what - they were worth it! For those real bonds, the risks were definitely worth it. These days....new base jumpers want to climb to the top straight away- mostly concerned about being associated with the big names and showing how good they are. Wanting above all to be regarded as better than the next fellow. It's high-school stuff going on now. wanting to be in with the in-crowd. But the risks are the same.

Our community has become one of competition, networking and fake-smiles. Most people now are motivated by the desire of being top-dog. This is fucked up and disrespectful to the people in the past who worked hard to try and show the Drop-zones and the world that base-jumpers are not reckless, or disrespectful of life, their fellow man and the environment.

As has just been demonstrated with Hubert...(and I am very shocked and saddened to see is happening to him!).... This competition within the community has also caused certain people to quickly-pounce on their fellow base-jumper- taking the first opportunity possible to try and tear the competition down.

Not fucking cool at all! And it really makes me ashamed to be a part of such a community!

....However-It doesn't have to be this way!


Reiner

 
Hey buddy....You are showing your ignorance!

Hubert did not 'skip' on his bill!

......go see his response to JF's open letter on Facebook.


.....See this is exactly what I mean!....uninformed, presumptuous Bitches....(with a capital B I might add!)

....Don't people realize this behavior can ruin people's lives and careers! Fuck it makes me mad!

Reiner

If you're so effing smart and informed, sir, then why did you not refer us all instantly to the FB post?

Why did you not instantly reproduce that post here?

Why did Hubert not post his response here too?

And why do you not post now the link to what he wrote on FB instead of talking the same little bitch poop to Tom and me for which you denounced others?

I tried to make a reasoned and fair response to this situation based on the information I had. It is not my job to scour the internet.

Seriously, sir, why in your holier-than-thou screed did you not inform us of this Facebook response until after Tom and I responded in a reasonable and problem-solving way.

Why did you instead then respond to our reasoned and reasonable examinations and this issue with precisely the same bitchy bile of which you accuse others on this thread?

Time to grow up, son, and the first step toward growing up is to look in the mirror. Suffice to say that with "friends" such as you claim to be, Hubert needs no enemies.


44

 

Hey Mr....I don't know you at all, So I'm going to simply call you Bitch B. (Bitch A slot is taken by JF)

Firstly. I don't owe you any explanation. Neither does Hubert. You are simply another uninformed, presumtuous Bitch on the internet!

Read your first post here again. You have slandered a friend of mine without knowing any facts. This is clear to see in your post.

If you post something. then it is your responsibility to make sure it is correct. If what you are saying is untrue- which it is. then you are open for attack!

Everything I have said is positive. In defense of a good friend who I knew for certain was not what you Bitches were saying he was. It is not my obligation to prove that he is a good person. It is your obligation to NOT say anything bad about someone- potentially harming their career and their lives when you no nothing at all about them or their situation!

My cursing- however, because it was directed at all the mother-fuckers and Bitches like yourself who have posted slanderous things up about another person...... by the laws of humanity....makes it quite justified.

I'd like this opportunity to close off conversation with you Bitch B, by saying FUCK YOU!!! .....I'm not your 'son'!


Reiner

Thanks for posting. The little boy throwing the temper tantrum could have done this himself if he was actually interested in problem solving and truly defending Hubert's reputation.

What's funny is that Hubert already did exactly what I suggested (even better because he met the mayor in person!) and is in fact conducting himself precisely the way I said a person of his stature in the community should conduct himself.

So, kudos to Hubert for handling this properly. The little boy could learn a thing or two from Hubert's example, and I stand by my suggestion that perhaps there is some way to make lemonade out of this lemon by coming up with some sort of fundraising event to endow a rescue fund that could benefit jumpers, paragliders, hikers et al in the Walenstadt area. Miles Daisher and his wife do something similar to this each year for the Potato Bridge community to raise money for the local children's hospital.

Hubert's accident did in fact precipitate a crisis -- Sputnik could be shut down. But along with that danger comes the opportunity to better connect jumpers with the community and make everything work better for everyone.


44

 

....nice try to save face, once proved wrong Bitch B.

.....Pathetic!


Reiner

Robin,
You act as typical American politician here. First you throw the rock ( or shoot in the head ) than ( after finding more facts ) you apologize
heh...

This case is /was super easy..
Call Hubert or write Hubert E mail
Call Julian or write Julian E mail

As you are well informed , you know that TV who promise the money is South African company so SA = Julian ( person who has major interest to get what he earned.
Well, obviously it is more fun and more entertaining for some people to throw rocks on Hupsi without checking!
Most of those call other jumpers Brothers, mate, friends, buddy , family... but here we see the weight of all of those words..
Sad.

I didn't apologize, Robi. I said only that it was great that Hubert has already done what I suggested that he do... and that I am not surprised he would act that way. I was surprised to hear otherwise, actually, and that is why I tried to calm things down and suggest some positive things.

Fortunately, Hubert had already done all of that, and yes, I should not have assumed that the SBA told the whole story in its post, or that any of the other poop and counter-poop had any basis in fact.

My bad, but here you guys are all going after me when I said only good things about Hubert personally and said only that he should take responsibility for his actions and act like the professional that he is -- all of which he had already done.

So Hubert clearly agrees with everything I said because he did exactly what I said he should do -- before I even said it.

Thus Hubert and I are apparently on exactly the same page, and we as a community seem to be well on the way to a solution both for Hubert personally and for the continued use of one of the world's best wingsuit BASE sites.

So what exactly is sad about that?


44

P.S. I have no idea why you mention Julian or South Africa TV to me. I spoke no word about anything not related to Hubert and Sputnik except to say in my original post that anything not Sputnik-related had no place in this thread. You are apparently conflating my posts with those of someone else.

bla bla

Tom, Anyone care to quantify the exact outstanding bill for the rescue and medical expenses so that we can get this into perspective again?

There are apparently two separate but perhaps related issues here:

1) Rescue and medical expenses in Walenstadt;
2) Organizational politics, particularly relating to some prize money from some events.

Personally I don't know and don't care about the second. From reading some of the Facebook postings though, it seems clear that that second issue is actually the bigger one for some people.

Please, let's try to keep the discussion in this thread about the first topic (expenses in Walenstadt) and constructive discussion of how we can help to improve that situation.

I'm going to start splitting off discussion of the second issue (competition, organization, prize money, etc) into another thread or threads.

Thank you to everyone for keeping this thread on topic.

That's a question for Michi, I think.

But it sounds like helping (even if we come up short of actually making the full amount) however much we can will still be useful.

Even if the medical/rescue bills be paid post incident, which of course they should, the locals will still be left with an impending feeling that this situation will inevitably occur again. How best to reassure them will be difficult without imposing restrictions concerning obligatory assurance and strict policing methods, all of which the Base community does not have.

Update:
Regarding the Amount of the hospital bill, I have only unofficial information, but it should be more or less correct. The bill is between CHF 25’000.—and 30’000.—
Until today, we have collected around CHF 2’500.—
I would like to thank everyone who donated money very much!
The paypal account will be open until beginning next week, after that I will close it and send the money to Walenstadt. I will inform on this website and on the SBA Facebook site the development of this.
Cheers and happy jumping for everyone!

Good work Michi, just donated.

So, trying hard to sift through the general nonsense that occurs in these forums, I'm left with 2 questions, more out of curiosity than an influence to my support, but nevertheless:

1) Is the bill actually outstanding, or is it just 'pending' as Hubert claims in his response, in which case why is everyone so up-in-arms about it all just yet? And to that end, I sincerely hope that this help won't be considered as payment and the medical expenses will be settled separately and in full when any insurance dispute is settled, regardless of the outcome.

2) How is the money going to the community? Reimbursement to the hospital, a check to the mayor, or a couple CHF in every mailbox in town?

Keeping 'our community' properly informed of the real and full situation from the beginning I think would be more beneficial than putting out a general call with no details asking for money and letting minds run wild, fears take hold, egos inflate, etc... In other words, give the community a chance to act as a community by considering the general personality types of people who jump off stuff for fun.

I don't know anyone involved here personally, nor have I jumped at Walenstadt. But I have spent a lot of time in Switzerland for other pursuits and I hope to return soon, hopefully to this site. I will donate what I can to ensure I can do that, but sadly, as I have read through this mess and tried to inform myself of the situation, the infighting and pettiness have shifted my motivations from benevolence to a community I want to be more involved in to more-or-less a selfish desire to maintain a life goal. That's worth consideration by some of the more experienced guys here in what has (for better or worse) become a rapidly growing and far more accessible sport to us newbies!

hey everyone
just to give you all an update, more than CHF 4'000.-- came together. This is a nice amount and I will forward the money next week to the mayor.
I want to thank everyone who spent some money for this. With collecting this money we can prove that we take responsibilty for what happens with us. I will keep you guys updated on how the situation evolves in Walenstadt.
Take care and air,
Michi

Hello dear jumpers

I closed the paypal account today and forwarded today CHF 4'100.-- to the comunity of Walenstadt. The total amount was a bit less with all the comission paypal takes :-( but I rounded it up so I think Walenstadt will be happy with this.

A part from the money comes from an old paypal account which was opend a couple of years ago in order to plant some trees at la mousse because they where cut down for a TV production. But this never happend and all the people who donated money at that time (and did not die in the meantime) agreed that I can use this money for Walenstadt.

So thank you again to everyone who donated money!!!

The mayor of Walenstadt told me various times that for him the most important thing is that everyone who jumps in Switzerland needs to have an accident insurance. If comunities need to pay for jumpers without insurance, this will stop base jumping in Switzerland. We Swiss are very friendly but when it comes to money, fun stops for us :-)

Cheers