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BASE jumping at Camelback Mountain here in Arizona has recently come under attack from a local bureaucrat and one disgruntled neighbor. There will be a city council meeting this Thursday, Feb 27th at 5PM discussing a potential ban. The meeting will be held at City County Chambers, 200 W Jefferson St. Phoenix, AZ.

I know that most people that read this won't be able to make it but please sign this petition.

Repost and share this so we do not lose this gem.

https://www.change.org/...e-keep-the-park-open

We need to band together on this. BASE is overwhelmingly supported in the community but could easily be taken away because of a loud and very small minority.

(edited for terrible copy and pasting skills)

Signed.

Signed.

Done.

signed and forwarded to friends

Signed

what is the neighbor disgruntled about? Politician just trying to get his name out? What is there stance besides they don't like it?

I have reposted several places and has gotten quite a few views. These are also questions asked there

Signed, looks like it reached the 500 mark pretty quickly.

check

We have been kept out of the loop with a lot of the details. Fortunately, we have some friends that informed us of the upcoming vote. We didn't find out until 2 days ago so this is why everything is so short notice.

Basically, from the details I have is that there is at least one neighbor who spends a lot of time complaining about hikers, helis, and jumpers. There might be more grumblers but overwhelmingly I have had positive experiences with people living in the area.

After Doobie's accident (drunk at night from the wrong exit) and a separate strike that did not result in injury or require rescue, higher ups in the city council got wind and begin complaining and calling for a ban.

I'm sure there is more but it is ridiculous. Hikers get heli-rescued off of that mountain at least once a week and the only fatalities that have ever happened were the direct result of Africanized bee attacks. Only two BASE jumps have resulted in rescues, and those rescues, due to the location of the cliff, required minimal equipment and no helicopters.

A few of us are going to speak at the meeting and we are doing everything we can to rally support but this would be a bad precedent to set. We already have more than enough nanny laws in the US and this one would be a major setback to BASE in AZ and the US.

 
I would go in there and ask questions instead of begging them not to ban it.
Don't explain yourself. Ask them questions to put them on their heels. By asking questions you are deposing them of their position of authority and putting yourself in the drivers seat. They are answering to you at this stage. Be smart with your questions, make them reveal that BASE is doing no harm instead of you trying to explain or justify your reasons.
You can't convince anyone of anything... they have to realize the absurdity themselves. Best way to do that is to engage them with questions.

How is BASE jumping creating more of an impact on city resources more than any other activity?
Where are you getting your numbers from?
What if any expenses have BASE jumpers incurred while jumping in the area?
Are you aware of the economic impact that visiting jumpers have on the area that would be lost if there is a ban? (Talk about a single jumpers costs when coming to the area then multiply it by an estimate of jumpers that come there per year. The boogie is a start for numbers)

If they make accusations, do not defend, ask them to provide details and proof.

They may claim ecological impacts by jumpers. Ask them to provide proof such as photos or surveys by qualified individuals showing deterioration of the area that is greater than other uses. Ask them if they have been made aware of the positive ecological impact jumpers have on the area by picking up trash of others? Provide proof if any.

They may say that lawsuits are a concern. Ask them to provide proof of that concern by showing some examples of lawsuits by BASE jumpers.

They may say noise is a concern. Ask them to provide proof that the noise created by jumpers is any greater than other activities.

You need to provide more evidence FOR jumping than they have AGAINST it. If you continually ask them questions that they do not have answers for or the answers favor jumping then their case has been weakened considerably. and our case is strengthened.
If you go in there and talk about other rescues and issues with hikers and/or other park users then make sure you have proof/source of your statement instead of just your statement.

What is the main issue with jumping?
Who is supporting the opposition?
What political ties do they have?

These are just some of the questions that came to me off the top of my head and I'm sure there are many other questions that could be thought of to ask them to weaken their case.

Exactly. We aren't planning on defending it, because defense automatically means you are participating in an activity that demands justification to "authority". I am not going to defend my right to drive or my right to hike or anything else.

I appreciate the ideas and advice. We are open to advice and input from anyone and everyone. It would be a bad precedent to set if this measure goes through, especially considering how positive the relationship has been here with the rangers and local community.

+1

Also, make it obvious that you're taking notes. (Not melodrama, just active pen upon notebook).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQNt45Cjkc

: )

We simply need to make sure that representatives know we aren't just rag-tag athletes with backpacks full of nylon. They need to know that many of us are more educated, well-read, and well-traveled than they are, and that we are constituents, and that we vote, and that we influence others who vote. That's all.

I concur doctor

Signed, good luck Guys

Pass out 'Girls of Nylon' calendars!

Thanks for stepping up and representing the masses who could not attend the meeting

This is good advice. They do not care personally about BASE jumpers. In fact, most likely think we're nuts. We do not present a powerful political force, therefore yelling about your "civil rights" or discrimination won't get you far. After all, this is Arizona, not a bastion of liberality. Therefore, if you have to discuss pros and cons, start with the NPS versus BLM approach. The NPS, by regulating an activity that hurts no one else, spends hundreds of thousands a year on surveillance, extra rangers or diverting rangers duties to BASE jumpers and for what? The BLM, has made a much wiser choice in it's use of resources. It just doesn't prohibit BASE. True, it is up to us to police ourselves in today's world. The media blows any extreme death out of proportion and makes everyone feel they have a duty to protect us from ourselves. BUT, take advantage of the fact you are out west. Use Idaho and the BLM approaches to your advantage. The big issue out west and with the modern version of political Tea Partiers and Libertarians that are all over the west, is to keep the Govt. out of your private life. In AZ you can strap on a gun in public in most places. Let them know that this behavior of BASE doesn't hurt anyone else and furthers the notion of personal freedom and exploration. Convince them you will try to ensure safe practices and that jumpers have their own insurance for the most part. Also stress that they shouldn't waste Phoenix and Arizona tax dollars to police people who just want to practice their exciting sport. Do ask questions. Make them justify with facts why they need to divert City funds to this effort. Don't let them get away with platitudes like some networks, (sorry Fox). Ask them to produce facts to support their claims and proposed actions. And then, if you win, get word out to these clowns who go up too screwed up to make a half way safe BASE jump. I've been there, but not in a place that was being used by lots of jumpers. Don't burn a good thing.
Rick H
38

Hi every one,

I know half of the appeal for base is the illicit nature of the sport, but it occurs to me that there is a successful model for maintaining legal objects and opening up new ones. The accessfund is an organization that helps to represent climbers. Its just a thought. I know that it'll never happen, and I'm sure its been suggested before.

The Accessfund model is good, but it requires numbers. As an example, I am a climber who is an Access Fund member and I know hundreds of fellow climbers in my home state. But I only know of maybe three active jumpers, one of which is me here in good ole TN. So thousands of climbers, and only a handful of jumpers.

I did the deed with the petition, best of luck in AZ.

Any updates?

We will schedule a followup meeting for the next few weeks. Lots of misinformation and confusion so we will see how it goes. There is no present plan to shut it down but there was that vibe from a few of the council members. We will just keep attacking it.