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I precede this post with a warning, this is not in anyway related to any recent events...only a warning for those that I have spoken with personally and advised that maybe they should revise there progression expectations.

It is my opinion that North America currently has no sufficient places to begin and progress in the sport of wingsuit BASE jumping. I continue to get messages and questions from people asking me where they can do there first wingsuit BASE jump in the states. Europe has the only objects in the world that allow for repetitive training that will safe-ishly allow you to gauge your progression for other objects world wide.

Save your pennies, go to Europe...learn to fly, then bring it back home.

Unless you live in near a certain valley, hike/jump/climb there A LOT...your chances of learning to jump proficiently in the states are very slim.

Oh come on man, stop holding out! Tell everybody about the sweet beginner Moab jumps

there is enough if you are willing to hike.

What about climbing 2k' A's?

balloons, balloons, balloons !!! or europe or both preferably

still air exit, no chance to hit anything. you can pick the altitude. pay a little more get out of that flying soda can and get some still air exit practice and learning to get flying out of the dead air.

While balloons are a great bridge to BASE and a good way to gauge exit stability. In my opinion they will not prepare you for North American wingsuit BASE. The complete lack of relativity leaves you with no real way to gauge progress. Correct if I'm wrong but I think the op is talking about more then just getting your first few jumps. Preparing for most NA exits will take a hundred or even hundreds of jumps from safeish objects. We lack places to gain this progressive experience. Yes there are places to do first jumps, but then what.

If you can afford ballon jumps, save up twenty of them, do one good ballon jump and buy a plan ticket over the pond. Or lobby your congressman...

i agree that, that is the best advice.

i personally went the multiple balloon jumps, to 2000' vertical/5000' E route state side. big antennas are good too.
i received free balloon jumps through ground crew time with a balloon pilot. and now he considers me an asset. when im there no one has any complaints and when im not there he says its always something...ride was too short, went too high, etc etc. contact balloon pilots people! a sturdy basket will not give like some say. 99% the experience of a dead air exit without the chance of hitting anything. but to with what nick said...it is not a quick step to short starts, that takes dedication well beyond your first wingsuit base jump.

Balloon jumping in my opinion is not sufficient training for WS base exits that require a quick start. A step in the progression, but that’s it, just a step. Take it from Nick, he scared the poop out of us, and himself on his first ws jumps last summer ;) Like he said though, without visual features to gauge your progress and correctly adjust AoA, angle of your push and direct feedback to changes in body position, progress is limited. Last year I met a jumper at Brevent who explained to me he was current from jumping balloons. He died in front of us that afternoon from exiting too head high in sub optimal conditions. No judgment or finger pointing, just hope to lead others away from a false sense of security in regards to balloon ws training.

Scared the poop out of you only once I hope and the first 4 went fine... Lesson learned don't push to hard against grip tape with 5.10 rubber on your feet. Still can't believe both booties came off, still zipped and snapped! If I had short cut my way to that day I probably wouldn't have flown out of that situation!

That is not the lesson you should have learned... It should be more about center of gravity and having solid foot placement...

refer to my last sentence lau :)
i am wearing that guys ashes around my neck.
we did our first ws base jumps together and was in way over his head at brevent.
all the balloon does is get your comfortable with dead air inflation and nothing else. 100 balloon jumps does not set you up for 5-6 second rock drops but what it does is put you ahead of the curve for your first 10+ second rock drop/learning exits. i have a shit load of balloon jumps but will never talk them up to be anything more than a bunny hill.

Use plastic soles on wet rock!

And then static line the perrine to learn WS exits.

I agree with most of the stuff being said in this post but would like to note that in Europe not all walls are created equal... Unfortuntately lot of people spend considerable amount of money on plane tickets etc and then choose a sub optimal place for their first WS base jumps. Namely the disney land of basejumping aka "the swiss valley". The valley is a cool place but the walls are not that long (around 8-10s) and the overall height is only up to 600m (on the basic exits). That combination makes it from my point of view defintely sub optimal for starting WS base. From my point of view the best place to start WS base is actually outside of the Alps, in southwestern norway. In Kjerag you have 14s (or something) rock drop with 1000m overall height available in very decent amount of hiking. So whilst saving up the cash to fly to europe, also choose the best places in europe for your trip.

From the sounds of things it seems like 12+ sec is exponentally safer than 8 or less. But in a ws i dont think this is the case im not avocting shorter starts for first flights just pointing out that it is only marginally safer most that go unstable will unitentionally fly themselfs back into the wall well before they use up the drop trying to get stable something to think about before making your first ws flight you wont be just falling straight down until you recover like a normal jump. I think bigger drops give many a faulse sense of security.

I am struggling to understand your logic here imsparticus. If you are on a beginning WS you will notice a rather large difference between 8sec and 12sec rock drop. This extra altitude on exit should be your only sense of security. Stability on exit should be something learnt well before ever considering a beginner WS.

"most that go unstable will unitentionally fly themselfs back into the wall well before they use up the drop trying to get stable "
What are you basing this fabricated statistic on? From my experience i would say most deal with their less than perfect exit with obvious loss of attitude.

All im saying is that 12+sec in a ws isnt nearly as helpful as 12 sec in a normal jump my statistic is based on how much more dynamic a ws is compare to a jumper i honestly cant comprehend how anyone in a ws can unintentiinally hit the point 8 sec directly below them let alone 12+ with or without stability. Im obviuosly talking walley jumps no serious terrain after the drop

So, what would you suggest?



I dont do those jumps anymore, not judging, it just aint for me.....
takecare
space

I'm going to have to go with Dunny on this one. When I was learning I had a really bad exit, like head high almost a pencil into the air. I was really happy to have Norwegian altitude to get flying. For sure you can get stupid and kill yourself anywhere but I'm not totally sure the high nose's vertical would have saved me...

Flipwithit, my example might have been a little closer to home than I had intended. Now that I know who you are, I know we've already had this conversation. Give me a shout when you got some concrete travel plans this summer/fall.

I think some of the dead wingers would agree with your point.
take care,
space,,,

contact your government. 3 months in a prison sux and there are 3 that i know of who did the time. Get yo sheet togther. A beginner pg pilot has way more knowledge than 90% of GoProBASErs and they, have a paper trail for the guv to deny responsibility USHG
. as long as the peeps want to play outlaw and or free to have fun without responsibility in the United Police States of America it aint gonna happen on big scale. The Zion fatal is a direct result of the nps's prohibition amongst many other fatals and farkups. imho they have killed more than they have saved.

i left USA 20 yrs before just so i could jump as a free man. it was exciting to escape from the police or rangers for me but sometimes one wishes to hi five the jump buddies and have a beer rather than freakin out with paranoia on the way to a getawaycar out of fear from incarceration and gear confiscation.
If you want to do something that is great. otherwise just come over to my home DZ ITW. It costs less than a life's 3 months of wages for low paid.
take care and pm me for any contacts or strats you need.
space.

Are the 600m LB exits ok for 1st WS base?
Or would you suggest other places to learn?

This is a rhetorical question folks.

Please do some research.

1000m is highly recommended for 1st WS with at least 400m rockdrop

You are correct Sir, I over simplified the lesson, the angle of the push and exit, along with the step prior to were the cause of the bootie slippage. Solid foot placement that allows a strong push in the intended direction would have prevented the slip.

and at least 1 season of terminal tracking will give you a much smoother transition to WSbase

If you are competent tracker and want do 1st WSbase from big overhung wall please get in touch.
Must be able to hike for 4 hours.

Well! I can,... I have seen steep WS exits where the jumper is flying head down back toward the wall, and, not being much of "a natural ", found myself in that position on a couple of my early jumps.

Wingsuit BASE is not going away, it is a growing activity, balloon exits are only a part of the progression but are certainly limited as to simulating other aspects of the BASE environment.

There are a number of ideal spots in the USA but with only a couple of exceptions they belong to the NPS who choose not to allow anyone (including American citizens ), the use of them. The National Park Service has been responsible in the past for the deaths of individuals participating in the sport of BASEjumping and by denying access to prime sites in a growing activity it is fair to say that they are endangering the lives of many more to come.

Having hiked that legal Big Wall in Washington State twice in one day, and also Dunny's "way overhung" wall, ( yep, 4 hrs if you're Norwegian ), The best site I know of to make multiple jumps with the least effort is definitely Kjerag, you can get more jumps more easily in the Swiss Valley, but I have to agree with Maretus the added altitude of Lysbotn is a huge safety bonus when learning to Huck yourself of a cliff wearing a "straightjacket".
So it's probably a good idea that no matter where you choose to jump, not to lose site of the fact that that's basically what you're doing.[;)]
Regards, B.

I personally did my first ws jumps in the swiss valley...although I dont advocate that for everyone

Would you local DZ let you do your 1st WS jumps from 1800´?

Why do you think that is?

There are very appropriate places to learn this if you are serious about it and have relative training (Terminal Tracking)

That was my point exactly what I wanted to point out. So from my perspective the best places to learn WS BASE actually are outside of the Alps. Swiss valley is reasonably ok for exit training with WS but that´s about it. I wrote "reasonably ok" because the rock drops are still quite short for exit practise. Regarding learning to fly in base environment, that place is awful. If you count say 200m for a reasonable beginner start and (as with WS you want to pull reasonably high) 200m for a pull altitude, from the high nose you get whopping 180 vertical m´s of real flight. As this is quite short, you don´t learn anything and as everyone obviously is in it for the flight, it advocates people to fly further and hence pull lower. Which again has been proven time and time again very dangerous (and also fatal). So like Dunny wrote, if you are serious about it, find the best suitable place for it.

It's illegal and doesn't mesh well with the operation of modern skydiving gear. So what's your point?

I did my first WS BASE jumps in a 2000' wire-guyed tower. No elevator. Great platform in my opinion.

It's pennies in comparison to balloons, helis, or Europe. And it has it's own novel awesome. Half mile of vertical steel, with a ladder inside.

There are plenty of places in the US that are suitable for first wingsuit flights. Antennas and big illegal cliffs mainly, and there are some reasonable legal sites to graduate to shortly after those first few are out of the way.

We have to remember: SAFETY FIRST. Better to risk bust and go jump some juicy national park cliff than to risk your neck by jumping a smaller less spectacular cliff that is not in a national park and be outside of your comfort zone.

The other thing about it is that, yes, we do not have the ideal big wall setup here in the United States, but we do have the best damn skydiving facilities in the world and plenty of them. So, when looking for fun times in a wingsuit, go to your local skydive zone and pound out another hundred jumps on your suit. Before long you will realize that you are so damn good at wingsuit flying that the USA's legal sites are more quickly in reach skills prep wise.

The time to see whether or not you can clear an 8 second ledge is not when you have to clear it to survive. I told this to a friend of mine that went to the swiss valley with 10 jumps and no terminal experience. It seems just as true for wingsuit as it is for tracking.

A lot of the wingsuit incidents seem kind of analogous to swooping. Someone gets a new canopy and instead of starting the progression over they jump right into doing a 270 degree turn and promptly bounce. Also if they just flat out don't have the swoop experience at all, but do have lots of jumps. People feel they are safe if they have a lot of jumps, but it isn't about jumps--more a question of have they done the proper preparation to fly a given line or exit point. Ie. if it's a 6 second rock drop they are confident on 8 sec. Also similar to solid slider down, it's not do you have 50 jumps, but if you can run off the exit and take a delay.

The big suit thing gets thrown around a lot as a root cause for accidents, but has it been implicated in the incidents? What is a big suit anyway? Is a V3 still big in the era of Tony Suits and Squirrel?

Good point.
Most experienced jumpers presently have acquired their experience coinciding with the development of suits. I noticed that most people who are jumping the newest high performance suits seem to have made it a point to get current on their familiar suits before making their initial flights on a newer high performance suit, in Europe anyway. Seems like common sense to follow a progression by starting out on the most forgiving suit, although plenty of people get away with short tracking it, which goes for location also, I'm pretty sure that's what Maretus would like to see to protect the Swiss Valley, which has seen far too many incidents.
As far as big Antennas being ideal first WS jump locations, they present their own problems, especially with headings and instability, I remember watching Calvin 19 "killing it " on that big stick, I and some others had less than desirable experiences,
Regards B.

Good point about the big antenna B. I have a friend who went up that same stick with a wingsuit and had some serious trouble due to high winds. I wasn't there, but he said the wind knocked him over and he had some trouble getting it straightened out and flying the right direction. His story made me reconsider flying a ws off that - but I have a couple nice tracking suit jumps from it and had just as much fun!

Yeah... I suppose high wind is not the best time to WS a big stick. I have seen some not so good high wind WS exits there. You can always stash the suit in your shirt or just toss it off and do a slider up jump.

A lot of talk about Norway but not too much focus on ITW here.

What's the rock drop at ITW? Isn't it overhung a little? For many I think the cost and location of ITW make it a more accessible first site.

I've never been, but I'm headed that way in the summer. Interested to hear any thoughts on this.

Edited to remove location name.

One of the first ever WS jumps from an A in the US was done by outrager in high winds. On exit the wind caught the legwing and flipped him. Full gainer. Scared the crap out of me as I watched but he was able to come out of it fine and get well away from the tower.

High winds are no joke if you are taking a wingsuit from an A.

I am not a Wingsuiter but have jumped ITW.
I think ITW would be an okay E for someone's
first WS-BASE jump BUT they'd have to stick
to the tracking suit protocol of ONLY jumping
around sunrise or sunset due to the winds...
plus he or she should NOT try making it to
the LZ on their first visit to this mountain

Also second the idea of using very tall antennas
but again, only during the ideal wind conditions.

I dont know about that. I think I did close to 30 ws BASE jumps in america before I went out of the country. My first few were off big As as well. Really nice training tools in the right conditions. Just as you wouldnt wingsuit a cliff in horrible conditions, dont do an A either. I think ive seen 4-5 people do their first wingsuit jumps on that same A, and know of a bunch more who have as well. Getting reps is definitely not as easy though.

Well, they shouldn't make it the goal of the jump... but it's certainly possible for a well prepared jumper in a modern mid-range suit and if they find themselves clearing the hill at skydive height there's no reason not to keep going.

Add one more to the list of people who did their first wingsuit jumps off those A's, can think of a few others as well. Then went a little east to a certain E that resembles part of a sphere. Adding the illegal component makes it a little more nerveracking though, on top of adding a wingsuit to the equation. I agree with you, it can be done in the US (at least a part of it anyway), but I think it is a lot easier to get more condensed training in Norway or ITW - and without 2000' ladders. Plus, you are guaranteed to see experienced jumpers who are more than willing to share tricks and tips.

My first two WS BASE jumps were from 1700 and 1500 A's, middle of the night with barely any light. It worked well, but obviously a nice daylight 3K cliff would have been nice. Of course all this was before Tony's flying mattresses and I was using an S3 :)

If looking to a safe place for first WS jump, i tought it is reasonable to also wait for great weather conditions.
Would you say " yes antennas are good for first ws, but when i did it was so foggy that i was not able to know where i go and when i need to pitch" no! So high wind +any safe exit you can find= not good....

One of the traditional advantages of Antennas? Big antennas in BASE jumping is that with a strong tailwind "splitting the wires " it has been virtually impossible to get in trouble, at least regarding canopy opening orientation, perhaps one of the safest fixed object jumps available, in the right conditions. however, jumping a strong tailwind has not proven ideal with a WS. So, as far as being ideal for first WS jumps, the jumper needs to jump in lower wind conditions, and thus has to "nail " his exit and flight trajectory.

I suspect I did my first from the same one, or one nearby. The one I went off had a nice solid platform to stand on and to provide initial separation from the truss. I don't think I'd recommend someone do their first from a normal truss beam. I could see all kinds of nasty getting delivered. But hey, I don't really wingsuit anymore and Chuck probably did more WS jumps last year than I've done in my life. So hey. Free advice, worth every penny.