Basejumper.com - archive

The STRONGlite

http://vimeo.com/m/86120127

And I'd bet they'll come with the same level of customer service and reasonable lead times Squirrel is already known for!

fuck the rig, i want the dominatrix

That sure beats the marketing videos from Apex

I'm not sure I' clear on how it adjust. Does the webbing start with the risers, run down the main lift web, around the leg, and then behind the back? National used to have those sliding hip junctions that allowed you to adjust the MLW. Is the upper junction sewn like normal? I'd like a better explanation.

And thumbs up on the best ad I've ever seen.

Lee

Where is the "Innovative" part? Long rig, light hardware. I fail to see any innovation. What I do see is a fat and wrinkled container.
I also love the marketing that came up with "A small amount of 3D shaping in the upper and lower side panels increases tension at these crucial points".

It looks like the webbing does a fig8 around the body like you said, but the hip is sewn fixed.

At the risk of sounding like shreddex, i had been giving some thought for a while to a different way than standard of running the webbing and minimise stitching and had come out with almost the same.

My 'idea' was for the risers themselves being part of the harness, each riser being one half of the double webbing, and for them to run riser/mlw/hip junction/sit/groin/laterals/across the back (in an x-pattern rather than straight up)/over the shoulder and sewn to the opposite riser-mlw 'junction'.

I think they do the same but the risers being sewn separately?

Using the variable webbing width techniques that are now popular in climbing harnesses like Arcteryx's WST coupled with the above would increase comfort (and price) and shave a few more grams, although having a good dump and a hair cut before the walk-in would probably achieve the same.

You've probably never seen one but the old Prestige container did something like that. I'll try to describe. Keep in mind that it had all the standard hard ware. There were the riser groups, right and left. And there was the back strap which was all one piece of webbing. The risers, one 7 and one 8 started at the reserve canopy went down the front to the upper junction, MLW, hip junction, butt, groin, and went through the hard ware. The back strap started at the upper junction on the right side. It went up over the shoulder and diagonally to the left side of the rig several inches up the side. The came down around the side of the body to the left hip junction where it was sewn. Down around the hardware. Back up to the left corner of the rig, turned slightly, across the lower back to the right corner of the rig. a small turn and down to the right hip junction. Down to the hard ware. Back up to the right hip junction and up to the side of the rig a few inches above the corner. Across the back. Over the left shoulder and down to the left upper junction. All three of these layers passed through the slot in the three ring. And a loop of type 8 wrapped around the RW 1 and was included on the bottom side of the stack of the upper junction. That seem ridiculously long to describe some thing so simple.

It's similar to old school military harnesses. It actually distributes the load very nicely if done right. You can do some thing like this with no hard ware where the MLW passes through a slot in the Lower lateral, perhaps with a loop. So you can tighten the leg straps by sliding the MLW up out of the which basically just shifts the container up and down on your back. On opening the harness tightens around your legs as you hang from the front side of the webbing.

Is that even vaguely comprehensible to any one else?

Lee

surely this must be considered innovative.

any part of the harness can be loaded in any direction safely when rappelling or climbing.

I believe that's innovative in Europe.

Well if you are sure then how could it possibly have ever been done before. But only if you are very very sure

which part of that statement dont you find innovative?

This is not the first time a climbing harness has been incorporated into a BASE rig, therefore it cannot be claimed as innovative.
I would also think that if you were advocating people swing from their chest strap, then maybe it would also have been a good idea to have the chest strap junction exposed to allow for easy inspection.

 
I read one other comment on fb about how this rig shows a lack of innovation. I don’t think we used “innovative” in any of our product descriptions, that I can remember. Now that it’s common knowledge that we at Squirrel are not just making wingsuits, I would like to state, for the record, a few things.

- There are a lot of excellent containers currently on the market. If you have something that you are perfectly happy with and don’t see the point in ordering one from Squirrel, then I don’t either. Why would you? There are a lot of people out there who don’t already own a brand new, or perfect-for-them, wingsuit rig. This product is for those people, and we look forward to meeting them.

- I chose the buckles because after 20 years of rock climbing, I couldn’t imagine using the “standard” giant steel contraptions on a lightweight rig. We searched long and hard and looked at buckles from every existing climbing manufacturer (and in the paragliding harness world) and settled on these because they don’t slip. There are many ultralite buckles out there, but many of them, even from very large and leading climbing manufacturers, travel and slip. The buckles we are using from Metolius USA are mated perfectly with the width of webbing (which is also supplied by them) and are truly locking. But… that webbing, and those buckles, are “only” rated to just over 3000lbs… which would be enough if some BASE jumpers didn’t have the terrible habit of keeping their gear around for years and years and not taking particularly good care of it. Rated strengths are only an indication of long term durability and we were not content to build the harness entirely out of these materials even though the load testing proved it would be plenty strong. So, we decided in the end to use traditional, durable double type 8, and save the buckle weight by using these climbing buckles to adjust the width of the leg straps. It is, essentially, similar in weight to a sewn-leg-loop lightweight container, but with adjustable leg-loops. The buckles and light adjustment webbing are backed up by the traditional construction.

- Weight was just one concern. Not long ago on this forum we saw photos of a chest strap that was sewn “traditionally”, and failed under extreme stress. The traditional stitch pattern does, in my opinion, leave a little room for improvement. So we wrapped it and bartacked it, which I think is better. Also, I have personally witnessed near fatalities, and seen plenty of video, of people’s pin cover flaps coming open. On some rigs, the closing system looks smooth and sexy but in many cases works like shit due to weak tabs and bad geometry. We made something that is really truly unlikely to open unexpectedly. Ours is not the only rig that has this feature, of course… but we like it and look forward to sharing it with those who are interested.

- The “marketing” that Fledgling refers to was describing some very minor tension-increasing pinches that help to seal the side flaps to airflow. Combined with the points described immediately above, it makes for a tight seal and it’s another detail that I am happy to have added to my personal equipment. I invite anyone else to please tell me if they smell bullshit marketing in any of our product descriptions, so that I may endeavor to explain. The Stronglite is not the only “longer” wingsuit container on the market. There are others. Choose one, if you want one.

Creating any product, whether it is new or special or not, can be a complex series of compromises. We want it to be better in some ways without making it worse in other ways. When I started this project a year ago I was certain that we were not going to use Type-8 in our harness. But in the end the market must dictate, at least in part, how it will be served, and in the end we opted for more conservative durability over mind-blowing lightness for this particular system. We are working on another ultralite rig that we probably will not sell, but which may be used by some jumpers on serious high-alpine projects in the future.

Some of the other people making BASE equipment have been doing it since before I had hair on my nutz. I’ve barely been jumping for 10 years, and Todd S., for instance, has been making gear for 20. We have a lot of respect for the people who have been responsible for the real and significant innovation in our sport over the past 20+ years. While “institutional inertia” (nod to Dexterbase) may be stirred up a bit by our arrival on the market, we do not in any way claim to be making stuff that is “better” than the leading gear out there. I want only to make things that contain details which are important to me and to our close friends who are out there pushing the envelope of our sport by flying new lines, or by flying conservatively in long safe careers. As with any industry or pursuit, everything that we have built has been made possible by those who came before us. We acknowledge that and only hope to play a small part in the improvement of our sport.

We care what most people (not everyone ;-)) in the BASE community thinks. If you want to give feedback or ask a question, the best way to get in touch with us is by email.

-Matt, & the Squirrel Team.

Seriously ya'll... don't freak out.

What's the weight difference between your container and others?

Thanks.

My statement about the lack of innovation was not intended for you but the person that created this thread titled "Innovative new rigs from Squirrel".

I would agree that wrapping the chest strap around the lift web is the best design but I think you may be putting too much faith in the bartack. Swing off that fucker enough and it will also come apart. (Also see my earlier post about having the junction easily visible for inspection if people do start rappelling from it a lot).

This is featured on many rigs that don't claim to have "3D Shaping". So I'm sticking with marketing on this one.
Hope you sell shit loads of them.

Bad thread title... What I should have said is.

Look! Squirrel BASE rigs... Don't freak out!